Prime Time #126: Vandal Reaction Poll

[BlackVortex]

1 minute ago, DogManDan said:

You realize I meant that statement very sarcastically right? I know how many times the promise/word has gone out the door this one though is pushing it a little far considering what else could come from this.

that's fine, I didn't attack you either way, just giving my 2 cents about the subject

[Evanescent]

2 hours ago, Noamuth said:

I'm sorry Scruggie, but....really?

CB weapons;

• Braton "Log in and buy it"  
• Lato; "Thanks for playing" *tosses weapon at you*

Events;

• Get 20 scans of Moonlight Threscone to create 1 antitoxin
• Kill 100 Eximus
• Kill 100 Brood Mothers
• Survive 30 minutes
• Scan 100 MOA's
• Get 500 points, etc.

Each event introduced more lore to the game as well as opened up more mission types.  How are those not milestones?

No idea, Noa. But apparently our effort and gametime put in is worth less....

[sorq]

On 15/07/2016 at 11:57 PM, Senketsu_ said:

see i started early after the game entered open beta, (late october if i remember) so i missed out on founders and CB stuff, yet im a vet who has been playing for a long time. wheres the recognition for those players? oh wait we didnt get any. i have 1000+ hours in this game like so many, ive spent quite a bit on this game, but i dont have any cool exclusives. But why do i still play, even though me and tons of other players who started mearly days after all of this dont have any recognition. Because we love the devs, we love the game. if anyone has gotten the "middle" finger its those players. exclusivity is stupid when its actual content rather then just cosmetic. and heres the thing, these items coming back wont change the memories YOU have with them. Those memories and what they mean to you, will always be exclusive to you. 

honestly i have heard MANY compromises about these exclusives that would make everyone happy, the only thing thats stopping them is selfishness. 

cosmetics can be as exclusive as they want. actual items, should never be.

Totally.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Evanescent said:

No idea, Noa. But apparently our effort and gametime put in is worth less....

That's not exactly comforting lol

[Evanescent]

Just now, Noamuth said:

That's not exactly comforting lol

Haha ikr.

If it were up to me I'd give the CB players an emblem and a sigil or a skin and redistribute them as a gift with a buff.

Like with a quest that introduces players to invasions and you find these in  cache hidden in the level after a supply ship crashes in. Would feel awesome af.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

Haha ikr.

If it were up to me I'd give the CB players an emblem and a sigil or a skin and redistribute them as a gift with a buff.

Like with a quest that introduces players to invasions and you find these in  cache hidden in the level after a supply ship crashes in. Would feel awesome af.

Having them as quest weapons would be nice.

As to compensation, ehh...yeah.  Give them a big shiny badge or Sigil or something.  

[Rhekemi]

4 hours ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

And that goes to my original Point. A Founder could have just paid $300 while I pay $1000 and I'll still be thought of as less of a Customer. So no matter what, the Founder while "Always" be cared about more than anyone else. DE doesnt care about Non-Founder PC Players, Xbox Players, or PS4 Players. They only people DE will bend over backwards for are Founders and/or Beta-Testers

No.

You are wrong. Steve clearly stated he's torn over how you, and those like you, feel. That you've contributed a lot, but cannot have Founders' packs or items. He, and DE, don't want to break that promise to those players.**

Founders paid $300 at a time when Digital Extremes, and Warframe, were on the brink of failure.

You paid $1000 at a time when DE and Warframe were not on the brink of such failure. 

DE doesn't think of you as a lesser customer, you think of yourself as a lesser customer based in large part by the way a fraction of the Founders group treated you, and it seems, the fact that you cannot obtain a the Founders' pack items.

I've only been playing Warframe since 2014 technically, and regularly since spring 2015. I have never paid a dime, because I do not have a disposable income. Money goes straight to a growing list of real life needs. I grind for everything I purchase just like the next player.

But I am not, nor will I ever be lesser than anyone in this community. Not you, not a GrandMaster Founder.

They are my equals and I'll treat them as such, with respect, until they prove that they don't deserve such respect.

I'm a non-founder PC player, but I know my own value as a human being, and as a player. 

DE staff is swift with responses to my tickets. I'm a Design Council member (I was invited by DE Staff). I've PMd DE staff members on various occasions to ask for assistance, to file a complaint, to make suggestions. 

Way back when I was around MR8 (or MR10?), and in my clan, we'd spent the hefty platinum price to change our clan name. The plat came straight out of our grind money. We didn't see the typo, and we'd have to spend the plat again just to correct it.

When I contacted Rebecca via PM on the forum, she offered to change it for free. She didn't know me from a hole in the ground, mate.

I was a player who needed help, she offered it, at no cost.

In the end I only declined because to change it, she needed to know what our final name choice was and we couldn't decide at that time.

We ended up spending our own plat to fix the problem (and change our name again completely), because we couldn't come to a consensus on the name (we're all from different time zones, etc).

I'd advise you to stop making accusations about people's motivations, especially when you're wrong.

4 hours ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

And you actually believe that? This poll was nothing more than baiting people like me only to take it away again.

A majority of us believe it. Me included. I do believe Steve, and the staff, care about the player base. Without us (and I'm not counting the Founders just to make a point), there is no game.

A player base keeps a game alive. We are the blood that pumps through this game's veins, and we always will be. Without us, there is no game.

4 hours ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Only certain people's feedback. People like me have to endure what basically amounts to standing in line at the DMV to get anything resolved, whereas Masters and Grand Masters can talk directly to the Devs.

As noted, everyone can talk to the devs. You can even grab a free Twitter account and talk directly to Steve during big updates. Stop limiting yourself, thinking yourself lesser than you are.

Respect others, respect yourself, and people will respect you back. 

4 hours ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Because they are not going to. They have no intention of "EVER" addressing our woes. This is nothing more then them drinking our tears for not having exclusives. Even if Rebecca says she'll put a Giant Gold Lotus Statue on my Lawn I will still have complete suspicion of it until it actually is followed through. I dont trust anyone that only helps me for my money.

They never said they were giving the players the Vandal items. If you'll watch the clip again, they make it very clear they're opening the topic up to hear our opinions on it (and Steve mentioned wanting to get the opinions of Vandal owners specifically, a point another poster tried to make to me earlier that I overlooked), but that it wasn't a guarantee or promise of anything.

What I think this poll shows is that they need to sit down and think of a way to address this issue, not straight up hand out the Vandal variants. 

There are actually some very decent ideas within this thread on ways to possibly do that.

1 hour ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Oh come off it, He doesnt mean a single thing about that. Him and all the other founders revel in our Misery while they prance around us in their Special Snowflake Armor.

If you'll turn down your cynicism for just a moment, you'll see you can't possibly know the motivations, or mind, of other people--especially when the behavior they've shown you is the complete opposite of what you're accusing them of.

Can you acknowledge others as people? And that more often than not, people are honest about their intentions?

I acknowledge you as a person. I acknowledge that you are bitter and cynical due to your treatment from a fraction of people in the game, or online games in general, or due to not having the chance to receive items you feel you should have. I do this based on your posts, not on some knowledge of your mind I don't (and cannot) have.

That you don't trust anything DE says until they acquiesce on the matters and give you what you want/believe should be yours ignores how difficult it is to actually do what you want them to do or that it would break a promise to other players who will then be just as cynical and bitter as you may be now.

That's okay with you so long as you can obtain the items? You're okay with DE doing exactly what you are accusing them of? Being untrustworthy?

It isn't as simple as giving you the items.

** To no one in particular, the idea that DE went back on their word before doesn't mean all promises are then null and void. To those who keep saying "but they broke X promise", stop bandying about that notion. In life, when you all fail to uphold a promise, or several, you just stop upholding all of them henceforth? That's just not true.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Rhekemi
Changed "donated" to paid. Was a typo.

[Ghostar]

Hmmm, Well I certainly don't own either of those weapons (Or Skana/Lato prime), that said... I honestly feel like this poll is a bad idea.Think about it from a statistical perspective, the polls is by all means bad. Look at the number of players from the beginning of the games life (when the items were released), now the number of players here now. There's an unthinkable gap between the two. The people that are actually affected by this (The one's who got the vandals in the first place) don't really have equal footing for this kind of poll, they are out numbered greatly by the other party (the ones without the weapons). I'm all for healthy debate about re-releasing them or not doing so, but if there is one thing all my years have taught me, it's that people like pictures. Sure, a poll seems nice and looks good when going over the data, but you have to take into consideration the data itself is kinda skewed. It's like if one person earned $1 by working somewhere and 50 other people earned 50 cents. The boss puts out a poll saying "who thinks they should get the extra 50 cents?", not saying that everyone didn't work equally hard, but the data that the poll is going to show WILL be in favor of the majority. Not really contributing with much in all this, just pointing out a flaw in the poll itself.

Now as for the weapons re-release, I'm mixed on it. On the one hand, exclusivity (as much as people hate it and complain about it) is good for some things. People will often go back to a game to show off cool things that only they have, and showing off to their friends. Meaning not only will DE get money from said person, but their friends might join in playing too, which nets them more money. You can complain about it not being fair that you couldn't get it, but lets be honest, the world isn't fair, and it's not DEs job to make it fair. Someone will always have something you want, it's just human nature. HOWEVER, on the other hand, re-releasing the weapons will drive away people that are angry that they can no longer be "Special" for having the items, but it will also encourage others to play more to get said items, and possibly cause them to invite friends to play so they can have "super cool" items like that. So really it's a bit of a mixed bag. No matter how you slice it, the majority want it so it makes more sense from a business standpoint to give what the majority want, but in doing so, you could hurt your reputation. It's a tough situation for sure, and to be perfectly honest I feel this was a can of worms that didn't need to be opened.

 

THAT SAID... If you wanna add a cooler version of the vandal items as skins, while the rest of the people get normal versions.... well that does seem like a nice middle ground. The mass would get their mastery points, and the special snowflakes would get cool, newer versions of the same weapon as a skin. (they could also probably use them on all versions of braton/lato meaning you would see them show up more.) It's a neat idea, the same could be done with founders I feel... to a degree, people would get really angry if an "Excalibur Prime super special skin" was given that looks WAY cooler then normal excalibur prime. Just my  3 cents.

[Rehtael7]

44 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

No.

You are wrong. -snip-

PREACH BROTHER, PREACH! \o/

[CrudShuzKong]

7 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

And you're right, CB wasn't an event. It was a time period. Imo if anyone should be get compensation due to a returning item it's the people who put work into an event, rather than simply logging in at a certain point in time. Just my opinion of course.

Of course Events are more "work" than normal play now... But back in CB the game was pretty bad, and the whole community was working together to slowly build the foundation for what is now my favorite game to play. As a 1st day open beta player even i was hard pressed to support the game, because it wasnt fun enough for me back then. Every single player logging on and playing CB was an assset to DE and I definitely understand that deserving a reward.

[CrudShuzKong]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

No idea, Noa. But apparently our effort and gametime put in is worth less....

Yes it is! Not becasue you as a player are valued any diferent, but because the closed beta is a critical phase in game developement, and every single player that plays the game adds to the nescessary testing enviromnent. The game was pretty tedious to play back then but all the people putting up with it, helped immensely to make the game better (yes even just by logging on).

The decision to make it guns was a bad one, but a reward should be given.

Edited July 17, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[CrudShuzKong]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

-snip-

That guy has been spewing his rhetoric all over this thread before and got purged traceless by the mods because all of it was toxic... He even went around attackign valuable community mambers and accusing them of being cancer to the community...

I would really love it when people would actually appreciate each other and the work they put into this game, there is nothing wrong with questioning the system in place, but theres a way to do that nicely.

So thanks for takign the time to tell him off like a boss

I would like to have those 2 Vandals, but if a i cant, i cant, and i wouldnt be butthurt about it. I will never have founder stuff and im ok with that, because i decided against buying founder access.

[MagPrime]

14 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Yes it is! Not becasue you as a player are valued any diferent, but because the closed beta is a critical phase in game developement, and every single player that plays the game adds to the nescessary testing enviromnent. The game was pretty tedious to play back then but all the people putting up with it, helped immensely to make the game better (yes even just by logging on).

The decision to make it guns was a bad one, but a reward should be given.

I agree that an award should be given, I've been a CBT and that's not easy. XD  But, that comment stemmed from an argument that basically said event weapons were earned just by logging in and took no work to obtain. 

To be clear; a reward should be given for the hard work of the CBT's. I personally wouldn't care that it was guns, I'd much rather DE kept their word and left these weapons exclusive to the CBT's but for me, the issue lies with the affinity that players are missing out on.  (yes yes, it's not that much and we can obtain highest MR without it, but gaining MR isn't really the point.)  I'd like to have the affinity distributed to players via a quest or MR bonus or put into the Star Chart completion bonus even, but only for weapons that DE will never bring back.  i.e., the Founders gear.  

 

[CrudShuzKong]

5 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

I'd like to have the affinity distributed to players via a quest or MR bonus or put into the Star Chart completion bonus even, but only for weapons that DE will never bring back.  i.e., the Founders gear.

Thats actually not a bad idea. I actually dont mind that little bit of mastery i'm missing out on either, since mastery ranks above 16 are more or less pointless, I'm just a collector trying to complete it all, so I am fine with unobtainable stuff, since it just isnt part of the collection to me .

[IronWolfSaber]

As one of the founders I will say this.

DE can always offer the items I exclusively have. They will NEVER be able to take my feelings and my knowledge that I helped this game at a very bleak critical time in the company. There is simply no way for them to do so. Letting other players have what I have in-game I can feel is another way for DE to say TY community. 

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-story-of-warframe-how-a-game-no-publisher-wanted-found-26-million-players/?utm_content=buffer9ed8d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

 

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by IronWolfSaber

[C_L0cke]

I'd love to see the Lato Vandal back (I don't really have much of an opinion on the Braton Vandal).  The purpose isn't for bragging rights or Mastery... I just really really want to see a medum clip semiauto pistol type weapon worth using in mid-late game.  Basic lato just doesn't cut it without far too many forma.

[DJDoctorWhooves]

5 hours ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

And that goes to my original Point. A Founder could have just paid $300 while I pay $1000 and I'll still be thought of as less of a Customer. So no matter what, the Founder while "Always" be cared about more than anyone else. DE doesnt care about Non-Founder PC Players, Xbox Players, or PS4 Players. They only people DE will bend over backwards for are Founders and/or Beta-Testers

Your argument would only be valid if they decided to keep giving founders exclusives. Besides, it's not like DE gave us special treatment over normal players, they only rewarded us for helping them. So it's a little disheartening to see such a large part of the community act like we founders get this treatment. 
I just want to post this below as an inquiry to you and as a blanket statement.
1. We donated to help save DE when they needed it and were close to collapse. I, in fact, never cared about the rewards. I just enjoyed the game, saw potential in it, and wanted to see it grow. I am very proud of how the game has turned out.
2. When have we been given special treatment over you? Anyone can be a part of a design council arguement if they are a civil and respectable member of the forums, offering constructive and helpful advice.
3. Money is irrelevant. Just because someone rich begins making large purchases in a game after it has become stable does not entitle them to anything. Why does the amount of money you choose to spend make you entitled to being treated like a founder? The founders earned their title because they helped in a time of need, not because they just spent money.

[Roachester]

10 minutes ago, C_L0cke said:

I'd love to see the Lato Vandal back (I don't really have much of an opinion on the Braton Vandal).  The purpose isn't for bragging rights or Mastery... I just really really want to see a medum clip semiauto pistol type weapon worth using in mid-late game.  Basic lato just doesn't cut it without far too many forma.

The Vandal ain't much better than the original. Trust me.

[Evanescent]

2 hours ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Yes it is! Not becasue you as a player are valued any diferent, but because the closed beta is a critical phase in game developement, and every single player that plays the game adds to the nescessary testing enviromnent. The game was pretty tedious to play back then but all the people putting up with it, helped immensely to make the game better (yes even just by logging on).

The decision to make it guns was a bad one, but a reward should be given.

So I'm asking you why that mistake cannot be rectified by giving you a snazzy new skin for them and giving the guns to everyone else.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Evanescent

[CrudShuzKong]

14 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

So I'm asking you why that mistake cannot be rectified by giving you a snazzy new skin for them and giving the guns to everyone else.

It definitely can, but creating those skins would take time, without any kind of payout for the devs. It would still make some of our less grown up community members stinky and cause an uproar by vocal minorities (as everything does).

But yeah, that is a great solution. I do not object at all.

Of course they could give those players rejected Tennogen skins or something in that line, but that would require the artists to agree to not being paid for their work.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

9 hours ago, syni said:

You could have "earned" it back then.

"Just can't wait for your Beta Key invite? Cut the line by purchasing a
Founders Package and get instant access to the Closed Beta."

Wait a sec, founders and CB were around at the same time?

so while one group were supporting with cash, lots of others just logged in for free stuff and are now getting precious about it? Seriously? Smh

[ligonare]

The issue is the term 'exclusive'

From what I can tell, there are 2 types of exclusivity: Time exclusive and Status exclusive

Most of the prime accessories, event weapons have already shown to be time exclusive. These items do not really contravene the term 'exclusive' but it does come with a bit of salt from the original owners. But do keep note that the original owners do have a bit more flexibility and benefits towards the acquisition of said gear. The ones that came later needs to sacrifice a bit more for said items, but i believe most find this hurdle acceptable in order to get a shot at said items. Braton Vandal may very well fall under said catagory.

Status exclusives are trickier to handle. These are items given to people for said contributions during important milestones of the game's development. Founder items and the CBT fall under this catagory. This would mean that there should be no right for anyone to undermine their said contributions. The lato vandal falls in this catagory: technically only the CBT should have a say on its fate, as does any status items owner should have over their inventory.

Should they come back? I voted yes previously, citing hefty compensation to CBTs. After reading all the arguments though, I honestly cannot say for the lato vandal. It is the legacy of the CBTs and it is up to their privy discussion to decide its fate.

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by ligonare

[markus230]

@LordOfScrugging Time played reward is not a bad idea. Simple fix to give us something in return for 2 rewards that we loose would be a simple script launched before re-release of Braton and Lato Vandal

Barton Vandal = Sigil/Syadana

Lato Vandal = Sigil/Syadana

Everyone wins, I think

[Hazzlenut]

I bet no1 uses these guns anyway and they are rotting away in someones inventory never to be equipped and showed. So yeah bring them back.

 

[Hammer_of_Sol]

On ‎2016‎年‎7‎月‎15‎日 at 3:33 PM, WaRsHooTer666 said:

define "old"

like close beta or early open beta