Bladestorm rework feedback

[Kai]

Just now, X3Evanescence said:

I've been racking my brain for ideas, but here is one I have coming off the top of my head:

Blade Storm:  

Initial cast marks enemies in a 10/10/15/20 meter radius around Ash. Marked enemies take increased finisher damage. Casting teleport on enemies marked will have no energy cost and auto-performs a finisher on the enemy. For each finisher, it will open a frame of seconds where if you essentially "Chain-Teleport" and attack enemies, you gain a multiplier for the finisher damage based on how many chains you manage to do. 

Question though, on initial cast, does Ash actually attacks them or it simply marks them for increased finisher damage? While the idea is certainly neat it looks more like a buff (like an actual buff) for Ash's Teleport Ability + Fatal Teleport Augment. While it is certainly interactive in a sense that you need to actively teleport around the place, so that's something.

[weezedog]

1 minute ago, rockscl said:

op says he will get stuck in long animations, but now its in his hands to decided how many enemies attack each time he uses it

the rest is your opinion, i had a problem with ASH being a no hands mode frame and the change fixes it for me, also he will gain synergy from his team mates as he will save energy, now ash can focus on real threats, if the player can of course

the interactivity while the ultimate is going on is not a mandatory change imo because if you remove it from ash, then people who likes the cosmetic aspect of it will want it to be restored somewhere else, theres no substantial reason to remove it from ash, its just cosmetic

The animations remove the player from combat and completely break the flow of the game for the player. Hell, if you bladestorm an ancient disruptor you might as well go the the bathroom or go make popcorn while you wait. It's not a good design. A good design should not remove the player from combat. 

[gluih]

3 minutes ago, Urlan said:

I personally would have loved an exalted weapon type approach that just made his other abilities cheaper while burning energy to encourage spamming abilities and stab teleporting around.

One of the reasons I don't like bladestorm the way it is right now is that it is so similar to teleport. In theory it would be enough to just let players teleport on the enemies for free. The only problem there is that it is too slow and that you can't look around during the animation. If the killing animation was quicker and you could look for the next target while Ash is doing his thing, it would feel a lot better to use. I know that the speed can be increased by mods on the melee weapon, but I don't like making my melee weapon worse.

[gluih]

3 minutes ago, ashrah said:

idea is cool its similar concept like zero from borderlands 2   u mark target then u do massive amount of dmg...problem is  this type of mehanics will be inpractical in fast  game like warframe....i played ash lot in t4 void 2+h solo and enemies on that lvl  doing massive dmg...2-3 shot and u going down just like that better would be something like exalibur but no waves.....

Are you talking about the rework from the devstream here or my idea? Because my idea is that you press the button and everything in a radius similar to the range of the current bladestorm would marked and from that point on you deal a lot more damage because enemies take extra bleed damage.

[rockscl]

40 minutes ago, gluih said:

A

Having to mark the enemies manually slows it down by a lot. Depending on how the mechanic works it might just be more effective to shoot the enemies intead of usign the ultimate.

B
I like the idea of the ultimate marking enemies within an area.
Marked enemies would have an increased chance to get hit by bleed procs. This would be affected by power strength and would also affect attacks by other teammembers.
On top of that using the other abilities on marked target would cost less energy and would have special effects.
Shuriken would deal extra damage.
Smoke screen would CC all marked targets, no matter how far away they are from Ash. CC could mean different things, like slowing them down, blinding them or just reducing their damage.
Teleport would activate the old bladestorm animation, so the attack would be a lot quicker.
If players feel like they can't kill enough with this, teleport would always attack 2 extra enemies when used on a marked target.

 

dont you see the huge contradiction between A and B, first you call it too slow, then suggest a far slower mechanical change, i dont think your suggestion is bad, i just dont see it working for the problem you pointed to begin with, the degree if synergy you describe is something i would welcome in the game, but actually there is synergy in his kit now, you can go invis and teleport to mark, or you can teleport and go invis to stagger and then mark, both methods as slow/fast as your suggestion and both allow and welcome team mates interaction as they can make you save energy and you can make em attack staggered targets

i detracted the old bladestorm for being too easy, to the point of being game breaking, and as long as the player has to put some hands in its usage or even struggle a bit to survive i think its ok, and theres no need to rework it to the ground, your ideas are good for a new frame, i dont see any problem with that

Edited October 7, 2016 by rockscl

[X3Evanescence]

1 minute ago, Harowing said:

Question though, on initial cast, does Ash actually attacks them or it simply marks them for increased finisher damage? While the idea is certainly neat it looks more like a buff (like an actual buff) for Ash's Teleport Ability + Fatal Teleport Augment. While it is certainly interactive in a sense that you need to actively teleport around the place, so that's something.

It marks them for increased finisher damage, setting them up for a barrage of Teleports I guess? But I also feel that there must be something for a second cast, or else it is simply just some debuff skill...

[Urlan]

That is why I think an exalted version would be better than just the same but with forced targeting.

[GinKenshin]

Hoi Tenno, 


I just have a little suggestion for the baldestrom rework shown on devstream 81. when you mark targets, let them be staggered or stunned for a sec or 2. it's just that between holding 4, moving and shooting/using abilities, it's just too much for 2 hands, you'll easily get bombarded or some of these damned corrupted crewmen are around or just dragged down by infested. plus it'll give BS some CC I guess

It's not a 'do this or the ability will fail' kinda thing, just some QoL 


Also, if I go a little off-topic, I generally don't like this new BS. I don't particularly love the current one, it's very OP. but....idk, I just expected more than just aim to kill : /  


Thank You! ^^ 

[Insizer]

It doesn't look unplayable, frankly it looks like it is rather fast. The holding is a bad idea, but it would work completely fine basically as is in any squad.

[gluih]

Just now, rockscl said:

dont you see the huge contradiction between A and B, first you call it too slow, then suggest a far slower mechanical change, i dont think your suggestion is bad, i just dont see it working for the problem you pointed to begin with, the degree if synergy you describe is something i would welcome in the game, but actually there is synergy in his kit now, you can go invis and teleport to mark, or you can teleport and go invis to stagger and then mark, both methods as slow/fast as your suggestion and both allow and welcome team mates interaction as they can make you save energy and you can make em attack staggered targets

The missing synergy in his kit mainly has to do with bladestorm not working well with the rest. Either you bladestorm around or you use the rest.
His invis has limited synergy with the rest of his kit, because it so short, but that's fine imo.

My suggestion doesn't have the same problem as the one from the devstream. You mark the area and you and your teammates get benefits. While you might not use the rest of your abilities as much in a team, bladestorm would still be very useful, by providing very high scaling damage through bleed procs and it would make teleport more useable in that environment.

[rockscl]

ok, it actually breaks the game flow, but only for its user, the disruptor thing cant happen with the new mechanics

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

I say just remove his clones and leave everything else about BS untouched. This will slow it down to the point that it will be faster to just shoot the enemies, but BS will still work as originally intended. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

I've been waiting for Ash rework for so long but I'm pretty disappointed with this one lol.

All you need to do is holding down 4 then swing your mouse around like having a seizure then every enemies on sight will be marked. Might as well keep the current BS but apply LoS check on it.

[Xekrin]

28 minutes ago, Harowing said:

it certainly becomes a hassle to hold a buttom

I think the easiest and most obvious solution would be tap once to mark, and tap again to activate.  I don't know why they decided that holding the button in conjunction with moving about was a great idea.  It might work slightly better(?) on consoles but keeping your finger on 4 while hitting WASD will quickly become a chore.

You are right in that shooting enemies marks them, but you immediately regain the energy for enemies you mark that die so its not all that bad.

[X3Evanescence]

How about this!

Blade Frenzy: (25 energy initial cast, toggle with energy drain)

-Ash enters Blade Frenzy mode, continuously marking all enemies within 10/10/15/20 meters around him.

-Casting Teleport on marked enemies auto-performs a finisher on the enemy. Energy cost is eliminated due to constant energy drain in the mode.

-There will be a COMBO MULTIPLIER, giving a short window of time where if you can chain teleport finishers, there will be a multiplier allowing you to deal EVEN MORE finisher damage. This STACKS with your Melee combo multiplier.

-If enemies marked suffers a slash proc, ALL marked enemies takes the same DoT. (Optional)

-Smoke Screen's Stealth Multiplier further increases finisher damage.

-Fatal Teleport's energy refund effect on successful kills synergize well with this ability, making it (NOT) useless. To prevent this being OP, perhaps energy drain be REASONABLY increased to compensate.

 

[Kai]

Just now, X3Evanescence said:

How about this!

Blade Frenzy: (25 energy initial cast, toggle with energy drain)

-Ash enters Blade Frenzy mode, continuously marking all enemies within 10/10/15/20 meters around him.

-Casting Teleport on marked enemies auto-performs a finisher on the enemy. Energy cost is eliminated due to constant energy drain in the mode.

-There will be a COMBO MULTIPLIER, giving a short window of time where if you can chain teleport finishers, there will be a multiplier allowing you to deal EVEN MORE finisher damage. This STACKS with your Melee combo multiplier.

-If enemies marked suffers a slash proc, ALL marked enemies takes the same DoT. (Optional)

-Smoke Screen's Stealth Multiplier further increases finisher damage.

-Fatal Teleport's energy refund effect on successful kills synergize well with this ability, making it (NOT) useless. To prevent this being OP, perhaps energy drain be REASONABLY increased to compensate.

 

That's a good alternative, a buffing state for ash.

 

2 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I think the easiest and most obvious solution would be tap once to mark, and tap again to activate.  I don't know why they decided that holding the button in conjunction with moving about was a great idea.  It might work slightly better(?) on consoles but keeping your finger on 4 while hitting WASD will quickly become a chore.

You are right in that shooting enemies marks them, but you immediately regain the energy for enemies you mark that die so its not all that bad.

That is true, it would essentially work like Equinox's 4th Ability.

[Xekrin]

45 minutes ago, weezedog said:

Also it needs to be able to be cancelled early, as being stuck in a long bladestorm is also a big complaint. 

I feel like it might be a lot shorter than you think.  

First, each mark consumes energy, which means it would behoove you to beware how many you mark.  It is now (will be) entirely in your control how long it takes.  Rather than hitting the ancient disrupter 18 times you hit it once.

Second, you only attack each target once, additional marks are hit by clones.

The only problem I have with it really is holding the button down while also using WASD.  I am hoping they rethink that and just make it hit 4 once to mark and hit 4 again to release/activate.

Of course, as with any demo they show us on devstreams it is still an extreme WIP.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

I say just remove his clones and leave everything else about BS untouched. This will slow it down to the point that it will be faster to just shoot the enemies, but BS will still work as originally intended. 

[Azrael]

18 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

I've been waiting for Ash rework for so long but I'm pretty disappointed with this one lol.

All you need to do is holding down 4 then swing your mouse around like having a seizure then every enemies on sight will be marked. Might as well keep the current BS but apply LoS check on it.

All I want is to get rid of the invulnerability phase. If they change that, they can keep old BS, imo.

[Azrael]

14 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

I say just remove his clones and leave everything else about BS untouched. This will slow it down to the point that it will be faster to just shoot the enemies, but BS will still work as originally intended. 

That would just be a straight nerf, and would fix none of the problems with it.

[X3Evanescence]

With the recent Devstream #81, we have all seen how the new Blade Storm functions, requiring one to hold the 4 key to select enemies for marking. Personally I feel that that is a cumbersome change that does not promote much interactivity. As such, I have been thinking of how Blade Storm can truly be reworked into a fun, scalable skill that is interactive. Keeping that in mind, here is my idea!

Ash's Blade Storm: 25 energy initial cost, toggle skill with enegy drain.

-Upon casting, All enemies around Ash in a 10/10/15/20 meter range are marked, this range can be increased with mods of course.

-Ash gains increased Melee attack speed, allowing for faster Finisher animations.

-Marked enemies take increased Finisher damage.

-Casting Teleport on marked enemies consume no energy. This is important so that you can teleport around and open enemies up to finishers. This also promotes synergy between the 2 abilities, and give you more control of who you want to execute first! It is also more interactive since you are actively seeking to teleport to targets and slaying them with finishers.

-In addition to the combo multiplier, there will be an additional multiplier that scales off the number of FINISHERS executed. Within this window of time (8 seconds), Ash can essentially chain finishers and gain an additional damage multiplier for every few Finishers he executes. This will STACK with the combo multiplier for melee, and Fatal Teleport, opening possibilities for some RIDICULOUS amounts of damage.

-Fatal Teleport's energy refund per kill will help with the energy drain.

 

Feel free to post your own ideas and thoughts about Ash's Blade Storm rework below. 

 

TL;DR: 4,4,4,4,4 > 4,3,E,3,E,3,E or with augment > 4,3,3,3,3 with more damage.

[Chipputer]

The only way to make it interactive enough is to turn his ultimate into a pair of exalted arm blades. Then you'd be complaining that it's another exalted style weapon.

Letting you choose who to hit and how many times is perfect.

[Chipputer]

You saw one person demonstrate it and you can tell how slow it is? Dang, man. That's amazing.

[kuchn]

Merc -1 on that one, sry

press 4 to win has to go...

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

ADDITIONAL PASSIVE:

-store a percentage of bleeding dmg for the next melee attack

-store a percentage of bleeding dmg to buff armor temporary

-store a percentage of bleeding dmg to buff next shuriken with multishot (more shurikens)

REWORKS:

-Multitools teleport

Press jump after teleport to an enemy = boosted jump on an enemy, knocks the enemy down

Press reload after teleport to an enemy = sommersault kick the enemy, knocks them up (& down), auto reloads all weapons & steal ammo from enemy during sommersault kick

Press slide after teleport to an enemy= boosted shadow slide, leaving an afterimage clone (decoy) before slide, decoy acts like a "ghost"(as in ghost data in racing games), tracks player previous movement for a duration, will stop if it reach player's position. Shadow slide knocks down/push enemies in path.

Press teleport right after teleport on the same enemy/ hold teleport = killer instinct (which basically a Manic style pounce) multiple finisher damage with ash wrist blades.

Press melee after teleport to an enemy = normal finisher

AUGMENTS:

VOID PREDATOR (replacing existing Shuriken augment)

Enemies bled by Shuriken will be marked on map & visible through wall for all squad, will have their armor reduced by 70%, slowed movement, fear & running away from players for a duration.

FATAL TELEPORT (changing existing teleport augment)

All action from multitools teleport have 90% chance of causing finisher damage on enemies:

- boosted jump on an enemy deals (melee) finisher damage & creates heavy impact on the (knocked down) enemy jumped on

- sommersault kick deals (melee) finisher damage & if max ammo reached on ammo steal, will grant 100% crit chance & 100% crit dmg on the next shot (has a special buff sfx like mesa #1)

- shadow slide will create a "lethal gap" between ash decoy & real ash. Enemies passing through between decoy & ash will be stunned by slash dmg, dealt with finisher dmg, & bleed

- Killer instinct does lethal damage

- normal finisher have a chance of summoning 1 clone that will deal finisher to a nearby enemy

CONCLAVE PVP

MULTITOOLS TELEPORT

-Boosted jump doesnt knock down opponent deals little dmg (the usual jump dmg)

-Sommersault kick has an extended range, knocks down, steal 20% ammo on opponent, empty opponents mags.

-Shadow slide clone has a shorter duration. Clone can deal dmg as well (like mirage clones)

-Killer instinct disabled

-Normal finisher replaced with a roundhouse kick (deals little dmg) that can push opponent away.

I think thats it for now, will probably add more later

Edited October 7, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz