Power Creep suddenly going on

[Vicious_Vipa]

unlike many other players I always have been praising the "general balance" in this game - especially if you compare it to many other games.
Because a weapon or frame that was good 3 years ago is still good today and will always be.   This really is worth mentioning, after hundreds of things have been added to the game.

In fact:  I have just praised it today again in The Division Forum. (The Division is a game where the "best gear" you have spent weeks farming for becomes utter trash with every update).

 

However, now there is something else going on. 

1.) Occasionally things like new Primed Mods are added. They clearly are not factored in to the existing missions (not endless missions)
because the Sortie enemies have not gotten tougher.

2.) Riven Mods.  Even if the disposition is "faint" they potentially make every weapon stronger.  Much stronger

What is your opinion on this.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[pauli133]

Power creep? In a free to play game? Never happen.

[AdunSaveMe]

3 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

(The Division is a game where the "best gear" you have spent weeks farming for becomes utter trash with every update).

As a player of The Division, I can tell you this is an exaggeration and a lie.

Edited December 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Vicious_Vipa]

7 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

As a player of The Division, I can tell you this is an exaggeration and a lie.

yes ?  

And why has my gear become utter trash at least 3 times already?     4 times if you factor in that once a golden drop was a rarity and then suddenly EVERY named enemy dropped one.

So - now we have received patch 1.5

oh!  big exaggeration.  I am very sorry.
ok seriously - I really am not trying to provoke  - and I hope you are getting my general meaning.  

Because it does not really matter if it was 3 times or 5 times
(in 9 months by the way -  whereas Warframe has existed for MUCH longer)

The point is that your gear DOES become useless.   And not because other cool things are introduced - just because of the fact that they put another layer over EVERYTHING players had done before.   And then let you farm for the same things with higher numbers over and over.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[rytisrytis]

I think getting new prime mods ruin balance between guns more than rivens. For example mod that gives double dmg inc.

Imagine you have a powerful gun with base 1000 dmg and weaker one with 500, their difference is 500 but now add a mod that doubles the damage 2000-1000=1000 the gap is growing.

and for that reason rivens are way more balanced. 1000dmg one might get 60% dmg inc and weaker one 100%.

[marelooke]

5 minutes ago, rytisrytis said:

I think getting new prime mods ruin balance between guns more than rivens. For example mod that gives double dmg inc.

Imagine you have a powerful gun with base 1000 dmg and weaker one with 500, their difference is 500 but now add a mod that doubles the damage 2000-1000=1000 the gap is growing.

and for that reason rivens are way more balanced. 1000dmg one might get 60% dmg inc and weaker one 100%.

I'd argue that balancing mods with static stats is much easier than fully random ones though, if only because every player will be affected equally (so less outrage about unfairness etc), it's just that DE has never bothered balancing some of the more OP Primed mods.

I feel that Riven mods have just thrown any option to sanely rebalance the game out of the window.

Edited December 12, 2016 by marelooke

[Cimbro94]

In my opinion riven mod for faint disposition should not give certain bonus type like base damage....

Where as neutral could give medium bonus to base damage and strong disposition should always give at least base damafe increase...

Also the bonus should be more balanced... I've seen a video of tactical potato and his soma riven mod... That increase base damage by over 130%.... That should not be a thong in my opinion

[AdunSaveMe]

8 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

yes ?  

And why has my gear become utter trash at least 3 times already?     4 times if you factor in that once a golden drop was a rarity and then suddenly EVERY named enemy dropped one.

Changing drop rarity does not make gear trash. There was one update that made GS more important, and one update that added a world tier so everyone started on even footing and existing max cap players had something to do. Wowee, that sure is "every update".

It is a lie and an exaggeration, and it's a rubbish comparison to make. The only reason the gearscore was increased in the first place was because of all the changes they made in 1.4, not 'just because'. None of this applies to Warframe.

Edited December 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[BansheePrime]

8 minutes ago, Cimbro94 said:

 

Also the bonus should be more balanced... I've seen a video of tactical potato and his soma riven mod... That increase base damage by over 130%.... That should not be a thong in my opinion

Doesn't Soma have weak disposition though...? pretty sure you can't get that high with weak disposition and it HAS TO BE outdated, from back before disposition.

[Vicious_Vipa]

10 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Changing drop rarity does not make gear trash. There was one update that made GS more important, and one update that added a world tier so everyone started on even footing and existing max cap players had something to do. Wowee, that sure is "every update".

It is a lie and an exaggeration, and it's a rubbish comparison to make. The only reason the gearscore was increased in the first place was because of all the changes they made in 1.4, not 'just because'. None of this applies to Warframe.

first of all,  I clearly made that difference - I said that in WF something different was going on.   But both could be named "power creep" if you will.

secondly,  like I said: I am sorry for the exaggeration but does it really make a difference if it was 5 times or 3 times?  Your gear went into the trashbin. period.

now we have GS 256.  Would you consider for a second to use your 188 / 204 / 229 in WT 5 ?

 

It is not understandable for me why you cannot see what I am generally trying to say and only focus on my "outrageous exaggeration".
Just for you:   I was trying to praise WF for how they manage to keep a balance over several years but I also wanted to give a warning that something else seems to be going on recently.  With the Riven mods for example.

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[Cimbro94]

I should rewatch the video, but i'm pretty sure it was after the disposition changes...anyway when i have time i'll put a link of the video...

[BansheePrime]

2 minutes ago, Cimbro94 said:

I should rewatch the video, but i'm pretty sure it was after the disposition changes...anyway when i have time i'll put a link of the video...

Turns out the lowest recorded  percent a weak riven can have for flat damage is ~104% ... meanwhile the only weak i've ever seen has has 60%.. hurray for shinanigans.

Edited December 12, 2016 by maj.death

[Volinus7]

Gear race is not for fun, it's for money. Every f2p has used it since mesopotamia.

 

[kaliazane]

Does it even matter ? Majority of this game is super easy even if your weapons have half slots empty. At same time scaling in endless is so steep that all it will do is let you go few more min, before cheese tactics are needed.

Honestly, who cares.

[Bryntwulf]

I think all of this could be changed for the better by simply taking the RNG out of the percentages. Then we wouldnt have to worry about the Faint weapons being able to get +100% damage, as they'd be limited to 50%, or 75% with a negative stat. That might also help DE with their memory issue, as their current system creates a new file for each and every Riven Mod generated. 

[V45H]

sudden?

[Serafim_94]

Primed mods never lead to disbalance you suggest - because they apply to entire families of guns. Inside those families relative power remains unchanged. Rivens are different, but they are so random they don't directly favor one weapon over the other.

 

Now, what really was power-creep was Galatine and Tigris Prime release. And syndicate weapons before that. Remember when Boar Prime was good shotgun?

[Chroia]

10 minutes ago, V45H said:

sudden?

Quite.

First example I remember was the Boltor -> Boltor Prime. Which was part of the Rhino Prime Access. Which was... what? March 2014?

Edited December 12, 2016 by Chroia

[(PSN)robotwars7]

41 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

1.) Occasionally things like new Primed Mods are added. They clearly are not factored in to the existing missions (not endless missions)
because the Sortie enemies have not gotten tougher.

if Sortie enemies get any tougher in terms of Armour and the like, nobody will bother playing them. the whole reason why people go into the power creep is because De haven't done squat in terms of nerfing enemy scaling. whether this is due to refusal or because they are occupied on other things is a different matter, but the fact is that scaling needs to be drastically changed. once that happens, we won't NEED powerful mods, other than if we choose to min/max.  things have to change on the enemy end at some point.

44 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

2.) Riven Mods.  Even if the disposition is "faint" they potentially make every weapon stronger.  Much stronger

yet this depends heavily on RNG; you could roll a Riven 10 times and still not get anything with damage, Multishot or anything that drastically increases raw power. besides, the point of Rivens was to make less powerful weapons roughly as powerful as higher-tier weapons. yes, Rivens can make already strong gear even stronger, but now with Rivens you can take MR fodder rifles into Sorties and endless runs and kick just as much a$$ as the guy with a Soma Prime.

[rytisrytis]

47 minutes ago, marelooke said:

I'd argue that balancing mods with static stats is much easier than fully random ones though, if only because every player will be affected equally (so less outrage about unfairness etc), it's just that DE has never bothered balancing some of the more OP Primed mods.

I feel that Riven mods have just thrown any option to sanely rebalance the game out of the window.

That is true that its not balanced between players, i was talking about their effects between weapons.

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

39 minutes ago, Cimbro94 said:

In my opinion riven mod for faint disposition should not give certain bonus type like base damage....

Where as neutral could give medium bonus to base damage and strong disposition should always give at least base damafe increase...

Also the bonus should be more balanced... I've seen a video of tactical potato and his soma riven mod... That increase base damage by over 130%.... That should not be a thong in my opinion

Conversely though I had  Soma Riven that gave me -80% base damage. In the end I had a status monster, that couldn't kill. It was struggling against level 30 enemies so it does work both ways. Although someone is much less likely to use a mod that wekens their weapon.

I also have a Sybaris mod that on paper looks amazing, increased multishot and base damage nearly triples my dps, however in practice it is only marginally better than without the Riven.

All in all my opinion is that unless you get get incredibly lucky with RNG and get a god roll like crit chance & damage and multishot then the difference betwenn using the vanilla mods as opposed to using a Riven mod really isn't that much.

[rohver]

Its a free to play game. Power creep will always exist, like it or not. 

[SeaUrchins]

1 hour ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

Because a weapon or frame that was good 3 years ago is still good today and will always be.

Not true if you compare Ogris now and 3 years ago.

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

As a player of The Division, I can tell you this is an exaggeration and a lie.

While mechanically The Division is garbage now (1.4 fixed nothing; enemies are even worse sponges than they were, thanks to a single youtube video) it is still a better game than Warframe. The Division was balanced as the devs see fit (they did a poor job, but at least they tried, which is more than I can say for DE). Meanwhile, Warframe still features tons of knockdown spamming, control robbing, invulnerable cheapness, broken, half baked mechanics and devs who simply do not care. 

For all its many, glaring problems, The Division is still a better game than Warframe by a mile.

[Cloud]

50 minutes ago, rohver said:

Its a free to play game. Power creep will always exist, like it or not. 

problems must be solved, not accepted. That attitude is the worst.