Do you think ash will still be a good frame after the bladestorm rework?

[EvilChaosKnight]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

Don't worry, one day u'll figure it out. But I do agree that shes little bit more complicated now than old 3 spam against 1 faction.

 

1 minute ago, Helch0rn said:

-Cast bubble

-Shoot into bubble

-Everything inside dies a horrible and painful death

-Bubble explodes

-Everything around exploding bubble turns into numbers

And those numbers have six digits

So, before we go any further. What levels do you play on? Around 100 and above I don't really have the luxury of hanging around for several (dozens of) seconds and waiting for enemies to die, esp. when they swarm about everywhere and shoot me. And since Mag has no means of active self-defence that means that she's a toast.

[ashrah]

25 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Mag and Saryn are some of the strongest frames right now. What game are you playing?

why we dont have option then to choice what version of frame we wish to play....saryn is no comment really...mag is half dead... 

[artemisfortune]

57 minutes ago, ashrah said:

why we dont have option then to choice what version of frame we wish to play....saryn is no comment really...mag is half dead... 

Because then what's the point? Lets just make every frame have 1 hit nuke abilities.

58 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

 

So, before we go any further. What levels do you play on? Around 100 and above I don't really have the luxury of hanging around for several (dozens of) seconds and waiting for enemies to die, esp. when they swarm about everywhere and shoot me. And since Mag has no means of active self-defence that means that she's a toast.

What part of the game has you fighting level 100 and above enemies consistently?

[Helch0rn]

27 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

 

So, before we go any further. What levels do you play on? Around 100 and above I don't really have the luxury of hanging around for several (dozens of) seconds and waiting for enemies to die, esp. when they swarm about everywhere and shoot me. And since Mag has no means of active self-defence that means that she's a toast.

the bubble also sucks in enemy bulltes and pulls enemies to its center

they are essentialy stuck in a death field, doomed to shoot themself

so there is no need to worry about being shot

[EvilChaosKnight]

18 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

What part of the game has you fighting level 100 and above enemies consistently?

I solo sorties.

Everything below that is a cake walk with a decent gun with formas on it regardless of the frame really. So from that position again, I shall ask. What Mag brings to the table here to be considered "one of the most powerful"? And which won't get you killed in seconds I might add.
Just a few examples of frames I took there with relative success.
Nyx brings CC, Nova brings CC + bonus damage + WMD which is antimatter drop, Trin brings heals, DR and energy. Even Ember brings CC and bonus damage, Inaros brings CC + instakills, Ivara brings CC + stealth + instakills, Titania is just fun as hell + decent damage, etc.

And then we have Mag with a kill sphere which takes ages and very little means to save her own skin.

[Helch0rn]

1 minute ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

And then we have Mag with a kill sphere which takes ages and very little means to save her own skin.

so Pull and Crush are no CC in your opinion?

[artemisfortune]

57 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

I solo sorties.

Everything below that is a cake walk with a decent gun with formas on it regardless of the frame really. So from that position again, I shall ask. What Mag brings to the table here to be considered "one of the most powerful"? And which won't get you killed in seconds I might add.
Just a few examples of frames I took there with relative success.
Nyx brings CC, Nova brings CC + bonus damage + WMD which is antimatter drop, Trin brings heals, DR and energy. Even Ember brings CC and bonus damage, Inaros brings CC + instakills, Ivara brings CC + stealth + instakills, Titania is just fun as hell + decent damage, etc.

And then we have Mag with a kill sphere which takes ages and very little means to save her own skin.

This isn't a solo game though. Mag isn't a solo frame.

Who cares really anyway? If you don't like her, don't use her. "Most powerful" is largely subjective anyway, getting butthurt over what someone else thinks is good is silly, which I guess I'm guilty of too.

[kaliazane]

37 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

 

So, before we go any further. What levels do you play on? Around 100 and above I don't really have the luxury of hanging around for several (dozens of) seconds and waiting for enemies to die, esp. when they swarm about everywhere and shoot me. And since Mag has no means of active self-defence that means that she's a toast.

 

She works for any level really. Magnetize will work even against 200+ enemies, paired with proper weapon anything inside that bubble will die very fast, at same time keeping them from shooting you. There is plenty of other uses for mag too, for example bere dps. Both her 4 and 3 can work for that with proper build and she can get same amount of kills saryn would. Gmag still works when it comes to energy, just use 2 energize sets and that 1 skill from zenurik and you can provide lots of energy to your party in def missions, even making  banshee perma quake with proper setup.

Shes not perfect but I could name plenty of less usefull frames.

[IceColdHawk]

Who cares about bladestorm? Smoke Screen + Fatal Teleport aka the endless scaling killing machine is where it's at. Maybe ash won't be a good nuker anymore. But he will still be a very good and scaling frame.

[Autongnosis]

35 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

I solo sorties.

Everything below that is a cake walk with a decent gun with formas on it regardless of the frame really. [...]

And then we have Mag with a kill sphere which takes ages and very little means to save her own skin.

Wat.

• Sortie almost never spawn enemies over level 100, and when that happens they're level 104-105
• Everything on the Sortie is a cakeqalk with a decent gun with formas on it regardless of frame
• How does the kill sphere takes ages exactly? Also, how does an impenetrable shield does nothing to save her own skin?

Any frame can handle Sorties just fine. Sortie are not even considerable late game compared to the humongous amount of power we can wield. Mag can handle the equivalent of hours of old T4 survival on Mot no sweat even after the nullifier buff, without resorting to stupid cheesy tricks like permainvisibility+finishers or bugged gas melee procs, or using her own bugged S#&$ like Lanka and Detron.

 

[Babellon]

yes, I think ash will be a great frame after the rework. I think ash is a great frame now. I don't rely on only one skill of any frame so changes to a given skill do not in my mind break any frame or weapon. I think it will make those who make their "storm build" will probably get upset, Those who only see one way of playing and utilizing a frame or weapon will definitely not like changes like what is coming, but yes, Ash is great, and will continue to be.

Having to learn a new way to do things isn't detrimental to the game albeit we'll definitely see plenty of threads claiming that the minute they implement it.  However those of us who've been here a while have seen those threads come and go and hey look at it, the game didn't die after all. Saryn is great I think more so than before. Parkour is awesome more so than before. Lots of changes that people  swore would be the death of Warframe and the end of Digital Extremes somehow passed on by with barely a ripple on a few forgotten threads at the bottom of a forum somewhere consigned to the void.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it's fine to be concerned as to whether Ash will be better or worse post rework, but I'm 99.9% sure that, unless DE royally screws up, the rework will make Ash more viable then ever, but without him being so easy to use that you can play with your eyes closed. I always said that he just needed what they gave to Mesa: manual targeting. they seem to be doing exactly that, so I reckon it'll be fine. Ash might appeal more to the non-Meta crowd.

[UltimateSpinDash]

If he isn't good now, he won't be better just because Bladestorm now needs to be aimed. If anything, he'll be more fun to play (or at least less annoying for his teammates). This change was long overdue though.

[coldguy111]

given by the current rework bladestorm is still going to boring as hell to play. Basically pressing four to cutscene with a few extra steps as well as slowing down gameplay. The rework hardly changes anything about ash smokescreen is still a S#&$ter invisiblity, shiruken's aim is still wonky and misses often, leaving teleport as ashes best ability. It also fails in its purpose of incentivizing players to use ashes other abilities due to a lack of synergy

[Misgenesis]

Its barely changing if no other changes are coming to pass. Its even getting its power increased.

I cant wait for the complaints about having to aim the thing. ''Wahhh i cant aim wahhh why do i have to play the game wahhh''

Edited October 23, 2016 by Misgenesis

[Nazrethim]

To me the problem with Ash's future isn't bladestorm, but it's:

A) DE did JACKSH*T for his other abilities. Shuriken has it's stupid "Lets follow a target at full health on the edge of the screen or behind me instead of the guy I'm actually aiming at" tracking. Smoke Screen is still "invisibility but sh*ttier + useless stun" and Teleport requires the augment to be good and it's useless vs enemies without finisher animations (like the swarms of ospreys clogging every single godam corpus mission) and works only half the time vs most infested, augment or not.

B) DE won't ever touch Ash again after that, they will just leave him to rot.

 

Oh, and Blade Storm spam could have been easily solved by removing Fleeting Expertise and nerfing EV.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Nazrethim

[VaykorKek]

Will he be good? yes.

Will he be fun? finally, yes.

Will he be better? no one knows, but my thoughts are yes.

[AzureTerra]

Yes, but it will be like after the Saryn rework. Endless threads of people who cant cope with change being unable to play the frame anymore to their exacting needs and whining on here for months. A little bit of skill needed will sort the wheat from the chaff.

[Eldnacpeek]

11 hours ago, ashrah said:

lets hope its will not be reworked like mag and saryn

 

Keep in mind this is just for Blade Storm; current knowledge states they're not touching the other three.

Edited October 23, 2016 by LazerSkink

[Dragazer]

It's a straight up nerf no matter how you look at it, from needing LoS, and the time it now takes to mark enemies. 

It doesn't look like DE will be changing his other abilities anytime soon as well despite them being lackluster

Shuriken is pretty useless at high levels, (b4 you mention the augment, why should an augment have to fix a crappy ability?)

Smoke screen is just a garbage version of invis with animation locking you in place and lower duration

Only decent ability is teleport but would be better with free aim.

 

Pretty disappointed with whats in store, would have preferred a more in depth rework like what the other frames got, instead of just keeping things the same and then slapping on nerfs.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Dragazer

[Man_In_Suitcase]

7 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

It's a straight up nerf no matter how you look at it, from needing LoS, and the time it now takes to mark enemies. 

Dear god, a rework that actually requires the player to engage his/her's Warframe...What is the world coming to? In all seriousness though, it's high time Ash got the BS rework but what I'm really interested is if Body Count gets a nerf, since he as a aug that already extends his melee CC. Or mayhaps they'll rework Rising Storm to become less obsolete? I do hope so.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

He'll still be great.

Only thing that will change is that the people who wanted him nerfed will have 1 kill, instead of 0.

[Heckzu]

Has any of DE's works objectively made any warframe worse? No.

Following this consistency, will Ash be objectively 'bad' after only one of his abilities gets reworked? No.

[Babellon]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Smoke screen is just a garbage version of invis with animation locking you in place and lower duration

what are you talking about? I've seen this said a few times now, probably in this thread. Smoke screen doesn't lock you in place and I can get as much time out of my smoke screen as a loki can out of their invisibility. Maybe if people stopped trying to maximize damage output for blade storm and looked at duration they'd realize that. It seems the only people who don't also don't know how to use ash fully.

smoke screen is very effective, and personally I'd rather they took that stagger effect it has on mobs out of it s it tends to alert the when I cast it near a group. However that doesn't really do any harm and generally if I've smoked out which has a 12second timer for me at the moment I can usually get off bladestorm, or teleport, or just kill them manually with time left to flip around the room a few times and click it again.

I'd call this another good example of exaggerated complaints about a power set with no experience in the skills or understanding of the frame.

As to shuriken, a aim function to my cursor instead of auto aiming to an enemy it chooses would make that power a much more functional and enjoyable ability.

Teleport without the augment to auto kill is still a viable skill as it helps getting around, manually clicking swift melee attack or simply melee attack on mouse is very functional, haven't had any problems with it.

Bladestorm in its current form is a soloists death button. in that when I click it everything around me dies. I have hours of fun leaping around rooms clicking it off in mid air while smoked out and then landing, teleporting off to a mob some distance away and melee down. Ash is fun, I anticipate he will continue to be fun after the rework.

but that brings me back to the original question, why do people keep saying smoke screen is bad?

edit- just checked my stats, I get 14.30 seconds with smoke screen compared to loki 18.-- seconds...are we complaining about 3.5 seconds? even if I drop 2.5 seconds from ash duration its still perfect. I could probably get 2 more seconds if I dropped 2 more points into narrow minded and took a point out of fleeting expertise. If I really pushed it I could get 19.3 seconds duration for smoke screen, with a power cost of 32 on smoke screen.  seriously I don't see a problem here.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Babellon

[Dragazer]

30 minutes ago, Babellon said:

what are you talking about? I've seen this said a few times now, probably in this thread. Smoke screen doesn't lock you in place and I can get as much time out of my smoke screen as a loki can out of their invisibility. Maybe if people stopped trying to maximize damage output for blade storm and looked at duration they'd realize that. It seems the only people who don't also don't know how to use ash fully.

smoke screen is very effective, and personally I'd rather they took that stagger effect it has on mobs out of it s it tends to alert the when I cast it near a group. However that doesn't really do any harm and generally if I've smoked out which has a 12second timer for me at the moment I can usually get off bladestorm, or teleport, or just kill them manually with time left to flip around the room a few times and click it again.

I'd call this another good example of exaggerated complaints about a power set with no experience in the skills or understanding of the frame.

As to shuriken, a aim function to my cursor instead of auto aiming to an enemy it chooses would make that power a much more functional and enjoyable ability.

Teleport without the augment to auto kill is still a viable skill as it helps getting around, manually clicking swift melee attack or simply melee attack on mouse is very functional, haven't had any problems with it.

Bladestorm in its current form is a soloists death button. in that when I click it everything around me dies. I have hours of fun leaping around rooms clicking it off in mid air while smoked out and then landing, teleporting off to a mob some distance away and melee down. Ash is fun, I anticipate he will continue to be fun after the rework.

but that brings me back to the original question, why do people keep saying smoke screen is bad?

edit- just checked my stats, I get 14.30 seconds with smoke screen compared to loki 18.-- seconds...are we complaining about 3.5 seconds? even if I drop 2.5 seconds from ash duration its still perfect. I could probably get 2 more seconds if I dropped 2 more points into narrow minded and took a point out of fleeting expertise. seriously I don't see a problem here.

Not sure if we play the same frame but yes Smoke screen does in fact make you stop all movement for second to throw the bomb, While Loki's invis can be cast mid air while sliding with shorter animation time, you can go check the difference yourself.

Shuriken is just a worthless ability at base its a complete waste of energy at high levels when you can just use your weapons

8 seconds vs 12 seconds base makes a huge difference when mods are factored in.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Dragazer