Commanders need to be reworked

[AdunSaveMe]

Pretty sure we've given plenty of feedback as to why they're one of the most poorly designed enemies in the game. 
Does nobody at DE seem to think this is a problem?

The switch teleport is UNAVOIDABLE. You can get teleported into a group of enemies completely out of your control and die instantly, with no way to counter it, because they can do it to you through terrain before you even know they exist. I've even been switch teleported by one, then teleported by it again five seconds later, so the apparent cooldown is clearly broken as well.

It's an awful, anti-skill, zero-challenge unit. There is no reason for it to exist like this.

Edited November 8, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[GinKenshin]

how did they get a warframe ability in the first place? O.o 

[TARINunit9]

When Commanders were first released, they were detrimental to their own men, because SwitchTele had no stunning effect on players. It should have been obvious here that no, this enemy concept simply would not work. But no... So DE sloppily patched them with this super annoying stun effect that IGNORES LINE OF SIGHT

[(XBOX)B1ueKarou]

I agree with all of you; poor implementation aside, however, i'm absolutely in LOVE with the lore of the WF universe and theres no way to feasably explain how they can teleport. my grievance there is trivial at the moment because their mechanic is OP. i'm not going to pretend like i know the answer on how to better the role of the commander in our beloved game, nor am i going to say that just because i've died at the hands of one it should be nerfed, but the use of its abilities should fit snugly with the way that all Grineer combatants work. on drops a portable cover, one uses heavy artillery, and another is aerial support... a commander should command HIS troops, not his enemies' troops. why isnt the commander like the infested Ancients? that makes sense to me, i mean a military leader, in most modern militaries, is rarely out in the field and is usually most portrayed as an inspirational figure; someone to rally the fire of their subordinates... i dunno, those are just my thoughts

[TARINunit9]

7 minutes ago, Nexecute said:

They throw a flashbang just like they'd do with a grenade, blinding players looking in its general direction. This blind would wear off over around 6 seconds. The commander will then immediately have all grineer play super aggressively until the blind completely wears off.

I like this. The mechanic is already in use by Denial Bursas, so it wouldn't even be hard. Putting it in grenade form would even give attentive players some counterplay options

[AdunSaveMe]

29 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I like this. The mechanic is already in use by Denial Bursas, so it wouldn't even be hard. Putting it in grenade form would even give attentive players some counterplay options

As long as they're actually somewhat visible without a microscope, unlike current grenades.

[ligonare]

I don't mind the switch teleport if we did not lose control of our warframe after the teleport. Right now, i can only facepalm when my warframe looks around at his surroundings like an imbecile while getting pummeled by melee + gunfire.

If I can regain full awareness and recovery after being ST in Conclave Pvp, I do not see why i can't do so in PvE.

Fix this.

[Volinus7]

They may think "It's not a problem if most players can endure it".

Sophisticated AI is troublesome to make, cheesy abilities are easier.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

16 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

They may think "It's not a problem if most players can endure it".

Sophisticated AI is troublesome to make, cheesy abilities are easier.

That is quite possibly one of the worst design philosophies I have ever heard. That is how you quickly ruin a game and prevent it from being any form of challenge or fun, as all cheese does is trivialises all game content (either ours or the enemies) and removes any form of challenge in the game

[Angrados]

18 minutes ago, Ninjaboy00 said:

That is quite possibly one of the worst design philosophies I have ever heard. That is how you quickly ruin a game and prevent it from being any form of challenge or fun, as all cheese does is trivialises all game content (either ours or the enemies) and removes any form of challenge in the game

Finding that balance is very much a WIP. We'll see what the next big update brings, in terms of both fixes and problems... Hopefully they'll put the brakes on a bit and start doing some much-needed tweaking to the game.

[tsubasakuroi]

More than two years now and still no change.

I personally find the idea of the Commander actually emphasizing target prioritization more fitting. Till then I'd be happy enough with the simplest solution of just outright removing the ST animation stun that enemies can do on us

 

 

[AdunSaveMe]

24 minutes ago, tsubasakuroi said:

More than two years now and still no change.

I personally find the idea of the Commander actually emphasizing target prioritization more fitting. Till then I'd be happy enough with the simplest solution of just outright removing the ST animation stun that enemies can do on us

 

 

It's not just the stun. It's the lack of line of sight, AND the lack of counterplay, AND the downright blandness of the ability.

[motorfirebox]

Commanders definitely need reworked, if only because the tactical value of their teleport switch is... extremely questionable. "Look, a group of insanely badass murdergolems! I'm gonna pull one of them over here... and put myself right in the midst of the other three, alone! By myself! With no backup! Muahahah—" *slash, cut, stab, faceshoot*

Edited November 8, 2016 by motorfirebox

[_Vortus_]

Yeah, lets just remove all remotely interesting enemies with anything that gives Tenno issues. 

Last I checked enemies have no chance to roll off a lokis switch teleport.   Or roll out of a limbo's rift.   Or jump away from a  ash's bladestorm attack.   Why should tenno be able to do the same to a skill based attack?   

Commanders need buffed with something like a manic attack onto switch teleport targets.    Something to increase their worth.   Maybe have all enemies in the squad concentrate fire on the switched target.

Edited November 8, 2016 by _Vortus_
hit post to soon,

[AdunSaveMe]

7 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Yeah, lets just remove all remotely interesting enemies

Come back when I actually complain about one of those. Also, nice strawman.

The idea that enemies should be able to do what players can do in a horde-based game such as this is just silly. That's not really how it works in most videogames that currently exist. Because it's silly.

7 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

a skill based attack

What? Where?

Is it behind the unavoidable, uncounterable and unstoppable ability that isn't skill-based at all?

Edited November 8, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[_Vortus_]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

Come back when I actually complain about one of those.

Hehe, this happens alot.   Just because you don't like something does not mean everyone feels the same.    I like commanders, though I think they need buffed.   Also find their mechanic interesting.   Has presented some fun holy crap moments in the past for me.   

Anything in this game that has the slightest chance of being a danger to Tenno is cause for a thread to remove or change it.     Still waiting for the Grineer need armed with bean bag weapons and nerf (the brand not the action) simulated weapons as Tenno Lives Matter.  You could always complain that the switch teleport is impinging on Tenno's exclusive powers and is wrong due it being cultural appropriation.    It's coming I am sure.

So think I am gonna pull up a chair and shoot the breeze with ya right here.

[AdunSaveMe]

17 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Hehe, this happens alot.   Just because you don't like something does not mean everyone feels the same.    I like commanders, though I think they need buffed.   Also find their mechanic interesting.   Has presented some fun holy crap moments in the past for me.   

That works both ways. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's fine.

I like a three legged cat that my friend has, that doesn't mean it's good at running.

17 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Anything in this game that has the slightest chance of being a danger to Tenno is cause for a thread to remove or change it.

This is false. The majority of those threads say WHY something is wrong. The people who make comments like "oh people just want anything dangerous removed" are the people who either don't bother to read the arguments made for that point, or they simply can't come up with any counter-arguments in response. Obviously all of it is opinion, but your opinion being different does not give you the right to act like everyone else is complaining about nothing, nor does it make your claim that people want everything threatening removed accurate.

You're not even making an argument at this point. I don't know why I bother.

Edited November 8, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[blackheartstar_pc]

2 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

Yeah, lets just remove all remotely interesting enemies with anything that gives Tenno issues.

About what what it boils down to any of these let's change or remove "insert enemy here" because I can't handle or just plain dislike it. Guess it's fresh to see one not focused on Nullifiers.

[rockscl]

You have my upvote, but get ready to read some of the stupidest arguments used in this forum, everytime a tenno asks for changing commanders 2 other tenno get out of their fox hole eager to tell you to get gud

[AdunSaveMe]

28 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

About what what it boils down to any of these let's change or remove "insert enemy here" because I can't handle or just plain dislike it.

This isn't an argument either. You can't just bring out that "people who complain just can't handle it" line and expect people to take you seriously. Try actually arguing the point instead of making some silly baseless assumption.

Just because people criticise enemy design doesn't mean they can't deal with it. That's not an argument. You haven't made any points or rebuttals. It's just another meaningless 'git gud' comment.

Edited November 8, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[LuckyCharm]

Instead of teleport stunning you and swapping positions... Why not have them raise a directional shield (like volts shield) and buff allies near him. I mean he is a commander after all, in a battle sense it'd be silly to jump into a gunfight first as a commander of a squad. Who'd give the orders. 

[_Vortus_]

1 hour ago, AdunSaveMe said:

That works both ways. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's fine.

I like a three legged cat that my friend has, that doesn't mean it's good at running.

This is false. The majority of those threads say WHY something is wrong. The people who make comments like "oh people just want anything dangerous removed" are the people who either don't bother to read the arguments made for that point, or they simply can't come up with any counter-arguments in response. Obviously all of it is opinion, but your opinion being different does not give you the right to act like everyone else is complaining about nothing, nor does it make your claim that people want everything threatening removed accurate.

You're not even making an argument at this point. I don't know why I bother.

Straw man vs Circular I guess.   Seen three legged animals run just fine, faster than me, so good at running is a point of view.   Who doesn't like three legged critters?   They are survivors.

Maybe we don't read the same threads.  Most say why they THINK something is wrong.  Some of the threads asking for a change I agree with, some I do not.  Pretty sure I said I like the mechanic they have now so that is kinda all the argument I need as this is a discussion based on our opinions of the game.   But as to my other reasoning as to why I like it.    In the time amount of time Tenno have been facing the assorted enemies we have, surely they would have had ample time to reverse engineer how the Tenno tick.  If not entirely, partially at any rate.  Am not surprised at all to see enemy units using Tenno powers or abilities at counter Tenno powers.  I rather enjoy when they do have those sort of things. Enemies you have to run from and ambush, enemies you have to carefully stalk, or that take you by surprise.   More of those please.   The commander is one of those surprise units.   Most of the time it really doesn't affect much, its more of a disadvantage to the Grineer (hence I also said they needed buffed).    But every once in a while they catch me when wounded, or a weak frame and pull me into a mass of pissed off clones.   Most times I win, either way, win or lose, that frantic few seconds is a glorious battle.  You disagree, am fine with that too.  

[Xzorn]

Most Broken Enemies in terms of Scaling:  Commanders, Scorchers, Napalms, Bursa,, Nullifiers, Toxic Ancient, All hit-scan weaponry

 

DE wants players to experience map diversity but I don't know if they realize why players don't do endless missions against other factions anymore.

In the Void one of the most dangerous enemies is actually the Detron Crewman. Once you go lvl 300+ a single pellet from his gun can one shot some frames at max distance and the pellets fill your screen but at least you can deal with that.  Most these other enemies break by lvl 80.

Enemy damage scaling has been the longest running problem in Warframe history. 

Commanders are just a symptom of the problem... Not to mention they're just dumb design.

[AdunSaveMe]

39 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Commanders are just a symptom of the problem... Not to mention they're just dumb design.

Commanders aren't the victim of a scaling problem. Scaling in general is a problem for everything but commanders are a problem at a basic level. Everything about them is bad. Fixing them is a huge step towards improving the game in general, that's how rubbish they are.

Edited November 8, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Xzorn]

20 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Commanders aren't the victim of a scaling problem. Scaling in general is a problem for everything but commanders are a problem at a basic level. Everything about them is bad. Fixing them is a huge step towards improving the game in general, that's how rubbish they are.

 

Except Commanders aren't that common so it's not a big step towards improving the game. It's quite small.

Fixing the way enemy damage output scales would be a huge step to improve the game. What's the point in balancing an enemy on a busted system?

Doing things in the wrong order is why we have problems every time they add or rework an enemy. Their mechanic needs to be changed but the reason it's so completely unfair is by lvl 80 they have an unavoidable instant cast around walls that will kill most frames. They're not a problem at lvl 30 because you can take the damage. It's ultimately a scaling issue attached to a dumb ability.