OK, clearly DE aren't understanding WHY we Nullifiers get so much hate

[Kaiser_Suoh]

But DE dont understand how much snipers and shotguns users hate Nullifiers :´(

[Khaine62]

1 minute ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

But DE dont understand how much snipers and shotguns users hate Nullifiers :´(

Don't forget bows. My poor Dread...T_T

[GrimAtrament]

3 minutes ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

"Never had problem with Nullifiers"? lol

You have not played enough endless missions. Forget the "casual/fast/quick" missions.

a level 150 nulifier hp is low enough any shotgun modded right should 1 hit kill it 

Edited August 20, 2016 by hazerddex

[Kaiser_Suoh]

12 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

a level 150 nulifier hp is low enough any shotgun modded right should 1 hit kill it 

yeah, and the bombards inside the bubble? or the heavy gunners?

The problem is not how many HP Nullifier have, the problem is the fkng shield.

Also , JUST ONE NULLIFIER IS EASY TO KILL, but that is not a problem, the problem is how broken is the shield, and unfunny.

You can melt the shield so easy with a automatic weapon, but no with Snipers/shotguns, you must enter inside the bubble with the possibility of die each time.

With Automatic weapons you shoot outside, no danger, no risk, and is faster.

Dont tell me that is not hard to be a sniper/shotgun user, every shotgun user, not casual shotgun users who use shotguns sometimes, will understand this pain.

My more used loadout of all my 3 years in this game is Strun Wraith (SHOTGUN) + Rhino (not primed) + Carrier

I LIVE AS A SHOTGUN USER.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Kaiser_Suoh

[(PSN)McDrewski]

I just don't get why the bubble has to go through walls and break all laws of time and space and whatnot. 

[GrimAtrament]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)McDrewski said:

I just don't get why the bubble has to go through walls and break all laws of time and space and whatnot. 

so our tenno powers do the same exact thing all fair in love and war my friend

[Khaine62]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)McDrewski said:

I just don't get why the bubble has to go through walls and break all laws of time and space and whatnot. 

It is seriously annoying. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Khaine62 said:

Don't forget bows. My poor Dread...T_T

Here's my loadout for dang near every mission.  Rakta Cernos, Akstilletto Prime, and Nikina Prime.  I have no problem at all with nullies.  Even while doing long survivals solo.  Bow only Corpus sortie: did that one with Rakta Cernos.  Probably should have used my Mutalist Cernos instead.  Finished mission without any problems and half the enemies were Nullies.   I do see how sniper rifles could have a problem, but then there is the Rubico.  Neither bows or snipers are as efficient as using high RoF weapons, but they can still get the job done.  Then there is the fact that you can see nullies coming from miles (kilometers) away due to the bubble.  That's a hint and a half that gives you plenty of time to figure out how to remove the bubble and kill them. 

 

In almost every PuG I've been in that had nullies in the mission, those nullies didn't last at all.  Those multiple players in game didn't have any problems with them.  I don't have any problems with them.  So, what's really annoying about the nullies is probably that most can't kill them with their tonkor and they forgot to bring a secondary.  Is that what it is?

Edited August 20, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[[DE]Danielle]

Hey guys,

So I think it’s easy to say that Nullifiers have been a hot button topic for a very long time. The Devs have openly discussed on Devstreams very recently which has, in-turn, lead to further discussions on the Forums lead by your personal thoughts (and vendettas) on the various Nullifier units. It goes without saying we seriously appreciate you being candid with us about your frustrations and concerns. That said, today we’ve been talking here about the unit as a whole. Now I can’t promise any changes will come out of the discussions, but they are taking place.

Thank you! 

[NightmareT12]

1 minute ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey guys,

So I think it’s easy to say that Nullifiers have been a hot button topic for a very long time. The Devs have openly discussed on Devstreams very recently which has, in-turn, lead to further discussions on the Forums lead by your personal thoughts (and vendettas) on the various Nullifier units. It goes without saying we seriously appreciate you being candid with us about your frustrations and concerns. That said, today we’ve been talking here about the unit as a whole. Now I can’t promise any changes will come out of the discussions, but they are taking place.

Thank you! 

Thanks for letting us know Danielle. It's always gratificating to see the Devs acknowledging discussing ideas due community input :)

[DaftMeat]

I had no real issues with Nullifiers for a long time. Sure, they were really annoying if you didn't have a full-auto or high speed weapon, but it wasn't too difficult to deal with them. At the very least, you could just charge the bubble and melee them to death.

Then the Void blew up.

Today while trying to do a Spy fissure mission, I got off an elevator right next to a Spy Vault entrance. A fissure appeared spawning 2 Nullifiers, an Infested Ancient, a Bombard, a Heavy, and several Grineer and Corpus grunts. Powers blocked, damage resistance, and spam knockdown attacks. I used 4 revives in a row and couldn't get into the vault, and couldn't even get back to the elevator.

Solitary Nullifiers by themselves aren't the problem in my opinion. It's when they appear en masse or with specific combinations of other enemies that balance seems to go out the window.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

3 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

I had no real issues with Nullifiers for a long time. Sure, they were really annoying if you didn't have a full-auto or high speed weapon, but it wasn't too difficult to deal with them. At the very least, you could just charge the bubble and melee them to death.

Then the Void blew up.

Today while trying to do a Spy fissure mission, I got off an elevator right next to a Spy Vault entrance. A fissure appeared spawning 2 Nullifiers, an Infested Ancient, a Bombard, a Heavy, and several Grineer and Corpus grunts. Powers blocked, damage resistance, and spam knockdown attacks. I used 4 revives in a row and couldn't get into the vault, and couldn't even get back to the elevator.

Solitary Nullifiers by themselves aren't the problem in my opinion. It's when they appear en masse or with specific combinations of other enemies that balance seems to go out the window.

I'd have to agree.

I also feel one of their main problems is the bubble stacking, the bubble going through walls and other objects, the bubble affecting Summons (Atlas' Rumblers come to mind), and the bubble protecting everything inside too well.

Oh yeah. 

Also the fact that they spawn WAY too much in the Corpus faction. You will constantly find more Nullifiers than Crewmen, which isn't exactly fun.

[mob9221]

On 8/20/2016 at 4:22 AM, hazerddex said:

how is the balltisca slow? wat? did you mode it for negative fire rate?

beside the point you dont need a super fast firing weapon for nulifiers you can use a high powered close range weapon walk into the bubble enemies outside of it cant hit you when your inside and then you just blow there brains out. how is this so hard?! iv never under stood why people are incapable of such a simple task

But then what about the frames that actually rely on their powers to stay alive and are super squishy without them I.e ivara zephyr loki

On higher levels they get completely oneshotted. 

 

On 8/20/2016 at 4:22 AM, hazerddex said:

 

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

On 8/20/2016 at 2:53 AM, TARINunit9 said:

(If anyone knows Scott's handle, please forward this to him)

So let me spell this out as unambiguously as possible:

WE ALREADY KNOW WHY NULLIFIERS EXIST. WHAT WE HATE IS THAT THEY'RE A TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE EXECUTION OF AN OTHERWISE OK IDEA

What's that? Nullifiers exist to make us change our playstyle and be less reliant on instantly killing everything by spamming our powers? Why yes, we in fact DID already understand that! It's obvious to all of us! That's not what we hate about them. The hate comes from a very bad execution of that idea

Exhibit A: Players who rely too much on powers aren't the only people getting "punished"
Anything that has to charge, as well as Sniper Rifles, is getting rapidly left in the dust in this game; Nullifiers are exacerbating that issue even further. There's a reason the meta is Boltor Prime and Synoid Simulor. The game is set up so that your weapon TYPE is up to your personal preference and only your MOD LOADOUT is the part you need to adapt with for each enemy faction.
Speaking of charge weapons and mods, wasn't there a Miter mod in the pipeline that would insta-pop Nullie bubbles on a charge shot? Anyone remember that?

Exhibit B: They barely even work
Filling the battlefield with Simulor balls and detonating them when a Nullifier walks close will kill Nullies with little hassle. Exalted Blade still shrinks Nullie bubbles and kills them. That's two of the four things Nulllies are meant to stop the abuse of (the others being Ash and Ember). Even the intended solution (toxic melee damage) is far too easy to implement, removing the last vestige of "challenge" from Nullies and leaving only the "obtuse and unfun"

Exhibit C: You've already created better options. Why not use them?
Scrambus units are fast, nullify SOME powers, are tanky but still weak-ish to toxic melee damage, and have dangerous weapons that can be avoided with actual skill. Also you cna stop their nullifier fields by shooting their helmets off, which unlike Nullies doesn't discriminate against weapon type and scales far better with level. Isolator Bursas have a little too much going for them (one-hit-kill shotgun AND 6 second stun attack AND scorpion harpoon AND Nullifier Grenades?) but the Nullifier Grenades themselves are a much better concept than Nullifier Shields ever were

The verdict: Nullifiers are a terrible bandaid solution to a problem that could be solved much better. It's time for that to actually happen

(I realized that every time someone spells this out, it's not as the OP of a thread, but somewhere in the replies. It's time to rectify that too)

P.S. every time you make a post like this, people will defend the broken nullifiers, but i definitely agree with you man +1

[BlackCoMerc]

On 8/20/2016 at 3:53 AM, TARINunit9 said:

(If anyone knows Scott's handle, please forward this to him)

So let me spell this out as unambiguously as possible:

WE ALREADY KNOW WHY NULLIFIERS EXIST. WHAT WE HATE IS THAT THEY'RE A TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE EXECUTION OF AN OTHERWISE OK IDEA

What's that? Nullifiers exist to make us change our playstyle and be less reliant on instantly killing everything by spamming our powers? Why yes, we in fact DID already understand that! It's obvious to all of us! That's not what we hate about them. The hate comes from a very bad execution of that idea

Exhibit A: Players who rely too much on powers aren't the only people getting "punished"
Anything that has to charge, as well as Sniper Rifles, is getting rapidly left in the dust in this game; Nullifiers are exacerbating that issue even further. There's a reason the meta is Boltor Prime and Synoid Simulor. The game is set up so that your weapon TYPE is up to your personal preference and only your MOD LOADOUT is the part you need to adapt with for each enemy faction.
Speaking of charge weapons and mods, wasn't there a Miter mod in the pipeline that would insta-pop Nullie bubbles on a charge shot? Anyone remember that?

Exhibit B: They barely even work
Filling the battlefield with Simulor balls and detonating them when a Nullifier walks close will kill Nullies with little hassle. Exalted Blade still shrinks Nullie bubbles and kills them. That's two of the four things Nulllies are meant to stop the abuse of (the others being Ash and Ember). Even the intended solution (toxic melee damage) is far too easy to implement, removing the last vestige of "challenge" from Nullies and leaving only the "obtuse and unfun"

Exhibit C: You've already created better options. Why not use them?
Scrambus units are fast, nullify SOME powers, are tanky but still weak-ish to toxic melee damage, and have dangerous weapons that can be avoided with actual skill. Also you cna stop their nullifier fields by shooting their helmets off, which unlike Nullies doesn't discriminate against weapon type and scales far better with level. Isolator Bursas have a little too much going for them (one-hit-kill shotgun AND 6 second stun attack AND scorpion harpoon AND Nullifier Grenades?) but the Nullifier Grenades themselves are a much better concept than Nullifier Shields ever were

The verdict: Nullifiers are a terrible bandaid solution to a problem that could be solved much better. It's time for that to actually happen

(I realized that every time someone spells this out, it's not as the OP of a thread, but somewhere in the replies. It's time to rectify that too)

Well said. I could not agree more.

[Nhemin]

On 20/08/2016 at 1:07 AM, izzatuw said:

A major problem with nullifiers is that they don't just effect people that spam abilities.

 

they also have a major effect on people that don't use rapid fire weapons which would be people that use snipers, bows, Marelok/Lex, shotgun users.

And poor nekros who's entire ultimate suddenly becomes moot because a nullifier spawned and killed all your guys which you require ACTUAL KILLS to get back.  Unlike everyone else who can just get more energy and hit their ultimate ability again. 

The nullifier bubbles are just too big and restrict gameplay to the "not fun and requires no skill" level.  I remember back in Diablo 2 of all games when they finally took off Iron Maiden from enemies and made the caster equivalent to it change.  Because Blizzard realized it made combat extremely tedious and not fun at all for players as they weren't able to do the one thing that made the game fun: attack and cast abilities.  

When you make enemies that just flat out cancel a player's ability to shoot, deal damage and use abilities, what's the point of even playing?  I specifically go and fight everything else aside from high level corpus to avoid nullifiers because they simply ARE NOT FUN TO FIGHT.  

[BAY35]

On 8/20/2016 at 2:07 AM, hazerddex said:

does 80 min not count as more then an hour any more?

http://imgur.com/ZkdxQw4

[Kiyomaru-EN-]

Okay... I didn't want to get involved, but here we go again. Nullifiers themselves are not quite the problem. Yes it is annoying that they just "take your powers away" when you get inside the bubbles, or that they block your weaponfire. So far I can understand those who have no problem with the nullifiers and I agree, BUT! Having a whole room FLOODED with 10+ Nullifiers of both varieties along with 30+ different enemies is just plain gamebreaking. I encountered this exact scenario in a Fissure mission, a rescue if I recall correctly. I played with a team and we just got to the Holding Cells when POP POP POP the Fissures spawned more enemies in the room... We ended up failing the mission repeatedly because either we kept dying or the Operative got downed so fast that you couldn't even blink, and then have fun reviving that guy, which is near impossible when thousands of bullets are fired at you at once.

And here's the thing... I might be wrong, but do Nullifier Bubbles block enemy fire? Because I don't think so... So.... Why do they block OUR fire and not the fire from their allies? With things like Snow Globe, even ALLIED FIRE is blocked from weapons with no PT, so why is it that it's not the case with Nullifier Bubbles(again I might be wrong. Can someone enlighten me please?)?

What I would like to happen to the Nullifiers is:

1. Reduce their Frequency in which they appear
2. If you make them immune to powers, make them immune to ALL, as long as they are in their bubbles.
3. Make Punchthrough pass through the bubble and/or eliminate the per-hit-damage-cap on the bubbles.

On ‎20‎.‎08‎.‎2016 at 0:20 PM, hazerddex said:

 here you go some lag spikes but should run smoothly

 

no naramon

and no high fire rate weapon my secondary is the kulstar 

 

Okay... Props to you for making that video. BUT. The only thing that you proved is that you can easily deal with one Nullifiers, one Ancient and one Corrupted Bombard.

If you really wanna show off how they are no problems, crank up their number by like... Um... I dunno 5 to 10 each? And throw some Corrupted Crewman in there. And for good measure, why don't you throw some Corrupted Grinner in the mix too?

Again, the problem with Nullifiers is their frequency in combination with dozens of other enemies at once. Sure, at low levels that is no Problem, but the higher the enemy level is, the more problematic it is gonna be.

[Horaciozhao]

wait for scott reading this then next hotfix "Nullifier bubbles are now unshrinkable"

[Luther848]

1 hour ago, Horaciozhao said:

wait for scott reading this then next hotfix "Nullifier bubbles are now unshrinkable"

I'm thinking it'll be more along the lines of shooting the bubble no makes it increase in size and all enemies in the bubble get a speed increase, fire rate increase, reload increase and cannot take more than 25% of their total health as damage.

[Freeshooter92]

23 minutes ago, Luther848 said:

I'm thinking it'll be more along the lines of shooting the bubble no makes it increase in size and all enemies in the bubble get a speed increase, fire rate increase, reload increase and cannot take more than 25% of their total health as damage.

'Hysteria self damage now affects the entire team.'

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Kiyomaru-EN- said:

BUT! Having a whole room FLOODED with 10+ Nullifiers of both varieties along with 30+ different enemies is just plain gamebreaking. I encountered this exact scenario in a Fissure mission, a rescue if I recall correctly. I played with a team and we just got to the Holding Cells when POP POP POP the Fissures spawned more enemies in the room... We ended up failing the mission repeatedly because either we kept dying or the Operative got downed so fast that you couldn't even blink, and then have fun reviving that guy, which is near impossible when thousands of bullets are fired at you at once.

I must admit, THAT is a truly jacked up situation.  

[SweetJackal]

As it has been pointed by many before me:  The damage shield mechanics of the Nullifier Bubbles have horrible weapon interaction.  By having a cap on how much they can be reduced per shot and actually providing a damage shield they heavily harm anything that isn't a bullet hose and against high damage low shot weapons they are stronger than the Frost Eximus shield.

 

True, the damage protection of bubble shields can be countered by getting inside the bubble shield but a melee weapon can just as easily slay them in that range and bullet hose weapons also provide faster room clearing power than other weapon categories.  So the shields hurt weapons that were already subpar due to weapon type.

 

Nullifiers stopping power spam isn't a bad thing, rather it is a good thing.  Having an enemy that is high on the priority list means that a 4 stack has it's slayers having something to do and makes them rather critical.  Currently Nullifiers are the big threat as they cannot be dealt with by powers and force many strategies to revolve around dealing with them instead of shifting or changing strategies on the fly, they aren't the best for their goal but it is the unintended consequences they have on gameplay by being such a high priority target and their interactions between their bullet shield and weapons.

[NGarai]

The game is a power fantasy par excellence. What is seemingly is a hard counter, is easily circumvented with tactics and cost benefit analysis (do I adopt: run and cover game play to keep my buffs; or engage, dispatch, and risk tactical advantage.) If you are playing against enemies above your mod advantage and level the risk are greater. If this bothers you find like minded Tenno and tack the potential challenge together, mitigating risk. Nullifies are a solid counterable game mechanic, they provide reasonable risk in a game that is about stroking your e/Power/Fashion/Peen.

[Chroia]

Sidenote:
Why was killing Nullifiers with an exploding Glaive from outside their bubble removed?
That was both a skillful solution (go ahead, argue that it's less skillful than hosing down the bubble with an automatic), and left me free to use an actual ammo-efficient (read: not a full-auto) secondary.