The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Azrael]

3 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Wouldn't be a nerf. Just different playstyle.

Maybe for YOU it wouldn't be a nerf. *I* would starve to death. :)

[LSG501]

28 minutes ago, RikerWatts said:

But we now have vacuum on all sentinels as a whole, albeit smaller with the possibility for DE to listen and alter it to a proper more acceptable size, all you have to do right now is walk a little bit closer. It's still being vacuumed to you at an ok range, but if you're utilizing vacuum on carrier before this you're doing one of three things.

1. Actively searching for a specific or multiple resource materials you need.
2. Stockpiling passively while you play which is generally why Carrier got it's 78% overall usage in the past month
3. Not actually looking for anything at all but having it just do the farming work for you.

What about 4.... utilising a tool to do a necessary task for progression while we focus on the primary task of killing/capturing/defending etc.... MR levelling requires weapons and frames which all require resources and credits.  We shouldn't need to rely on resource farms just to get essential elements of the game.

As to your comment about a silent nerf to the vacuum mod... no there hasn't been one until this change to a passive, the range was exactly the same as it had always been, a 12m radius sphere. 

It likely won't change the stats much anyway, most people will still use carrier (prime if they've got it) due to it's stats and it's new ammo mod is incredibly useful for high ammo usage weapons.  The mods are trying to fix sentinel usage by nerfing vacuum and making it universal instead of dealing with the real issue with sentinels.  We asked for at the very least for kavats/kubrows to get vacuum and it's now something that 'might happen later' (I'll believe it when I see it) or ideally for the warframe to get the universal vacuum....what we get is another nerf that basically increases the grind, something they're supposedly trying to reduce... yeah it's not going well. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by LSG501

[DeFragMe]

well the reason msotly would be.... it would make all ressource collecting even more trivial as it is already.

6m is quite fine, i tried it. not as big as 12 m but i still catch everything while i rush through a corridor. Just not the stuff my other players get a 10-20meters next to me wich is fine.

[Arniox]

I personally don't care that much. It's actually a really nice change. Although, the nerf to the range was kinda uncalled for. It's a grinding loot game.... you're meant to be able to loot a lot.

Anyways, what I'm more worried about is what sentinel to move to. I have never played with any of the other ones so I'm not sure what else is good.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 hours ago, Slaviar said:

While also increasing ammo capacity, therefore carrying it for you

Again, "making more ammo" != "carrying your loot". They took him from the most useful sentinel in the game to "ammo drum: the companion," and we all know how useful the community finds ammo drum. 

Like I said before, it might be less of a problem if he instantly converted ammo at the same efficiency as primed ammo conversion mods, and vacuum had not been nerfed when it was given to the other sentinels.  If DE wants to make the Vacuum backlash go away, then all they really need to do is make the vacuum passive 12m and add an option in the settings to toggle it off for the people that don't want to use it. 

I just don't get DE to be honest. They main draw of their game, the main thing that gets people into WF, is the speed, how much faster it is than other modern shooters.  Yet, every change they make seems to be in pursuit of making the game slower. They did the same thing with parkour 2.slow until there was a huge community backlash, which lead to us getting aim gliding and bullet jumping, which helped the game maintain a bit of its speed.

Rather than trying to get rid of the game's speed for some reason, DE should be using it as a selling/marketing point. 

[Skaleek]

Very hard apparently. I want them to add a little blue pill that increases my warframes vacuum range to a stiff 6 meters. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 

 

EDIT: Teehee 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Skaleek

[Sloan441]

Nah, you wouldn't.

You'd just have to 'git gud' and starvation is just motivation.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

2 minutes ago, DeFragMe said:

well the reason msotly would be.... it would make all ressource collecting even more trivial as it is already.

6m is quite fine, i tried it. not as big as 12 m but i still catch everything while i rush through a corridor. Just not the stuff my other players get a 10-20meters next to me wich is fine.

They just indirectly nerfed my nekros 

[trunks013]

Actualy we are yeah.

Remember the excalibur line of sigh on radial javelin. All tenno were super angry the whole thing got fire.

Why ? because they were working on the rework and with the 2 skill he would have been to powerfull. ( also t o avoid draco )

I think the current vacuum situation is a test to gather data and improvite after. Maybe there is a nwe feature we dont know about that explains this.

[RikerWatts]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

Classic superiority complex from players that have nothing better to do in life and unlocked everything the game has to offer, and now spend their days crying about when the War Within is coming. I guess we all cry for different reasons, but I bet you would have felt differently had this change come out after only a year you began to play it. 

You pick on him when he joined about a year ago, he too probably knows about the issues carrier had on the sentinel environment. Yet, just like all the people who have stayed through updates that have removed something: He understands.
It would seem you are the one crying about something, as I am rank 20 in 89 days, newer than you, was here long enough to hit 12 with draco, yet I can comprehend everything that is going on and their reasoning because it is all because DE doesn't like the way the game was being played. It was incorrect, unhealthy. The game is grindy, but they hate for it to BE grindy, and if you look, they are working toward fixing that one step at a time.

[NoXHeart]

Balance exists even in PVE, DE has been touching things that trivialize content for awhile now and will probably continue to do so, Ash's blade storm has beens strongely hinted to be next on the list.

 

I'm sorry, but all this feels to me like whining due to sheer laziness, I guess its just me who's been playing on and off since update 6 and has never relied on carrier since its release.

[PrVonTuckIII]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

Classic superiority complex from players that have nothing better to do in life and unlocked everything the game has to offer, and now spend their days crying about when the War Within is coming. I guess we all cry for different reasons, but I bet you would have felt differently had this change come out after only a year you began to play it. 

First off, lay off the hostility. FYI, I'm not even half-way through the game's content at this point. I barely play for more than a few hours a week. But aside from that, you haven't actually rebutted my point. The old Carrier/Vacuum meant that players got 'addicted' to being able to run through a mission without ever bothering about pickups. That's not the point of the game. A player shouldn't be able to simply speed-run like that with zero penalties. Now, not only will other Sentinels see more usage, but players will actually have to look around for what they're missing.

And in all actuality, this change did come little over a year after I started WF. And I'm glad that now I can take out something better than Carrier.

 

[CandyDragon]

got to love how they actually quartered the area of pickup by reducing the radius to half.   Circles, how do they work?

[Shockwave-]

5 hours ago, RiouHotaru said:

But this is wrong.  This is so wrong in fact I actually logged in to point this out.  The fact you're so grossly misrepresenting what's going on is disappointing to say the least.

Let's make this analogy actually work, without misusing math, shall we?

You make 500k a year.  Wife and 2 kids currently make nothing.

Boss decides to be generous and give everyone a yearly salary equal to half what you made (See what I did there?  The change from 12m to 6m is HALF, not this BS fraction you tried to pass as representative of the balance change.  Math goddamnit).

This means that you, individually, make 250k.  A shame, because it's less.

But now the wife and 2 kids make 250k each.  Meaning the total income for the entire family is now a whopping 1,000,000.

Individually, the change is less.  But taken as a whole, it's an overall improvement.

And that is what happened here.

I "see what you did there" you lied. The vacuum area was reduced by 1/8 not 1/2.

You can also only use 1 sentinel at a time. In your example you add them all up. The correct example here would be you make 500,000k a  year and the boss is upset your kids don't so you can now CHOOSE which family member will get paidm but only one can get paid,  and in exchange for that choice whomever you choose will make 250K a year.

 

The choice is an illusion if all the choices are WORSE than the choice you had.

[Azrael]

Just now, Sloan441 said:

Nah, you wouldn't.

You'd just have to 'git gud' and starvation is just motivation.

Nah, Pai Mei will just let me eat with my hands on the floor. He might get mad, but I'm pretty sure that was an option.

[Imaru]

I don't claim to speak for DE, but I think it may have been that innate 12m vacuum on every sentinel would have been way too powerful (frankly on just Carrier it was unreasonably powerful) so they reduced it to better reflect what they thought would be balanced. 

I don't think it is perfect, but I feel that the current range is good, and I never really liked Carrier to begin with (a necessary evil if you will) and they said that they plan to keep an eye on it and see how things change and adapt over time. 

[LSG501]

3 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Now, not only will other Sentinels see more usage, but players will actually have to look around for what they're missing.

And in all actuality, this change did come little over a year after I started WF. And I'm glad that now I can take out something better than Carrier.

 

Are you sure about that... which other sentinel will you take.... which is better than a carrier, especially the prime version.

[Hypernaut1]

4 minutes ago, SpeedOfLightPuncher said:

I do not even use carrier much, my most used companion my my kavat but I still think that picking us health orbs, energy orbs and resources is important 

If you are trying to fully enjoy the game you will not focus on picking up loot, even if it is so "easy". I know that many people have opinions but this is not ment to be a resource collector game but clan research and some of the more expensive weapons prove otherwise. Even as a veteran you will want to get your new released items as fast as possible. And I am not talking about those trash resources that you have 1 billion of. If you are farming argon crystals you can not have 1 big grind session. You will need a one grind session where you will pick up the most loot you can.

To be honest it is kind of sad that we have to use specific warframes and companions to get the most loot but without the grind there would be no profit for DE. 

It is just a weird game with many systems that need to be upgraded. And loot is clearly one of them 

As a vet, it's rare that I need to specifically farm for a resource. When I do have to farm, it will be for a rare resource that's highlighted anyway. I don't get why people use the argument that mobility makes it harder to grab loot, when it does the exact opposite.

 

3 minutes ago, Inglu said:

I guess I don't need ammo or energy either? To be fair, I wouldn't mind an Amprex that runs on space magic...

Dont get me wrong, vacuum was great for certain builds (low ammo builds, farming build)  If you main an amprex, then sure you may NEED vacuum, but most weapons do not run out of ammo during your average mission. Energy and health orbs are RNG, it's a convenience, but not game changing. 

[LSG501]

Honestly all they need to do is this...

Give us back the full range

Add it to kavats/kubrows or even better add it to the warframe so if the companion dies we still have vacuum.

 

Then we might actually see some usage of kubrows/kavats instead of sentinel

I can't see there being any change to the usage patterns if I'm honest and as I've said elsewhere, the only real way to make people use the other sentinels is to 'standardise' them with the same stats (prime being higher obviously) and make all the mods work on ALL the sentinels, in essence allowing us to take the sentinel we like the look of the most. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by LSG501

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, Shockwave- said:

I "see what you did there" you lied. The vacuum area was reduced by 1/8 not 1/2.

You can also only use 1 sentinel at a time. In your example you add them all up. The correct example here would be you make 500,000k a  year and the boss is upset your kids don't so you can now CHOOSE which family member will get paidm but only one can get paid,  and in exchange for that choice whomever you choose will make 250K a year.

 

The choice is an illusion if all the choices are WORSE than the choice you had.

Not 250k, 62.5k. Your pay got reduced to 1/8th of its original value. But at least you get to choose!

Okay, so this isn't totally fair because there is actually some value in having that choice. I do, in fact, like having a 6m vacuum on helios. But I think this analogy makes a very good point.

[Ninja-Gyles]

6 minutes ago, WEREsandrock said:

Also... did I read this right.... are people who say that carrier is overrated now called hipsters?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That seems to be the consensus. I believe it's just salt over a favorite feature that they married from day one. We few who didn't do the same are just easy target for their frustration. Hopefully this blows over soon.

[k05h]

8 minutes ago, Pendragon1951 said:

I sometimes have to wonder why DE likes to over complicate things, personally I don't see why the range of Vacuum was reduced to 6 meters. The easier solution would have been to not do any change to Vacuum range and give it this way to the other Sentinels. It can't have anything to do with balance since this is PVE, so what was the reason? Another thing is the whole point of this change was to make Carrier less unique so other Sentinels would be equally used, but they basically gave Carrier a ammo mutation mod that not only converts ammo but increases your ammo which now makes Carrier doubly more unique than the other Sentinels, so they didn't really accomplish what they set out to do.

Maybe they will explain the new range in the next dev stream. It is valid question and there is for sure a reason why they chose that particular range.

But they of course do not have to. Their terms of use clearly state that they can change anything anytime without prior notice and without any explanation. 

[Siekier]

Once again I am disappointed by the devs.

Instead of fixing the "problem" (which I wouldn't really consider a problem to begin with) they managed to mess up Carrier, straight up reduce his usefulness while giving just a slight bit of utility to other sentinels.

I wonder if they don't even see the feedback or they just don't give a damn.

This is one of the reasons I'm taking longer and longer breaks from the game.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

like a million of these threads....? lol just post in one of them.

Definitely needs a mega thread on this topic. ?

[Zerdfer]

9 hours ago, NinthAria said:

Getting harpooned out of the air by a scorpion destroys the flow of the game. Having to spend an extra second or two, tops, to pick stuff up is an inconvenience that barely warrants mention.

kill them first and don't get harpooned. In other word ... git gud ...