Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[(XBOX)Oussii]

I never got this result, not even close  to it  when i used Ash BS

[StinkyPygmy]

Well you gotta start somewhere. the synoid similor is an entirely different beast.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Keep playing with that, just don't be surprised when it gets the hammer.
It's too advantageous to use, not in the sense of pure strength, but the sheer nature of SPAM that comes from the S. Simulor + Mirage HoM.

Bladestorm wasn't really a spammable ability/feature either, just a Press 4 and Wait ability. Only reason it got changed was to make it a bit more active. Still deals the same damage now, but instead of an instant target acquisition on button press, you have to scan for targets.

[Cortanis]

4 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Bladestorm wasn't really a spammable ability/feature either, just a Press 4 and Wait ability. Only reason it got changed was to make it a bit more active. Still deals the same damage now, but instead of an instant target acquisition on button press, you have to scan for targets.

Let's also not forget that it's far more costly now with the energy mechanic involved. If you don't kill it, you're out the energy invested in doing the action. That's a particular problem for the big burly targets with increasingly larger hp pools to work from.

We've all known that the combo of Mirage and the S. Simulor is about the most broken thing in the game. Even among cheese tactic kill bot broken setups, it's still about the most broken combo. Let's face it, it's just a matter of time before it gets nerfed into the ground.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

I never got this result, not even close  to it  when i used Ash BS

I guess the simulor is still selling well.

[Xzorn]

[(XBOX)Oussii]

1 hour ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Keep playing with that, just don't be surprised when it gets the hammer.
It's too advantageous to use, not in the sense of pure strength, but the sheer nature of SPAM that comes from the S. Simulor + Mirage HoM.

Bladestorm wasn't really a spammable ability/feature either, just a Press 4 and Wait ability. Only reason it got changed was to make it a bit more active. Still deals the same damage now, but instead of an instant target acquisition on button press, you have to scan for targets.

I regret not taking a screenshot, but yesterday i was playing an ODD, Spova and kulstar

I had around 92% kills while the rest of the squad had 8%

My point is any combination of good frame/weapon with result of spam

[(XBOX)Oussii]

1 hour ago, Cortanis said:

Let's also not forget that it's far more costly now with the energy mechanic involved. If you don't kill it, you're out the energy invested in doing the action.

energy is the least of my worries. I have maxed greater zanurik and at any given time 200 large team energy pads

[(XBOX)Oussii]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I guess the simulor is still selling well.

I could advertise it and sell a lot on the trade channel :XD lol (good publicity)

[IceColdHawk]

2 hours ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Still deals the same damage now, but instead of an instant target acquisition on button press, you have to scan for targets.

You forgot to mention how it also costs infinite amounts of energy now ^^

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

You forgot to mention how it also costs infinite amounts of energy now ^^

I am not concerned about energy as i am never out of energy even within an energy reduction mission,

What i am concerned about (although i did not test it yet), is the 5 buttons switch on xbox one between #2 and #4, and time wasted to mark, specially if someone is using spova

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, Cortanis said:

Let's also not forget that it's far more costly now with the energy mechanic involved. If you don't kill it, you're out the energy invested in doing the action. That's a particular problem for the big burly targets with increasingly larger hp pools to work from.

Wrong, I did a few 60min survivals on Void yesterday and BS is still just as powerful. I run only with Streamline, even since the days of old blade storm, and I have to say the energy cost remained pretty much the same. The "-cost when invi" gimmick also works wonders to save energy when you mark many targets. As for damage, well, I usually run melee, and Ash being a melee oriented frame he is, gets BS buffed by combo counter. Rack a 3x combo counter and until lvl 140 nothing except maybe Ancient Healer Eximus is durable enough to survive a SINGLE mark, let alone 3, it also refunds energy if a 3 mark target dies in the first. If you want to save energy and kill everything with one mark I recomend you to try Sword Alone combat.

4 hours ago, Cortanis said:

We've all known that the combo of Mirage and the S. Simulor is about the most broken thing in the game. Even among cheese tactic kill bot broken setups, it's still about the most broken combo. Let's face it, it's just a matter of time before it gets nerfed into the ground.

I think the solution would be to tweak Simulor and HoM in the following way:

-Make Simulor series a projectile that creates the singularity on contact with a surface and deal damage if it hits an enemy

-Make HoM no longer generate singularities, just hit with the projectile. Also, return the 4 clones.

[JalakBali]

You don't seem to understand why DE tweaked BS. It's not because of its power or that it was spammable. They changed it for the same reason they changed Peacemaker: it's not interactive enough to use. BS just needs to point at single enemy, while standing at one spot, and then the game does the work for you. With Peacemaker, you just activate and press down mouse button and the game shoots things for you.  In both cases, you don't need to do anything else. Mirage (and even Ember) still need you to move around and aim at the direction of the enemy.  You needed to actually play the game, even if you're powerful and wrecks everything.

[Nazrethim]

17 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

 Mirage (and even Ember) still need you to move around and aim at the direction of the enemy.  You needed to actually play the game, even if you're powerful and wrecks everything.

Mirage just casts one ability and aims in the general direction the enemies are, that's pretty much what BS allowed in the past. If anything, HoM shouldn't interact with AoE weapons at all.

Ember can just cast WoF and run around, which makes any non-sortie mission a treadmill since the ember just runs ahead and kills everything, and it's sh*T on high level because it doesn't kill anything. Also doesn't require LoS. I think it needs an "overheat" mechanic, where it draines more energy as it goes but also deals way more damage.

[Tyrhal]

8 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Mirage just casts one ability and aims in the general direction the enemies are, that's pretty much what BS allowed in the past. If anything, HoM shouldn't interact with AoE weapons at all.

Ember can just cast WoF and run around, which makes any non-sortie mission a treadmill since the ember just runs ahead and kills everything, and it's sh*T on high level because it doesn't kill anything. Also doesn't require LoS. I think it needs an "overheat" mechanic, where it draines more energy as it goes but also deals way more damage.

So something like Valkyr's ult - increased energy drain the longer it's toggled active but for Ember with more damage over time? Anyway, I see Ember's WoF as a nice CC ability for higher levels but of course it ain't nothing any other frame couldn't do better. Like Loki for example.

[bubbabenali]

BS spamming is more annoying, because a S#&$ty modded Ash would hold the squad hostage for 2 minutes while he is very slowly nibbling the hp off of the last heavy unit that nobody else can damage the whole time.

[Tyrhal]

Just now, bubbabenali said:

BS spamming is more annoying, because a S#&$ty modded Ash would hold the squad hostage for 2 minutes while he is very slowly nibbling the hp off of the last heavy unit that nobody else can damage the whole time.

However, since the rework Ash's squad can kill marked targets now. Thank god for that.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Tyrhal said:

So something like Valkyr's ult - increased energy drain the longer it's toggled active but for Ember with more damage over time? Anyway, I see Ember's WoF as a nice CC ability for higher levels but of course it ain't nothing any other frame couldn't do better. Like Loki for example.

Pretty much. What I had in mind was a buff that stacks. Ember gains 1 stack of Overheat every second, each stack increases power range and damage of all of her abilities by 4%
 and increases WoF drain per second by 0.5, stacks don't dissapear instantly when the ability is turned off, instead they degrade at a rate of 2-3 stacks per second. Also, entering a Nullifier bubble or a Comba/Scrambus aura or being dispelled by Stalker/Zanuka would just cancel WoF but not remove the charges.

50 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

BS spamming is more annoying, because a S#&$ty modded Ash would hold the squad hostage for 2 minutes while he is very slowly nibbling the hp off of the last heavy unit that nobody else can damage the whole time.

That could have been easily fixed by DE making old Blade Storm attack a target a maximum of 3 times, instead of getting locked stabbing the same dude until the 18 strikes ended.

[SenariousNex]

Not a big fan of this setup late-game. Dmg drops off eventually making it useless and mirage dies when a high level enemy just looks at her funny. Take it vs lvl 140 Battalysts in simulacrum and tell me how that goes.

[Troll_Logic]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

energy is the least of my worries. I have maxed greater zanurik and at any given time 200 large team energy pads

Exactly.  I carry 200 of every pizza in each mission as well. 

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

What i am concerned about (although i did not test it yet), is the 5 buttons switch on xbox one between #2 and #4, and time wasted to mark, specially if someone is using spova

Not even an issue.  Here's my direct observations with new Bladestorm using a Xbox One Elite controller.  This was during a Akkad mission.

Just start marking mode and keep it active.  Targets were being marked as I played using melee and I would get the energy back when they died.  Because of this I was able to activate Bladestorm at anytime to kill large groups of enemies or the ones at distance (like the annoying Poison Moas).  Was able to go from melee to BS quickly all with a group of Tonker users and Speed Nova.  Doing it all with a controller. 

[djternan]

I think the problem with Mirage and Simulor is that they're perfectly fine until you combine them.  Simulor is a great weapon but not exactly overpowered in the hands of any other frame.  Mirage is strong but not nearly as strong with anything other than Simulor.

 

There are only a couple changes I can think of that wouldn't hurt normal users of Mirage and Simulor.  The first would be to make it so the orbs fired by Mirage and clones can only combine with the orbs fired by that particular clone.  Basically, after 1 shot you get 3 floating spheres but no combining until you fire the next.  The other fix I could see would be setting a limit on the number of singularities.  Other frames using Simulor probably don't reach more than 4 singularities but we've all seen a Mirage that has 10+ out at once.  This would force Mirage to slow down and detonate the singularities.

[CaptainEras]

Just tried the OP's rig [with both H o M and Total Eclipse] in a void survival and those figures are a walk in the park in no time. However, not my favourite rig so just a curiosity thingy and now back to the day job, lol . . .

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

I am sick of getting into missions with Mirage that just spam the Simulor. It sucks every bit of fun that the game can provide. Especially if its a defense mission where there is very little room to do much. I have no choice but to stand around and basically do nothing as the Mirage lazily shoots the Simulor and kills everything. Especially if you are using a Warframe like Inaros, Saryn or Atlas which requires alot of moving around and your enemies staying alive for you to be able to perform your abilities. 

 

 

I am all for making the most of your Warframe and what it can do, but this interupts OTHER peoples enjoyment of the game. 

 

Its just like Mesa before she was nerfed. 

[Nazrethim]

This would require a simple tweak: make mirage clones no longer produce singularities or blasts.