Certain AoE Weapons/Frames are enjoyment-vacuums. AKA, having to play against your squad isn't fun.

[deothor]

@Jackviator I'd accept all changes to how OE frames and weapons work if we'd have a real gameplay where mobs would have "the real deal" kind of AI.

 

so far all we get is bulletsponges or instakillers in missions meant to be rushed through

Edited January 29, 2017 by deothor

[bl4ckhunter]

Aoe is fine, mirage is fine, it's simply the simulor concept that needs to be trashed. Completely. You can't even call it a gun, it's a "shot it in the air to kill everything." you can either nerf it into the ground or it's op, the only way i can see it's reworking it completely into something that can actually be aimed at enemies and doesn't have an aoe of 22m

[Jackviator]

7 hours ago, Retequizzle said:

Additional suggestion:

Let us set parameters that players have to abide by to join the mission.  For example, allow me to set a lobby where anyone can join except someone with Mirage + Simulor, or anyone with a Telos Boltace.  To prevent abuse, have it be a list of 5 things at max that you do not want to party up with.  I'd pretty much blacklist anyone using a Simulor, Boltace, Mirage, Volt and Valkyr just with that alone.  

Sure, I'd probably be in mission queues with less people, but if that equates to 90% less visual pollution from Telos Boltace slide-spam or Simulor idiocy, then I'm fine with that.  The last thing I want to do is be in a carriage drawn by one-trick ponies anyway.

While I've seen this type of idea thrown around a lot, I think it would just end up segregating the community in the long run, and punish those who use certain loadouts, which isn't good.

[Tizodd]

I haven't joined a pug in weeks, for the same reasons you mentioned.  Lately I either solo, run with friends, or play another game.

I THINK [DE] plans to do something about it, which is why they're slowly doing away with press-4-to-win abilities.  I don't however, know how high it is on their priority list.

[Xzorn]

That's the way this game is played at low level dude.

You don't use a single target ability in Diablo3 do you? No,you use a big AoE ability and other things to support that AoE ability.

AoE has been king since Damage 2.0 came out.

Don't blame specific things. The fault is at the core of the game. DE has created this situation by making a good aim unrewarding, assaulting us with 40+ enemies at once and completely ignoring the long term effects of Power Creep. I don't know what game these Spear gun weapons were made for but it isn't Warframe. If you want to play this game throwing a spear then running over and picking it up. That's fine, do what you want. Just don't complain when someone plays the game efficiency and leaves you in the dust.

Players are fighting the same level range of enemies for the past 4 years of Power Creep. Big surprised, it's trivial. I don't know how anyone could do it. If I couldn't push to lvl 300-2000 enemies I'd be bored out of my mind. It has nothing to do with the level number either. It has to do with my decisions in mods and loadouts actually making a difference in performance. You can put on random mods and get majority of non-endless content done in this game. It's a joke.

We need easier access to high level enemies to counter our Power Creep, they need to fix enemy damage scaling and CP stacking. Most AoE options are not good with Status, Torrid and Zarr are the only AoE options you'll see late game against armored enemies. Simulor is Trash, Ember's damage is Trash and Boltace is Trash. All of this is a result of fighting enemies way under your damage capacity. It's like getting mad a lvl 100 player is destroying a newbie zone.

[shyguyk]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

 If I couldn't push to lvl 300-2000 enemies I'd be bored out of my mind.

you mean you dont get bored cheesing the living hell out of those enemies? (They cant fight back, you just CC them)

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

you mean you dont get bored cheesing the living hell out of those enemies? (They cant fight back, you just CC them)

 

None of my Solo lvl 300-400 runs are cheesed and when you get higher you get one shot for making a single mistake. Possibly wiping the entire team.

It's much better than being unable to actually lose, which is what  you get when you hang out in the lvl 30-80 range.

I have a reason to do calculations for weapons and team synergies. I have reason to theorycraft ideas for those upper level enemies.

I also made mention that enemy damage scaling should have been addressed a long time ago. When enemies no longer one shot you with a single Detron Pellet from across the room then you can justify reducing the effect of CC. As a bonus, group roles like Tank and Healer suddenly become viable. It's all the result of failures and neglect to the core game mechanics.

As a side note. One of the stronger comps for Survival uses Volt and no Mass CC.

[Jackviator]

14 hours ago, Reifnir said:

And who the Hek gave you the idea that you get to decide what is fun for me and everyone else? 

Because when one person's idea of what's fun directly affects the enjoyment of the rest of the squad in a negative fashion, there's a problem. This is a multiplayer game; the experience of the entire squad has to be kept in mind.

14 hours ago, Reifnir said:

You don't get to decide what fun is for everyone.

Oh, but I do. For example, I could decide to run public Exterminate missions as an Ember, or a MiraMulor. No one gets to experience the combat if I did that, because things die as soon as I enter a room. So in effect, I get to decide that my experience is more important than the experience of everyone else in the squad. I could even do the same as a Volt or Valkyr with a Telos Boltace, and that would have the additional benefit of making it impossible for the rest of the squad to see what they're doing due to the excessive particle effects.

.......Do you see the problem here yet, or do I need to reiterate it more? One player currently has the power to ruin missions for other people, due to certain gear and frames in this game. No amount of suggesting "just go invite only" will fix that core problem; only rebalancing, reworking, and nerfing these things will, because no one should have that power.

14 hours ago, Reifnir said:

Let's turn this around and see how you like it.

Oh, go right ahead. Do go on, this promises to be entertaining.

14 hours ago, Reifnir said:

I think that boring, low fire rate and little to no AoE weapons ruin the game experience and turn a fun horde shooter into a horribly unbalanced tactical shooter-wannabe that it actually isn't. Whenever I see people armed with Lex, Vectis, Buzlok, Sybaris or other underperforming single-target junk I want to kick them out from the group, because in most cases they won't contribute much (if at all) to the glorious carnage that makes the essence of Warframe. I propose to turn ALL weapons into AoE death machines, so that subpar, boring weapons that ruin the experience for me would start shooting homing, piercing projectiles that annihilate anything in one room and fly into the adjacent ones to continue killing stuff. 

...Right then.

So, the main message I took from that is that you propose a counter-solution, in the form of all weapons being homogenized to work the same way mechanically (aka enter a room, press a button, literally everything dies), and work off of massive, overkill-levels of damage.

...

_{*must... resist... urge... to re-use Bender Laughing gif...*}

...Aw, screw it.

I'll just put it like this and move on:

I'm not suggesting we go and homogenize the weapons in this game. Hell, I even said that in the OP in the counter-argument section, but I guess you didn't even read that far. Have a read now:

18 hours ago, Jackviator said:

• "Well, erm, you're just trying to make every weapon/frame the same! Is that what you want? To homogenize everything?"

...

...............................

How do I put this... Take a look at how the Grinlok works vs the Soma. Or, for a more extreme example, take a look at the Jat Kittag vs the Redeemer. Basically, weapon and frame mechanics do FAR more than enough to make every piece of gear in this game feel unique.

And anyway, no, that's not my goal. I don't want any weapon or frame to be identical to anything else. I just want to make sure that things are in a relatively stable state of BALANCE. There's a massive difference.

_{(Coincidentally, there's that Bender gif again. Funny how that worked out.  )}

Point is, all I want is a bit of balance in terms of combat, and the possibility for your squadmates to participate in the combat. That's all. No homogenization, none of that. Just balance, and your squad having a chance to experience combat. And speaking of, to address the point of having your squadmates not contribute to the kill counts in missions, as you said:

At least in those cases where your squadmates might not be the most "efficient" in their gameplay, you have the option of using whatever tools you like to deal with the enemies. Point is, you get to deal with the enemies. You have the ability to participate in the gameplay, the agency to engage in the combat yourself.

Thing is, anyone using brainless AoE removes that agency from their squad if their squad is anywhere near them. That's where the problem comes in: Oddly enough, some people kinda want to actually be able to play the game they're currently in the middle of. Kinda the point of playing a game.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Jackviator

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

I don't know how anyone could do it. If I couldn't push to lvl 300-2000 enemies I'd be bored out of my mind. It has nothing to do with the level number either. It has to do with my decisions in mods and loadouts actually making a difference in performance.

Congratulations. You know how to use a modding system that's as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle to achieve results that are ultimately meaningless. There was no reason to even mention this in relation to this thread. None of this changes the fact that OP raises a point that happens on a daily basis, whether it be in a level 5 alert or a level 100 sortie.

Gameplay gets removed from those of us who enjoy using bows, throwing knives, rifles, or any other variety of non-AoE weapon by people who spam their AoE abilities or weapons incessantly with no regard to how others might enjoy the game. Almost every argument I've seen was covered in their OP, albeit rather snidely, and the one that's often forgotten is that you will sometimes get these people joining your mission when you're already halfway through them so you have little-to-no incentive to leave and find a new squad because you're already invested in the success of that run.

But, by all means, continue on with your amazing knowledge of how to get to completely useless levels of content. Meanwhile, some of us will actually discuss the topic at hand.

[Xzorn]

10 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Congratulations. You know how to use a modding system that's as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle to achieve results that are ultimately meaningless.

If it's so simple... Please tell me the avg bleed damage per shot of this loadout.

https://goo.gl/qZv4M6

11 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

There was no reason to even mention this in relation to this thread. None of this changes the fact that OP raises a point that happens on a daily basis, whether it be in a level 5 alert or a level 100 sortie.

Gameplay gets removed from those of us who enjoy using bows, throwing knives, rifles, or any other variety of non-AoE weapon by people who spam their AoE abilities or weapons incessantly with no regard to how others might enjoy the game. Almost every argument I've seen was covered in their OP, albeit rather snidely, and the one that's often forgotten is that you will sometimes get these people joining your mission when you're already halfway through them so you have little-to-no incentive to leave and find a new squad because you're already invested in the success of that run.

It's not meaningless because OP's multiple threads about the same thing are simply a result of perspective. From a player who doesn't do Sorties Ignis is the most OP weapon in the game. Yet we all know that's not true don't we? Why? Perspective.

OP's post in an attempt to address the result of a problem and not the problem itself which is that we simply do far too much damage (In general) to be fighting lvl 40-80 enemies. Many players were fighting these enemies 3 years ago with far less damage output at our disposal.

Remove Simulor, Remove Boltance, it doesn't matter. You've fixed the problem for a few months till something else takes it place. DE will never keep from giving us cool new toys nor should they because that's how they make money.. What we need is a playground for these upgrades, Instead they seem intent on giving us amazing toys but telling us we can't leave our room with them and then you get people crying "It's OP" when it's really not.

And don't use that "Well the majority of players..." excuse. You know very well that's the result of the very flaws I'm talking about. The majority of players don't sit at GR20 in Diablo3 do they? No. Because they're properly rewarded and given incentive to push further and it's supported by Power Creep in both Offensive and Defensive abilities with quick access to their desired level range.

40 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

But, by all means, continue on with your amazing knowledge of how to get to completely useless levels of content. Meanwhile, some of us will actually discuss the topic at hand.

I have a reason to get upgrades, Rivens, new Prime weapons. What reason is there for someone who sits at lvl 40-80? Like I said in my first post. Random mods can finish most content. Talk about  meaningless levels..... There's nothing more meaningless than a game you can't lose and have little to no reason to progress in.

[xxfiurionxx]

Sometimes your the killer... sometimes your the "leecher" :p

More seriously though, i think that is something that wont stop so soon because at the very least exists something called enemy lvl were at least the lower lvls mobs are very prone to that since many of us invested and builded our characters / weapons to be efficient enough.

Personally dont have much problem with it and usually just play along with it be it picking the goodies or killing something here or there but its not like most of them grieve about us not coming equiped for a complete WAR on a lvl 20-30 mission sometimes lol

Understand the feeling though since sometimes it feels bad going back to an earth mission or two to gather a new kubrow egg, scan some plants etc and find myself sided with new warframe player recruits were if i didnt take care i could basicly run the whole mission "in a sec" with them barely having the chance to do anything since they are not that into the movement or pace in warframe yet guiving them problaly a terrible starting experience :/

[-AoN-Stalker-]

Want to solve the issue, easy

Just play solo and that's it.

No one forced you to play public in the first place.

Edited January 30, 2017 by -AoN-Stalker-

[Unholyrequiem]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

If it's so simple... Please tell me the avg bleed damage per shot of this loadout.

https://goo.gl/qZv4M6

It's not meaningless because OP's multiple threads about the same thing are simply a result of perspective. From a player who doesn't do Sorties Ignis is the most OP weapon in the game. Yet we all know that's not true don't we? Why? Perspective.

OP's post in an attempt to address the result of a problem and not the problem itself which is that we simply do far too much damage (In general) to be fighting lvl 40-80 enemies. Many players were fighting these enemies 3 years ago with far less damage output at our disposal.

Remove Simulor, Remove Boltance, it doesn't matter. You've fixed the problem for a few months till something else takes it place. DE will never keep from giving us cool new toys nor should they because that's how they make money.. What we need is a playground for these upgrades, Instead they seem intent on giving us amazing toys but telling us we can't leave our room with them and then you get people crying "It's OP" when it's really not.

And don't use that "Well the majority of players..." excuse. You know very well that's the result of the very flaws I'm talking about. The majority of players don't sit at GR20 in Diablo3 do they? No. Because they're properly rewarded and given incentive to push further and it's supported by Power Creep in both Offensive and Defensive abilities with quick access to their desired level range.

I have a reason to get upgrades, Rivens, new Prime weapons. What reason is there for someone who sits at lvl 40-80? Like I said in my first post. Random mods can finish most content. Talk about  meaningless levels..... There's nothing more meaningless than a game you can't lose and have little to no reason to progress in.

The answer is that slash damage is equal to 35% of the base damage of the weapon/ability being used. So add the totals up which is 869.202. 869.202 * 0.35=304.2207. Then you take that number and multiply it by 7 as it deals 7 ticks of damage in 6 seconds. So 304.2207* 2,129.554. Now we must ascertain that it has a 18% status chance and our final conclusion is that on average it'll deal 383.31972 or 383.32 slash damage per shot on average. Now that's not taking into account that slash won't always be the status you actually end up proccing. since there are 4 elements to proc and viral has actually got by far the largest weight in terms of proccing. 

And no, the modding system isn't deep or complex, it's really inconsequential to know exact numbers most of the time so long as you know approx how each mod affects your weapon which in most cases adds more damage. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Unholyrequiem

[ashrah]

in every game u have x combo who will  perform best... simulor is super boring for me..   i have it maxed.. but almost never use it...i dont see any fun in that wepon.. u stand in place and just spam orbs...i can understand if ppl doing over 1h endless and u need best stuff.. but ppl use it on akkad.. 2-3 simulor in game...and what is really annoying u cant pick up a loot...

[SnuggleBuckets]

Squad compositions in public matchmaking should allow for a better preparation phase where the squad gets to coordinate better before approving any decisions to start a mission, that would be the best long-term improvement to the toolsets of all players and devs.
Then, anyone hopping into pugs and finding team compositions they don't like can negotiate about different setups and preparations, or just leave and try finding teams again in public.
Create a clear and simple menu option for toggling on and off forced preparation phase so that it's the players choice if they want the pure random encounters with people without any opportunity to veto on decisions about how to come equipped in missions.
Leave AoE tools for those that like them on their own or in a team of likeminded individuals, demand more tools for better team preparation & coordination under any circumstance.

(Ammo economy is the real imbalance, Shotguns, launchers and other one bullet = high damage weapons having good ammo pools and can pick up the same amount of ammo a rifle, pistol or bullet hose can, but equalling 10x amount of damage they can dish out with just one bullet. Either limit supply and pool of ammunition for such weapons and expand it for the pea shooters and bullet hoses, or make the launchers & shotguns consume more ammo per shot, kind of how the new DOOM has shared ammo pools, but higher damage AoE stuff consumes more of that pool for balance.)

[Reifnir]

8 hours ago, Jackviator said:

Because when one person's idea of what's fun directly affects the enjoyment of the rest of the squad in a negative fashion, there's a problem.

And your definition of enjoyment is the only correct one?

Because I sure as hell don't enjoy killing every low-level enemy individually when I can wipe the entire floor and be done with it. 

8 hours ago, Jackviator said:

One player currently has the power to ruin missions for other people, due to certain gear and frames in this game.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the logic here. How the hell did you come to a conclusion that "complete a low level mission quickly" is a statement equivalent to "ruin it"? 

 

8 hours ago, Jackviator said:

No amount of suggesting "just go invite only" will fix that core problem; only rebalancing, reworking, and nerfing these things will, because no one should have that power.

Wow. Just wow. 

 

8 hours ago, Jackviator said:

At least in those cases where your squadmates might not be the most "efficient" in their gameplay, you have the option of using whatever tools you like to deal with the enemies. Point is, you get to deal with the enemies. You have the ability to participate in the gameplay, the agency to engage in the combat yourself.

If your dangerously inflated ego is hurting your very being every time YOU don't get to deal the same amount of damage as that pesky AoE-spamming player you should seriously consider never, ever playing in Public matches. For safety reasons. Because one day you could very well stumble upon something horrid, like players boosting others through low-level planets - which could very well cause a heart attack. 

 

 

 

Oh and by the way, this guy here gets it:

7 hours ago, Xzorn said:

he majority of players don't sit at GR20 in Diablo3 do they? No. Because they're properly rewarded and given incentive to push further

And yet, no one is screaming apocalypse just because a geared, high-paragon character can enter a low-torment game and kill everything on screen (or even several screens) just by walking in that direction. Yes, Warframe does not have any meaningful content to match our current power level. We're stuck at Torment-6 with GR-70 capable gear, so to speak. But that does NOT, in any way, shape or form mean that we have to nerf everything back into Stone Age, it simply means DE needs to snap out of adding useless gimmicks and start adding proper, challenging content. 

[KamishirasawaKeine]

I don't see any problem with these builds, the only possible problem is game mode.

Currently, every single game mode encourages you to race and massacre through the missions, NO EXCEPTION, NOT A SINGLE ONE. Want more affinity? Kill more. Want to stay longer in survival? Kill faster. Want Aklex Prime badly? You better run faster in fissure missions.

So what will happen if we suddenly lost all viable AOE weapons and abilities? Would you like to spend a whole year on the Hema research? Would you like to spend the whole afternoon in the sortie because you have to pop thousands of mobs one by one? Warframe has become much more time-consuming since the past year, and I don't think we should go any further on that, unless you want those Destiny fanboys laugh to their death.

 

Another problem is balance. What do you think balance is? What is the standard of balance? How long should the average time-to-kill be to be considered balance? Should we revert to the pre-corrupted-mod age to achieve balance?

Warframe is a fast-paced game that expect you to take down enemies as fast as you do in Dynasty Worriors, so why are we nerfing every single frame that is actually able to do that? Why don't we buff every frame that fails to be useful?

Before the game get rid of the current looting and rewarding system that heavily encourages player to do anything incredibly fast, I won't consider any warframe rebalance to be useful, because they won't matter, they won't change the principle of player's build choice, the fastest guy always win.

[k05h]

I am one of those Ember players but I also have no problem spamming avalanche with Frost, shocking entire floors with Volt or spamming bastille all over the place with Vauban. I would say half of the warframes have incredible AoE when build right.

One of the reasons why my builds have become very effective in nuking or controlling large areas are sorties. Sorties forced me to make those highly efficient builds. I cannot undo what I have learned. And now I take those builds into "normal" missions. I do not see a reason to not use those builds. They make grinding fast and to a certain extend enjoyable.  

I play with the tools DE has provided. DE will never be able to nerf every OP frame. In the time they need to rework nerf an old frame they release two new frames. It is even worse with weapons and the so called god rivens. DE opened up Pandora's Box long ago by deciding quantity over quality. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by k05h

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

It's a standard progression mechanic that exists in most games, as you progress through the game you become more powerful and gain access to more powerful abilities and equipment that allows you to take out your enemies faster and more efficiently, equipment/character/race/class synergies are also a very common mechanic just like the simulor+mirage combo

 

games like warframe/STO/TES/ESO/Destiny *shudders*/Diablo/WOW/Neverwinter and many games going back into the 90s have been doing this for years and it's very unlikely to change.

[JalakBali]

12 hours ago, Jackviator said:

So, the main message I took from that is that you propose a counter-solution, in the form of all weapons being homogenized to work the same way mechanically (aka enter a room, press a button, literally everything dies), and work off of massive, overkill-levels of damage.

....... no, he didn't. He was just pointing out how absurd it is if he turned the tables and used your exact argument to propose the opposite. And you responded by laughing at how absurd it is. Because it is absurd. Like your original argument.

 

12 hours ago, Jackviator said:

Thing is, anyone using brainless AoE removes that agency from their squad if their squad is anywhere near them. That's where the problem comes in: Oddly enough, some people kinda want to actually be able to play the game they're currently in the middle of. Kinda the point of playing a game.

And they could. By getting people that play like them. For every time you complain a random PUG is wiping out the whole map before you see any enemies, there is an exact opposite of someone griping that his PUG is too slow at killing things.

 

Here, let me make this simple to understand: you're literally complaining that other players are not playing like you do and share your values on what constitutes "fun". You will never achieve this perfectly balanced nirvana of awesome teammates because even if DE removed every single AoE weapon and ability from the game, you will continue on to complain about PUGs who are not playing up to your standards, either by running off by themselves or playing stupidly or dying constantly etc. Because your real problem is not AoE weapons but other peoples not sharing your gaming style. It's obvious by your calling AoE "brainless" thus casually dismissing the significant size of players who enjoy them.  Strangers are not guaranteed to share your values and may not enjoy the same things as you. That's life. Deal with it.

[Jackviator]

12 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

Because your real problem is not AoE weapons but other peoples not sharing your gaming style

Small correction: AoE weapons prevent anyone from using any other playstyle. Because AoE users turn the "playstyle" of all the other players in the mission that they're in into running after the AoE user, hoping to see an enemy at some point.

[Xzorn]

8 hours ago, Unholyrequiem said:

The answer is that slash damage is equal to 35% of the base damage of the weapon/ability being used. So add the totals up which is 869.202. 869.202 * 0.35=304.2207. Then you take that number and multiply it by 7 as it deals 7 ticks of damage in 6 seconds. So 304.2207* 2,129.554.

I have no idea where some of these numbers are coming from.

 

8 hours ago, Unholyrequiem said:

Now we must ascertain that it has a 18% status chance and our final conclusion is that on average it'll deal 383.31972 or 383.32 slash damage per shot on average. Now that's not taking into account that slash won't always be the status you actually end up proccing. since there are 4 elements to proc and viral has actually got by far the largest weight in terms of proccing. 

18% is the probability for a Status effect per shot. It's not the expected Status Trigger per Shot. It's actually a rather useless number.

There's actually little difference in proc weight between Viral and Slash. It's not "by far the largest" by any means and it's not the majority at all. You still have a  greater chance of a physical status proc 61% over elemental 39%.

 

8 hours ago, Unholyrequiem said:

it's really inconsequential to know exact numbers most of the time so long as you know approx how each mod affects your weapon which in most cases adds more damage. 

That's part of my point. The level ranges majority of players hang out at the small numbers don't matter. Hell even the big ones don't matter much. Hence my comparison of putting on random mods and finishing most content.

This is why the player base thinks Viral + Rad is the best option for Tigris when it's not and why Sweeping Serration is overvalued when it actually gives slightly less Bleed Damage than Vicious Spread. Perspective of players who never have a need to check on their opinions because their choices don't actually matter.

 

8 hours ago, Unholyrequiem said:

And no, the modding system isn't deep or complex,

Far as the overused No Man's Sky reference. You haven't proven this to me. There's actually quite a bit of depth in the damage system and modding choices. You might not have to care about it because we do far too much damage to these pitiful lvl 40-80 enemies. AoE or otherwise.

Short of completely getting rid of AoE; there is no solution to this problem other than fighting higher level enemies. This thread is just perspective on the truth exaggerated by AoE effects.

Which is. We should have moved past lvl 80 a long time ago.

Spoiler

Soma Prime 12 Damage Crit 30% x3, Status 10%, 50% Base Slash
Serration + Heavy Cal
12 ( 1+ 1.65 + 1.65) = 51.6
Primed Bane
51.6 * 1.55 = 79.98
Elemental 79.98 * (1.65 + 0.9) = 203.949
Point Strike + Vital Sense
0.3 * (1+ 1.5) = 0.75
3.0 * (1+ 1.2) = 6.6
Multishot
1.9(79.98 + 203.949)  = (151.962 + 387.5031) = 539.4651
Avg Damage per Shot
(151.962 + 387.5031) * (1+ (1- 6.6) * 0.75)
539.4651 * 5.2 = 2,805.21852

Status Weight
Status Trigger 0.1 * 1.9 = 0.19
Elemental Weight 387.5031 / 4(151.962) + 387.5031 = 0.3893
Elemental Status Trigger per Shot 0.3893 * 0.19 = 0.074
Slash Weight 4(75.981) / 4(151.962) + 387.5031 = 0.3053
Slash Status Trigger per Shot  0.305 * 0.19 = 0.058
Avg Bleed per Tick (151.962 * (1+ (1- 6.6) * 0.75) * 0.35 = 276.57084
Avg Bleed per Proc 276.57084 * 7 = 1,935.995
Avg Bleed per Shot 1,935.995 * 0.058 = 112.3

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Xzorn

[(XBOX)ZAYNE 79]

Hmmm, if I go into a lower level mission with randoms I freaking want the mission to be done as fast as possible! So it´s either me nuking everything (with frame or weapon) or it will be one of the randoms doing it. Yes, this is my personal opinion for lower level missions. Done as fast as possible. There is no "what frame could work best with the frame the randoms are using or weapons they are using". You want that low level done yesterday, end of story.

For higher level stuff I personally never play with randoms, way too many idiots around that ruin it for you (or can ruin it for you) so I stick to playing with friends, clan members, alliance members and we talk with each other so if we want to, we can build nice teams with awesome synergy.

I get the point that it is boring for you TC, no question about that. I felt the same when I encountered it but I just don´t do those missions with randoms anymore. I just don´t see why you are not playing solo for these type of missions or play with friends. Nerfing weapons and/or frames because low level (or even mid/higher lvl missions) can be nuked by one person with pressing one button is not a solution. That is basically what we have worked and grinded for ;)

In a game that is level based there will always be something high level that shreds everything in a low level mission.

[JalakBali]

8 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Small correction: AoE weapons prevent anyone from using any other playstyle. Because AoE users turn the "playstyle" of all the other players in the mission that they're in into running after the AoE user, hoping to see an enemy at some point.

A playstyle you opt into by going into Public games. If you hope to fight enemies, why not Friends Only or pre-form a group?

 

What if you get into a non-AoE group but one guy is just so good at shooting he shot all the enemies before anyone else could? Ban that guy too?

[Jackviator]

6 hours ago, Reifnir said:

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the logic here. How the hell did you come to a conclusion that "complete a low level mission quickly" is a statement equivalent to "ruin it"? 

Because some people actually find the combat cathartic in this game. And if that type of person is in the squad of an AoE user, they're not gonna have a good time, because the AoE user is stripping people of the chance to experience combat. This detracts from their experience, and essentially allows one person to decide that their experience/time is worth more than the experience of the 3 other people on their group.

 

6 hours ago, Reifnir said:

If your dangerously inflated ego is hurting your very being every time YOU don't get to deal the same amount of damage as that pesky AoE-spamming player you should seriously consider never, ever playing in Public matches.

I don't care about kill counts or damage%s at the end of missions. I care about the possibility of participation/contribution to them, and the combat experience itself, not the numbers at the end. Because it's kind of hard to kill things when someone melts the enemies of any room they're in as soon as they enter the room.

...Oh yeah, and incidentally, due to that "ego" bit:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Might help you to have a read. Try to refrain from ad hominem in the future, aight? Doesn't exactly help convince anyone.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Jackviator