Who Else Wants A Synoid Simulor NERF?

[Sasquatchias]

59 minutes ago, LittleArachnid said:

Think what you will of it, I've put a few forma and optimised my simulor for high damage and that's what I've seen from using it.

Personally I've seen them (and even did so myself a few times) destroy even the toughest of enemies on high level Sorties with fairly decent ease compared to other weapons.

[Sasquatchias]

Honestly I think the Synoid Simulor (and it's predecessor) need a rework - I think the current way it works means that straight damage nerfs will leave it as another gimmicky and weak weapon, but leaving it as it is right now will allow it to continue being a room-clearing weapon where you just have to shoot in the general direction of a floating energy ball to rack up loads of kills for minimal effort.

 

I think the current design could stay as something like a high ammo-costing Alt-Fire (giving it a trade-off for it's potential damage), but the regular fire could be changed to something like a continuous beam (similar to things like the Gammacor) befitting other "Cephalon-esque" weapons.

[Slaviar]

I don't really care how much it trivializes the game. There's always some combo broken to hell and back. Spamming Angstrum/Penta on ODD... Hehe, old times.

What I care about is how it changes majority of game into waiting/walking simulator. With addition of most infuriating sound in Warframe

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Yeah, balance needs to happen...

It's stupid that DE think it was imperative to nerf bladestorm, yet it's pefectly fine to leave Simulor, Sonicor, World on Fire, Hall of Mirrors in.

I've been seeing more and more Synoid Simulor users lately, usuallly they combine it with Hall of Mirror Mirage or World on FIre Ember, killing litterally everything in their wake while the rest of the team hunts for the few stragglers that aren't instantly killed by their billion vortexes.

Likewise, as much as I love and use Sonicor, the fact is you can just speedrun the whole map unloading clips after clip in the general direction of enemy groups and watch everything die and every crate and pot explode giving you loot.

I'm also sick of world on fire. Again, some people complained about bladestorm, but it was limited to 18 targets at a time, took a long time to cast and forced Ash to be stationnary, in effect making it impossible to speedrun... In contrast , world on fire is aways on, killing enemies all over the map with no effort and leaving scraps for the rest of the team.

For so long I was a bow user... I would get way more kills using bows than people using automatic weapons and launchers and stuff.

Nowadays, it's near impossible to use bows or other single target weapons in  public games... It's just people running and opening vortex all over the place, blowing everything to pieces. You end a mission , and you see that the simulor mirage has dealth 75% of the damage and kills, and you're like... Man, that sucks.

Edited December 1, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[low1991]

On 11/28/2016 at 3:43 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

Mirage is a different story possibly, but any weapon + Mirage can be crazy powerful... Simulor is just the flavor of the month. 

let's nerf Mirage'#1 to oblivion. Make it that clones do not fire projectiles! And all loss in additional damage suppose to be dealt by clones to be transfer to Mirage (not clones/player) in form of a straight up damage buff.

[DreamsmithJane]

8 hours ago, LittleArachnid said:

Think what you will of it, I've put a few forma and optimised my simulor for high damage and that's what I've seen from using it.

But...you used Split Chamber, and relied on vortexes for damage. I'm telling you that's not optimised.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

the only good thing about Synoid Simulor is the MR12 requirement rotfl.

 

[Darkmatt3r]

another one of those posts, IF you dont like people using a weapon, dont play in pub . just play with your friends that you know & ask them not to use the simulor .if they use it for their entertainment u cant stop them, then why come to to forum & cry about it where a vast majority of people like simulor ? 

[THeMooN85]

29 minutes ago, Darkmatt3r said:

another one of those posts, IF you dont like people using a weapon, dont play in pub . just play with your friends that you know & ask them not to use the simulor .if they use it for their entertainment u cant stop them, then why come to to forum & cry about it where a vast majority of people like simulor ? 

THIS.

 

And yes, nerf Tonkor too, nerf RIVEN MODS, nerf Primed Mods, and so on... so no one can have their OP wep for sortie or raids... lets all use Braton/Burston instead.

[DreamsmithJane]

1 hour ago, Darkmatt3r said:

another one of those posts, IF you dont like people using a weapon, dont play in pub . just play with your friends that you know & ask them not to use the simulor .if they use it for their entertainment u cant stop them, then why come to to forum & cry about it where a vast majority of people like simulor ? 

A significant minority of people like the Simulor, but actually, the majority really doesn't. That's why there are so many of these threads. Something that's creating a negative experience for more players than are actually enjoying it needs to be changed.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

The best way to enjoy this game is to play with friends so you can set up the squad load outs. If you go to a pub game, you can expect anything and if you think about it, it is up to each gamer how they want to play.

I dont go to a públic game with a Mirage + Syn simulor and run to the extraction OR if I want to do that, I play solo. The syn simulor is strong at lower levels and needs buffs like Mirage to handle higher level armored targets for instance. Spawn a level 140 HG in Simulacrum and see that several weapons can kill him faster.

At medium levels, Mirage can have the same effect with several weapons like Ignis, amprex, or you can have a properly modded Banshee with ignis, a speed volt spinning your favorite long range melee, ember WOF spamming accelarant, Toxic Lash Saryn + spores, Zephyr turbulance Tonkor, etc...

Guess Mirage + Syn simulor is just the most famous "Cheese lower levels"  mechanics but there are so many...

Edited December 1, 2016 by (PS4)lhbuch

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

It's stupid that DE think it was imperative to nerf bladestorm, yet it's pefectly fine to leave Simulor, Sonicor, World on Fire, Hall of Mirrors in.

I'm also sick of world on fire. Again, some people complained about bladestorm, but it was limited to 18 targets at a time, took a long time to cast and forced Ash to be stationnary, in effect making it impossible to speedrun... In contrast , world on fire is aways on, killing enemies all over the map with no effort and leaving scraps for the rest of the team.

It's stupid that you think World on Fire is anything close to being on the same level as any of those.

You know how many targets WoF is limited to at a time? Three. Have you ever played Ember on a Corpus tile with a couple of inactive turrets around? They're invulnerable, but valid targets. You literally don't hit a single enemy because your WoF is trying to tick on something literally impossible to damage.

You know what you can do to targets being burned by someone's WoF? Damage them. Meanwhile, there's always an Ash dancing on the head of a Parasitic Ancient Disruptor Eximus, doing no damage while stopping anyone else from killing it, so it's free to just passively sap everyone's energy. That's a problem.

I'd wager the real culprit for any Embers instakilling large areas at any levels over ~30-35 is energy restores. Because, let me tell you, I have my Ember built up for permanent WoF at a good range and it sure as hell doesn't have 299% power strength if I want to keep that 0.75 energy per second drain (and also have some survivability mods to not instantly disintegrate from enemy #4 or anything in range of a Nullifier or protective Ancient). But, I'm sure your much-maligned experiences had an inefficient, power-heavier build, the limitation of which they simply remove by spamming energy restores instead of having to build up and maintain their energy while using their 'overwhelming' power.

Meanwhile, outside of the occasionally hilarious, often vexing Disruptor problem, Ash spent 25 energy and claimed the whole map as his own personal killzone up to Sortie levels and probably beyond.

 

All of this from the perspective of someone who does have the common courtesy not to use that permanent WoF in a low-level public group. Can solo with zero effort, do solo. The exception being relic runs from recruitment chat - odds are people want to get that run out ASAP so they can do another / get back to farming what they need for another if the piece they're looking for doesn't show. Random, especially lower tier fissure runs, though? Nope. Might be some newer players in there looking to experience the game as they progress.

3 hours ago, Darkmatt3r said:

another one of those posts, IF you dont like people using a weapon, dont play in pub . just play with your friends that you know & ask them not to use the simulor .if they use it for their entertainment u cant stop them, then why come to to forum & cry about it where a vast majority of people like simulor ? 

Turns out we all play a game to be entertained. The problem is that SySim spammers limit the agency of everyone else in the squad.

No, it's not permissible to say that those players should go private or play solo. The function of public matchmaking is to give everyone the chance to work together. Not to let one person remove the ability for three others to play the game.

The same argument works better in reverse. You know your weapon clears everything forever without leaving anything for anyone else, so it's your responsibility not to inflict that on anyone who hasn't directly consented. That means you go private or solo.

 

When you can't be trusted to keep your all-encompassing obstructive gameplay to yourself, and other players have, by your own admissions, no right to impose a restriction on your gameplay either, then the imbalanced tool that restricts the gameplay of others that you are using must be changed.

 

Limbos could remove the ability for people to play. It's not permissible to say people have to suffer the possibility of players doing that to them or they are not allowed to use public matchmaking. So that's why Banish is removable by rolling now.

Mirages could cheaply, forcibly and permanently CC the entire spawn count of single-tile missions, with no agency of the rest of the squad to prevent this from happening. So Prism was given line-of-sight to make it less utterly restrictive.

We have Resonant Banshees doing the same thing as the old Mirage Prism.. but again, that's an energy economy problem. It's too easy to throw down restores to keep doing that - but Prism was a static cost that still allowed all regeneration sources, not even needing those to work (Zenurik focus pretty much covered the cost between casts post-Second Dream).

Edited December 1, 2016 by EDYinnit

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

mirage is squesshy tho..

[Guest]

Quote

"but shared exp from the synoid simulor is the only, bestest, fastest way to level up my own primary..."

 

[Fast_98]

On 01/12/2016 at 2:10 AM, DreamsmithJane said:

A significant minority of people like the Simulor, but actually, the majority really doesn't. That's why there are so many of these threads. Something that's creating a negative experience for more players than are actually enjoying it needs to be changed.

Sorry to ask but where are you getting those number so far we only know that it the most used weapon as DE has told us but we have no numbers for like or dislike? 

Plus if you go to any high level mission with simulor (no mirage) and play offensively it actually pretty balanced because 1 your range is 12m or something and 2 it has delay (orbs have to merge) so prepare to run and jump around like crazy. This is more of the case that mirage is taking away all it drawbacks away and making it op.

Plus $20 bucks say that if it gets nerfed mirage amprex will be meta.

[Magneu]

3 hours ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

mirage is squesshy tho..

SySim spam constantly knocks back/staggers enemies. Adding in a sprint/bullet jump and you're not likely to go down, not even counting the survivability from enemies aiming at the clones. Squishiness doesn't change how annoying/OP  the weapon itself is.

[Nox_Terminus]

The actual issue with synoid simulor spam is the fact that hall of mirrors' duplicates fire them in a wider spread dealing increased damage and expanding the overall AOE effect. If anything hall of mirrors needs to be tweaked.

[TheLexiConArtist]

• Team A: "Mirage/SySim are fine, noobs need to git gud if I don't leave them anything to fight"
• Teams B & C: "Mirage with SySim is broken."
  • B: "Change Mirage, she'll move down the line to the next AOE weapon of choice anyway"
  • C: "Change SySim, it's braindead and gives all the reward for no risks or drawbacks of note"

Instead of Teams B and C trying to convince each other they're right, how about you just say both could do with looking at for cutting down exploitative and disproportionate strengths and synergies, instead of one or the other being martyred to permit its counterpart?

 

Synoid Simulor is broken. It needs appropriate drawbacks for its inherently disengaging usage (read: effectively no aiming), whether that's by reining in damage, AOE radius, or affecting other statistics of the weapon to limit the viability of sheer W+M1 success at anything other than low levels. Giving it 'special' ammo class to reduce the natural (spam-friendly) ammo replenishment, or reducing the raw firerate, could also adequately curtail the weapon's over-effectiveness in its abuse case.

Mirage may also be broken. Multiplicative damage boosters are no new entity (Chroma self-buff builds come to mind), but potential exploit cases of duplicating damage sources (multiple projectiles and beams, hitscan not really so much) should be carefully assessed and changes made to functionality if it allows 'more for less'. Chroma has to charge up with taking damage (and not dying) after casting buffs - Mirage pushes her ability button and is placed instantly at full capacity. Potential gains should reflect that. Do they? I can't say myself, since I don't personally roll with either build. DE can investigate better than I can. As long as they don't ignore secondary benefits - more factors than just straight damage numbers matter.

Edited December 4, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Zookes]

No, the Simulor is not "broken" as you say because it has a place and is not universal. It is effective for killing many low level units very quickly, and it is handy like this. Such powerful things are important tools for veterans who have played the same missions so many times that bothering even to aim at the enemies feels like wasted effort for the rewards.

Note tho the simulor is not so good for mid and final sorties where the damage is not big enough using even the best-fit builds, and other weapons like the Tonkor, Hek, and Tigris are better suited. The simulor does also nothing to units under Arctic Eximus shields and cannot destroy the shield, and this can be fatal in eximus strongholds to any wishing to use it there.

For bigger problems of trivializing content tho, there are Banshee builds using Resonating Quake that destroy defense and interception missions to the point of having true AFK farming, and I think this requires correcting before ruining the simulor even more for bad reasons.

 

You say Mirage+Sim makes one player play around while others watch? There is still effort to build and use this combo, and I think it is very fun to fly around levels and do this thing as a reward for finally having it. Especially since the parkour system is so satisfying. I say let the watchers aspire to dance and dispatch things so easily! Let them despair and think also when they learn it cannot be like this in sorties. Such is the fun of unlocks and discovery of increasingly higher level content. The simulor was nerfed already to reduce damage potential, and such a result is to place it in the role as a scythe to reap the lower levels of easy loot and to show off to players aspiring to do the same. It makes the game easy many times, but does not make it AFK-mode. Limits of range and utility assure this.

Banshee+Reso Quake tho makes one player press 4 while others do equally nothing. No effort is there. No fun. It is waiting only for all players to collect loot between waves. This was a problem of Ash and Mirage also, tho is now fixed. From such trends, I expect DE to examine this first before more nerfs to simulor, as they seem to have placed it where they - and I and others also - like to have it.

Let us be positive that new kinds of content will dictate the role of simulor in the future. Maybe Damage 3.0 will homogenize damage output and do as you desire to make it a boring gimmicky weapon? Tho while you are happy for this regardless, I expect the positive trade-off for such nerfing to be significant because I currently do not enjoy playing the same low level missions so many times to collect relics and focus when I have nothing else to progress, and the simulor makes this actually fun for me.

[TheLexiConArtist]

24 minutes ago, Zookes said:

No, the Simulor is not "broken" as you say because it has a place and is not universal. It is effective for killing many low level units very quickly, and it is handy like this. Such powerful things are important tools for veterans who have played the same missions so many times that bothering even to aim at the enemies feels like wasted effort for the rewards.

Note tho the simulor is not so good for mid and final sorties where the damage is not big enough using even the best-fit builds, and other weapons like the Tonkor, Hek, and Tigris are better suited. The simulor does also nothing to units under Arctic Eximus shields and cannot destroy the shield, and this can be fatal in eximus strongholds to any wishing to use it there.

Which is why Sortie missions feature Synoid Simulor users capping out the damage and/or kills with relative ease compared to other options. 50% of the damage of a Launcher weapon per orb combination, with 300% of the radius and superior fire rate and reload downtime statistics, turns out, doesn't even need Mirage to set it off into the stratosphere. Any warframe with the capacity to improve damage will accomplish this. Mirage just happens to exploitatively double-synergise because of the particular mechanic.

 

It can outstrip many other options on an elemental enhancement Sortie, which is by design not meant to be the case, given it's purely elemental (and Enhancements give blanket resistances to all Physical / all Elemental types). Don't compare to its sisters in the Powercreep Prime category, compare it to the 200+ other weapons that still exist.

24 minutes ago, Zookes said:

For bigger problems of trivializing content tho, there are Banshee builds using Resonating Quake that destroy defense and interception missions to the point of having true AFK farming, and I think this requires correcting before ruining the simulor even more for bad reasons.

--

Banshee+Reso Quake tho makes one player press 4 while others do equally nothing. No effort is there. No fun. It is waiting only for all players to collect loot between waves. This was a problem of Ash and Mirage also, tho is now fixed. From such trends, I expect DE to examine this first before more nerfs to simulor, as they seem to have placed it where they - and I and others also - like to have it.

This is true, it's Prism Mirage before the Line of Sight change with a less convenient energy economy. Still broken, still does basically that. However, a build ruining two mission types doesn't invalidate a Warframe and/or Weapon that ruins several other mission types (and sometimes even also the same ones). It's easy to fly around spamfiring a S.Simulor and basically clear an entire single-tile map almost completely by yourself, because you don't need to actually find what you're shooting at.

37 minutes ago, Zookes said:

You say Mirage+Sim makes one player play around while others watch? There is still effort to build and use this combo, and I think it is very fun to fly around levels and do this thing as a reward for finally having it. Especially since the parkour system is so satisfying. I say let the watchers aspire to dance and dispatch things so easily! Let them despair and think also when they learn it cannot be like this in sorties. Such is the fun of unlocks and discovery of increasingly higher level content.

Basic Warframe building 101 + basic weapon modding 101 will make the Mirage/Simulor combination absurdly powerful. Also, there's this cool invention called the Internet which removes "effort" from putting together a build.

 

I have almost everything in the game. Including Mirage, the Tonkor and Synoid Simulor. What am I aspiring to? I could easily be a degenerate as well, and throw my plethora of maxed mods into those items to do that.

But I'd rather play something I find fun.

I like bows. No, I don't want to kill all the enemies personally if I'm grouping, but when Timmy, Power Gamer rolls in with his near-instant AOE room-clear, like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor, my gameplay is being directly harmed. I have to aim a projectile with traveltime and an arc, most often at heads to do the job once in Sortie levels, and therefore I shoot two enemies at most (not counting punch-through) before the other twenty or more die from someone putting significantly less effort into it. That's not because I haven't modded well. That's not because I'm not good. Their weapons just have far fewer drawbacks for far greater, easier to access reward.

 

Do you think a new player enjoys wandering around in a mission's map with absolutely nothing with which they can engage? No.

37 minutes ago, Zookes said:

The simulor was nerfed already to reduce damage potential, and such a result is to place it in the role as a scythe to reap the lower levels of easy loot and to show off to players aspiring to do the same. It makes the game easy many times, but does not make it AFK-mode. Limits of range and utility assure this.

False. The Synoid Simulor has received no nerfs. The Tonkor has received no nerfs. Radial 'explosion' damage was incorrectly targeting an upper location of any given target, which resulted in automatic headshots on most humanoid units (and reduced/zero damage to Bursas/Juggernauts). This was a bug and was fixed; it reduced the damage of all radial effects that shared that code. Syndicate procs, Launchers, Simulors, hell I'm pretty sure even Nyx's Absorb explosion.

The statistics are the same. Yet the weapons still overperform.

37 minutes ago, Zookes said:

Let us be positive that new kinds of content will dictate the role of simulor in the future. Maybe Damage 3.0 will homogenize damage output and do as you desire to make it a boring gimmicky weapon? Tho while you are happy for this regardless, I expect the positive trade-off for such nerfing to be significant because I currently do not enjoy playing the same low level missions so many times to collect relics and focus when I have nothing else to progress, and the simulor makes this actually fun for me.

If player weapons are appropriately balanced overall as such that level 100 enemies en masse are difficult to impossible, DE is unlikely to put content so far up. Conversely, if they're imbalanced such that some weapons make dealing with such enemies reasonably manageable or outright easy, then regardless that most weapons will struggle greatly, the content must be at least this far up in order to attempt to instill some modicum of challenge.

 

I'm not going to lie, you don't entirely seem like the problem type. The type that ruins a public matchmade game with MR2-4 players in it, leaving them stood bored with literally nothing to even TRY to shoot at, and when challenged for doing so tells them they have "access to everything just the same" as that MR22 with all maxed mods and gear. And then tells them to kill themselves because they continued to point out the problem. Yes, literally. I've seen it.

I, too, have a "low level content walking simulator" build. The difference is, mine is Ember, who genuinely doesn't scale into Sortie levels on World On Fire damage alone without sacrificing efficiency (restore spam at mission start notwithstanding) to get there. And I don't EVER take it into public low-level matchmaking where it does auto-clear everything in and out of sight.

[Namah]

I use this weapon for easy focus farming, and it is absolutely stupid.

It took minimal effort to make a devastating build and it takes minimal effort to even use it if no effort at all. I can agree with anyone who comments on how I am making the game boring, unfair, or stupid for just using a Simulor alone.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

I can just as easily ruin someone's day with a hit scan weapon on Mirage, Chroma, and Mesa. I have had Synoid users quit, cuss me out in squad chat, or cuss me out over mic because I was "hogging" all the kills since I am an aggressive player that wallruns all over the place laying down the law. All I want to change for this gun is for it to stop screwing up my frame rate the second it's shot. That's it for me. 

[Fast_98]

No offense to anyone in this thread but I haven't seen anyone take the simulor to an offensive high level mission (high void survival) yet without mirage and tried using it offensively. Like so far all the examples given in this thread indicate that mirage is the user and HoM and probably Eclipse is activated. I'll say it again but when you got to be super close to a group of enemies and wait for the orbs to merge you actually have have to be more skillful in movement because of how enemies such as corpus tech, healer, ground pounders and scorpions can end you in a sec. In my opinion the root of the problem is mirage and she ain't going to stop until her 1 reworked or something because you'll get rid of the SS simulor but she'll just go the next aoe weapon.

[DreamsmithJane]

9 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

And I don't EVER take it into public low-level matchmaking where it does auto-clear everything in and out of sight.

This is actually the reason I stopped using my Resonance + Acid Shells Sobek combo. I clip an enemy with a couple of pellets, and the room explodes, even chaining around corners with a larger AoE than the SySim. It even works in sorties because of Sonar. It's honestly a bit silly.

[(PSN)Raptor_T9X]

Add me to list of people who wants the Synoid Simulor tossed out the airlock at this point. Just today I literally joined two sortie games in a row where the entire team used nothing but Synoid Simulors and a third sortie with two people running the dreaded Mirage + Synoid Simulor combo dominating the entire game without any input needed from the rest of the players running different setups. Might as well playing #&^@*!%  Jenga or Solitare at this point while the other people running around with the Synoid Simulors do all the work considering that the gun is so annoying to be around someone with (the screen shaking + lighting effects) and that it easily and without much skill locks down and kills an entire area off. This is all made more prominent with Mirage's Hall of Mirrors clones being able to combine the Synoid Simulor's orbs together into one (which should not be the case to begin with).  Not going to sugarcoat it in anyway but the Synoid Simulor and especially Mirage's interaction with the Synoid Simulor and other exploitable weapons needs to be NERFED. Yes I am MAD.

Edited December 7, 2016 by (PS4)Raptor_T9X