Don't touch Nullifiers

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Just now, Sigmas71 said:

With any spammable weapon? By pressing ctrl+e? Also, vauban doesn't have any active abilities or buffs that i can recall. 

In case you haven't noticed yet, nobody cares if nullis are easy or hard to deal with. This discussion should be about game balance, and how to adequately reward players' skills and choices. Not a stupid epeen contest.

I'd laugh at you just as hard, but people like you and your pointless responses are the oldest joke on this forum 

What's considered a "spammy" weapon?

Oh you mean something like the Synoid Simulor?


I hate that weapon, I hate it with a passion, and refuse to ever use it out of spite.

[Vyra]

2 hours ago, Trichouette said:

What is so complicated to understand in "I don't want the game to force me into a gameplay I don't like" ?

I DON'T want to play with high RoF weapons, most of the ones I have (even secondaries) aren't forma-ed simply because I don't like playing with them.

And even though, the weapon switching time is awfully long.

of course you want to change thegame for everyone else...

i want legendary cores without farming for them.. please give me...
"I don't want the game to force me into a gameplay I don't like"

now give me my legendary core

[Vyra]

2 hours ago, Trichouette said:

First, I don't understand anything...

Second, I don't give a damn about sentients, my tigris deal enough to OS them most of the time, and when it doesn't, the next 2 shot will do the trick.

And third, my secondary DOESN'T have a high RoF as I said because I DESPISE these weapons. So yes I have two weapons (even 3) but I don't pick weapons I don't want to use/like, and I don't want some stupid unit to force me to use them.

even with my vectis i can burn down nullifier shields easily... even tonkor... wtf gun you are using?

[Sigmas71]

50 minutes ago, Marthrym said:

+1.

the sad part is that this has been said so many times. And nothing has been done. The sadness mate, the sadness...

Indeed it is sad. Specially knowing so many that have actually quit warframe on account of the game remaining a cheesefest for too long. When the devs started reworking 4-to-win, but the enemy's cheese remained unchanged, it was the last straw for a lot of players. 

Best we can do right now is keep sending our messege to the devs. DErebecca seems to get it, sort of. 

I really, really hope the devs read these threads from the beginning, however grueling that experience may be. So much pointless crap gets thrown around in nulli threads its hard to imagine anyone finding the feedback unless they're paying close attention. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

It's a miracle this thread hasn't been locked yet.

nullies need removing, simple as that.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

I'll tell you guys again,

Nullifiers are nothing compared to scrambus/comba & grineer drones. Nullifiers are slow, weak, we can see them coming from a mile away, you cant miss that giant glowy bubble. But some Scrambus/comba can disable abilities & we cant see where they are coming from in a hectic place, even if we can hear their signature sound when they are nearby. Grineer drones are just as bad, bcos theyre small & move eratically fast. 

So your complaints about nulli are pretty much invalid.

[Tsunero]

It's time to nerf Nullifiers if not outright removing them.

[Beggining]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

So your complaints about nulli are pretty much invalid.

I guess you can say that...their arguments have been nullified?

Huehuehuehue

But seriously, Scrambus and Combas have less of a spawn rate than Nullifiers. As of right now, Nullifiers spawn too much and stack too often that it becomes too annoying (and DE buffed that spawn rate too >.>)

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

2 minutes ago, Beggining said:

I guess you can say that...their arguments have been nullified?

Huehuehuehue

But seriously, Scrambus and Combas have less of a spawn rate than Nullifiers. As of right now, Nullifiers spawn too much and stack too often that it becomes too annoying (and DE buffed that spawn rate too >.>)

NICE ONE !

Well, scrambus & comba are already dangerous even if there are just a couple unit spawned, plus its not guaranteed they'll go down in 1 shot. Im pretty sure that if nulli got replaced by scrambus & comba with the same spawn rate, then the salt will be even more than this.

[Beggining]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

NICE ONE !

Well, scrambus & comba are already dangerous even if there are just a couple unit spawned, plus its not guaranteed they'll go down in 1 shot. Im pretty sure that if nulli got replaced by scrambus & comba with the same spawn rate, then the salt will be even more than this.

Which is why most recommend Nullifiers to have lower spawn rates (and I'm pretty sure those who wants to replace Nulls with Combas and Scrambus also wanted a lower spawn rates - it's just ridiculous how often Nullifiers can spawn)

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

3 minutes ago, Beggining said:

Which is why most recommend Nullifiers to have lower spawn rates (and I'm pretty sure those who wants to replace Nulls with Combas and Scrambus also wanted a lower spawn rates - it's just ridiculous how often Nullifiers can spawn)

But spawn rates (especially in survival/def) will eventually climb to a moment where we wont be fast enough to dispatch one nulli while another one spawn, and then more spawn, and more, and more...and finally were back to the first page of this thread.

Edited August 20, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Beggining]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

But spawn rates (especially in survival/def) will eventually climb to a moment where we wont be fast enough to dispatch one nulli while another one spawn, and then more spawn, and more, and more...and finally were back to the first page of this thread.

I don't really do long survival or defense to argue further about this, sorry XD (although survival might mitigate this since the objective recommend killing constantly and escape is a viable option)

Though I do see the appeal in replacing Nullifiers: Combas simply disrupt our powers and do not block bullets, so shooting everyone is still viable - Nullifiers provide cover and disrupt powers, so shooting everyone is not as effective (and while I always bring high rate of fire, high reload speed secondary, I can understand others who don't because of how underappreciated secondaries are)

Edited August 20, 2016 by Beggining
Mr.Grammar, Mr.Grammar~

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

I probably don't need to chime in given that the first two replies to your post have 7.5 times more likes than your original post.

However I hate your argument.  "Nullifiers don't need to be changed because they add challenge."

No. They.  Don't. 

Nullifiers are not challenging to deal with in any way.  All you do is rinse a ridiculous large flashing bubble with bullets for a second, pause while you shoot a few other targets and then kill the nully when the shield finally decays.  It is possibly one of the most mind numbing and consistent tactics in the game.  Sure you can do the melee-spin stuff most people parrot, but that only works CONSISTENTLY (meaning you kill the nully and escape unharmed) at lower levels.  However a consistently effective strategy is to CC enemies outside of the bubble(s), use a long range rapid fire weapon to drop the bubble(s), CC the enemies that were in the bubble(s), and then kill the nullifer(s).  Nullifiers effectively double the CC and ability spam they were mean to stop while also unfairly making a large number of weapons almost completely useless.

I hate nullifiers because they force me to use the same darn load out on every single mission that has them.  I want to use snipers and I want to use bows, but I can't because it's apparently not challenging enough that it takes an entire clip of slow firing sniper ammo to drop a single nullifier bubble.  To the "Well, just use your secondary" crowd, what's the point of your primary?  Nullifiers are trash tier enemies that spawn in large numbers.  This means that most of the time you are switching to your secondary to deal with a nully rather than enjoying your primary.  If that is the case why bring a sniper or bow since you not only have to endure the drawbacks of using those weapons but you also have to endure the insanely long switch time between weapons.  It is clearly a better choice to choose the brain dead boltor and not even deal with the drama.

The net effect of nullifiers is to cause a change in loadout selection at the beginning of the mission.  A 'correct' load out allows one to trivialize nullifiers and still AOE everything to death in a completely brain dead fashion.  Any load out that varies from a 'correct' load out is heavily punished.  Enforced meta sucks and should never be part of the game.

[Latiac]

Nulliers are perfect?

 

They are the single most cheesy enemy in the game, They should just stick to enemies that disable certain powers, not all of them.

 

Late game nullifiers fill the entire room, that is not 'perfect the way they are'

[RoninJed]

I still think removing the bubbles and replacing them with a gold aura or light around them would be a good enough nerf. They can still protect units around them like they do now but will have less screen clutter. Being able to see the enemies and the map more would help people to be better shots and move out of harms way.

Edited August 20, 2016 by RoninJed

[SolarDwagon]

This. Enough said really.

[Marthrym]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)ghinellil said:

The real problem is people bringing the Synoid Simulor everywhere... 

That's BS and you know it. Warframe had huge issues before the Simulor, and even more eloquently the Tonkor, and if/when they get nerfed to Hell, those issues will still be there. Nullifiers are no different.

1 hour ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

I'll tell you guys again,

Nullifiers are nothing compared to scrambus/comba & grineer drones. Nullifiers are slow, weak, we can see them coming from a mile away, you cant miss that giant glowy bubble. But some Scrambus/comba can disable abilities & we cant see where they are coming from in a hectic place, even if we can hear their signature sound when they are nearby. Grineer drones are just as bad, bcos theyre small & move eratically fast. 

So your complaints about nulli are pretty much invalid.

It's true that the Scrambus/Comba also have that cheap aura that randomly dispels buffs, and it's just as cheap as nullies stopping not only powers, but EVEYRTHING. But the issue we're talking about here isn't the Scrambus/Comba's BS aura, even though it is just as relevant a problem, it's the nullifier bubble taking on way too many roles, way too effectively, and taking away so many gameplay options that we're reduced to TWO ways of dealing with them, one of which is not an option if we use frames that rely on selfbuffs just to stay alive outside of the bubbles.

Scrambus/Comba can be easily killed, they're not very resilient, and a shot to the head is all it takes to neutralize their BS aura. Unfortunately, as you state, we can't see their aura, and just standing around within it effectively means RNG will decide how boned we are. Auras are the cheapest stuff in this game, but the devs having no idea how to create a fair challenge, they're still a thing. Same goes for nullies. All the devs do in the end is take away gameplay options and more generally ways to win, instead of implementing enemies that require skill and teamwork to take down.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Marthrym

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

They ruin frames that rely on toggle abilities 

The only thing worse than nullys are scrambus and comba units, they don't even have a bubble 

[Zurion]

There are two things that I don't like about nullifiers:

1. Their shield doesn't make any sense. With a Vaykor Hek it takes me around 8 shots to destroy it. 8 shots from a fully modded 5 forma Vaykor Her at point blank range is A LOT of damage. But with an akbolto it also takes around 8 shots to destroy it. And 8 shots from a fully modded no forma Akbolto is.. good.. but doesn't compare to the Hek.
2. The most recent buff the got: they now dispell Frost's bubble on touch.. And not direct touch, but if just their aura touches the frost bubble, it disappears in an instant.Basically makes mobile defense/defense fissures a lot harder, cause they can spawn inside the globe and poof goes the bubble.

[LSG501]

Nullifiers need changing (along with other things), they're a broken 'fix' to deal with the broken game balance. 

It isn't just about the need to change tactics to defeat them, none of us have a problem with this, it's the way the nullifiers are implemented in game that's the problem.

You can't kill them with snipers while the bubbles up, you can't destroy the bubble with certain weapons and when they spawn on top of you in small environments they literally lock down the area, something the devs took away from warframes.... then there's the sheer amount of them at times, sometimes with overlapping bubbles too. 

Then you've got the fact the bubble is also a shield, you can't hit what's inside it without first killing the bubble...so not only does it instantly cancel out all powers it touches including fixed powers like frost globe (I have an issue with this) and wipes out powers like rhino iron skin (also have an issue with this) but it acts as a shield for any other corpus underneath it... and that can include eximus units which have their own shields to 'break' too.   

Now you'll say just run in and kill them all.... lets do that when theres an arctic eximus which slows us down, the units are defended by shield ospreys and the the map has been spammed with sapping osprey domes...   oh wait... we better hang back and just shoot the frame with a high rate of fire weapon and then press 4 instead which doesn't really make much variety in our tactics...

Mind you from my viewpoint (newer player) corpus is basically an enemy that is the equivalent of the 'press 4 to win' warframe approach rather than better tactics due to the way sapping ospreys drop globes at such a high rate, seriously it's feels like every other second... 

So IF the dev's must keep the nullifiers when we do have better alternatives, how about just making it so it can stop powers from being activated in the dome, our frame abilities don't affect them (already done on bosses) and have a 'damage per second' on things like frost globe, rhino skin etc (like if we were on fire or something).  Also allowing punch through weapons like snipers to shoot through dome would be good too, actually I just don't see why the nullifier bubble needs to be a shield too when the corpus unit is heavily armoured but hey I'm not the dev's.  Also reducing the spawn rate on them would be good too. 

 

[makaloff95]

to be honest, the only change i would like to give nullifiers is to remove the bloody wallclipping (seriously, our frames arent allowed to have it, why should a nullie then?) and remove the buff remover, its pain to buff up yourself if you play a buff frame just to see that energy (or health if you play inaros and use his 4th) go wasted beacuse of a nullifier.

 

also i wouldnt mind reducing the spawn rate of nullies either

[Banansa47]

11 hours ago, Banansa47 said:

if anything they should just change them to be mobile shield generators that block powers from hurting/affecting their teammates not stop them from being activated (THATS THE COMBA'S, FOG'S, And SCRAMBUS'S JOB's!!!!).

like this:

corpus guys gather around the nullfier.

nullfier activates his power, a glowing field surrounds him. (no more bullet sponge bubbles yay!!!)

guys get shielded from warframe powers (cc effects, staggers, stuns, status effects of said powers) And they get 55% damage reduction (it functions like mesa's shatter shield)

HOWEVER TO COUNTER THIS YOU NEED TO SHOOT OFF HIS BACKPACK!!! (that means the team snipers have a use now, and also melee attacks will still do to regular damage to them)

Oh yea......

GIVE THE GUY AN AMPREX OR AN OPTICORE INSTEAD OF A GENERIC WEAPON (*cough* boring gorgon on three grineer units *cough*)

Instead of arguing on how bad they are and that they need a constant nerfing or buffing, come up with better ideas on how they should work instead of complaining.

 

[hammerheathen]

On 8/19/2016 at 11:35 PM, Vyra said:

have you ever read any scifi novel?

Force sheilds/shield/internal dampeners etc need to be "Blasted" by either VERY strong DMG ( like nuclear explosions ) or continuous small damage such as high fire rate weaponry or shield leeches...meaning you stress the enemy shield to make it collapse

no sane person would waste massive amounts of energy for huge atomic strikes in space/stations and risk even getting damaged themselves ...
even in star trek they infiltrate/bypass weak spots of the shields to enter the ships...

Also Torpedos such as photon have huge dmg on armor but are less effective against shields.. which is why you usually use your laers/phasers first to strip down the shield and THEN blast them with torpedos

Actually this was quite untrue in Dune, and there were several good reasons that in that book series (one hell of a classic btw) that shields were mostly limited.

In essence though, the speed of the projectile was what was important, a slower moving projectile would be ignored by the shield. Also lasers would make them explode in a fantastic fashion.

[Violent_Jiggler]

Sorry, Mack, but I can't agree. Nullies aren't a problem until they're a problem.

I'm sure anything I can say has been said by multiple people in this thread already, so i'll just leave you with this:

Spoiler

I get a semi for non-automatics.

 

[DeMeritus]

Lotsa people saying nullifiers still need to be buffed way, WAY more to give an appropriate "challange".

I'm not among them.

For one thing, I can actually shell the word challenge correctly.