Harrow feedback and discussion

[KX297]

6 hours ago, Erl-King said:

You can see in Devstream 92 that energy restored only on headshot kills, not just any headshots. It is unclear though if it restores energy for all in range and only Harrow could start energy gain or energy reward goes only to those who makes headshot kills, or maybe combination of those.

Either way it is way way worse than Energy Vampire in almost every aspect.
 

This ^

 

I'm really tired of Trinity being the only frame who can give energy. 

I'd like to see Harrow change this. Maybe he will. 

[SubjectShadow]

It's a bit weird to me that there is no forum post about this topic (or I wasn't able to find it/them) but am I the only one that thinks that Harrow is a big wasted opportunity in terms of his general idea and what it became?

First off: His look is great. I like it a lot! Really, nothing to complain here. It's a bit weird to me that he has this pharao-beard similar to Inaros hence he is based on ... some kind of a priest? There were priests in egypt as well but if they were carriing these insence burners? I have no clue. He seems a bit mixed but what ever. Like it anyway!

Second: The correlation of his abilityset and (initial) theme... so this is basically where my hype ended in an instant. I mean: When thinking about a priest, at which point do headshots come into my mind...?
His concept art and the way his theme and idea where described and presented, it sounded more like he is about sacrifice: himself or enemies? Doing stuff that harms himself and helps the squad? Or getting spirits to fight along his side. Something with a holy-based theme... something like a fallen priest in a fantasy universe. I can't be the only one who had that thought!
Maybe draining energy from the dead, absorbing spirits to use abilities that either harm enemies or buff up the squad, I don't know. The range of things that would have been possible and plausible is immense!
But all of that went into the crapper and now we get a frame about headshots... great. I wont even start a discussion about whether his current set of abilities is worth it and functional in the current iteration of the game. I don't think people give a damn about headshots. Maybe it will be usefull against very highlevel enemies but how many people do actually fight those outside of sorties? I am not playing all that much atm but I guess it's still all about getting enemies to explode as fast and efficient as possible and a frame like Harrow isn't working in that scenario at all!

But that isn't even my point. I want to stress that this is a big waste in my eyes. There was a lot of potential for a very unique and special theme! The artwork showed and rose a very spiritual-based frame aaaaand... we get a WH40k Inquisitor now... welp!
Don't get me wrong I like my WH40k and the emperor protects and heretics shall burn in the holy flames of the exterminatus... but Harrow as he currently is could as well.

So I really hope that, as he currently is, Harrow isn't released into the game and that DE reworks this.
Btw.: The only ability I think is cool atm is his first. The shakle. That's a really neet thing! Not unique in it's idea but very well implemented.
Sadly the rest isn't... btw. the animations on his third ability look... meh... very stiff and kinda off... that's not how a priest would whiggle is insense burner... that's how Bruce Lee walks around with a Nunchaku when he's surrounded by a group of enemies...

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, SubjectShadow said:

It's a bit weird to me that there is no forum post about this topic (or I wasn't able to find it/them) but am I the only one that thinks that Harrow is a big wasted opportunity in terms of his general idea and what it became?

First off: His look is great. I like it a lot! Really, nothing to complain here. It's a bit weird to me that he has this pharao-beard similar to Inaros hence he is based on ... some kind of a priest? There were priests in egypt as well but if they were carriing these insence burners? I have no clue. He seems a bit mixed but what ever. Like it anyway!

Second: The correlation of his abilityset and (initial) theme... so this is basically where my hype ended in an instant. I mean: When thinking about a priest, at which point do headshots come into my mind...?
His concept art and the way his theme and idea where described and presented, it sounded more like he is about sacrifice: himself or enemies? Doing stuff that harms himself and helps the squad? Or getting spirits to fight along his side. Something with a holy-based theme... something like a fallen priest in a fantasy universe. I can't be the only one who had that thought!

Well, actually lots of people have said the same thing already. Their posts are just all organized in one big megathread about Harrow.

The other thing is, the headshot thing? Yeah, they said that from the very beginning, before anyone even said the word priest. In the very first devstream that said anything about him, they talked about him requiring precision shooting. He was always going to be a sharpshooter. It is a continuous source of amazement to me that so many people watched that devstream, heard "priest" (even though DE cautioned that like all their frames, the priest thing was only part of his theme, and people shouldn't read too far into it), and somehow didn't hear the part before that about "precision shooting". 

I get that some people don't like the precision shooting thing, but I don't get how so many people are surprised by it, when DE said it upfront. 

People also heard the phrase "sacrifices himself to save allies" with literally nothing else, no explanation, let their imaginations run wild that he would like, IDK, actually GO DOWN to stop an ally from dying or something, as an ability, and were super disappointed that their imaginings weren't fit by the final product. 

I get that some people won't like every ability set, but I feel a lot of people this time around haven't given the ability set a real chance, because they hyper focused on the word "priest", made a bunch of speculations, and are upset that he isn't a generic priest archetype in terms of abilities. 

[Arezael]

Honestly? I'd rather wait for him to be released and then pass judgement after having played the Frame for a while, probably even after putting a few Forma to give him a little more room to work with.

That being said I've only seen the artwork and text description so far, and I quite like it. 

[PsiWarp]

He may be based on a priest, but knowing which Syndicate he is affiliated with should clue you in on why he is the way he is. Red Veil, bunch of fanatics who see corruption everywhere, equipped with weapons perfect for assassinations (going for the head).

In Harrow's quest, we'll meet the Veil's Deacons, a step below Priest status, so guess who's at the top of the hierarchy? A Dark Priest known as Harrow. Not sure where you got the idea of him being holier than thou, since we know the quest is more edgy and dark than Octavia's Anthem.

[Fugana]

Well they didn't over hyped Nidus and Nidus is oh mah gad
 

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Arezael said:

Honestly? I'd rather wait for him to be released and then pass judgement after having played the Frame for a while, probably even after putting a few Forma to give him a little more room to work with.

That being said I've only seen the artwork and text description so far, and I quite like it. 

It's kind of amusing to me, but all posts about Harrow are being put in a thread in the general discussion forum, and not the feedback section. 

The message from Scott couldn't be any clearer: I am not interested in feedback until you have had a chance to test the final product. I am not making major changes to what the abilities themselves do at this point. But enjoy discussing him if you wish!

[SubjectShadow]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Well, actually lots of people have said the same thing already. Their posts are just all organized in one big megathread about Harrow.

The other thing is, the headshot thing? Yeah, they said that from the very beginning, before anyone even said the word priest. In the very first devstream that said anything about him, they talked about him requiring precision shooting. He was always going to be a sharpshooter. It is a continuous source of amazement to me that so many people watched that devstream, heard "priest" (even though DE cautioned that like all their frames, the priest thing was only part of his theme, and people shouldn't read too far into it), and somehow didn't hear the part before that about "precision shooting". 

I get that some people don't like the precision shooting thing, but I don't get how so many people are surprised by it, when DE said it upfront. 

People also heard the phrase "sacrifices himself to save allies" with literally nothing else, no explanation, let their imaginations run wild that he would like, IDK, actually GO DOWN to stop an ally from dying or something, as an ability, and were super disappointed that their imaginings weren't fit by the final product. 

I get that some people won't like every ability set, but I feel a lot of people this time around haven't given the ability set a real chance, because they hyper focused on the word "priest", made a bunch of speculations, and are upset that he isn't a generic priest archetype in terms of abilities. 

Okay I didn't know about the megathread, didn't found that, sorry.

It's possible that I actually missed that, but still: Why waste the priest-theme on a damn sharpshooter? It doesn't make any sense to me! I don't even want to judge the gameplay-aspect, just gave a very vage first opinion on that. He might turn out to be a very solid frame, but still: It feels like a big waste to me. You can create so many sharpshooters, optically. Why pick a priest for that instead of creating something more fitting and using the priest for something that fit's his general idea?

[NecromancerX69]

I think some one at DE likes anime a little 2 much..... BUT

If they took the route of Alexander Anderson from Hellsing, now that would be a cool warframe priest

[Rawbeard]

10 minutes ago, SubjectShadow said:

When thinking about a priest, at which point do headshots come into my mind...?

has to be some catholic thing. I basically stopped listening once they mentioned headshots, mostly because "huh?". I was a bit curious what a "priest" frame would be, but seems it's just visuals, so I'll figure the rest out once I get to play him... instant hype killer

[JMP3]

While I agree that DE kinda dropped the ball in making abilities that actually relate to the theme he was marketed as, I do think Harrow has a very interesting kit and I look forward to using him

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, SubjectShadow said:

Okay I didn't know about the megathread, didn't found that, sorry.

It's possible that I actually missed that, but still: Why waste the priest-theme on a damn sharpshooter? It doesn't make any sense to me! I don't even want to judge the gameplay-aspect, just gave a very vage first opinion on that. He might turn out to be a very solid frame, but still: It feels like a big waste to me. You can create so many sharpshooters, optically. Why pick a priest for that instead of creating something more fitting and using the priest for something that fit's his general idea?

Well as PsiWarp pointed out above, there is actually some cool lore justification for it. Remember, he is a quest for Red Veil which is supposed to be edgy, so he is actually a DARK priest. And Red Veil are obsessed with headshots. Rakta Cernos, Rakta Ballistica, and they have one hit kill dagger. One shot/precision obsession with dark/edgy syndicate that dark/edgy priest frame is associated with. 

Think of him as a Red Veil style dark priest frame -- and the precision shooting makes more sense. I feel like they made him for Red Veil, so they did want him to fit with their weapon style, so headshots. 

[-Kryptyk-]

My entire clan and I play high level stuff literally all the time - and I mean endurance survivals up to level 330ish.  So speaking from that point of view (since you mentioned it), Harrow is probably the most underwhelming thing I've seen from DE yet, and he won't last a second in those levels.  I was expecting the same - something as sinister as nekros was meant to be, especially with Red Veil, and he has so much potential for synergies that's being wasted.

As far as the headshot mechanic, it's so impractical.  Even with his *small* cc, you do what....? stand there and take your jolly time with headshots?  And how do you get energy from headshots - by standing there holding your 3 for like, ten seconds.  In half a second, you're dead in this game.  You can literally be one-shotted from something completely random, even in mid tier levels.

As far as sacrificing shields?  Most of the time, I'm running with low or no shields at all, simply because, again, everything destroys shields.  So yeah, I'm super skeptical, and his theme doesn't fit his abilities, but we'll see.  I'll probably play him for a week, then go back to frames that do better at what he's supposed to do.  Same happened with Titania.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, NecromancerX69 said:

I think some one at DE likes anime a little 2 much..... BUT

If they took the route of Alexander Anderson from Hellsing, now that would be a cool warframe priest

and im fine with that ..oddly enough 

but #34 is going to be ..funny 

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, SubjectShadow said:

Why pick a priest for that instead of creating something more fitting and using the priest for something that fit's his general idea?

Why do so many people have a stereotypical idea of what a priest frame should be in Warframe? This is hardly the first time a priest has been linked with guns, as commented above. Why go the boring old done-over priest idea that every game seems to do and not go for something actually more unique?

[SubjectShadow]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Why do so many people have a stereotypical idea of what a priest frame should be in Warframe? This is hardly the first time a priest has been linked with guns, as commented above. Why go the boring old done-over priest idea that every game seems to do and not go for something actually more unique?

Yeah well because the artwork implied that directly in my opinion.
Also: 'Let's base every ability around headshots' is hardly 'unique' in my eyes...

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Why do so many people have a stereotypical idea of what a priest frame should be in Warframe? This is hardly the first time a priest has been linked with guns, as commented above. Why go the boring old done-over priest idea that every game seems to do and not go for something actually more unique?

Shattered expectations are the reason for the complaints imo. People just threw out everything DE said about the frame besides "priest". Most expected a really generic healer I think. Someone who would be like, a male healer who was as uber at healing as Trinity. Instead DE did yet anther hybrid frame because they love hybrid themes. And understandably, I guess, a lot of people are disappointed. 

[NecromancerX69]

1 minute ago, -NvO-Venom said:

My entire clan and I play high level stuff literally all the time - and I mean endurance survivals up to level 330ish.  So speaking from that point of view (since you mentioned it), Harrow is probably the most underwhelming thing I've seen from DE yet, and he won't last a second in those levels.  I was expecting the same - something as sinister as nekros was meant to be, especially with Red Veil, and he has so much potential for synergies that's being wasted.

As far as the headshot mechanic, it's so impractical.  Even with his *small* cc, you do what....? stand there and take your jolly time with headshots?  And how do you get energy from headshots - by standing there holding your 3 for like, ten seconds.  In half a second, you're dead in this game.  You can literally be one-shotted from something completely random, even in mid tier levels.

As far as sacrificing shields?  Most of the time, I'm running with low or no shields at all, simply because, again, everything destroys shields.  So yeah, I'm super skeptical, and his theme doesn't fit his abilities, but we'll see.  I'll probably play him for a week, then go back to frames that do better at what he's supposed to do.  Same happened with Titania.

Don't forget we have Zenurik / Pizza, so the need to recover energy is a waste of ability his third... Specially since it's no EV.

[-Kryptyk-]

3 minutes ago, NecromancerX69 said:

Don't forget we have Zenurik / Pizza, so the need to recover energy is a waste of ability his third... Specially since it's no EV.

right?  I sunk resources into 1000 large energy restores and still needed a resource dump, since they're so cheap.  They also give way more energy than Harrow does.  The only thing I can think of is possibly using the dual toxocysts to get the headshots faster, but they aren't powerful enough for late game.

[DxAdder]

The #1 power looks useful the rest is useless. will be a 1 trick pony.

 

 

[Almagnus1]

DE totally should have named this guy Dante instead of Harrow...  Dante just sounds so much better (referencing Dante's Divine Comedy) as Harrow makes me think of http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Haro and someone mispronouncing "hello" "Harrow".

[PsiWarp]

I feel like Thurible (#3) should do a bit more than just energy gain on headshot kill, since all his other powers are multi-functional. #1 CCs in a line and gives shields/Overshields, #2 gives weapon fire rate + reload speed bonuses & heals, #4 gives brief invulnerability then a crit chance buff...

#3 pales in comparison because of how slow it is to accomplish its one function. Hold button 3 to drain energy, presumably cannot use weapons while swinging that Thurible, release to place a stationary energy fountain down, stay in range and get headshots, if you kill with a headshot then you get energy. I hope the energy gain at least stacks with multiple Thuribles if you're in range of them at the same time.

But yeah, some kind of buff like an armor bonus while near a Thurible would be nice to help survive while trying to aim and headshot.

[Tesseract7777]

37 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

I feel like Thurible (#3) should do a bit more than just energy gain on headshot kill, since all his other powers are multi-functional. #1 CCs in a line and gives shields/Overshields, #2 gives weapon fire rate + reload speed bonuses & heals, #4 gives brief invulnerability then a crit chance buff...

#3 pales in comparison because of how slow it is to accomplish its one function. Hold button 3 to drain energy, presumably cannot use weapons while swinging that Thurible, release to place a stationary energy fountain down, stay in range and get headshots, if you kill with a headshot then you get energy. I hope the energy gain at least stacks with multiple Thuribles if you're in range of them at the same time.

But yeah, some kind of buff like an armor bonus while near a Thurible would be nice to help survive while trying to aim and headshot.

Or standing in it gives you shields/shield regen or something. 

[GOLANX]

Harrow seems to me to be more of a Sniper frame than a Priest, i have no issue with a offensivbe priest but please don't call that ability set on a frame a priest, develop that set along with another invisibility and turn it into a new sniper frame with Sniper 3.0.  as it is now snipers are too far down the totem pole, and there is no emphasis on using accurate weapons, Bows arn't much better off than snipers.

What i wanted to see in harrow was a warframe that would make use of our Morality Meter, he would be almost like an equinox except he cant change in mission and his abilities are based on weather you are sun, moon, or Balance.  balancing him so he doesn't have equinoxes failings with the inability to switch forms causing lots of salt would be hard, but come on those are the challenges that are fun that make you think, test, retest. think some more, and in the process have fun.

this sniperframe doesn't fill me with much hope, they have to give sniper weapons a hard look before they work on a sniper frame.

[PsiWarp]

30 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Or standing in it gives you shields/shield regen or something. 

Actually that's a good idea, Harrow already gives health, energy, invulnerability, why not shields too? Like an AoE Arcane Aegis.