Cycron feedback

[Drufo]

1 hour ago, Mover-NeRo said:

I would like reload delay about 0,5 sec and reload time from 0 to 20 in 4-5 sec. That would mean you can actually mange your drain and not get punished by firing in short bursts.

This seems a good idea.

[--Blame--]

Weapons that ammunition repose is a very interesting mechanic mainly for beginner players in the game who spend all their ammo in fights against Boss. There should be 1 or 2 weapons like this in the market for those who are new on warframe

[Ditto132]

I anticipated that the reload mechanic would be similar to that of ArchWing, but it seems to be worse.
I enjoyed the ArchWing reload mechanic, since pausing for a brief moment when fully depleted to replenish a few ammo to get a few shots at the enemies can be pretty satisfying.

When I first saw this:

I was pretty excited. I was like "Wow, we get a mini energy disc throwing panthera as a secondary" and "mini exalted blade".
Something like these:

I went from excitement to disappointment when I saw this:

 

Personally, I prefer projectile weapons(especially with ragdoll physics XD) to beam weapons.
And the 5 second reload delay with 20 ammo compared to Soma's 3 second reload with 100 ammo, is just ridiculous.

[JalakBali]

22 hours ago, Sketch065 said:

Secondaries in this game serve more like a second choice and not a solution for being too inpatient to wait for reload.

Except we literally have an entire faction whose weakness is switching of weapons. Secondaries are not supposed to be only as an alternative. They're not there just so we could switch if we're bored using one gun. Or bring one god-killing weapon and one fun one. Or bring one crap weapon to level while the other in case Stalker shows up. Secondaries are for when your primary is not available, like when their mag is dry. If reloading primary is the better option than switching to secondary, then it defeats the point of having a *secondary* in the first place. The game would've been better off removing the entire secondary category, make all guns as "guns" and let us carry 2 of them.

 

Also, your argument doesn't explain why we have quick melee. If slow holstering speed is "part of the design" then there shouldn't be quick melee. We have been asking for "quick secondary" on and off over the years but we also understand adding another button for that is complicated. Note that they even made quick melee even quicker than in Melee 1.0 since they removed Charge Attack from quick melee so the engine no longer needs to wait to determine if the attack is normal or charged.

[DeMonkey]

The reduced delay helped, but not nearly enough.

Beforehand it's sustained DPS was 123, less than a default Braton. After the recent change you'll get the most sustained DPS from firing 19 shots and then waiting for it to recharge, that gives you a whopping ~160 DPS (assuming you fire 19 shots perfectly each and every time). The base Burston has ~178 DPS and it's a MR0 weapon aimed at new players.

On a beam weapon with the range of a dead hamster, that's basically worthless imo. I'd honestly rather take the Spectra, it has a better Riven disposition and a syndicate mod that increases range and provides bursts of CC and damage.

Buff the Cycron more, having an unlimited ammo niche doesn't mean the weapon has to suffer somewhere else. At the end of the day to any Veteran player all weapons have unlimited ammo, it just depends on how long you're willing to wait building ammo restores or whether you're able to press 'W' and walk over ammo drops.

And quite frankly I'd rather wait outside of a mission building restores than inside a mission where I'm trying not to die and/or have an objective to worry about.

What this weapon needs is an increased mag capacity, something like 60 or 80 would do.

Side note; You fixed the main complaint I saw of 'waiting more than firing' by perhaps the bare minimum possible, firing 19 shots will take 3.8 seconds, waiting for it to recharge after that will take ~3.5. Throw in a Lethal Torrent (which I'm sure most people will use for what reason, Mr Shaded Woods Phantom?)...

 

 

If you get the reference you can have my first born. Second born as well.

... and you're back to waiting more than firing.

That's simply poor design in an action game.

Edited May 4, 2017 by DeMonkey

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

  Hide contents

 

If you get the reference you can have my first born. Second born as well.

 

Dude I love Happy Souls. 

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ALG Minuscule36 said:

Dude I love Happy Souls. 

<3

[AdunSaveMe]

If not a buff, then an MR reduction. It is not an MR9 worthy weapon.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

DE is determined to leave this as another awesome concept, trash execution weapon that will never see any serious use. Not even dual wield will save it when the majority of top tier melee are two handed.

[[DE]Momaw]

Has anybody else even TRIED it with the change?  Reload mods still apply, the charge delay for a partial battery can be lowered to less than 2 seconds

[Dromenon]

8 hours ago, hukurokuju5 said:

5 second reload is too much of a handicap for what the weapon actually does

 

15 hours ago, Dromenon said:

"I feel that it could easily be improved just by halving the recharge delay, and maybe adding a meter or two to its range. I don't feel that damage is that much of an issue, as beam weapons don't usually scale that well nor are that great overall, but it's just a fun gun to use that I feel could use some quality of life changes.

Conclusion: Great proof of concept with the recharging weapons, please make more that result in less suicide"

 

[DeMonkey]

41 minutes ago, Momaw said:

Has anybody else even TRIED it with the change?  Reload mods still apply, the charge delay for a partial battery can be lowered to less than 2 seconds

My game is currently broken, so I can't try any changes.

The math doesn't lie though, trying the weapon doesn't change the numbers or the facts.

[[DE]Momaw]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

trying the weapon doesn't change the numbers or the facts.

Here's some numbers and facts for you then.

Base recharge:  5 seconds delay

Half recharge time for partial battery:  2.5 seconds delay

With Quickdraw:  +48% speed = 1/1.48 = 1.69 seconds delay

[LazyKnight]

Well the buff made it mechanically snappier, It is certainly a lot better with its decreased reload time.

This change makes it far better for quickly tap firing to put a fire proc on a target few targets then using melee. I can see this weapon as a usable weapon combined with a melee weapon that is using condition overload. 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Momaw said:

Here's some numbers and facts for you then.

Base recharge:  5 seconds delay

Half recharge time for partial battery:  2.5 seconds delay

With Quickdraw:  +48% speed = 1/1.48 = 1.69 seconds delay

Yes, I'm aware of the numbers, I've already used them to work out the DPS.

You missed the +1 second actually recharging, giving it 2.69 seconds to fully charge with a reload mod. The glaxion reloads its mag of 300 in 1.5 seconds without a reload mod.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

+1 for Happy Souls 👌🏻

[[DE]Momaw]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

The glaxion reloads its mag of 300 in 1.5 seconds without a reload mod.

And is notoriously ammo hungry, so you're spending a slot on ammo mutation instead.

Also Glaxion doesn't apply *two* status effects at once.

[IceColdHawk]

@Momaw Thanks but i'd rather stick with atomos which doesn't require me to reload for 5 ages or 2.5 ages for only a small clip. It also doesn't require me to do without damage mods and mod for things like quickdraw.

Also,

4 minutes ago, Momaw said:

And is notoriously ammo hungry, so you're spending a slot on ammo mutation instead.

That's why glaxion has got like 1500 ammo maximum which is more than enough for most of your missions. And carrier exists too. As it stands, cycron *might* fit for some fashionframe if one likes it. But that's about it, sadly. Really no need for long recharging rates for mediocre damage.

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Momaw said:

And is notoriously ammo hungry, so you're spending a slot on ammo mutation instead.

Also Glaxion doesn't apply *two* status effects at once.

Or I'm repeatedly pressing #3 on my numpad and using the several hundred ammo restores I have tucked away that cost me next to nothing to build.

As I've already mentioned in my OP, ammo is not an issue in this game. Infinite ammo on a pistol is barely an advantage, and certainly not something that would unbalance the weapon if it had viable DPS.

Tell me, when did you last run out of ammo in your Lex Prime? If the answer is never, then it arguably has such a high ammo efficiency that it could be considered infinite.

Should it therefore get a nerf, because if the Cycron needs to suffer because of this niche, shouldn't every super ammo efficient weapon?

No, Cycron needs a buff.

Also, you're talking about wasting a slot on an ammo mutation mod, but defending the Cycron by arguing in favour of Quickdraw. How is that any better?

[[DE]Momaw]

6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Also, you're talking about wasting a slot on an ammo mutation mod, but defending the Cycron by arguing in favour of Quickdraw.

I didn't say "waste", you did. It's not a waste of mod slots to use mods which compensate for a weapon's drawbacks.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Momaw said:

I didn't say "waste", you did. It's not a waste of mod slots to use mods which compensate for a weapon's drawbacks.

 

18 minutes ago, Momaw said:

And is notoriously ammo hungry, so you're spending a slot on ammo mutation instead.

^ That implies to me that you consider it a necessity on the Glaxion, I've already explained why it isn't. So yes, it is a waste of a mod slot, arguing in favour of using it is arguing in favour of wasting a mod slot. Nothing I said was incorrect. 

Don't nitpick.

[Azamagon]

11 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

Something like these:

Altfire addition, please? :3

14 hours ago, Mover-NeRo said:

I would like reload delay about 0,5 sec and reload time from 0 to 20 in 4-5 sec. That would mean you can actually mange your drain and not get punished by firing in short bursts.

Yup, exactly my thoughts too. (And reload mods would affect the recharge time too/instead of the delay)

[PrVonTuckIII]

It's been slightly buffed now. Recharge times are now shorter if you some ammo left in the clip.

[Vafthrudnir]

13 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

I was pretty excited. I was like "Wow, we get a mini energy disc throwing panthera as a secondary" and "mini exalted blade".

What if it was scrapped and recycled.

REcycron.

The weapon does look very odd.

Edited May 5, 2017 by giovanniluca

[00zau]

Make the delay before reload starts shorter (1 second), but increase the time it takes to get from 0-20 once it starts (maybe 3 seconds). Thus you're more likely to get some minor reloading in while moving or casting or doing other things, and you can do something couple of seconds even if you're bouncing off of 0 ammo.