Can we have Faster Weapon Swap speed without having to use mods as a crutch

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

I wish we could swap weapons on the fly and land multi weapon combos . That'll make warframe much more of an action game.

Currently I just stick with a powerful primary through out the map unless I run out of ammo.

I died a ton of times solo-ing conculysts and battalysts because my weapons were stuck in my warframe's buttcrack and refuses to come out quick enough. 

Not cool and extremely annoying.

Please greatly increase the weapon swap speeds.

Thanks. 

[Bronjun]

Why not one more exilus slot? 

[Calwon5]

6 minutes ago, Bronjun said:

Why not one more exilus slot? 

Because this will just complicate things, when DE can just change the speed of swapping in between weapons.

[Bronjun]

Just now, Calwon5 said:

Because this will just complicate things, when DE can just change the speed of swapping in between weapons.

Thus making all holster speed related mods useless. 

[notlamprey]

When you consider how tight space actually starts to be in terms of modding for "tougher" content and specializing to handle certain situations, it does feel a little silly having to devote a mod slot specifically to make weapon swap happen quickly enough to prevent death.

Honestly, I think it's a tough call.

When you consider the case of Speed Holster, what do you stand to lose by using that aura mod in place of another? For me, the answer is "really not all that much." Someone willing to do a whole ton of math might disagree, but I would be willing to bet that many players might actually be surprised how much they like Speed Holster if they used it some.

If you're going to argue for "making all weapon swap always be as fast as Speed Holster, and do away with the mod"... where would you stop? How many mods would DE then be under pressure to globalize and remove? I'm not saying that I like having to use Speed Holster just to get weapon swap to feel "adequate," but I don't know if we have a strong enough case to globalize and remove it altogether.

Edited November 6, 2016 by notlamprey
typo'd

[(PSN)DBR87]

5 minutes ago, Bronjun said:

Thus making all holster speed related mods useless. 

Would really like it if switching from your Primary to your secondary was extremely fast. Like a 2 seconds or less thing. And if we are being honest, no one uses Speed Holster mods in PVE. Maybe in PVP.....but....

 

EDIT: Well, apparently there is ONE guy. There is always one...

Edited November 6, 2016 by (PS4)DBR87

[Imaru]

6 minutes ago, Bronjun said:

Why not one more exilus slot? 

Probably because we only have a maximum of 78 mod capacity and that'd bring us to 10 mod slots. If we had 2 exilus slots people would probably just use 2 drift mods or something and still complain about the low weapon switch speed. 

I do think that weapon switch times need a look, as they're holdovers from basically the beginning of the game (has it been changed since then?). 

[GinKenshin]

there's a new NM mod for holstering faster, so you don't have to use the aura. there, fixed. 

seriously, if DE DOES increase the speed, then ppl will ask to remove other 'non-important' stuff. you have a mod now, not just an aura, use it and spare us >.>

[Bronjun]

2 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

When you consider how tight space actually starts to be in terms of modding for "tougher" content and specializing to handle certain situations, it does feel a little silly having to devote a mod slot specifically to make weapon swap happen quickly enough to prevent death.

Honestly, I think it's a tough call.

When you consider the case of Speed Holster, what do you stand to lose by using that aura mod in place of another? For me, the answer is "really not all that much." Someone willing to do a whole ton of math might disagree, but I would be willing to bet that many players might actually be surprised how much they like Speed Holster if they used it some.

If you're going to argue for "making all weapon swap always be as fast as Speed Holster, and do away with the mod"... where would you stop? How many mods would DE then be under pressure to globalize and remove? I'm not saying that I like having to use Speed Holster just to get weapon swap to feel "adequate," but I don't know if we have a strong enough case to globalize and remove it altogether.

http://i.imgur.com/WsowE4E.jpg 

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

Promoting faster and more fluid gameplay through faster weapon swap speeds will do wonders for an action game in my opinion. 

 

[taiiat]

why not having Weapon Swap Speed Mods that make it faster enough that it actually matters whether you use them or not?

that's the real question. 4x Speed Holster is still barely faster than none at all.

[DEADSHOT456]

1 hour ago, notlamprey said:

where would you stop? How many mods would DE then be under pressure to globalize and remove? I'm not saying that I like having to use Speed Holster just to get weapon swap to feel "adequate," but I don't know if we have a strong enough case to globalize and remove it altogether.

To be honest, DE probably should remove a whole lot of mods from the game. I haven't met a single person in these 3 and half years who uses quite a few mods.

Insulation, Lightning Rod, Warm Coat, Diamond Skin - I haven't met a single person who uses these mods.

Flame Repellent and Anti-Toxin - While I haven't met anyone who uses these two as well, there are a few who "claim" to use these two.

I don't think a lot of people will be unhappy if DE removes these mods. Chances are, majority won't even realize that these were removed from drop table. Of course, only DE has the data on how many use these mods.

Same goes for Holster speed mods. If they remove he mod and increase the base holster speed, I do not think anyone would have a problem, since, essentially, they are getting the benefit without a mod. So, I don not see how removing less used mods is a bad thing.

If anything, DE should re-visit the mods in the game. With new mods being added every now and then, the droptable is extremely diluted with useless mods. As said above, DE should remove those resistance mods and holster speed mods and should combine the effects of less used mods into moderately used mods.

For example -

1. Take Fast Deflection and Fortitude - No one in their right minds would use Fast Deflection instead of Fortitude. Fast Deflection is totally redundant. So why not just increase Fortitude's Shield recharge from 80% to 90%(while keeping the 20% KD resist) and remove Fast Deflection altogether?
2. Another is Maglev and Rush - Why not combine the effects of Maglev into Rush? Maglev is highly situational and probably only good on Nezha. So, instead of having a standalone mod, just combine it with the moderately used mod, Rush.
3. Another would be coming Rapid Resilience into Provoked. Rapid resilience is situational and Provoked is only good for Inaros tbh. So, combine them.

Edited November 6, 2016 by DEADSHOT456

[kyori]

This is totally intended.

I noticed this very early in the game during the limbo quest. It is from the time when you holster your weapon trying to pick up the fuel cell with many grineers shooting at you... and you wonder why your character is so r3tarded standing there taking such a long time to pick up a fuel cell. lol

I believe this was voiced out many times but unfortunately it is an intended feature and DE won't be changing it.

Edited November 6, 2016 by kyori

[Castle]

Yeah, i feel like this would be a good idea. Needs some workshopping, but sounds good.

[traybong111]

On 10/21/2016 at 3:30 PM, traybong111 said:

Even back in 2013 when we didn't have the speed and flow we have now, Warframe's weapon swap speed was considered pretty bad. Faster weapon swap speed has been asked pretty much since the inception of Warframe but DE has never once budged on it over 3 years. 

I don't understand why DE is so adamant on this either, faster weapon swap speed and melee holster would actually encourage players to utilize the various element combos. The slow, flow-breaking weapon swap and holster is probably one of the factors that contribute to players defaulting their weapons to corrosive 98% of the time other than armor scaling and the very clunky loadout UI that doesn't fit with the speedy drop-in drop-out nature of Warframe missions. 

I'm just starting to suspect that it's a "social experiment" to see if people will defend any stupid thing if the thing exists long enough e.g. Speed Holster. 

face 

desk 

contact

repeat

[_Vortus_]

Its not a crutch, its not a band-aid, its a mod.   Use it and improve the holster speed, or don't use and and it stays as is.   Same with other lesser used mods, just because you do not use them doesn't mean others do not.  So many times on sorties or long infested pub runs late in the game the tears start about infested toxic procs.  Yet my frame with anti toxin and rapid resilience is having no issues.  Same thing against Grineer and their assorted flame units with flame repellent and rapid resilience.  The system, at least this one, is fine like it is.  

[DEADSHOT456]

33 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Same with other lesser used mods, just because you do not use them doesn't mean others do not.

And how does removing Speed Holster and increasing the base holster speed affect you negatively?

If anything, its better because now you get the benefit of Speed Holster without using the mod.

So for once, maybe understand what is going on in the thread.

And by your logic, DE should not remove mandatory damage mods because everyone uses them, right?

[_Vortus_]

1 minute ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

And how does removing Speed Holster and increasing the base holster speed affect you negatively?

If anything, its better because now you get the benefit of Speed Holster without using the mod.

So for once, maybe understand what is going on in the thread.

And by your logic, DE should not remove mandatory damage mods because everyone uses them, right?

It changes the game to me in a negative way, simplifying the already oversimplified tactics in the game.   I want to swap weapons, I try to find a way to do so safely.  If I cannot, I should have planned better and accept the consequences.   Remove that and now I just do it on the fly without risk..   Easier, yeah, kinda like Duplo compared to Technics.   About as much fun as well.   I do understand whats going on on the thread.  
Good choice for comparison.   As they are not mandatory, well, maybe for you, not to me.  Just for an example, no need for them on low tier missions allowing  players to use other mods.   You know, the ones you don't use?    So how about understanding not everyone thinks the same as you do.

[Vastarov]

Nope. The "crutch" mods are there for that specific reason: giving you and edge in switching weapons while relinquishing some powercreep.
It's a "quality of life" kinda choice.

[DEADSHOT456]

18 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

It changes the game to me in a negative way, simplifying the already oversimplified tactics in the game.

Swapping weapons is tactics?

Ok, I am stopping at this point. Come back with better arguments that makes sense.

Fun fact - If you do not want simplified tactics, then you should not complain about the removal of Flame Repellent and Anti-toxin. Because you know, they too simplify the over-simplified tactics of "rolling" to avoid damage.

You are contradicting yourself right there. Well done.

[alfaomega04]

Have to reply on this thread again and hope it actually gets noticed this time (not holding my breath, though). 

As of now, every single one of my secondaries is pretty much utility since 98% of the time only the primary will be used, or a quick melee here and there. Is not that secondaries are not good enough, it simply boils down that in such a fast paced game, the swap speed really kills any incentive to go from primary to secondary. 

The only other option left when it comes to using secondaries is when people equip a secondary that is on par with best primaries and then they just use that and, in turn, the primary becomes the utility weapon without any real use. This became extremely obvious when the synoid gammacor first released, which everyone used as a main weapon and the primary was never really used. 

It would be extremely rewarding if I could bullet jump into a glide and unload a full hek clip onto the heavies, do quick switch to my furis and just spray everything below, THEN land, reload both weapons while doing another bullet jump and continue wreaking mayhem. Right now, my melee takes the role of cleaning up smaller mobs while my secondary sits permanently in its holster just gathering more dust. 

[DeadScream]

I need faster swap speed. Posted a thread about it like few weeks ago, was moved to general feedback and then ignored by community :B

I hope DE notices the real issue. They bring more and more enemy units who promote adaptation, but as soon as we need to adapt we take an eternity to swap our weapon, or we are condemned to quick-melee because entering stance mode takes ages. 

Vauban can lock everything in place before anyone has enough time to take a secondary, that kind of thing should be fixed imho. 

 

Faster swap speed would bring less tedious fights against Sentient units, a possible utility to bringing a Sniper rifle, and then a better build and loadouts variety within the community.

[Marvelous_A]

There is a challenge which requires you to kill an enemy with all 3 weapons within 5s. The swapping already takes you 3s. 

[_Vortus_]

1 hour ago, DEADSHOT456 said:

Swapping weapons is tactics?

Ok, I am stopping at this point. Come back with better arguments that makes sense.

Fun fact - If you do not want simplified tactics, then you should not complain about the removal of Flame Repellent and Anti-toxin. Because you know, they too simplify the over-simplified tactics of "rolling" to avoid damage.

You are contradicting yourself right there. Well done.

So moving to a safe area to swap rather than stand their and get shot isn't tactics.... Yeah, a good time to stop as apparently you don't recognize your loadout as part of tactics as well.   So thats pretty much all that needs said, well done indeed.  

[LSG501]

5 hours ago, Bronjun said:

Why not one more exilus slot? 

because people have been asking for augment slots and we haven't got that.... so the odds of another exilus slot are slim..

 

Personally I would like the entire weapon mechanics looking at. 

Swapping weapons takes too long (needs halfing imo), reloading some weapons takes far too long (soma prime for example) and reloading a primary/secondary restarts if you need to melee during the animation sequence (even if the ammo has been ejected already).  Then there's the simple fact that some weapons are only worth having as MR fodder because they just don't do enough damage or are too slow to use in a faster paced game. 

 

_Vortus_ it's all very well saying go to 'safe spot' to reload but that isn't always possible in confined spaces or on certain levels where the enemy follows you...