Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Proofter]

11 hours ago, Chipputer said:

I thought this was tied to the Viral status and not Oberon? Whenever I'm hit with Viral and I die I will immediately insta-gib. When I'm not hit with Viral I go down as usual.

I don't know about that. Before this topic everything I knew about viral that it can ignore Quick Thinking and kill while there is ridiculous amount of energy. People still was able to revive you. I discovered thing with instant absolute death only when I was playing with Oberon.

I even tested it. If you have Oberon buffs you can die in instant from viral proc, which is wrong everytime I tried die without them. It works like that, if you move with Oberon buffs and viral proc on you, you will be annihilated, but if you stay still you will be "perfectly" fine.
 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Proofter

[StabbyTentacles]

Hmmmm wonder if this is intended... 

 

[Evanescent]

The hek?!?!?

[LazyKnight]

This should be in the bug section. That video would easily let someone at DE see the problem.

[The_Grimmrock]

Alright boys, its that time of the week, another weekend feedback for our buddy oberon

So: My takes

Oberon: Much better place now than he was, increasing his max energy helped his EHP by a ton, making him much more capable of feeding himself with rage in upper content, the ability to avoid being staggered by quick thinking unless you take a big hit helps avoid that "Stagger until death" making him much more capable of stacking up some energy and then double slamming reckoning to take the heat off long enough to regen your health back up.

Hallowed ground still feels off, and a large part of that is how badly its range syncs up with reckoning if you add any sort of range, making it VERY difficult to make use of the armor strip because HG simply doesnt keep up on the range.

Renewal needs some tweaks to be more team friendly, but is overall in a much better, more sustainable place with his energy increase

Reckoning still suffers from the "Power Budget Unused" Issues because health orb spawns are few and far between and usually on accident, giving him the ability to generate those health orbs more constantly at higher level content would really help him out, making him capable of consistent health conversion and equilibrium use, which fixes up some of this other issues with energy economy and durability. making that one change drastically improves Oberons functionality in raids, kuva floods, and sorties. 

Complaints: 

- Reckoning doesn't kill many things mid to end game so the health orb part of the skill feels like wasted power budget.

- Hallowed Ground still feels super lackluster, would be nice to get a little more for this skill.

- Renewal, with his now much larger energy pool feels sustainable for the most part.

Tweaks!

- increase the Reckoning and HG base range to 18 and then pair the scaling, saves a lot of trouble when it comes to keeping those two skills working together for the armor strip. 

- Give HG something extra, like 25% DR scaling up to 50% with power strength. gives people a reason to be on it and improves Oberon's overall durability so that he can use Rage to fuel his powers with a tad more safety, or a bit longer on them mot runs. This also helps Oberon get people in place to cast Iron Renewal instead of just renewal, supporting his team.

- Renewal: please make this a fixed drain, instead of scaling with people healed, I feel punished for team support.

- reckoning: Please, please, please, put the health orb spawn onto an on hit, or on kills during the blind, so we have a reasonable way to spawn them by lv 80-100.

I think these are the last changes needed to get oberon into a place of his own, instead of a discount trinity/inaros/nezha/ thing.

[Proofter]

I wasn't completly sure if it's a bug when I start the topic. First time I encounter that problem I thought that some very strong debuff was killing teammates ignoring everything I gave them. After some research I posted that problem in bug section.

[KX297]

I just really hope that DE doesn't leave Oberon here. 

He still needs work.

I would like Hallowed Ground to get a range buff along with some minor stat changes. Currently, its range is pretty bad and using it by itself is underwhelming.

Reckoning really should have its health orb spawn rate be an 'on-hit' effect since its damage drops off in a heartbeat.

Other than this, well, I think i'm alright and could make due. But these two things not being fixed/adjusted still really perturb me. These are things people regularly ask for and for the most part agree should be added/changed, yet they havn't been.

Would I like to see more? Yes.

Would I settle for this?

..... yes.

 

 

[(PSN)O1goodeninja]

Most common thing i see is range buff to 18m im sure with how many people are saying that d.e. will bump it up eventually.

[Ceadeus]

Most people's claim for the Oberon rework being good enough is that he serves multiple roles.  To that, I say wrong.  Not that he doesn't serve multiple roles, but he's still not good enough at any of them to consider these changes worth the time it took for him to get them.  I say this, because after revisiting my EV Trinity build (Meaning only really built for range and efficiency) I can do better, more responsive heals, better CC since I can stunlock any target of my choosing till it's dead, provide literal invincibility to my teammates, AND do MORE damage with spam-cast abilities that reach as far as I can see than Oberon can do with his "Ultimate" that has a very long cast, terrible range, and terrible damage.

To give some perspective, Oberon's Reckoning does something like 5000 damage when modded for MAXIMUM possible power strength, meaning 299%.  One cast of my EV does ~3000 damage, restores well over the energy took to cast it (as well as energy to my teammates).  So what exactly makes Oberon a good choice in any scenario at all?

I'm not saying he's unusable, but there is no situation where he is the better frame to take for any role.

[Hemmo67]

9 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

5000 damage when modded for MAXIMUM

now this is funny as i do this dmg with normal power strenght in sorties

[LSG501]

13 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

To give some perspective, Oberon's Reckoning does something like 5000 damage when modded for MAXIMUM possible power strength, meaning 299%.  One cast of my EV does ~3000 damage, restores well over the energy took to cast it (as well as energy to my teammates).  So what exactly makes Oberon a good choice in any scenario at all?

one enemy versus multiple enemies.....while I'm not saying oberon could still do with some more buffing it's, at least for me, more usable than it's old version.

[crazyN00b]

So you're saying that a single target ability is better CC than AoE knockdown with 4 seconds blindness and12 seconds confusion (rad proc)?

[Walkampf]

22 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

(...) but there is no situation where he is the better frame to take for any role.

Yes, there is at least one Warframe outperforming Oberon in a single role, but what if you need Oberon to take several roles at once?

If you want to have a healer? Sure, take Trinity,

If you want a healer and a CCer? Good luck with Trinity. Sure, you have to compromise when healing, but Oberon brings other stuff to the table to make up for it considering his COMPLETE kit.

[Varacal]

32 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

I'm not saying he's unusable, but there is no situation where he is the better frame to take for any role.

jack of all trades, master of none. im sure you've heard of that quote

[Hemmo67]

Just now, Varacal said:

jack of all trades, master of none. im sure you've heard of that quote

as bad as that quote might sound in game like warframe been jack of all trades is more usefull than just speccing for healing dmg or cc

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

1 minute ago, Hemmo67 said:

as bad as that quote might sound in game like warframe been jack of all trades is more usefull than just speccing for healing dmg or cc

Indeed, especially when you can rely on 3 seperate weapons. you can pull off some great things.

 

[Dylki]

Your statement is very logical, I don't find much use for Oberon and he's been collecting dust in my inventory for a while. I rarely ever pick him over any other frame in-game. But what do you think Oberon needs? What changes could DE make to his kit to make him more viable, but not overpowered, and yet still unique? Some frames may not ever be as strong as others due to their kit, for example Trinity has a full heal that also bestows allies with damage reduction. Such an ability may certainly be considered strong, because of the effects in can have in co-op play. However, it's considered overpowered and almost broken in comparison to most other healing abilities in game, such as Oberon's renewal.

I suppose the reason such imbalance can happen is because when Warframes are based off a certain theme, their power and utility can be restricted by that theme. For example, Volt is an electric based Warframe, and all his abilities revolve around characteristics of electricity in games, such as paralyzing enemies by electrocution. However, electricity is not known for re-positioning enemies, and as such Volt is restricted by this. He cannot have an ability like Vauban or Nidus that pulls enemies together because stereotypical electricity does not do that. 

On that note, another reason Oberon's changes haven't made him stronger is that his utility simply isn't there. Let's take his Reckoning ability for example. It has 15m of range does 1250 at max level with default power strength, and 625 additional damage to enemies affected by radiation status. If they were on Hallowed Ground before being affected, they would receive a 30% armor reduction and are blinded by 4 seconds.

Now, let's take a look at Frost's Avalanche. It has 15m of range as well, and is an AOE ability. However, it does 1500 base damage and an additional 400 damage if an enemy dies to the ability. In addition, affected enemies are frozen for 8 seconds and receive a 40% armor reduction.

As we can see, Frost's Avalanche seems to be the big brother to Oberon's Reckoning, having greater damage, more armor reduction and freezes enemies instead of blinding them. However, Oberon's Reckoning also causes enemies to drop health orbs upon death, fitting in to his kit and theme as a "paladin" warframe. His kit gives him a balance between damage and healing, and by fitting in that balance he sacrifices power from both aspects, having weaker damage and healing. If his ultimate were to receive more damage and a longer blind, people may begin comparing him to Frost.  However, this still makes him special, even if it means making him weaker, it still allows people to have a unique experience while playing him. DE won't want us to work hard for a frame who's a copycat of other frame's abilities. His kit already shares similarities with other frames; radiation-inflicting projectiles like Nyx, an heal-over-time like Inaros and a lingering area of damage like Nezha. However, all of these frames differ in their playstyles because of the unique tweaks DE has given each of them. 

In conclusion, it's not possible for all frames to be balanced: no matter how much you buff something without changing its core characteristics, some frames will always fall behind. If you buff the frames too much, the difficulty of the game would decrease, meaning the developers would have to raise the enemy level all over the place. When they do this, frames will seem weaker because they can't kill as fast. This will result in an unwanted viscous cycle where numbers keep getting bigger. I think the damage numbers aren't always something to look at, DE has nearly reached a good balance in TTK ratio between players and enemies. Furthermore, some frames aren't all about damage either, some playstyles can lead to amazing fun! Ash's Blade Storm could efficiently clear out the infested whaling on the defense objective, but who would want to miss a rejuvenating soak in the Hydroid pool with your ladyfriends?  It's not effective in killing, but for me it sure was fun as heck!

Edited May 9, 2017 by Dylki

[(PSN)theelix]

You're not understanding the point of Oberon, plainly and simply. 

And I'm not in defense of his kit. It's pretty annoying to me, in fact. But as a whole, you're missing the point of the frame by making direct comparisons to a healer who doesn't do close to the same thing that Oberon actually does. 

[Chewarette]

53 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

1- I say this, because after revisiting my EV Trinity build (Meaning only really built for range and efficiency) I can do better, more responsive heals, better CC since I can stunlock any target of my choosing till it's dead

2- provide literal invincibility to my teammates,

3- AND do MORE damage with spam-cast abilities that reach as far as I can see than Oberon can do with his "Ultimate" that has a very long cast, S#&$e range, and S#&$e damage.

1- 1 enemy at a time.

2- How is a 75% damage reduction "literal invincibility" ?

3- 1 enemy at a time.

Oberon can provide a mass-control Trinity can't. Oberon can deal big-enough damage - but maybe not with his mass-control spell, try another one. Oberon can tank a lot.

[SeaUrchins]

You overexaggerate. Oberon is viable for most of what the game can throw at you, including sorties and non-endless missions. Indeed, he doesn't have infinitely scaling damage as EV Trin, but he still has some mass CC nlike her.

[Hemmo67]

4 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

1- 1 enemy at a time.

2- How is a 75% damage reduction "literal invincibility" ?

3- 1 enemy at a time.

Oberon can provide a mass-control Trinity can't. Oberon can deal big-enough damage - but maybe not with his mass-control spell, try another one. Oberon can tank a lot.

u forgot with an augment oberon can give 2nd wind to team mates in tough situation and the dmg immunity allows them to escape

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Equinox does everything better than Oberon.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

Just buff his first so each orb does more than 1% like 15% 

Edited May 9, 2017 by (XB1)Solargeo

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

I like how you take one frame and compare it to Oberon...... Also, trinity doesn't have CC capabilities in any sense. Crowd controlling one enemy does not count as a CC ability, and Oberon isn't supposed to do damage because he is a CC and healer frame, not a damage dealer. Radiation is one of the best things to have for crowd control, and since I run natural Talent, his reckoning doesn't take long to cast. (I know Xbox doesn't have the rework yet, but the rework definitely made him better from what I have seen, and he is currently really solid.) 

[Hopakkiin]

Oberon is a good paladin. His abilities are balanced, the numbers aren't off. You don't have to play him, if you don't like him.