[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Fallen_Echo]

Just now, kyori said:

That... you only have DE to blame.... or the one who suggested to DE on the idea of the present stasis... Ya, jojo cosplay... and end up making people hate limbo. 

The stasis wouldnt be a bad thing if we could opt out our teammates from it.

[(PSN)psycofang]

21 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Keep workin' that angle,

No choice but to, im blamed for things i never did and hated since day 1 ,regardless of how much i support my team by healing and rezzing and killing, i have S#&$ kicked at me.

DE only listens when people whine hard enough and cry as loud as they can regardless of logic. Its all emotion.

So ill make everyone cry as loud as they can full of hate and tears because DE will kill any sensibility yet do the illogical and stand by their decisions.

Maybe of the whole damn forum is burning with pure hatred maybe theyll just roll limbo back or change something reasonably. 

 

From all ive seen people are only happy when they have something to cry about, when they all mutually hate something they are happy. I will make them happy by making them come sprinting here to complain.

To give them a wonderful reason to hammer their keys in happiness that something is ruining their game.

 

Maybe then DE will fix it.

Edited April 25, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[WonderEdge]

Limbo's main issues come from his abilities and the way they interact with his allies.

I think less people would call him annoying if he could just stop accidentally banishing his teammates. It would be nice if he could banish either enemies or allies based on how long the button is held down. It's a simple change that would make give him alot more control in what he's banishing.

I also think banished targets need to have a clearer indicator. It's easy to get confused as to what's banished and what it isn't, and it takes a few seconds to realise you're not doing any damage. 

Stasis is a great CC, and really is a fun ability in solo play, but it really does feel detrimental to teamplay because it forces people to switch the way that they're playing. Players have to opt to meleeing enemies in stasis because not many Limbos are observant enough to end stasis early, making firing bullets seem slower and seem more pointless. I'm not really sure how to fix this issue without removing the bullet freeze, and it's hard because that's what makes the ability fun and unique in the first place.Perhaps the best way to go about it is to provide incentive for ending stasis early so it doesn't disrupt gameflow as much. Something like increasing the damage of shots or dealing knockdown. The nerf to Cataclysm basically means Stasis Limbos would be far more common than Limbos that nuke everything, which might be a bad thing in it's current state, since alot of people find Stasis very annoying in a team setting.

Regarding the nerf to Cataclysm's damage. I feel like a nerf was called for, but I did think it was a bit extreme. Seeing Limbo doing too much damage to barely doing any seems like a drastic change. I'd prefer if the damage on instantly collapsing it was in a nice inbetween moderate amount. That's just my opinion.

Edited April 25, 2017 by WonderEdge
Had another idea

[Chroia]

8 hours ago, kyori said:

Ember's firequake mod is useful as CC even in high levels. A lot of frames' their power cannot kill high level enemies straight out, so Ember isn't alone.

Useful, certainly.
Reliable, not so much.

High level mostly goes with high spawns, which WoF's capped # of targets can't cope with.

And yes, no nuke frame can keep up with enemy scaling, but most other nuke frames have some defensive skill to fall back on. Ember has Accelerant's 2 sec stun.

(To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you.)

-----

3 hours ago, LazyKnight said:

They fail at excavation and who would bring stasis limbo to secondary only sortie?

Today's? As long as your secondary can kill power packers, whyever not?

Grineer have no Nullifiers, so as long as you pick up the batteries without dying, and keep a Cata up on the Excavator and Stasis active, you've basically won.

[LazyKnight]

Just now, Chroia said:

Today's? As long as your secondary can kill power packers, whyever not?

Grineer have no Nullifiers, so as long as you pick up the batteries without dying, and keep a Cata up on the Excavator and Stasis active, you've basically won.

Beside the fact today a delinquent limbo leaves a bunch of stasis Ai next to the excavator and left to do other things. A little while later, they broke stasis and destroyed the excavator because he moved his cataclysm to another location. This limbo was neither monitoring what in his cataclysm nor what was put in stasis. And, I do not think one person in the group had a secondary that could break stasis.

Having Ai near the excavator is a pointless risk. It really doesn't help with a PuG limbo that think they are helping and failing to watch their own powers. Why would I want a limbo for excavator? I have found Limbos to be strictly inferior to Frost on that mission type for protecting the excavator. And, If I want to CC the AI i would rather a Loki use irradiating disarm so they are running around away from the excavator.

An afk simulator sounds like great fun I am glad DE nerfed everything else that could permanently CC things. They added diminishing returns to other things then they added stasis, yeah afk defense sounds like such fun!. 

 It doesn't matter what you say or how you defend troll frame because you're skilled blah blah blah. I am blacklist anyone that joins a group with limbo from now on. Feed up with limbos I do not want their help ever again. And I do not care if i end up soloing from now on.

 

 

[Chroia]

I empathize with this anecdote. A badly played Limbo is disruptive.

But your main problem wasn't the frame, it was the player playing it.

9 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

delinquent limbo

as you say, key word being delinquent, not Limbo.
(Not maintaining Stasis, removing Cataclysm from an Excavator without making sure it was protected.)

Beyond that, I'm not going to argue.
You prefer Frost. I find Limbo much safer (although slower, since you're limited to 1 active Cataclysm, compared to Frost's 4 Globes). YMMV, obviously.

Who you blacklist, do or don't play with, etc. is entirely your prerogative.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

11 hours ago, dreadgame said:

Just make it so stasis stops only limbo's bullets or other limbo bullets not any other frames. 

Limbo's stasis is insanely strong. Its duration based and has virtually limitless range and capacity of enemies it can hold. Its only down side is stopping bullets. Good Limbo players actually know how to spread Stasis using Rift Surge + Banish instead of using Cataclysm. Cataclysm envelopes everything but Surge and Banish only affects enemies.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

14 hours ago, ShadowStalker said:

T.R.I.G.G.R.E.D

Lol. I've never actually encountered people trying to cap Stasis by unloading so many bullets. But i I do encounter someone like that, I'll activate Cataclysm and make them think Stasis is up so they'll lose all their ammo for nothing. OG Limbo players used Cataclysm as battle arenas with our Rift Torrent builds before the rework and Stasis's CC. We know what we're doing. Additionally, Banish is a pretty good CC inside Cataclysm by itself already.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

See, DE, this is why "Don't matchmake me with X" filters are needed. We are not going to get along here, that much is clear.

[robbybe01234]

Yeah, we should be able to opt out of Limbo's stasis.  You know, we should also be able to opt out of any other frames ability or person's choice to use an ability whenever we feel it suits us.  Oh no wait, we should actually have direct control over what frames other people should be using.  And also any abilities they would be using at any given time, of course.  That reminds me, people with what I feel is unsatisfactory internet connection...we should just ban those people from our game, right guys, who's with me?

 

[DreamsmithJane]

I hate how people blame Limbo for their unwillingness to put a little thought into their play. None of these problems are real.

If Limbo accidentally banishes an ally, it does effectively nothing, because they're banished at the same time as the surrounding enemies, so they can still fight (except that the fight becomes localized, so they don't get hit by a ballista or bombard). This goes doubly for frames who rely on powers for direct combat. If he banishes an ally to save them, it knocks all nearby enemies down, so they can escape, especially if he also turns on Stasis. If he uses Stasis, allied bullets still do damage, just delayed. The tradeoff is that nobody gets shot. If you're smart, you still spend exactly the same amount of time shooting, except with more headshots and no dodging needed. If Rift Surge sends additional enemies into the rift, then hit Limbo's rift tear next time he dodges. As for him only being useful in higher level missions, because you can just run & gun in lower level ones, you can say that of literally every frame. Oh, except that Banish will kill low level enemies by the dozens without ever getting them into the rift, sort of like Mag's Pull.

I'm not even a Limbo player, though I did pick him up a bit when the rework landed. I just have a modicum of willingness to cooperate with my team, and I think this whole thing is silly. I love to see Limbos, now that I know they can't be nukers.

[Vance.Stubbs]

In today Sortie I've met the most ****ing irritating Limbo player in my experience. All he did is spamming cataclysms, randomly freezing time, banishing teammates for no reason and dying about 10 times. After the time he banished my Chroma for like 15th time, I told him to stop banishing me and quit playing Limbo. His reply was hilarious: "do you really have to kill everything? go spam tonkor noob". Uhh, yeah, I have to kill everything because I am playing Excavation Sortie. How will I power up the drills either way? Also, he end up with dealing 3% of total team damage. Very useful.

Saddest thing is, I can't even report him or kick him, because DE report categories are either too vague or don't match the "game ruining/trolling" at all.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Vance.Stubbs

[Nez-Kal]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

See, DE, this is why "Don't matchmake me with X" filters are needed. We are not going to get along here, that much is clear.

*Siiiiiiiigh* Until no one anywhere wants to play with the frames you like. And before you start telling me about how "nobody hates /This/ Frame or /That/ Frame which I use and love", Warframe CHANGES. So, people might be okay playing in squads with them now, but who knows, maybe everyone and their grandma will hate them later.

And then you'll run to the forums screaming "Boo Hoo, nobody wants to Pug with the Frames I want to use" and the vicious cycle continues as you demand they disable it and yadda yadda yadda. The end.

 

TLDR: It's a bad idea, mate.

[Vance.Stubbs]

7 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I hate how people blame Limbo for their unwillingness to put a little thought into their play. None of these problems are real.

If Limbo accidentally banishes an ally, it does effectively nothing, because they're banished at the same time as the surrounding enemies, so they can still fight (except that the fight becomes localized, so they don't get hit by a ballista or bombard). This goes doubly for frames who rely on powers for direct combat. If he banishes an ally to save them, it knocks all nearby enemies down, so they can escape, especially if he also turns on Stasis. If he uses Stasis, allied bullets still do damage, just delayed. The tradeoff is that nobody gets shot. If you're smart, you still spend exactly the same amount of time shooting, except with more headshots and no dodging needed. If Rift Surge sends additional enemies into the rift, then hit Limbo's rift tear next time he dodges. As for him only being useful in higher level missions, because you can just run & gun in lower level ones, you can say that of literally every frame. Oh, except that Banish will kill low level enemies by the dozens without ever getting them into the rift, sort of like Mag's Pull.

I'm not even a Limbo player, though I did pick him up a bit when the rework landed. I just have a modicum of willingness to cooperate with my team, and I think this whole thing is silly. I love to see Limbos, now that I know they can't be nukers.

Yeah, except that Limbo crap effectivly shuts down several Warframes completely, like Chroma, who relies on getting damaged constantly or Inaros, who relies on finishers to heal himself. Or sniper gameplay, I adore it so much when that Tech I aimed at gets randomly banished just before I charged my Lanka. 

Either way, ruining the game for 3 other players because some Limbo scum thinks he is "smartly controlling the battlefield" is unacceptable. I don't care that "my bullets still hit the target". I want to play the game how it is inteded for other 31 Warframes, not how some random fedora wearer wants.

Where is my An average Limbo user video!?

[Bobtm]

As someone who adores using Limbo and tends to enjoy playing missions on Public in order to be cooperative with others, I can't help but feel a bit mixed on the current state of things.  The short and sweet version is this;  It's way, way too darn easy for a Limbo player to be incredibly obtrusive and controlling to squadmates.  Enforcing a "You'll play the way I want you too." mentality upon them if they aren't very thoughtful and minimalist with ability usage.  A player hoping to troll as Limbo will be very good at it.  A player who is just average and not thinking maliciously towards allies will also sadly be very prone to trolling allies while using Limbo.  Even thoughtful players run the risk of inadvertently trolling allies in minor instances due to the mechanical function of his abilities.

I've managed to counteract the issues as much as possible by just being very mindful of what my allies may want to do or enjoy while playing.  Take the stasis situation as an example.  When using Limbo's 2, I very regularly and frequently will turn it off and back on again.  We're talking maybe shutting it off and turning it back on again after maybe 4 seconds or so, maybe 7 seconds in more problematic situations.  Using Stasis in this way allows myself and all of my allies to shoot things, while still providing the benefits of being in the Rift to myself/nearby allies.  And I still have the option for using long Stasis if my allies voice the desire for me to do so.

Sadly, very few Limbos (or players in general) act with thought to what teammates may enjoy.  So Limbo ends up with an atrocious reputation in missions since players basically play him in a way that is very poor for teamplay.  Much as I truly hate to say this, Limbo took up the torch that old Ash used to carry.  Though he does so in a far different way than Ash used to, he basically hard-blocks allied gunfire if not played with care.  Which honestly just kind of sucks.

One solution that has popped into my mind (it's a bit of a doozy, so keep that in mind) would be to very directly kneecap the problem child at its source.  Dropping the base Duration of the Stasis ability down to something like 6 seconds or so.  Directly forcing it down to the point where Limbo can't just arbitrarily remove any allies' ability to contribute to a mission with meaningful gunplay.  It's definitely a very hard "throat-punch" level of a solution, but it would instantly sever a lot of the nightmare that Stasis brings with to the table.

The other solution is just to make it so Stasis has 0 effect on allied gunfire, none whatsoever.  It's a simple solution but would be incredibly effective.

To make matters even worse than that, even Limbo suffers very drastically from running across the obtrusive perma-Stasis Limbo.  The Stasis ability is a constant across all players' Rifts, meaning that if I run across another Limbo, I suddenly also can't shoot a darn thing.  So I suffer just the same awful situation.  I've come to honestly hate seeing another Limbo in matchmaking, since I know that it'll really muck up the way gameplay should work.

At the end of it all, something definitely will need to be addressed with the problems created by Limbo.

24 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I hate how people blame Limbo for their unwillingness to put a little thought into their play. None of these problems are real.

You've got it completely backwards.  It's not an unwillingness to put in thought that's present in those not using Limbo that causes the issues here.  It's the lack of care/forethought of the Limbo players themselves that is the root of the problems.  Being able to explicitly force a very specific gameplay style down other players' throats is a very real problem.

For an example;  It would be like if Ivara using her Prowl also forced all allies within 50m to also slow down to a walking speed too.  Or if Banshee using Sound Quake also rooted allies in place.

[LazyKnight]

43 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I hate how people blame Limbo for their unwillingness to put a little thought into their play. None of these problems are real.

I hate it when someone assume thought wasn't put into their play. And it's a video game it's all abstract. What a great observation that's not a real problem. Thanks for dismissing a problem.

What I am unwilling to do is play around someone else's limbo. And with Limbo, there is the good limbo that is an AFK session and with a bad one there is endless frustration. I have zero incentive to give any limbo even the slightest bit of slack due to distaste with both outcomes.

Edited April 26, 2017 by LazyKnight

[Vance.Stubbs]

12 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

snip

Thank you for your post. I've yet to meet a decent Limbo in a pub, but now I at least have some hope.

[DreamsmithJane]

14 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

Yeah, except that Limbo crap effectivly shuts down several Warframes completely, like Chroma, who relies on getting damaged constantly or Inaros, who relies on finishers to heal himself. Or sniper gameplay, I adore it so much when that Tech I aimed at gets randomly banished just before I charged my Lanka.

 

2 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

You've got it completely backwards.  It's not an unwillingness to put in thought that's present in those not using Limbo that causes the issues here.  It's the lack of care/forethought of the Limbo players themselves that is the root of the problems.  Being able to explicitly force a very specific gameplay style down other players' throats is a very real problem.

For an example;  It would be like if Ivara using her Prowl also forced all allies within 50m to also slow down to a walking speed too.  Or if Banshee using Sound Quake also rooted allies in place.

Oh. So nobody else ever ragdolls enemies, slows them to a crawl, stops them from attacking/moving, forces animations that prevent finishers, or blocks or redirects gunfire for any length of time? It's just Limbo? I see...

You are both liars. XD All frames have powers that significantly change the conditions of the game and require all other players to react in significant ways. It is entirely about the willingness to do that. Why is Limbo special? No, he doesn't alter how your inputs function. He alters the environment, and you adapt, just like he has to adapt to whatever you're doing.

7 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

What I am unwilling to do is play around someone else's limbo. And with Limbo there is the good limbo that is an AFK session and a bad one is endless frustration. I have zero incentive to give any limbo even the slightest bit of slack due to distaste with both outcomes.

No...now that he no longer nukes everything, Limbo does not create "AFK sessions". In no way does Limbo prevent you from participating in the game. You choose not to, when he's there, and that is entirely up to you.

[Vance.Stubbs]

2 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

 

Oh. So nobody else ever ragdolls enemies, slows them to a crawl, stops them from attacking/moving, forces animations that prevent finishers, or blocks or redirects gunfire for any length of time? It's just Limbo? I see...

You are both liars. XD All frames have powers that significantly change the conditions of the game and require all other players to react in significant ways. It is entirely about the willingness to do that. Why is Limbo special? No, he doesn't alter how your inputs function. He alters the environment, and you adapt, just like he has to adapt to whatever you're doing.

No...now that he no longer nukes everything, Limbo does not create "AFK sessions". In no way does Limbo prevent you from participating in the game. You choose not to, when he's there, and that is entirely up to you.

I only see that our "intelligent" Dreamsmith somehow lacking ability to compare provided kits in the game. Strange, how do you recommend players to "put some thought" while you can't see that other Warframe impact on shutting down other players is NOWHERE NEAR to what Limbo can do. I don't mind Nova's Slow or Loki's Disarm. At least it helps killing enemies faster without being forced to play how these Warframes want you to.

Anyway, I don't see a point in continuing arguing. The amount of selt-entitlement and mansplaining in yours and some other posters' in this thread is unbearable and it won't get anyone to a consensus.

 

Spoiler

Limbo was a mistake and shouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

[LazyKnight]

8 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

No...now that he no longer nukes everything, Limbo does not create "AFK sessions". In no way does Limbo prevent you from participating in the game. You choose not to, when he's there, and that is entirely up to you.

You're on my ignore list. Bye.

[PsiWarp]

1 minute ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Why is Limbo special? No, he doesn't alter how your inputs function. He alters the environment, and you adapt, just like he has to adapt to whatever you're doing.

Because he can force you to waste energy trying to kill cross-plane enemies, waste ammo trying to shoot in the Rift, roll constantly because Banish is spammable and indiscriminately targets allies and enemies, pull friendly Limbos out of the Rift with Banish and Cataclysm, prevent interaction with activated objects under Cataclysm... the list goes on. These aren't just drawbacks to using the Rift, these are penalties enforced not just on Limbo, but on his entire team.

Place one too many restrictions on the wrong people while the remote control belongs to only 1 player, and you have a recipe for fun-killing frame whose name is stained by the blood, sweat and tears of people smashing that abort mission button.

[Evanescent]

Like I keep saying, Limbo is made for premade groups and solo.

People in PUGs will whine and *@##$. Don't bother trying to get them to co-operate. It never really occurs to people (both Limbos and other players) that either side could, you know, adjust their strategies and work together? No? Too much to ask I guess.  

There is such a fixation on 'let me play my way' that I find bewildering. Why join a co-op situation if you want to do your own thing? Isn't that what solo is for? If you aren't going to try and work out synergies or work together then really, you have no call throwing a tantrum about trolling. 

It is so ironic that people would rather become trolls to harass the Limbo rather than try to work with him. 'Limbo's don't read chat'. Well, I can tell you most of the time no-one bloody reads chat. No one. How many 'gg's do you see after a mission? People thanking after being revived has become a rarity. When was the last time I found people talking in group chat? (To be fair, with how the chat is designed it's hard to keep looking back when the action is hectic and it fades so quickly, it's not fully on the players.)

I've never really seen any of this supposed army of Limbo trolls making PUGs a hell. Not a lot of people have Limbo or play him, even after rework, especially after the Cataclysm bandwagon got axed to oblivion. This of course is one the main reasons he is seen as such a griefer. How can you know how he can help you if you've never played him?

So, you're a Limbo, play in a group of friends or play solo. If you have to PUG, just be passive. Sometimes you will find nice people who know how to make use of you. Most of the time people will rather their pod gets destroyed than you try to protect it. Don't use powers in situations where it's redundant, like your cataclysm when there is already a frost using snowglobe in low end missions. And rez people if you can, thankless or not.

If you absolutely must play him in PUGs I recommend going for  high duration, low range cataclysms. Place in chokepoints, quickly freeze and wipe enemies (atterax is recommended, or any melee with good reach really. Or you could quickly set up bullets for each and close stasis).

 

 

[Quanlain]

Well, before Limbo used to be just a black sheep, now any thread about Limbo turns into holywar thread, what a shame.

the reality is, as it was already said: before Limbo mains were able to play without huge impact on other's gameplay. Now this impact is forced for both sides. I play Limbo with no intention to banish teammates or grief in any way what so ever, but DE thought that forcing warframe with really contriversial mechanics to teamplay was a good idea (i wish DE had QA testers besides staff). Now it's plain uncomfortable to play with Limbo, or to play as Limbo with anyone.

I've dropped my radius down and duration even lower, just so my teammates would not die of heart attack
while banished, but it still does not help me nor my teammates.
IMHO, Limbo could use some more thinking before reworking, because the problem is not with his skillset, problem is in his core concept of beign bidemensional. There is no way you can fix him and make him viable at the same time and left his core concept unchanged.

[Bobtm]

13 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

You are both liars. XD All frames have powers that significantly change the conditions of the game and require all other players to react in significant ways. It is entirely about the willingness to do that. Why is Limbo special? No, he doesn't alter how your inputs function. He alters the environment, and you adapt, just like he has to adapt to whatever you're doing.

Just as a starting point;  There is no reason at all to call someone a liar over a divergence in viewpoints.  Not only is it unnecessary, but it will invariably lead to a downtrend in any given discussion once namecalling is on the table.

To focus in on one line here;

15 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Why is Limbo special? No, he doesn't alter how your inputs function.

This is explicitly and blatantly false.  The normal functionality of the fire input (to fire a primary or secondary weapon) is for the weapon's shot, be it hitscan or projectile, to exit the chosen weapon and then travel along its path to strike a given target with a very expected flight time, if applicable.  Limbo's 2 quite literally impedes this function.  It is a direct alteration on the input/output function.

You claim that folks should "adapt" to play around Limbo.  To put it very plainly, there is no adapting.  You can't do anything to modify the functionality locks that Limbo generates at all.  He operates with a set of hard rules of what does and does not cross the Rift plane.  And his Stasis hard-stops all gunfire when active, period.

Whacking frozen statue enemies with melee because you're not allowed to use guns any longer is not intelligent or adaptive play.  It's play that is being arbitrarily restricted by one of your allies, for no apparent reason.

23 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Oh. So nobody else ever ragdolls enemies, slows them to a crawl, stops them from attacking/moving, forces animations that prevent finishers, or blocks or redirects gunfire for any length of time? It's just Limbo? I see...

Did I say that only Limbo is obtrusive?  No, no I did not.  What I did say however is that his current kit is very easy to be obtrusive with.  To the point where the trolls troll with Limbo, those who don't wish to troll with Limbo often do so entirely on accident.  And even those who have zero desire to troll as Limbo will occasionally slip up and be an annoyance to allies.

In a game with a lot of players actively trying to do things and kill stuff, you will find conflicts amidst the field of play.  An enemy being sniped right before you launch the attack you just got done charging via a bow or other weapon with lag on startup.  An enemy being ragdolled or knocked down causing you to miss.  These kinds of conflicts are totally normal during multiplayer play, especially in a game like Warframe.  However, it's about scale and consistency.

If a Limbo player uses very high duration and range, they can lock down a very, very large area where nobody can shoot guns, period.  The scale and consistency of this interruption massively dwarfs everything else currently in-game that lay within the realm of obtrusive play.  You note "slowing enemies/stopping them" and that's something that has been removed in a lot of instances.  Mirage's old 4 used to hard-blind all enemies in the entire map permanently.  Long before that, Excaliber's 2 used to do the exact same thing.  Mag's 2 can redirect gunfire, but in a very small area within strict limitations.  Frost's 3 too can block allied gunfire, but also in a very small area total and with strict limitations upon it.

As for the animation lock issue, that's a longstanding mechanical issue across all of Warframe.  Also with regards to Finishers directly, next to no animations will block Finisher eligibility.  You can event use a standing Finisher on an enemy that is lying upon the ground.  Most (if not all) Finisher openers will override other animation locks and let you do them anyways.

Every argument you're trying to put forth in regards to this specific problem is missing the mark by a very wide margin.

[Fallen_Echo]

The whole plane mechanics needs to be reworked. A bad limbo can screw your gameplay up big time and even a good one in the right missions can become useless if his teammates are builded for rifle strategies.

9 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

If you have to PUG, just be passive.

Because all we need is more afk leechers in pug matches. This is not fixing the problem this just getting around it.

The idea of the plane system is horrible.

I suggest either an augement (mandatory one) or a change to rift surge what makes allies able to attack enemies on all planes. This would fix atleast 50% of our problems.

The other would be to remove the bullet stop effect altogether from stasis. Its pointless.