[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[main_antagonist]

22 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

I was playing Limbo as a client just now, a New Loka assassination squad of eximus Ancients turned up and my powers didn't work on them figured I'd report it here! 

 

19 hours ago, Demon.King said:

Apparently that's intended for some reason.

But why XD ???

 

[achromos]

5 hours ago, Ozent said:

I'm pretty sure there's a video about this, iirc it doesnt give energy when closing the cataclysm

Limbo has a additional passive.  When a enemy dies In his rift he regains energy.  Enemies Dying from dropping the rift applies to this.

[low1991]

18 hours ago, LightningAWG said:

Can someone explain me why people want his 4th ability to get nerfed because it scales? I am pretty sure that about 99% of the community aren´t even playing high level where this damage outperforms their weapons.

Here's my question to you. If Frame A got nerf'ed because of zxy problem in the same QQ community/forum. A few months later, DE buff Frame B to the same position Frame A once has, what will you do?

(With the all energy cost irrelevant, as there are ways to cover the costs)

[MarkGumGear]

yes right and also when limbo is in cataclysm the energy recharge. Even if there is some eximus enemy, Limbo win XD

[EinheriarJudith]

18 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

And that was why Limbo sucked before rework. He was only useful in rescue,sortie defense, kuva siphon and Kela De Thaym. He barely survived against multiple lvl 50+ enemies if you want to play like everyone else and not hide in rift forever. Would you want him to be a trash frame again?

you forgot spy, mobile defense, defense, and interception. limbo was far from useless before the rework. in survival limbos picked out priority targets, killed them, and got people up if they went down. he does all of this still but is more intrusive with stasis, and that rift portal he leaves behind. the cata spammers are just like the people spamming prism for blind or how mag used to spam polarize to instant kill corpus etc. i stopped playing saryn before her rework because the miasma spam disgusted me and it got changed because it disgusted ALOT of people.

Edited April 7, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Fallen_Echo]

I have something what should decrease the salt here by 50%.

Make allies by able to kill enemies in the rift at the cost of leaving the rift and vice versa. With this the main problems people have with limbo will go away.

[Pro3Display]

7 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Here's my question to you. If Frame A got nerf'ed because of zxy problem in the same QQ community/forum. A few months later, DE buff Frame B to the same position Frame A once has, what will you do?

(With the all energy cost irrelevant, as there are ways to cover the costs)

you probably mean

Frame A gets released, QQ comunity/forum makes it a problem, Frame A gets nerfed, Frame B gets released with the same idea as in A, QQ comunity/forum makes it a problem...

idk, de either should stop listening to qq forum or avoid releasing stuff that recurringly results in a forum op-nerf backlash, it's getting really silly now

[Fallen_Echo]

I have a simple aolution what could make limbo a squad friendly frame.

Currently when you get banished by any way (banish cone fire effect) or enter the rift you have to perform additional action to leave it to continue fighting.

My idea is that by using any weapon or skill you now can pull out yourself or the enemy from the rift. Limbo is the master ofnthe rift so he can control whats happening inside or outside.

This will fix most confusion and annoyance people feel when a limbo joins their team.

[-Temp0-]

Freaking. Roll out of it (that being said with his new abilities no one tries to banish teammates any longer anyway)

It is way way easier than performing a backflip if you want to escape volt's speed boost. Although not having a simple button in the options which would allow us to opt out of those kind of buffs or abilities is like seriously.

Edited April 7, 2017 by -Temp0-

[low1991]

15 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

you probably mean

Frame A gets released, QQ comunity/forum makes it a problem, Frame A gets nerfed, Frame B gets released with the same idea as in A, QQ comunity/forum makes it a problem...

idk, de either should stop listening to qq forum or avoid releasing stuff that recurringly results in a forum op-nerf backlash, it's getting really silly now

It's depends on how you read it. But ya, it's what i'm trying to say/post.

If DE stop listening to QQ (which is in forum & also considered as somewhat a feedback), DE worn't be improving their own game much. *Same for the 2nd part*

Sounds logical if i were to put a "chicken or the egg come" first logic/concept?

Edited April 7, 2017 by low1991

[Fallen_Echo]

9 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Freaking. Roll out of it (that being said with his new abilities no one tries to banish teammates any longer anyway)

It is way way easier than performing a backflip if you want to escape volt's speed boost. Although not having a simple button in the options which would allow us to opt out of those kind of buffs or abilities is like seriously.

Surely you can do that but isnt it better to continue going on like nothing happened?

One of the main complaint agains limbo is that people dont want to be IN the rift if it forces them to perform additional actions.

[DinendalMinyatur]

56 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you forgot spy, mobile defense, defense, and interception. limbo was far from useless before the rework. in survival limbos picked out priority targets, killed them, and got people up if they went down. he does all of this still but is more intrusive with stasis, and that rift portal he leaves behind. the cata spammers are just like the people spamming prism for blind or how mag used to spam polarize to instant kill corpus etc. i stopped playing saryn before her rework because the miasma spam disgusted me and it got changed because it disgusted ALOT of people.

Right I hate Cata spammers, and cata should be nerfed asap. Stasis can be tweaked to be less intrusive. E.g "Make it channeling but it wont stop projectiles anymore"

However I only agree with Spy and reviving allies. For other missions limbo can protect defense objects with bubble but  again people complained of visual effects and unable to pick up inside cataclysm. People would again complain that he was intrusive: "Go get a Frost it's way better" that's what they said.

Only I did Mesa+Limbo combo with my friend on sortie Mobile Defense and It was pretty boring for me. I just cast Cata and wait for mesa to murder everyone. What a great gameplay.

Also picking up targets one by one a horde-shooter game is somewhat clunky imo. On low to mid tier lvls everyone with a decent weapon can murder hordes.  Priority targets become a thing on high lvl missions which sometimes even ground finisher damage cant kill a high hp target in one shot.

Though I'm curious how did you use Limbo on interception? I rather prefer a high dps or a cc frame for interception. How did limbo work on Interception before re-work?

Edited April 7, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur

[chaotea]

21 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

My idea is that by using any weapon or skill you now can pull out yourself or the enemy from the rift.

This means that while in the rift you wont be able to attack enemies alots in the rift, its a bad idea.

Rolling works fine for me, and while i'd be happy for something else to be implemented, it would have to be something that doesnt break limbos co-operative abilitites.

[-Temp0-]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Surely you can do that but isnt it better to continue going on like nothing happened?

Again tell it to Volt players and same logic applies. And yet Volt's speed was so annoying that once they did exactly that, made people that want buff to pick it up but later changed it  once again so it have to be the people that don't want teh buff to perform idiotic moves to get rid of it.Because "logic" "who wouldn't want to move at 1,5-2,5x speed am I right"

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Though I'm curious how did you use Limbo on interception? I rather prefer a high dps or a cc frame for interception. How did limbo work on Interception before re-work?

the same way i did with defense only instead of large bubble i used used one that could cover the terminals and just killed anything that entered with rift surge buff going if they manage to walk up in lol usually the ones that walk to the terminal dont bother shooting so i wasnt in any danger. funny that even though DE made capping points faster for the enemy they still behave the same. i really miss being able to stay in the rift after cata collapse it was a good way to kill things inside and if it got to hot you just collapse cata.

Edited April 7, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Torhque]

They could reverse the logic and require squadmates to roll through the Rift tears Limbo leaves behind when he "Dodges"

[chaotea]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

One of the main complaint agains limbo is that people dont want to be IN the rift if it forces them to perform additional actions.

People still want to be able to take actions while in the rift though. Also, as allies have to enter the rift via the tear now, its not a big issue. If you mean cataclysm, i dont think you can leave the rift while inside its area anyway.

[chaotea]

Just now, Torhque said:

They could reverse the logic and require squadmates to roll through the Rift tears Limbo leaves behind when he "Dodges"

Its super easy to just walk around the tear though, so i dont think its an issue.

[DinendalMinyatur]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the same way i did with defense only instead of large bubble i used used one that could cover the terminals and just killed anything that entered with rift surge buff going if they manage to walk up in lol usually the ones that walk to the terminal dont bother shooting so i wasnt in any danger. funny that even though DE made capping points faster for the enemy they still behave the same.

Then a nullifier comes in and his detron mates one shots you

 Jokes aside are we playing the same game? If I do that I'm pretty sure there will be multiple enemies stuff themselves into that bubble and will down me before I kill them. Normally you expect them to just shoot you right? No somehow when I play AI becomes smarter. Goes in bubble to just kill me (I mean when I'm outside the bubble and rift walking)

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, Darkuhn said:

you could also make its % based dmg scale negative with powerrange, so that a huge cataclysm would be not as effective as an concentrated one.

This would even prevent some problems that other team members have with the combination of Cataclysm and Stasis.

Like not being able to shoot any enemy on the map because of the excessive use of huge Cataclysms. 

It could also give Cataclysm a more tactical use.

Great idea, that should remove the spammability and still keep it useful. Of course, it would depend how it's done. It should be like 1% at max size and grow to 10% at min size, or something like that, since at max size you have more enemies for damage.

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Then a nullifier comes in and his detron mates one shots you

 Jokes aside are we playing the same game? If I do that I'm pretty sure there will be multiple enemies stuff themselves into that bubble and will down me before I kill them. Normally you expect them to just shoot you right? No somehow when I play AI becomes smarter. Goes in bubble to just kill me (I mean when I'm outside the bubble and rift walking)

hahaha. there was a interception  alert up recently i was playing oberon and enemies blew past me at mack 1 just to hit the console i thought it was hilarious for a moment then used reckoning. i was using amprex back then with great success lol they go into the bubble and get melted by the beam. now you only need use stasis when you use cata and just sit there. i think its become boring now for point defense because of that or atleast his solo is hardcore now with the rework.

Edited April 7, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

-snip-

like i mentioned, those people are on US servers intentionaly. 

Feel free to visit other servers too. Just change your system language.

[Xekrin]

49 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Rolling works fine for me

LOL, yeah it works fine but whats really fun is having to roll 5 times in less than a minute while standing actually trying to shoot a group or melee attacking.  So great.

Of course this is all moot because its rare now to see a limbo using his 1st ability, its just 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4.

[Music4Therapy]

There are 3 major issues with Limbo's 4 and why I believe it should be nerfed:

1) A frame with his defensive capabilities should not have that much offensive potential. He does too much way to well. He is a jack of all trades, master of a few. He also scales infinitely both offensively and defensively, only 3 other frames do so: Ivara, Ash, and Wukong. Ivara and Ash can avoid taking damage through stealth and can abuse Covert Lethality. Wukong has Defy and can also abuse CL. The issue here is that Limbo can apply his infinitely scaling defensive capabilities to allies/objectives and his infinitely scaling offense is applied in a massive radius. Take away the scaling from his 4 and he is still top tier due to his defensive capabilities and the fact his 2 (stasis) allows status effects to last infinitely (been abusing slash proc based builds using that method). He also has amazing CC. Basically, his kit is overloaded.

2) In addition to the above, his energy regen is absurd. 2 energy per second in the rift and the 10 energy provided by enemy kills is too much in conjunction with the raw killing potential of his 4. You can either keep his 4 the same or take away the energy gain from kills to balance this.

3) In addition to his infinite scaling in both aspects of offense and defense and near infinite self sustaining capabilities, his abilities require no build up. For example, it takes time and/or teamwork to build damage for a comparable ability, Equinox's Maim or Nova's 2. Limbo, however, can just press 4 twice quickly and he has wiped a room full of enemies from existence.

 

This is coming for the aspect of an endurance player, no matter what level the enemies are Limbo will destroy the infested without retaliation. He is able to prevent the Grineer from doing anything and kill them with slash procs that last infinitely via the use of his 2. His Cataclysm damage nullifier bubbles and absolutely wrecks the whole corpus faction. The only time a skilled Limbo player has a chance of dying is against the corrupted, and even then with Naramon school that chance of death goes away. 

How would I go about fixing this? I'd do one or a combination of 4 things:

1) Remove the scaling damage from his 4 so his offensive potential isn't so insane.

2) Remove the energy gain from killing enemies to prevent Cataclysm spam.

3) Make his Cataclysm end prematurely/explode if more than X amount of enemies are inside of it. This would allow him to maintain his offensive potential at the cost of his defensive potential. It would be a trade off.

4) Do a combination of the above but give the old damage multiplier from his 3 back, but merge it with his Cataclysm so that while in the Rift/his Cataclysm is up his damage is given a multiplier of X

Edited April 7, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Music4Therapy]

First, a list of issues with the frame and a summary of him. Then, a list of proposed solutions.

1) A frame with his defensive capabilities should not have that much offensive potential. He does too much way to well. He is a jack of all trades, master of a few. He also scales infinitely both offensively and defensively, only 3 other frames do so: Ivara, Ash, and Wukong. Ivara and Ash can avoid taking damage through stealth and can abuse Covert Lethality. Wukong has Defy and can also abuse CL. The issue here is that Limbo can apply his infinitely scaling defensive capabilities to allies/objectives and his infinitely scaling offense is applied in a massive radius. Take away the scaling from his 4 and he is still top tier due to his defensive capabilities and the fact his 2 (stasis) allows status effects to last infinitely (been abusing slash proc based builds using that method). He also has amazing CC. Basically, his kit is overloaded.

2) In addition to the above, his energy regen is absurd. 2 energy per second in the rift and the 10 energy provided by enemy kills is too much in conjunction with the raw killing potential of his 4. You can either keep his 4 the same or take away the energy gain from kills to balance this.

3) In addition to his infinite scaling in both aspects of offense and defense and near infinite self sustaining capabilities, his abilities require no build up. For example, it takes time and/or teamwork to build damage for a comparable ability to Cataclysm; Equinox's Maim or Nova's 2. Limbo, however, can just press 4 twice quickly and he has wiped a room full of enemies from existence.

 

This is coming for the aspect of an endurance player, no matter what level the enemies are Limbo will destroy the infested without retaliation. He is able to prevent the Grineer from doing anything and kill them with slash procs that last infinitely via the use of his 2. His Cataclysm damage nullifier bubbles and absolutely wrecks the whole corpus faction. The only time a skilled Limbo player has a chance of dying is against the corrupted, and even then with Naramon school that chance of death goes away. 

How would I go about fixing this? I'd do one or a combination of 4 things:

1) Remove the scaling damage from his 4 so his offensive potential isn't so insane.

2) Remove the energy gain from killing enemies to prevent Cataclysm spam.

3) Make his Cataclysm end prematurely/explode if more than X amount of enemies are inside of it. This would allow him to maintain his offensive potential at the cost of his defensive potential. It would be a trade off.

4) Do a combination of the above but give the old damage multiplier from his 3 back, but merge it with his Cataclysm so that while in the Rift/his Cataclysm is up his damage is given a multiplier of X