Fusion Simplified: Part 1

[Senoinya]

Kinda worried about this, not gonna lie. Relics were supposed to be a simplification of the void, but it's actually more confusing for players than the old system was, on top of being a straight-up nerf. Now it's even worse odds to get the key/relic you need, and now that void survivals/defenses/etc are done away with and you only get one drop per mission, you need to farm one key for every single part, rather than farming up one defense, survival, or interception and getting tons from just one key. With the addition of the fact that now a 4-player key-share lets you choose one item from four rewards, compared to before where you'd have gotten all four of those rewards. The only thing I can confidently say was an improvement is that I don't have to fall asleep playing void defense to wave 60-100 anymore.

So is this actually a simplification, or just another over-complication + nerf? I want to be optimistic about this, I really do, but the whole void rework has made that difficult. Do we really even need a simplification of mod fusion? Honestly, it's pretty simple once you know how it works. You have a mod you want to rank up, so you get fusion cores, and then you use fusion cores on the mod you want to rank up. If you don't have cores but you want to rank something up, use duplicates, and if the duplicate has a matching polarity, you get more points out of it, same goes for if the mod you're using to rank it up has a higher rank. Ranking up costs credits unless you use a legendary core, which ranks a mod up to max rank instantly. Seems very easy to understand to me, and I'm by no means some kind of genius. All it really needs is a tutorial to make this clear to players from the start.

So what exactly is being simplified? From the sounds of it, Endo isn't even necessary, as you could just have fusion cores start dropping from enemies and replace the rank-up bar with a number instead that makes things more clear. Given how simple the fusion system is, I don't see how much more simple it can become, but I can definitely see how it could be more needlessly complicated, which seems to be a thing with Warframe lately. When there's a problem that could be fixed with some simple, well-placed adjustments, it gets a total rework instead that throws everything out and brings in a whole new system that brings even worse problems than the ones it was trying to fix, then we hear claims that it's supposed to simplify things when it's actually doing the exact opposite, and then the justification for all that is lore. Unfortunately, when Warframes need reworks to such degrees, they get very minor adjustments, or just straight-up nerfs they didn't need (I'm looking at you, Nekros.).

I suppose I'll wait until this comes out before I throw my doomsday signals up, but I will admit that I am feeling very concerned about this and I hope more details are shared soon.

[Dearphain]

Oh god, please no...

I love the fusion core system. It's well made, the UI is nice and the system is solid. It's intricate, yet user-friendly. It has secrets that I did not know of until this post (the polarities affecting the given fusion power) and that is a GOOD thing.

Over-simplified systems are lame. I like how it is, balancing which fusion cores to use and which to use because I want to hoard the gold ones yet don't want to expend too much credits. I like how I can just throw in some mod duplicates to rank up a common mod.

The system is solid.

Just like the Relic system and adding the Void to the Star-map making the Void lose it's charm, this feels like it's going to kill the charm of modding as well.

This system is not over-complicated.

Please re-think this decision. (Though I know that's not gonna happen since it's already been announced and everything...)

[GStonez]

Looking forward to this

[PHW0AR]

DE please don't take this the wrong way but with the issues with the number of Relics some people got please explain the conversion rules for FCores per Type/Rank > Endo 'points' (or whatever it is) and give players enough notice so they can do their own math.

Or will the conversion use the same 'Mod Energy' as the FCores do now:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion

Core Energy	Rank
	0	1	2	3	4	5
Common	4	6.6	9.2	11.8
Uncommon	8	14	20	26	32	38
Rare	12	22	32	42	52	62

So if I had 500 Rare R5 cores (62 EP each) and 100 Uncommon R3 cores (26 EP each) and 54 Common R1 Cores (356 EP each) I would get: 33,956 Endo Points  [31,000 (500*62) + 2,600 (100*26) + 356 (54*6.6) {rounded}]

[ScorpyX]

Fusion system should be changed - i like Endo ideas

but i also hope someday my "inventory hits" Search bar.. at least..

Edited August 17, 2016 by ScorpyX

[Guest GorgonTheHeroine]

Didn't know that I could receive fusion boosts, by using similar mod type or polarity. Nice bit of info, there. I don't find the current mod fusion, confusing. Just, lacking in explanation.

Quite interested in the new endo system, but I hope it doesn't take 5 hotfixes to make the system run smoothly. *wink, wink*



 

[NinjaKitsune56]

On 8/15/2016 at 10:25 AM, DeMonkey said:

Is that an Orokin pokeball?

Looks like it... named using a shorthand for endoskeleton, too.

[RagnaEternalCurse]

Mmmm, so what about legendary cores?  How exactly are you converting those? Cause as far as I know they have no specific value, they just max whatever they are used on? So do we get unlimited endo? For them? Or what?

Edited August 17, 2016 by RagnaEternalCurse
Missed a word

[DEVASTATOR_1]

1 question...and what happend the legendary core???

[PHW0AR]

I could see either LCores being replaced with Legendary Endo providing the exact amount of Endo Points needed.

Or they leave LCores as they are for the visual and OHHHHH appeal and they function in the same way.

[BulletsforTeeth]

On 8/15/2016 at 10:38 AM, KIREEK said:

Can't wait for my stack of cores to be converted.

You are either the most dedicated nolifer I have ever seen (no offense intended), or you discovered Egat and such back in the days of pull mag. I could be wrong, but holy jesus giblets those numbers >.>

[Zabers]

So, how about legendary cores? what'll happen to them?

quote me on reply boi ;)

Legendary Endo? AHAHAHHA

Edited August 17, 2016 by Zabers
Ah, looks like some ppl already asked xD

[Ketec]

I just hope they wont change farming into some weird time consuming superRNG

[HalfDarkShadow]

On 8/15/2016 at 10:40 AM, SquireAngel said:

I suppose this is the ENDO of fusion cores? eh? ehhhhh? EH? EHHHHHHHH?!?!

 

Anyways, a bit late to the party, but can't wait for the changes! Despite not having any fusion cores due to massive leveling the other week.

Edited August 17, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow

[Matt89Connor]

On 15/8/2016 at 4:25 PM, DeMonkey said:

Is that an Orokin pokeball?

yes XD there's granfather Vor inside  XD.

jokes aside, this Endo is a good idea

[(PSN)zuhaib9]

This is going to be really useful.

[AzureTerra]

I very much don't trust this. Given the mess Keys to Relics was.

[Zabers]

8 hours ago, Dearphain said:

Oh god, please no...

I love the fusion core system. It's well made, the UI is nice and the system is solid. It's intricate, yet user-friendly. It has secrets that I did not know of until this post (the polarities affecting the given fusion power) and that is a GOOD thing.

Over-simplified systems are lame. I like how it is, balancing which fusion cores to use and which to use because I want to hoard the gold ones yet don't want to expend too much credits. I like how I can just throw in some mod duplicates to rank up a common mod.

The system is solid.

Just like the Relic system and adding the Void to the Star-map making the Void lose it's charm, this feels like it's going to kill the charm of modding as well.

This system is not over-complicated.

Please re-think this decision. (Though I know that's not gonna happen since it's already been announced and everything...)

 

27 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

I very much don't trust this. Given the mess Keys to Relics was.

true

[Chushingura]

On 15/8/2016 at 5:24 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The following Dev Workshop will go into the simplification of the Fusion System. Read on to learn more about the coming changes and learn about 'ENDO'! As always, all information here is subject to rapid change. Stay updated by checking this thread!

Fusion in Warframe is one of the main systems that encourages investment in your Mod collection and Upgrading your gear. With calculated clicking and collecting, you can take your unranked Mods to top tier performers.

Right now our Fusion system has some confusing elements we’d like to correct.

1) Hidden complexity. There are a lot of under the hood ways to optimize fusion that aren't explained. Aside from the single usage of Fusion Cores, your Duplicate Mod collection can be used to fuse with bonuses for things like matching type, polarities, avoidance of exceeding desired rank, etc.
2) Progress Bar guessing game. There are no clear goals for next Fusion levels, all you're presented with is a bar and it's quite hard to predict how many missions and fuseable items are needed to advance ranks. This leads to a disconnect between cost benefit analysis as no cost presents itself.

It boils down to an overly complex system that has unclear goalposts, and this is something we want to fix.

The coming Fusion simplification will be released in 2 phases:

1) The first phase (coming in August)  maintains the core loop we all know (find Fusion energy and use to rank up Mods), but it's much simpler at the Fusion level.
2) The second (coming later) will be written about in detail once we have assets to share, but essentially it is a more lore-amplifying and collection building version of Fusion.

Diving deep into the quickly approaching first phase introduces us to Endo!

What is Endo? Endo is Fusion energy incarnate. It is the raw resource that powers the process of Upgrading Mods. In essence, Endo serves as the simplifier in all things Fusion. All duplicate Mods can now be simply converted into Endo. Endo will now drop from enemies and missions where Fusion Cores used to.

Fusing with Endo makes the Mod Rank increases clear, as the system now only increases in whole Ranks. Partial upgrading with unclear requirements towards your next rank will no longer exist, and neither will wasted Fusion energy. The UI will tell you exactly how much Endo is needed for the next Rank, which gives you a clear goal to work toward.

Any partial upgrades will be refunded with equivalent Endo - so if you're like me and just haven't fully maxed that Primed Mod yet, your partial fusion won't be wasted. This also means no Fusion energy will be wasted when your Mod is fully maxed. No more eyeballing what Mods or Cores you use to prevent yourself from accidentally using extra.

You can expect this first phase to come in August on PC, and your inventory of Cores will be converted on login! We'll have more information for you closer to launch so you can see the change in action and know what to expect when it hits your inventories.

Orokinmon!

[Demogarose]

If this works how I think its going to, this is a very nice change.

[KIREEK]

6 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

You are either the most dedicated nolifer I have ever seen (no offense intended), or you discovered Egat and such back in the days of pull mag. I could be wrong, but holy jesus giblets those numbers >.>

Dedicated yes.

I did use viver, egate, earth escavations and so on to gather mods used on fusion, that helped.

Altough the fusion cores are getting out of hand because i get them essentially in all the missions i do.

Edited August 17, 2016 by KIREEK

[Shileds]

On 8/15/2016 at 5:24 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The following Dev Workshop will go into the simplification of the Fusion System. Read on to learn more about the coming changes and learn about 'ENDO'! As always, all information here is subject to rapid change. Stay updated by checking this thread!

Fusion in Warframe is one of the main systems that encourages investment in your Mod collection and Upgrading your gear. With calculated clicking and collecting, you can take your unranked Mods to top tier performers.

Right now our Fusion system has some confusing elements we’d like to correct.

1) Hidden complexity. There are a lot of under the hood ways to optimize fusion that aren't explained. Aside from the single usage of Fusion Cores, your Duplicate Mod collection can be used to fuse with bonuses for things like matching type, polarities, avoidance of exceeding desired rank, etc.
2) Progress Bar guessing game. There are no clear goals for next Fusion levels, all you're presented with is a bar and it's quite hard to predict how many missions and fuseable items are needed to advance ranks. This leads to a disconnect between cost benefit analysis as no cost presents itself.

It boils down to an overly complex system that has unclear goalposts, and this is something we want to fix.

The coming Fusion simplification will be released in 2 phases:

1) The first phase (coming in August)  maintains the core loop we all know (find Fusion energy and use to rank up Mods), but it's much simpler at the Fusion level.
2) The second (coming later) will be written about in detail once we have assets to share, but essentially it is a more lore-amplifying and collection building version of Fusion.

Diving deep into the quickly approaching first phase introduces us to Endo!

What is Endo? Endo is Fusion energy incarnate. It is the raw resource that powers the process of Upgrading Mods. In essence, Endo serves as the simplifier in all things Fusion. All duplicate Mods can now be simply converted into Endo. Endo will now drop from enemies and missions where Fusion Cores used to.

Fusing with Endo makes the Mod Rank increases clear, as the system now only increases in whole Ranks. Partial upgrading with unclear requirements towards your next rank will no longer exist, and neither will wasted Fusion energy. The UI will tell you exactly how much Endo is needed for the next Rank, which gives you a clear goal to work toward.

Any partial upgrades will be refunded with equivalent Endo - so if you're like me and just haven't fully maxed that Primed Mod yet, your partial fusion won't be wasted. This also means no Fusion energy will be wasted when your Mod is fully maxed. No more eyeballing what Mods or Cores you use to prevent yourself from accidentally using extra.

You can expect this first phase to come in August on PC, and your inventory of Cores will be converted on login! We'll have more information for you closer to launch so you can see the change in action and know what to expect when it hits your inventories.

This looks like the slot machine in King Of Thieves

[ElocFreidon]

Changing a system that converts numbers is a pretty good way to secretly nerf things. Will it require more endo to rank up mods? Will we get less overall endo compared to fusion cores? Most likely.

Keys to relic didn't reduce farming but added another layer of farming. Will we not get 62 endo (fusion power orginal) for every original full ranked rare fusion core drop?

[Gretek]

One question, What about my Ancient Fusion Core?

[DragonRiderX98]

On 2016-08-15 at 4:25 PM, DeMonkey said:

Is that an Orokin pokeball?

*Inspecting it closer* OMG, you're right! Haha It does look like a pokeball! x,D 

Maybe the Orokin used these to catch Kubrows in the ancient times? Guess we'll never know...