Why do people care about kill count?

[gluih]

43 minutes ago, (Xbox One)AnnoyedHaddock said:

I see so many people say that Ember is not good at high level, but ths simply isn't true. She can very easily kill the low armoured level 100+ enemies with WoF, which is what she's designed to do. Ember is an add control frame, but with the right build you can get a 100% status chance on your 4th ability which basically stops things from shooting at you. Then of course you can take the firequake augment along with a decent melee weapon, and the ground finishers it opens up make quick work of anything. Yes she doesn't have much in terms of survivabilty, but seen as her WoF only targets 5 enemies at once, the key is to be constantly moving making you 10x harder to hit and in turn moving the ability effects between enemies making sure everything gets procd with a heat status effect and panics.

The point is that the damage falls off and her damage is what makes her exceptional in the lower levels. In lower levels you don't even have to slow down to kill enemies when you are running around with world on fire.

You say that she can kill lvl 100+ enemies with low armor easily. Now I don't really use ember in higher levels, but I would expect even enemies without armor to take at least a noticable amount of time when they are lvl 100+. And when you go against armored enemies your fire damage barely does anything.

Ember may be by far the best frame at killing lower lvl enemies, which makes her one of the best frames for lower levels. All you really have to worry about is your energy.
In higher levels other warframe abilities become more relevant. Frames like excalibur and ash deal a lot more damage, because their damage scales better. Tankyness becomes a lot more important, because not only do enemies deal less damage in lower levels, they also die so fast that they don't actually have time to attack. There are better CC abilities than what ember has. And then there are frames like nova or trinity, who bring very unique effects to the table, which ember also doesn't have (because she is all about fire damage).

[Xzorn]

Kill count is about efficiency.

In this game you're either rushing through to the end or waiting for an objective. In both cases killing more enemies is more productive than not..

Exceptions being Sab / Spy missions.

If you're talking about one player killing more than another, that could be ego or it could be one player putting efficiency over other factors.

In my case I want a little extra Endo, Credits and quicker Focus farm so I keep my kill count high.

[Azrael]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)Babadookcf said:

Overpowered frames? Take any of the frames we have in a high level mission and trust me, they get their butts handed to them.

I think I've  been playing long enough to know how strong or weak our frames are. Nerfs are necessary for the outliers that do so much damage in an AoE that they require less actual playing from the player than other frames or weapons. Mirage interacts differently with the simulor than with any other weapon, for example. Of course there will always be irritating players, but there shouldn't be weapons in the game that allow those players to dominate and ruin missions like that. Would you support a weapon that allowed friendly fire at will? There will always be trolls, but the game shouldn't enable them.

[Pixues]

I'm sorry but OP your description of the problem is a bit.....simplified.

You specifically mention 'kill count' instead of 'getting kills'. You're trying to portray the opinions of people who wants nerfs as a simple matter of numbers. I have seen the complaint threads about Ember and Simulor Mirage aswell. I didn't see them mention their annoyance being about the number of kills they get, but its about how a mission is rendered boring by playing with those frames/weapons in your team.

Your are portraying the problem as a quantity problem (kill counts), its about quality (experience).

I play low difficulty and high difficulty missions , they are both important for the experience. Whenever I play with easy missions with cannon fodder mobs, i still want to shoot the cannon fodder mobs, and not bullet jump my way through the level behind a 'lulz aoe' player.

 

I dunno, many people would rather see changes than nerfs. Again this thread misses the core problem.

I would rather see changes rather than nerfs, change ember, don't nerf her. Take away world on fire. Let ember change into a phoenix that breathes fire in front of it and melts lvl 100 enemies (bit of exaggeration there) , i don't care as long as some input is required, like.....aiming. That would mean ember could be amazing at high lvl games, and not so annoying at low level games.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Pixues

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, Pixues said:

Your are portraying the problem as a quantity problem (kill counts), its about quality (experience).

This is a very good way to put it. Thank you.

 

1 minute ago, Pixues said:

I would rather see changes rather than nerfs, change ember, don't nerf her. Take away world on fire. Let ember change into a phoenix that breathes fire in front of it and melts lvl 100 enemies, i don't care as long as some input is required, like.....aiming.

Honestly I'm less bothered by Ember because she doesn't blind me as much, and in sorties I'll at least have enough time to try to shoot them before the ember melts them. But more aiming is generally better. Anything that rewards the lowest skill behavior with the highest dps and kill count is a bit unbalanced imo.

[DatDarkOne]

8 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

"Epeen", and the sense that if you can get all the kills, you must be more effective than everyone else. Problem is, there's lots of factors at play, and kill counts alone amount to nothing.

I think this quote sums it up quite well. 

[(XBOX)Englands Own]

Ultimately you'll always get players with egos, that it's the be all and end all to get the highest kills.Honestly I'd rather contribute to the party with CC or support, for me they are the real kings/queens of Warframe, without them missions would be very hard or close to impossible. 

[Xzorn]

Oh... my mistake. I thought this was about kill count as a concept and why it's important to game play.

This is actually more of a community misconception about kill rate comparisons to effectiveness.

...That's kinda pointless.

 

 

[-N7-Leonhart]

10 hours ago, Deger27 said:

Ohhhh my friend. Much to learn about ember you have. :)

i will admit that I've spent way too much time with her (32% played, hehe, oops) but I can say mine will cut through lvl 80 sorties like a hot knife through butter

As for "ember has no defensive skills" *cough* firequake *cough*

Sorties are not really a factor, I can run Sorties with any frame for that matter and still do them easily. I challenge you to do a 1h 30m solo survival, where the enemies will be ~lvl 200, without the use of any focus power. That is what I have achieved with a custom engineered build on Chroma.

Oh and, Firequake is not defensive skill. Staggering the enemies for a bit is not equivalent with a defensive skill like Iron Skin, Vex Armor, Shatter Shield or even Smoke Screen.

Edited December 16, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[Witchydragon]

because they can't play pvp but still want to assert their alpha status.

[bubbabenali]

The momment you are in a ready for "40 waves farming team" of three - say Vauban/ Nova, Necros and Chroma and then that "CrAzY Quake Banshee" comes into the mix, you'll know why ppl hate on some frames.

[SonicSonedit]

16 hours ago, Jackviator said:

players dont always view these missions as just a task that needs to be completed. They don't view it as a chore, but as a fun activity.

Are we talking about warframe here?

Edited December 17, 2016 by SonicSonedit

[Jackviator]

5 hours ago, SonicSonedit said:

Are we talking about warframe here?

Yes, because fun is subjective. Just because one person doesn't find something fun doesn't mean that's the case with everyone.

The problem is, people who use these "efficiency" frames end up forcing their perspective of fun onto the rest of the squad, (ie "this isn't fun, we're going to get it over with ASAP, and you have no choice in the matter"), depriving people of the potential for enjoyment.

[peger]

Why do people care about kill count?

Cause my di*k is bigger than yours ;).

[fatpig84]

Kills or kill challenges almost don't matter to me.
The fact it is almost not applicable to me since I love Nekros Prime and Loki Prime.

In fact I get annoyed if I get the highest kills, because my frame has almost zero way of doing reliable AOE damage.
This means my team is leeching off a support Warframe to "carry" them.

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by fatpig84

[Ninjacalypse]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:45 AM, (Xbox One)Tyreal2012 said:

I think its more to do with the fact that people who kill everything on the map are detracting from others fun. People enjoy killing things, thats why Simulor Mirages and Embers get so much grief - its understandable when you want to play a map and you are jsut running after a Mirage picking up resources from their kills

I had an Ember on a super low level defense mission blowharding and complaining about how no one else was "helping" while he ran around aoe flash farming everything.

Don't be *that* kind of Ember/player folks. If you want to show all of the lowly "newbs" what a god amongst mortals you are then don't be a whiny [Error! Not a number!] about it too.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 10:39 AM, (Xbox One)Babadookcf said:

As the title says, why do some people care so much about kill count when, in warframe, it's just a statistics. There is no better reward for that player nor is there for those who receive the lowest damage done to them. And so honestly, why? Is it for ego?  The missions in warframe has an end goal. To finish it. And if a player finds an efficient way to do it, then all the more convenience to the others. Because in the end, the rewards are all the same. 

I believe it's unfair to use kill count to justify whether a frame should be nerfed. 

I don't care about kills as long as:

- mission is done

- non of the players have 0 kill

Other than that it does not matter

 

[(XBOX)Tyreal2012]

51 minutes ago, Ninjacalypse said:

I had an Ember on a super low level defense mission blowharding and complaining about how no one else was "helping" while he ran around aoe flash farming everything.

Don't be *that* kind of Ember/player folks. If you want to show all of the lowly "newbs" what a god amongst mortals you are then don't be a whiny [Error! Not a number!] about it too.

Did he ruin your fun? 

[Misgenesis]

Id like them to try and implement a support/heal stat to the results. I dunno how to calculate it but it could encourage better behavior.

[Ghogiel]

I care because it directly impacts my progression in the game. I have barely maxed one focus school and have 3 others open in various stages of completion.

[Deger27]

On 12/16/2016 at 11:55 AM, -BM-Leonhart said:

Sorties are not really a factor, I can run Sorties with any frame for that matter and still do them easily. I challenge you to do a 1h 30m solo survival, where the enemies will be ~lvl 200, without the use of any focus power. That is what I have achieved with a custom engineered build on Chroma.

Oh and, Firequake is not defensive skill. Staggering the enemies for a bit is not equivalent with a defensive skill like Iron Skin, Vex Armor, Shatter Shield or even Smoke Screen.

Challenge accepted and completed.

And Firequake doesn't stagger enemies ... it knocks them right on the ground and keep them there, play something and learn it before you state an opinion.

[-N7-Leonhart]

36 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

Challenge accepted and completed.

And Firequake doesn't stagger enemies ... it knocks them right on the ground and keep them there, play something and learn it before you state an opinion.

That is still an offensive ability, since it affects the enemy directly, by incapacitating them. At most, you will call CC ability. A defensive skill does nothing but protect and is best at it. If an enemy shoots a bullet in your direction, your CC skill can do nothing to protect you by knocking the enemy down afterwards.

[xV3NOMx]

.... to each their own.

[ Every player has their own goals in-game, mine are no different.]

 

 

Kill or be Killed.

[Charlitoooo]

It's important so that I can see who is doing the most kills. Yesterday I had my OP build with frost but someone else was doing really fine with his (not assuming genders pls) loadout. I just discovered a new weapon to play with (and it wasn't a sinoid simulor or telos boltace). 

[Ziden_]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:12 AM, Deger27 said:

Like mentioned before, me and my buddy like to have damage completions. But beyond that it really doesn't mean much. Of course a damage frame is going to do more damage than a support frame. Of course a veteran player is going to do more than a new player. 

People that compare damage to the whole team, I find are very narrow minded people and fail to see the bigger picture.

 

that being said I will say that I can be found comparing myself to anouther ember in the group if I'm playing mine. What can I say. No one is perfect. 

As Deger's primary competition for damage, the stats don't really matter.  It's just a fun end of the round statistic to play around with.  Also, it can be a good measuring stick for whether or not a particular build/weapon/etc... that is meant for damage is outputting more or less than something else.  Many combinations can work in this game, and typically there are going to be people who buff/support and others who do the primary dps (at least in high level play.)  

The level of mobs in question also attribute to the statistics.  Who cares about who killed more level 1-70 mobs?  Personally, I like to go fast and kill things fast. I rarely use guns.  I have them equipped for some reason, but hardly use them.  I like my melee weapons and like to see how going melee only can keep up or exceed other styles of play.  

However, sometimes I sit back and leech, though more often than not I do have to carry my teams if i want to go fast or go deep into survivals/excavations.  In those situations it's good to know what weapons and builds I can turn to that are capable of doing so.  In those situations, my damage competitions with Deger allow me to know that if I use this weapon or that frame, since I out-damaged his insane ember with it, I should be able to carry a 4 man spawn of high level enemies.

On the flip-side, when Deger is testing new builds he tries to out damage me or at least hang with me, and if he's able to do so he knows that it's a good build or at the very least has potential.