Prime Time #126: Vandal Reaction Poll

[ChaoSoldier1986]

DE has stated that the only way they can release Founder Vault is to have an Unanimous Yes from all Founders, that includes the Founders who no longer play. Honestly if DE knew how things would have turned out, they would have made Founder Vault Timed Exclusive just like every other Prime Access and people would be tossing him away for Umbra, but because of how things turned out people will clamor for the Forbidden Fruit until Warframe shuts down.

[Jaysus41]

20 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Unlikely to happen since they are money tied and if released can result a can of worms(lawsuits) DE rather avoid.

I wouldn't say it would never happen. I'm sure this CBT Vandal discussion is going to open the door to the possibility of a Founders gear discussion, just not in the public eye. Probably on the DC or in a thread restricted to everyone except Founders.

I would, of course, be voting YES.

 

[(PSN)appretice]

1 hour ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

DE has stated that the only way they can release Founder Vault is to have an Unanimous Yes from all Founders, that includes the Founders who no longer play. Honestly if DE knew how things would have turned out, they would have made Founder Vault Timed Exclusive just like every other Prime Access and people would be tossing him away for Umbra, but because of how things turned out people will clamor for the Forbidden Fruit until Warframe shuts down.

Which is completely asinine, because this is the Internet and people are greedy. And accounts that have gone over 6 months can be deleted at DE's discretion so I don't think ALL founders need apply, just those with an active account. Also I'm sure there will always be atleast one troll who will say no just to F*** with the community.

Edited July 20, 2016 by (PS4)appretice

[ChaoSoldier1986]

1 minute ago, (PS4)appretice said:

Which is completely asinine, because this is the Internet and people are greedy. And accounts that have gone over 6 months can be deleted at DE's digression so I don't think ALL founders need apply, just those with an active account. Also I'm sure there will always be atleast one troll who will say no just to F*** with the community.

Hey, I'm just as Salty about it as you are, proof is 5-10 pages back. I'm just going to have to deal with Reality one day at a time.

[Lanadra]

19 minutes ago, Jaysus41 said:

I wouldn't say it would never happen. I'm sure this CBT Vandal discussion is going to open the door to the possibility of a Founders gear discussion, just not in the public eye. Probably on the DC or in a thread restricted to everyone except Founders.

I would, of course, be voting YES.

 

You may want to alter that quote, I didn't say that, Fionntan did.

[Fionntan]

24 minutes ago, Jaysus41 said:

I wouldn't say it would never happen. I'm sure this CBT Vandal discussion is going to open the door to the possibility of a Founders gear discussion, just not in the public eye. Probably on the DC or in a thread restricted to everyone except Founders.

I would, of course, be voting YES.

If does follow more power to them, how the law sees it same way (doubt it).

Honestly, aside from Master xp I see nothing too big into missing out Founder Gear beside cosmetic looks....

Edited July 19, 2016 by Fionntan

[Ahcruna]

30 minutes ago, Jaysus41 said:

I wouldn't say it would never happen. I'm sure this CBT Vandal discussion is going to open the door to the possibility of a Founders gear discussion, just not in the public eye. Probably on the DC or in a thread restricted to everyone except Founders.

I would, of course, be voting YES.

 

Same here, I'm sick of this. I do hope they actually plan on doing a survey to all founders so that we can get ride of this.
but who am I kidding anyway, people will find something else to complain about.

the only thing that really hurts most people is the Mastery I'm guessing.
Excalibur Prime as an actual Prime is underwhelming, even Frost Prime which has been criticized for being lacking in the looks department looks way more stylish than ExP. putting on the Imortal skin on ExP makes him look like a normal one, that's how badly that frame is modeled anyway. (releasing it might give him an update without people complaining about it)

I see the release in a bright side though, we might finally get AkLato Prime and Dual Skana Prime!
we won't have to get annoyed at the fact that some of the people that handle the trailers at DE decide to add unobtainable gear in the videos
*MAJOR COUGH* Lato Prime, AkLato Prime, Dual Skana Prime and even the latest trailer with the Tennocon Syandana. (last one doesn't count, but stop doing that)

for serious though, quit it with that and um, well... at least we can wave our fingers at you people for putting in the Soma clip the wrong way ( never forget :p )
ah the lulz, the lulz~



___________________________________________________
There was a hole here, now it's gone. I guess...  (╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ahcruna

[DiBBz]

On 7/15/2016 at 1:42 AM, Venom-Snake said:

As someone who did not get both... I say no.

No, I believe they were gifts, should they ever need to return, maybe whent the game gets out of Beta?

nothing wrong with them returning however as others have said make it a login reward to signify dedication and commitment! 

they could also make skin for the braton vandel for those that owned it when they where available to signify that they got this in CBT etc!

[Epicagemo]

I feel like DE should only let the people with Braton/Lato Vandal vote, because the people who do want something they they can't have is making the poll skewed.

[BelovedLux]

Absolutely shouldn't bring back the Lato and Braton Vandal. Those were specifically given to those who participated in the beta (closed beta for the Lato) and should not be given out again as a re release or the items will lose their value. I do not own the weapons myself but, I can absolutely disagree with this idea to bring them back as i would feel bad for those who felt good when they could show off their exclusive weapons to friends. This is basically like releasing the TennoCon Sayndana to those who couldn't participate (myself included).

Edited July 20, 2016 by NoirXeon

[AuroraSonicBoom]

On 7/18/2016 at 11:27 PM, gunslinger20121 said:

They have publicly said on several devstreams that everything minus the founder stuff has a chance to come back. So no one can truly get mad at their so called "exclusives" being rereleased because they weren't really exclusive to begin with. You just had to be playing at the right time.

Pretty much, and you know, with Nef's rework coming sometime this year _maybe, they could tie the rewards in with a Corpus themed event. Then a year later, throw them into the sortie bin like they did with all the other wraiths and vandal's.

[Lanadra]

45 minutes ago, NoirXeon said:

This is basically like releasing the TennoCon Sayndana to those who couldn't participate (myself included).

No it really isn't at all.

That Syandana is a cosmetic piece, the two weapons being discussed are weapons, they're crap from what I hear, but they still account for 6k mastery, that alone is reason enough to bring them back, because that's mastery most of us cannot get now.

[Abufhad]

4 hours ago, Fionntan said:

Unlikely to happen since they are money tied

of course, I vote on return with money not free.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Abufhad

[keensight]

I would like to ask, how the conversation about Lato and Braton Vandal became a tremendous offtopic about the founders packs?
And I do not understand it yet, at what here the founders with their stuff?
Guys stop this mess. Pay your shattered attention to headline of topic,
focus your attention on it, and be so kind, stop this nonsense;.
This is applies to both: instigators and those, who were succumbed to provocation.
Reading unnecessary text can irritate those of us, who are not interested in a ton of worries, fears, wishes or thoughts about things, that are not related to the subject.
advance thnx.

Edited July 20, 2016 by keensight_JDS

[NrSpringfield]

8 minutes ago, keensight_JDS said:

I would like to ask, how the conversation about Lato and Braton Vandal became a tremendous offtopic about the founders packs?
And I do not understand it yet, at what here the founders with their stuff?
Guys stop this mess. Pay your shattered attention to headline of topic,
focus your attention on it, and be so kind, stop this nonsense;.
This is applies to both: instigators and those, who were succumbed to provocation.
Reading unnecessary text can irritate those of us, who are not interested in a ton of worries, fears, wishes or thoughts about things, that are not related to the subject.
advance thnx.

The reason that the Founders Program items keep coming into question, despite the poll and topic of discussion being the Lato and Braton Vandal, is because both CB and Founder items award Mastery Rank XP and are unobtainable (at the moment) to the majority of the player base.  The popular opinion appears to be that, while DE did not anticipate the game lasting this long, much less thriving, it was a bad move to tie mostly unobtainable gear towards game progression, especially now that Mastery Rank has a bigger influence on the game now.  Some folks also interpret this as a test case for how they should proceed to possibly release Excalibur, Lato, and Skana Prime in the future, and gauge what the reaction would be towards such a move.  [DE] Rebecca did state in the past that the Vandal series (at the time, being only the Braton and Lato Vandal) were "exclusive" and "lobbying is not encouraged" to have it reintroduced to the Open Beta players (see: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/38144-may-1st-hot-feedback-topics/), but since they've brought up this discussion, it's clear that they're willing to reel back on this.  It's now certainly plausible that they'd be willing to re-release the Founder items in the future.  It's unfortunate that this discussion irritates you and your feelings in some way, but it is a discussion that was bound to happen, especially if they'd be willing to do it for Closed Beta items, and it is one that people seem to be happy to talk about.

 

[keensight]

23 minutes ago, NrSpringfield said:

The reason that the Founders Program items keep coming into question, despite the poll and topic of discussion being the Lato and Braton Vandal, is because both CB and Founder items award Mastery Rank XP and are unobtainable (at the moment) to the majority of the player base.  The popular opinion appears to be that, while DE did not anticipate the game lasting this long, much less thriving, it was a bad move to tie mostly unobtainable gear towards game progression, especially now that Mastery Rank has a bigger influence on the game now.  Some folks also interpret this as a test case for how they should proceed to possibly release Excalibur, Lato, and Skana Prime in the future, and gauge what the reaction would be towards such a move.  [DE] Rebecca did state in the past that the Vandal series (at the time, being only the Braton and Lato Vandal) were "exclusive" and "lobbying is not encouraged" to have it reintroduced to the Open Beta players (see: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/38144-may-1st-hot-feedback-topics/), but since they've brought up this discussion, it's clear that they're willing to reel back on this.  It's now certainly plausible that they'd be willing to re-release the Founder items in the future.  It's unfortunate that this discussion irritates you and your feelings in some way, but it is a discussion that was bound to happen, especially if they'd be willing to do it for Closed Beta items, and it is one that people seem to be happy to talk about.

 

Thank you for clarifying the situation. I feel sorry for your wasted time. I am aware of all the aspects that cause off topic. Like many other players, I do not care about the fate of Ex, Scana and Lato Prime. Not cared more than three years ago, and do not care right now. I just asking stop discussing things, that people like me just are not interesting, especially as this things not directly related to topic of discussion .
The only thing that annoys me - a lot of the same type of unnecessary information, that I was forced to swallow by reading these 47 pages of discussion.

There really is no reason to talk about Founders Program items in this topic. And even if there is a reason, then talk about them here - is still not correct and courteous in respect to all readers >(
( In order to understand this, it is enough to make a small perceptual shift to person who wishing to enjoy a tasty meal, but instead this, against his will, ate a lot of styrofoam portions.)

[thundernoob]

Well i would love braton and lato vandal to return, mainly because i have the lato vandal and not the braton vandal (i was here but did not check the market... i think it was to test/open the market? anyway, my fault)

The idea on the beginning of the tread to offer it in connection reward is good for me, and if those who won the weapons at that time still don't want others to gain it... well how about buffing a bit the original weapon a tad, something we can feel but not that significant and rename it "ancient braton vandal" ?

or the contrary, nerf a bit the weapon that we would have ( *if* it' decided to be done, since it' sonly discussing for now) and rename it to help differenciate, like braton vandal legacy ... i don't know about matery point though, that would mean in those cases still a bonus of mastery for those who had it, which could be a good point for them i guess?

(oh and sorry if the second idea have alreaady been discussed, i read some pages but gonna be honnest, 45 pages is a bit much for now)

[K0bra]

1 minute ago, thundernoob said:

Well i would love braton and lato vandal to return, mainly because i have the lato vandal and not the braton vandal (i was here but did not check the market... i think it was to test/open the market? anyway, my fault)

The idea on the beginning of the tread to offer it in connection reward is good for me, and if those who won the weapons at that time still don't want others to gain it... well how about buffing a bit the original weapon a tad, something we can feel but not that significant and rename it "ancient braton vandal" ?

or the contrary, nerf a bit the weapon that we would have ( *if* it' decided to be done, since it' sonly discussing for now) and rename it to help differenciate, like braton vandal legacy ... i don't know about matery point though, that would mean in those cases still a bonus of mastery for those who had it, which could be a good point for them i guess?

(oh and sorry if the second idea have alreaady been discussed, i read some pages but gonna be honnest, 45 pages is a bit much for now)

When you rename it the problem still exists what Steve was talking about.Most of the owners was actually for a rerelease only a couple of them are against it.

I still think the CB players should get like the Founders a Closed Beta tester badge in their profile and a Badge for wearing ingame.

[NrSpringfield]

1 hour ago, keensight_JDS said:

Stop talking about the thing i don't like people talking about.  I know why people are talking about this thing, but I still don't like thing.  You forced me, held my head and made me read all 47 pages of people talking about the thing I want to read about and the thing I don't want to read about.

There really is no reason for you to talk about thing.  Even if there are multiple reasons of how the two things are related and how one could have an effect on the other, you should listen to me.
( In order to understand this, you talking about the thing I don't like, and my choosing to read it regardless, is akin to a person forcing another person to chew packing peanuts.)

Alright then, let's take a break from public discourse for a bit.

What are your thoughts about this poll then?  Are you pro-release or pro-exclusive?  Do you have any possible solutions that could make both parties in this matter satisfied?  Personally, I'm all for compensation via a sigil, a badge, or a syandana.  You know, as long as it's fashionable and fits with my Excal build

http://imgur.com/a/ThyhZ

[Lanadra]

2 hours ago, NrSpringfield said:

The reason that the Founders Program items keep coming into question, despite the poll and topic of discussion being the Lato and Braton Vandal, is because both CB and Founder items award Mastery Rank XP and are unobtainable (at the moment) to the majority of the player base.  The popular opinion appears to be that, while DE did not anticipate the game lasting this long, much less thriving, it was a bad move to tie mostly unobtainable gear towards game progression, especially now that Mastery Rank has a bigger influence on the game now.  Some folks also interpret this as a test case for how they should proceed to possibly release Excalibur, Lato, and Skana Prime in the future, and gauge what the reaction would be towards such a move.  [DE] Rebecca did state in the past that the Vandal series (at the time, being only the Braton and Lato Vandal) were "exclusive" and "lobbying is not encouraged" to have it reintroduced to the Open Beta players (see: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/38144-may-1st-hot-feedback-topics/), but since they've brought up this discussion, it's clear that they're willing to reel back on this.  It's now certainly plausible that they'd be willing to re-release the Founder items in the future.  It's unfortunate that this discussion irritates you and your feelings in some way, but it is a discussion that was bound to happen, especially if they'd be willing to do it for Closed Beta items, and it is one that people seem to be happy to talk about.

 

For me another reason is that this is a feedback topic made by DE themselves, they want to know what's said here and will read feedback in this topic, thus it's the most likely place to actually get feedback on Founder items also read, whereas the next ''generic 200th thousand topic about Excalibur Prime'' is more likely to get ignored.

I've also said before I really don't see the difference between the two, regardless of what some say, even Steve made passing mention of it being ''the big elephant in the room'' that they knew damn well is the real issue here.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[keensight]

2 hours ago, NrSpringfield said:

Alright then, let's take a break from public discourse for a bit.

What are your thoughts about this poll then?  Are you pro-release or pro-exclusive?  Do you have any possible solutions that could make both parties in this matter satisfied?  Personally, I'm all for compensation via a sigil, a badge, or a syandana.  You know, as long as it's fashionable and fits with my Excal build

http://imgur.com/a/ThyhZ

 

It was stupid, show your blinkered perception of what I was trying to say in the form of a literal citation of my message, replacing it with a completely different text. It is not polite. And rude. I recommend to remove the "quotation", which is not a quote, if it will not be very difficult to you.
 

Regarding the topics of discussion I spoke earlier. I do not mind Braton re-release. But I think that the CBT players deserve some kind of "reminder" or a special "distinction", that would be noticeable not only in cosmetics on players warframe, but also in CBT player's profile. I would like if Lato remained  as this "reminder". But if these two vandals are really inseparable so, then Im more inclined to the opinion of the majority.

[markus230]

13 hours ago, (PS4)appretice said:

Yes but the only thing I can see a judge ruling against DE for is the return of any moneys paid in the agreement of exclusivity to any individual who argues the case, which even if all the founders filled for a return, it still wouldn't make a scratch in how much money they are pulling.

They would still likey make a ton of money from the whole ordeal if they did, because they would have a huge burst of plat sales or prime access sales for Excal Prime.

Technically re-release of Founder gear may be a false-advertisment, but on the other hand Design Council is now accessible to normal players if they are active enough and that could be seen also as false-advertisment yet noone sued DE for that.

If Founders are against founder gear re-release they might fill a lawsuit against DE if their stuff gets released, but if most founders agree I doubt anyone is going to bother

[(XBOX)Skode]

IMO there's been issues with old exclusive content ever since ChinaFrame became a thing. They get access to everything - we never will, promises to founder and what have you. Hindsight would mean never making exclusive (unless timed) content which is tangible ingame which frames and weapons are... unlike cosmetics. People will always want Excal Prime... it's the upgrade to the most popular frame in the entire game after all. Sooner Umbra is released the sooner we can move on (though fans have been massive jerks to DE about that one too).

Again though that's different debate than the Vandal. Which has been owners not minding, a vocal minority of NON owners shouting nay to the idea and a poll which was never gonna be anything but a yes win cuz "free stuff". I think the real debate is now should they come available again based on feedback but HOW? That's the more heated debate likely. Log in reward seems to be the most accepted idea though, I wonder when it even if we will hear more from DE on this (before it becomes ever present dev stream question as Pandora's box has been opened now lol). Even Steve wants to bring them back.

[RextintorZ]

I'm OK with the Braton Vandal coming back for new and veteran players who never got a chance to have it. But I think the Lato Vandal should remain as an exclusive weapon for those that were there during the closed beta.

[GrayFox]

Exclusivity 
vs
Access

So far, those are the most prominent points I've been reading *whew this thread's getting long for 2 weapons - which by all means I understand since... you guys know, they're the Creme de la creme of Vandals I suppose"

6k mastery may not sound that much, but for people who're into getting the max rank possible (at the moment... or rather every moment they can or want to), it'll grind their gears to no end. 

From a personal stand point, I couldn't care less if either of the two gets released or not, I can deal with it, I don't have the Braton Vandal - because to put it quite simply, I wasn't there to get it. There were certain points where that last 3000 Mastery points were all I needed to achieve the max rank with certain updates but at the end of the day, I just had to deal with it and it's understandable.

(now people may get iffy with this statement but here goes...)

They're like the anniversary weapons to be honest.

1 - Dex Furis
2 - Dex Dakra
3 - Dex Furis, Dakra and Sybaris

For the people who weren't able to get the Dex Furis or Dakra, they had to wait until the 3rd anniversary to get them. And I find it really nice of DE to even include the previous ones. Again, they didn't have to do that, but they did.

And for people who were unlucky or weren't active/haven't played Warframe yet during the anniversaries to receive them, well, they simply don't have them.

I personally missed quite a handful of event weapons from taking a year or so off from Warframe, was irritated to a certain degree that I couldn't get MR 22, but the thing is, playing Warframe for 2+ years, majority of us already know that it's just a matter of time till updates give us the enough items to catch up.

case and point for this? Patience and understanding :D

(Founder's Exclusives are understandable, since it was a limited release people basically paid for and supported Warframe to grow - should the Founder's exclusives be made public, I believe DE would replace the items with something completely different ie: Excal Prime, Skana Prime, Lato Prime were included in the drop tables ala Prime Vault, Founders will have Pink Shorts Excal, Pink Shorts Skana and Pink Shorts Lato - can't think of a badass prefix so forgive me)

So for the first wave of Vandals (Braton and Lato), while I understand that it symbolizes that you were a CBT/OBT player from a certain period of time, that's basically the point, we were simply present at a certain period of Warframe's existence and nothing else. We didn't have to pay for it with money, the Braton Vandal was sold with a 1 credit price tag because they didn't have the mail system yet, and the Lato Vandal was simply given out for free. For these 2 weapons that we got basically for free, it's okay to let the other players have them. That's how I see it (and apparently quite a number of other people too :D)

With regards to "All hail Mastery Rank~"

- other than a pretty number for a Mastery Rank and the recent inclusion of Mastery Rank to our items' starting capacity, there's nothing really special about it
- some may say it's for their profile/codex/etc Let me ask you this: When playing a public session or even with your friends, do you even check their profiles? If you do and you saw this guy has this, oh he doesn't have that or whatever rocks your boat, you don't get anything at all anyway right? (might be a slight tap on the shoulder for one-upping them on your end, I don't know T.T)
- For something that most people just keep in their respective inventories with the intention to flaunt (or like having the option to do so), I find their opposition to the notion of bringing these back quite... odd.

(Come on people, let the other guys have their 6k mastery :D us old guys have been pampered and spoiled with free potatoes all year-round before these space-kids were even Tennos... they don't have thpse "Warframe's Back in My day...." moments... remember Eris ? :D)
.
On to discussing how they should be released/be acquired (oh boy...)

The Braton Vandal and the Lato Vandal were "CBT/OBT exclusives", back in 2013. I don't know how this should be implemented without stepping on anyone's proverbial toes, which quite frankly, is impossible.

• A certain criteria being met by players who do want it sounds fair for the most part, an Event for the said weapons would be more than welcomed (but the thing is, putting these as rewards behind a "challenging" event would only result the difficulty being lowered down as a result from constant feedback about "HOLY NANO SPORES THE EVENT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBRU!" would then spark another debate - there goes the spiral~)

 

• Should DE go for "Give players with X years activity/accounts made from X - Y in Warframe" (this could be an easy-fix for the people who were there but weren't able to acquire it or were months late, even a year late) it may make quite a number of players happy, but at the same time, both the extremes (old and new) would be left unsatisfied (the number of players not being the whole with respect to their ends of the spectrum)
   
• Should they be released for next year's anniversary? I wouldn't mind as well, but if they did, since it would be time-sensitive it goes with the same major stipulation that the CBT/OBT players had to experience - you simply had to be there, present at that time. Which for me, would be fair.
• I seriously wish DE the best of luck on how they would do this, IF they decide to do so.

I said the stuff above based on my player/customer experience, I do understand that the point of opening this for discussion is to get feedback on the subject, and if by some way, someone gets offended by this or I may have worded some stuff in a wrong way, give me a free pass will you? I don't intend to do so :D

I didn't love playing Warframe because of those 2 weapons, I supported Warframe because of what it was/is and the people behind it.