Worst/Most 'Useless' Warframes?

[mosaickle]

Just curious, which Warframes are considered the worst? Like which Warframes are basically useless or have the least influence?

[Bouldershoulder]

Ash ¬¬ the king of uselessness

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

None of them are really useless.  Even Limbo has some cheese strategies for sortie and Mastery Rank tests that no other framenities can do.  Maybe Hydroid and Oberon because other frames can fill their roles better.

[DerkmeisterPrime]

Hydroid is considered the weakest, most useless frame in the community.  

He is only useful on Interception (which makes it boring), and farming in which is is still not really good.

DE for some reason made it so adding Range makes his first better and his 4th worse and vise versa.

He really needs a look at and a rework. I don't really play Hydroid, but the thing that bothers me is that Hydroid is made to look like the Pirate and then his ability set screams water elemental. Just weird to me.

That is the frame that like 75% of the community call useless

-DerkmeisterPrime

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

I'd say oberon, zephyr and limbo.

Oberon is poorly balanced offering quantity over quality while having 80% of his effects go unnoticed at all times.

Zephyr is outdated, offering 2 abilitys that are essencially parcour 2.0 and a ultimate that was originally meant to set multiple instances of status which was permanent the time she released... She got a slight rework a while ago that countered this problem by making her tornados smaller and adding velocity to them, what made them a pretty annoying, unuseable source of CC.

Limbo suffers from the same issues zephyr and oberon do using a very annoying concept with nieche uses at best which mainly benefited ability using frames before DE began nerfing the majority of them, rather moving the games focus towards weapons.

 

Ash probably also falls in this category... The damage to his ultimate was a little too much for him.

Edited February 17, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[-FV-Metheria]

Oberon. He can do everything. Poorly. In the game where you can put four Warframes great at each individual thing you need into one squad. 

[Rhekemi]

 

20 minutes ago, DerkmeisterPrime said:

He is only useful on Interception (which makes it boring), and farming in which is is still not really good.

Considering that there are really only two farming 'frames (and resource sinks like the Hema exist, and others like it might later) I'd argue it's still good. Doesn't change the fact that he needs work, but his use in farming is enough to justify his existence right now.

20 minutes ago, DerkmeisterPrime said:

DE for some reason made it so adding Range makes his first better and his 4th worse and vise versa.

He really needs a look at and a rework.

The other framing 'frame, Nekros, recently got one, so I'm sure Hydroid will, too. Maybe when he gets his prime.

20 minutes ago, DerkmeisterPrime said:

I don't really play Hydroid, but the thing that bothers me is that Hydroid is made to look like the Pirate and then his ability set screams water elemental. Just weird to me.

He's both. DE often draws from multiple inspirations and influences to create a warframe. Some are more singular, but not all are.

 

[BiancaRoughfin]

28 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Ash ¬¬ the king of uselessness

Hope your being sarcastic. :3

14 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Zephyr is outdated, offering 2 abilitys that are essencially parcour 2.0 and a ultimate that was originally meant to set multiple instances of status which was permanent the time she released... She got a slight rework a while ago that countered this problem by making her tornados smaller and adding velocity to them, what made them a pretty annoying, unuseable source of CC.

I play with Zephyr the hole time, her kit is pretty well, only changes she needs is having DiveBomb incorporated into Tailwind so aiming down and casting it would trigger DiveBomb instead then add some other useful skill to her (2). Tornados are a good CC skill if you use them in the right moment and place, differently from others, its not the kind of skill you will be spamming in every room you enter, i for example often use it when rescuing downed allies and there are too many enemies clustered around them.

 

 

[ArchPhaeton]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I'd say oberon, zephyr and limbo.-snip-

What are you talking about...

Oberon is the OK frame, he's not extremely good at anything so people dismiss him, but I use him in sorties and all goes well, healing allies and smiting enemies endlessly with Reckoning.

Zeph does need love, Parkour 2.0 made half of her skills obsolete and Vortexes are annoying. The best feedback + suggestions I've read about her are here:

Spoiler

On 1/26/2017 at 5:51 PM, Thaylien said:

Alright. Alright, alright, alright.

I know that the title of this thread got to me. It's a tired question, and it's something we've debated for months at a time. Flying. But OP doesn't actually want just flying, they do actually want to try fixing Zephyr. They just don't know quite how to go about it.

Let's put aside all the sarcastic remarks, all the lovely back and forth. And I'll try to talk some sense.

First, let's get this out of the way:

Here is your mis-understanding. She is an Air Caster, it was the original design, and the original release. She was specifically designed not to fly, but to launch and land.

It's a subtle difference, but an important one, since 'flying' in this game isn't actually flying, it's hovering, and heavily limited hovering at that. Launch and land is what big birds, birds of prey, actually do, and what DE has tried to make her do.

I will be the first to admit that she doesn't succeed in what she's supposed to do. It's the key to my own discussions about her re-work, but let's be clear, the abilities were made to try and get players to launch into the air in order to come down on the enemies hard, not to stay up there indefinitely.

If the abilities worked as intended, she wouldn't need fixing, these are all, on paper, good abilities and simply lack the mechanics to make them work.

Second, let's get to the big debate here: Flying.

I've heard the arguments, both for and against flight, for years now, and not one person has been able to actually counter something very basic about flying:

Flying doesn't help, it hinders, because the game isn't built for flying.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Since you used Titania as an example, I'll use her too:

Flying barely helps Titania, it is a barely acceptable ability on a frame that was designed with abilities and functions that are supposed to compliment it.

Why? Because all the other game mechanics are based around being on the ground. Because people like having weapon variety. Because regular melee weapons don't work with flying. Because there are no enemies up there to fight.

Want to revive a team member? Capture a target? Use a console? Activate life support? Pick up a datamass or power cell? All of these things require you to be on the ground, not in flying mode. Same with melee functions, like stances, blocking, finishers, ground finishers, power attacks, even the ground slam can't be performed from flight without cancelling the flight.

Want to use your beautiful shiney new Tigris Prime? Nope, and not because DE wanted you to use the new Dex Pixia, but because they wanted to prevent you from using your small size and extra evasion to make the head hitbox on every enemy impossible to miss when unloading a maxed-out blast of crit-status from your gold-plated shotgun. Or Tonkor, or anything else that benefits from having guaranteed accuracy on a usually difficult place to hit for that weapon.

And the only enemy that's in the air higher than your own body length is the Grineer Hellion who hovers at around the height of a bullet jump for a short duration. There are no flying enemies to fight, that's why Titania shrinks down and flies around at head height on the enemies, because there aren't any up in the sky. On a very large portion of the tiles in game there isn't even enough head-room to fly in.

So, let's apply the same concept to Zephyr... How does that help her?

The answer is, it doesn't.

Zephyr is far more mobile than Titania already, adding 3D movement will allow only one thing that she isn't able to do already; the hover. Making Zephyr hover doesn't help anything.

You touched on it yourself, Zephyr wouldn't shrink, so small environments would be a problem, and all of the above points will stand, with some modifications. If she flies, then where is one of her strongest methods of attack, melee, going to fit? She wouldn't be able to use it. Turbulence is such a strong ranged defense that Zephyr can literally ignore ranged attacks while she runs in and uses melee, and flying would just turn that option off.

 

In fact I'll posit a bold statement here:

Unless you changed Zephyr's entire kit to match flying, there is nothing that a flying Zephyr could do that a non-flying Zephyr couldn't do better (except hover in the air).

So... 

Third, I want to actually be helpful here and go through some points I raise regularly on Zephyr threads that would actually fix our old frame and make her feel like a new and fully functioning frame again.

You see, DE had certain things in mind when they made these abilities, and they should work. Should. They don't. Or at least, not well, and not reliably.

What were those things?

How about this:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Tailwind is supposed to be a mid-point burst movement ability that falls between Volt's Speed and Nova's Warp as a movement ability, it can travel most of the largest tiles very, very quickly and, if you happen to hit an enemy, inflicts damage and a status on them. Also, when you cast it on the ground it's an instant-escape mechanism, stunning all enemies around you, and gaining enough height to synergise with the second ability, Dive Bomb.

For a 1 cast ability? That should be great, right? Should.

The problem with this ability? People now see it as a direct either/or to Bullet Jumping. And it's easy to see why people prefer the bullet jump, since it is usually a shorter duration, doesn't cost energy, you don't get stuck with it so easily, it interacts with the environment so you can wall cling or wall run out of it instantly and it also stuns enemies as you lift off. Also, the damage and status from Tailwind are weak, weak enough that you lose functionality after level 4 enemies.

Well... how would I fix that?

Step one: Stop Tailwind being an animation-lock cast. Putting her in the super-hero pose is pretty and all that, but it means that she can't do anything. She's literally at the mercy of her own ability and can't stop if she happens to hit a wall or a box... or a crack in the floor. Let the player cancel out of it by using the parkour movement, so that you're never stuck smashing your face into a wall again. Or an enemy. That's an embarrassing one in a tight corridor, you just can't get out, even though you're hurling yourself at them bodily.

Step two: Make it longer. Not for nothing, it has to balance, but a good addition would be that holding the ability button extends the cast for up to double the distance for an extra energy cost.

Step three: Make the affect on enemies worth the effort of casting the ability at a target. The current is a base 250 damage and a Slash proc, if this were changed to a Ragdoll, throwing the enemy in the direction you're going, then it would act like a low-damage, CC oriented, Rhino Charge, and be effective in those tight spaces that Zephyr is so bad at getting out of.

 

Tailwind doesn't have to do damage, but doing something beyond being just a movement cast has to count for something.

And this is the theme I would continue with for Dive Bomb.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dive Bomb, is, on paper, another one that should be good. An instant cast knock down on multiple enemies in a radius, with damage dealt that scales with height, height that is usually generated sufficiently by the launch from Tailwind.

The issues? The range is pitiful at base, and the knock down is completely unreliable.

Why is it unreliable? Because of the rule of Warframe that Animation beats Status. Knock down is a Status, but all of our abilities and some of our movements are Animations, that's why we can cast abilities and not be knocked down, or why we can swing certain melee weapons and not be blasted back.

Just the same applies with enemies. A stagger is an animation, the stun from Silence, Radial Blind, Maim and so on, they're all animations. These interrupt everything else and take priority, that's what makes them good CC.

The fix then?

Step one: Give it an animation based knock down. Don't make it any longer or shorter than a regular knock down, just make it an animation so that it takes priority and guarantees the effect on all enemies except bosses, just like every other CC cast can do.

Step two: The damage scales with height, the range can too. Range scaling from height probably should have been a part of this ability from the start, but wasn't, but a fair guess would be to allow a capped scaling to up to double range would be fair, with height.

Step three: Give it some more synergy with Tailwind; casting the launch animation from Tailwind first causes the duration of the CC, the knock down animation, to last longer, up to three or four seconds longer.

To newer players, this still isn't a strong ability, most would say that we should do something with the damage or just make the range a mod based thing with a higher base. But anyone that's taken pure melee to its logical conclusion with a good Crit weapon and a melee frame knows that four seconds of extra knock down is an amazing opportunity, while an instant radial knock down for regular duration is nothing to be passed up, especially not for 25 energy.

Again, she doesn't need to deal damage as much as she needs this reliability.

 

You see where I'm going with this? These two, individually, are fairly indicative of abilities that cost that energy. 25 for a movement that knocks things down? Sure, it's not unheard of, Rhino and Excal are two right off the top of my head, as is Hydroid and Atlas. A 25 energy radial soft CC? Well, not so common, but the ones that are radial CC that cost more energy do more, they stun and debuff, which is way more useful, and they also have larger range, so being worse than them in some respects, but having a boosting function? That's as they were designed from the start, they should go together like two lego blocks, you can cast the movement whenever, you can cast the CC whenever, but cast the launch and then the dive and it becomes more than that.

The abilities just... should work. They currently don't, and it's purely down to the mechanics of how they're executed.

Look at Tornado:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

On paper, four roving Vortex casts that you can use your own damage to customise the elemental type of damage they deal, which in turn means they can proc the status in question, that should be awesome.

Sadly, nope. The pick-up duration is erratic, meaning the damage and status chance is erratic, the launch is random, any enemy behind the funnels can shoot you, but you can't shoot them, the funnels don't have any kind of limit on where they go, move really slowly and... worst... there's no damn off switch on an ability that lasts anywhere from thirty seconds to a full minute.

Soooo... this one needs something more, right?

Okay, Step one: Put a range on how far the funnels can travel away from the point of casting, like any other damn ability in this game. Make it a large range at base and cap it at the 50m mark to prevent abuse. Inside the circular range, the funnels still free-roam and act pretty much exactly as they do currently, with a few improvements. Targets are based on whether they are on the ground and inside the ability range, meaning all existing targets are prioritised and new ones are targeted by a funnel immediately on coming into range, funnels move faster, funnels follow the navigation mesh that enemies do to make sure they don't get stuck against walls or in corners, and only one funnel targets each enemy, meaning that there will never be a case of all four funnels chasing one enemy while others come in from different directions.

Step two: The control part of Crowd Control. A funnel picks up and suspends an enemy for a fixed duration, unaffected by mods, meaning that every enemy is treated the same, exposed to the same number of damage ticks, and equal chances to get status applied to it. Once released, an enemy is launched upwards with momentum, but completely released by the funnel that held it, meaning that no more enemies will ever be pinned to the ceiling by an un-moving funnel; enemies will need to touch the ground (or 'right themselves' for hovering units like Ospreys) before they are captured again. Together this means the enemies that enter the ability are CC'd completely until the end of the cast. Reliable.

Step three: A damn active cancel. All those times we just wanted it to stop... Keep it as a duration cast, like Vortex or Tentacle Swarm, but when we press 4 again, turn it off early. This allows us to re-cast somewhere else, to stop annoying team mates, to be tactical with our use of it, not just panic cast to clear some breathing room.

Step four: Let it take our elemental type without preventing our damage. Much like allies, we just want to be able to shoot things through the funnels, not be forced to wast a full magazine because the enemy in question is only-just-half-edging-behind a funnel and we can't see what the actual edge of the in-game model is on the funnel.

I mean... would that really be so hard? Most of the people I've spoken to don't think so.

This would turn Tornado into an actual area-denial form of heavy CC, that's what it was supposed to do. It's that sweet-spot between Vortex's instantly re-castable and combinable heavy CC trap, and Tentacle Swarm's wide area of enemy flailing death. Where Vortex is pure CC, and Tentacle Swarm is (really surprisingly deadly) Finisher Damage, Tornado is a combo of regular damage and status, plus the long duration CC that Zephyr needs on missions where she doesn't usually shine.

 

Now... what of those three as actual abilities?

You have a 1 cast that deals ragdoll in a direct line while also providing 3D movement that can be used as a better bullet jump, flowing easily into the Parkour system. A 2 cast (for only 25 energy) that instantly CCs an area with complete reliability, that scales with height and synergises for bonus effect with her 1 cast. A 3 cast that is, literally, one of the best defense abilities in game, turning off ranged damage completely and allowing her to cast her 2 with impunity to ignore the ones her smaller range couldn't effect. And a 4 that can consistently and reliably defend objectives, hold a side of a map down, completely clear a radius of enemies from around a target, or even just watch your back for forty seconds without wandering off all while inflicting status on the survivors to weaken them for you when you want to face them.

None of her abilities are going to kill enemies past a certain level, but Status is king. Having an ability that can, if left alone, strip off the armour from a dozen units and set them on fire before they can even begin to shoot at you will last far longer in this game than base damage ever will. Having an ability that can instantly CC for a short duration is good at any level, and beyond that... the survivability that her ranged damage negation and her mobility give her is astonishing anyway.

tl;dr

Zephyr has everything that should be good. Fixing those 'should be's into definites is what will create a better frame.

She doesn't need new abilities, doesn't need damage, doesn't need some quirky flight mechanic. She has everything she needs, if only it worked.

I hope I haven't really blinded anyone with wall-o-text. And anyone that wants to discuss the flying thing, just ask, I'm perfectly happy to debate with you.

Limbo makes almost any hostage situation a walk in the park, same with most spy missions. Yes, the continuous ability nerf made him 66% less useful for the squad, but he still has his uses and apparently will get a rework soon.

Hydroid is just about OK, has some CC and some damage. Also, in conjunction with Nek, he gave me a lot of resources. Ash makes all sortie boss runs (specially grineer) 66% faster. Most frames are intended to be good and one or two things, don't expect them to shine in every aspect.

Answering OP, the only frame I have been unable to find a use is Wukong. He has almost no CC, no team buff, just the slams of the iron staff and some weird survivavility.

[Oranji]

Let's use the word worst cuz there certainly aren't any *useless* frames per se.

• Hydroid - Cc frame with poor cc / very random skill placements / Just a loot booster to support Nekros.
• Zephyr - Skill 3 is amazing but that's it. 1 & 2 isn't useable on probably like 90% of the map that you could play in. Skill 4 prolongs the fight than necessary.
• Oberon - type "define:mediocre" on Google. That's him.
   

Edited February 18, 2017 by Oranji
Removed Limbo

[(PSN)Akabane85]

It is hard to tell what useless is in Warframe, since every frames provide different roles and utility. So I'll define my type useless as frame that has same function, role and utility as other frames but less effective/ weaker. By this mean, Hydroid definitely excluded from useless category. And useless doesn't mean less fun as well, so please don't mind if I call your favourite frame useless.

Ash - The first comes to mind. I can't find any useful, utility provided by using Ash, aside from killing every thing, but other frames do far better. You could argue he can do well protect hostage in Sortie defense, and killing enemies at same time. That's fine, I use it this way too. But even Mesa do better for just killing everything before they hurt hostage.

Atlas - A one punch man, that do nothing beside one punch every enemies, except it's more than one punch.

Zephyr - I hate to say, but yes, Zephyr. I love Zephyr, especially the Jet Stream and Tonkor combo, but that's the only way I love her. Her skill are designed for gaining advantages before parkour 2.0, now her Turbulence is her only good skill for being invincible, but limit to bullet. And Wukong outshined her for being fully invincible. Plus the explosion headshot fix reduced me from using Tonkor, and I have less reason using her.

 If you want me to choose the worst of the worst, I'll probably choose Zephyr. Ash is bad, but good when you want some stylish. Atlas one punch is very strong. Zephyr's 1 and 2 is complete useless, 4 is very bad CC, damage rely on weapons, zero support, only good at being invincible, but still limit to bullets.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 minutes ago, ArchPhaeton said:

What are you talking about...

Oberon is the OK frame, he's not extremely good at anything so people dismiss him, but I use him in sorties and all goes well, healing allies and smiting enemies endlessly with Reckoning.

Zeph does need love, Parkour 2.0 made half of her skills obsolete and Vortexes are annoying. The best feedback + suggestions I've read about her are here:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Limbo makes almost any hostage situation a walk in the park, same with most spy missions. Yes, the continuous ability nerf made him 66% less useful for the squad, but he still has his uses and apparently will get a rework soon.

Hydroid is just about OK, has some CC and some damage. Also, in conjunction with Nek, he gave me a lot of resources. Ash makes all sortie boss runs (specially grineer) 66% faster. Most frames are intended to be good and one or two things, don't expect them to shine in every aspect.

Answering OP, the only frame I have been unable to find a use is Wukong. He has almost no CC, no team buff, just the slams of the iron staff and some weird survivavility.

Oberon combines low damage, low support and light Cc. Sry i'm just beein realistic here. You can work with his kit, hell i even have a fully build oberon still in my list, plus deluxe skin but everything he can is straight inferior to any other effect in the game. The Radiation CC of his ult expires by the time enemys stand up, damage is low what only makes the knockdown useable. The armor buff of hallowed ground is useless for anyone who would actually use it, so is the damage. Only thing useable is the Cc protection. Renewal is garbage trough and trough. Smite, that one is cool but it doesn't cut it, what boils his kit down to low damage, Knockdown Cc for the cost of a ultimate and Cc protection...

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Depends on your particular playstyle and the Warframe in questions particular niche.

Despite some very salty forumers who want to just spam a single ability to win, there's no Warframe that is useless. Mesa was considered useless because she can't 360noscope every enemies from spawn anymore. She's probably the best hallway killer in the game right now. Nidus is considered unkillable but has a butt naked health bar and can't protect an objective solo for s***.. Just frames left that need an updates to current systems like Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Loki, etc.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

This game has huge wide of players with their own play styles, so, soon or later, we will hit the point where any Frame is useful.

[kyori]

ah... another thing players didn't tell you... about Ash.

Ash got dumped because his used-to-win-all-press-power4 is nerfed to the ground... so people now said he is uselss.... but that is not true.

What they didn't tell you is that he has a special ability that can one shot any enemy regardless of any level, except bosses(not field bosses), capture targets and stalkers. Oh.. and a handful of minor enemies that doesn't need that skill to kill.

So, take words in the forum as a guide but expect more to the twist and only believe it when you have experienced it yourself.

[(PSN)deadbeef001]

all frames are useful, it's the operator in transference mode that sucks balls.

[Reifnir]

21 minutes ago, kyori said:

What they didn't tell you is that he has a special ability that can one shot any enemy regardless of any level, except bosses(not field bosses), capture targets and stalkers.

Sure... But you forgot to mention that:

a) You need a Covert Lethality dagger and/or a Fatal Teleport augment for it to work properly. Oh, and a bunch of other frames have forced finisher openers too. With better bonuses (Radiant Finish comes to mind). 

b) It's a single-target ability in a game where you have to kill hordes of enemies most of the time. Except for cases when you need to dispatch an assassin sent after you (Stalker), capture a target or kill a boss... Too bad it can't be used on them. Very useful indeed!

 

Ash *has* been smashed by a nerfhammer blow to the knee. The rework nerf solved NONE of Bladestorm problems and the rest of his kit is way too meh. Anything he does can be done without Ash, and most of the time, in a better/easier way.

 

And as for 100% useless frames... Probably Oberon. Even Zephyr, Hydroid and Limbo have dedicated, niche uses that make them feel special. Oberon is good at literally NOTHING. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Reifnir

[kyori]

3 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

a) You need a Covert Lethality dagger

No need.

[NightCom97]

OBERON LOOK SO BADASS BUT HE SO FUKING TRASH FRAME I EVER SEE, NEED REWORK HIM

Edited March 13, 2017 by NightCom97

[Xzorn]

No frame is really "Useless" just less useful than other choices. This is a loaded question but I'll bite.

Zephyr

Oh and lol @ the Ash useless comments.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Xzorn

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

Imo Excalibur, you never need him for anything as every thing he has can be fixed by another weapon  (i.e Vaykor Sydon) or by another frame (Literally anybody else). To an extent Rhino as well, but I see him more as utility for people that don't have injectors in JV.

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

On 2/16/2017 at 11:00 PM, Bouldershoulder said:

Ash ¬¬ the king of uselessness

What

[Bouldershoulder]

Just now, (Xbox One)BlackcoatOne said:

What

whatever

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

2 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

whatever

Right on

[(XBOX)Zero117AsZ]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)ALG Minuscule36 said:

Imo Excalibur, you never need him for anything as every thing he has can be fixed by another weapon  (i.e Vaykor Sydon) or by another frame (Literally anybody else). To an extent Rhino as well, but I see him more as utility for people that don't have injectors in JV.

What? You can use an Excal on every type of mission and fits ok

[ashrah]

hydroid....only good ability is 3 cz u can stun lock area on interception that is all...