Supra Vandal gunshake makes me feel nauseous, please change

[Evanescent]

It makes me physically ill. I really like the Supra and I've been waiting for it to get a vandal. For it to make me ill everytime I try to use it is heartbreaking.

 Please change its recoil,

[Stonehenge]

Or, you could just equip a recoil reduction mod. (Like Stabilizer : -60% reduction.)

In this way, people who enjoy its recoil feelings will still be able to enjoy it.

Thx.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Stonehenge

[Aeon94]

30 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

Or, you could just equip a recoil reduction mod. (Like Stabilizer : -60% reduction.)

In this way, people who enjoy its recoil feelings will still be able to enjoy it.

Thx.

I love its recoil feeling and don't want it to get removed or reduced. 

You can just put a recoil reduction mod to solve this problem easily @Evanescent

[DaftMeat]

OR, he could use Stabilizer as a work around while bringing this to the Devs attention here on the forum. They've made changes to the game before to alleviate players with motion sickness (Nezha's Warding Halo).

[Evanescent]

1 minute ago, DaftMeat said:

OR, he could use Stabilizer as a work around while bringing this to the Devs attention here on the forum. They've made changes to the game before to alleviate players with motion sickness (Nezha's Warding Halo).

Thank you.

If a feature is causing problems, it needs to be looked at. Forcing me to gimp my build just to make a weapon usable is just dodging around the issue.

 

[Stonehenge]

9 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

OR, he could use Stabilizer as a work around while bringing this to the Devs attention here on the forum. They've made changes to the game before to alleviate players with motion sickness (Nezha's Warding Halo).

He could. Maybe, in this case, a larger choice in different crosshairs for his ironsight would be a good start and help him reduce the sickness, maybe reducing camera shaking could be benefit too, though this is already in graphic options, if i remember well, but i'm not sure.

If he really suffers from motion sickness, i really doubt the Vandal would be the only weapon wich gives him nausea.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Stonehenge

[(PSN)LemonDaddyof4]

I'm not sure if the recoil is that significant of a problem maybe its just because the gun on whole is a turd. What we got a regular supra with extra rounds and a polarity slot.._Thanx again DE for rewarding your gamers with such a stellar POS. Sorry.

[trunks013]

Have you tryed the mod against the recoil ?

I mean nobody use it right but does it make you less ill ?

If yeah its the recoil and i agree the weapon has a weird recoil ^.^ 

Edited May 17, 2017 by trunks013

[(PSN)psycofang]

It might be a glitch possibly.

Sometimes firing it at the hip or zoomed causes the screen to shake violently

 

Other times when firing theres almost no recoil at all nor any screen shakes.

 

Possibly a bug?

[low1991]

On 5/16/2017 at 9:34 PM, Evanescent said:

 Please change its recoil,

Better, it's time for a new recoil/ accuracy mechanism. A gun' accuracy in-game be display'ed by the size of the reticle. The recoil is the increase of reticle' diameter indicating the accuracy is reducing per shot.

Meaning. In-game. the aiming is consist of the 'Cross-hair', 'Reticle'. The crosshair remains the same. Reticle=the variation of spread between shots. Recoil=increase of Reticle diameter. No no screen-shakes...

[Evanescent]

13 hours ago, trunks013 said:

Have you tryed the mod against the recoil ?

I mean nobody use it right but does it make you less ill ?

If yeah its the recoil and i agree the weapon has a weird recoil ^.^ 

It's not that recoil causes the problem as much as specifically how the supra recoils.

Sometimes the screen just shakes violently, sideways.

[DSpite]

On 17/05/2017 at 0:13 AM, Aeon94 said:

I love its recoil feeling and don't want it to get removed or reduced. 

You can just put a recoil reduction mod to solve this problem easily @Evanescent

 

If you mount a camera on top of a helmet and one on a gun, then play back the dual video of it being fired, the amount of movement the two have is VASTLY different.

Forcing people to endure the "recoil effects" from the point of view of the gun and NOT the person, is asinine, and about as "immersive" as experiencing car vibrations from the point of view of having your head bolted to the chassis, bypassing the entire ability of your entire body to act a shock absorber.

In this game, we are inside armored exoskeletons that can't even seem to hold a staff weapon with both hands at waist level without our heads jerking backwards when ever we fire it.

Also, we are not standing in a room with a real gun, we are staring at a big rectangle full of light while sitting down in a room in front of keyboards. If you constantly jerk the camera around, a well functioning brain picks up the inherent problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulator_sickness

Due to the spatial limitations imposed on these simulators, perceived discrepancies between the motion of the simulator and that of the vehicle can occur and lead to simulator sickness. It is similar to motion sickness in many ways, but occurs in simulated environments and can be induced without actual motion. Symptoms of simulator sickness include discomfort, apathy, drowsiness, disorientation, fatigue, vomiting, and many more.

I'm not the problem in this equation, it's actually the fact that my brain is working PERFECTLY that the problem occurs.

Smarter choices need to be made as to when and how and how much jerking around is too much. Have you ever noticed that if you enter a map and just stare at the screen, the entire screen shakes? Did you notice that the shaking goes to ZERO the moment you zoom in? I have, because it's highly noticeable when your brain works, and the game is full of situations like these.

Do a connection Node mission on a planet where you just have to kill a Frame specter, then watch the end animation where the ship fires the dual blue beams and opens a jump gate. The game tries to give you "immersion" by shaking the screen to simulate the ship shaking, problem is, the PLANET in the view shakes in sync with the ship, and the ships in orbit ALSO shake in sync with the ship, destroying any immersion that scene should have.

I really don't care that you like recoil, because it's a forced fake recoil and "done very badly" recoil, and not being applied with any kind of logic. You are basically liking the equivalent of having a person stand behind you while you are playing a race car sim and just moving your chair at random, with no connection as to what is might be actually happening on screen or reality in that situation.

We should be able to opt out of that kind of rubbish, not make it sound like we want more of it.

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by DSpite

[LuckyCharm]

3 minutes ago, DSpite said:

 

If you mount a camera on top of a helmet and one on a gun, then play back the dual video of it being fired, the amount of movement the two have is VASTLY different.

Forcing people to endure the "recoil effects" from the point of view of the gun and NOT the person, is asinine, and about as "immersive" as experiencing car vibrations from the point of view of having your head bolted to the chassis, bypassing the entire ability of your entire body to act a shock absorber.

In this game, we are inside armored exoskeletons that can't even seem to hold a staff weapon with both hands at waist level without our heads jerking backwards when ever we fire it.

Also, we are not standing in a room with a real gun, we are staring at a big rectangle full of light while sitting down in a room in front of keyboards. If you constantly jerk the camera around, a well functioning brain picks up the inherent problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulator_sickness

Due to the spatial limitations imposed on these simulators, perceived discrepancies between the motion of the simulator and that of the vehicle can occur and lead to simulator sickness. It is similar to motion sickness in many ways, but occurs in simulated environments and can be induced without actual motion. Symptoms of simulator sickness include discomfort, apathy, drowsiness, disorientation, fatigue, vomiting, and many more.

I'm not the problem in this equation, it's actually the fact that my brain is working PERFECTLY that the problem occurs.

Smarter choices need to be made as to when and how and how much jerking around is too much. Have you ever noticed that if you enter a map and just stare at the screen, the entire screen shakes? Did you notice that the shaking goes to ZERO the moment you zoom in? I have, because it's highly noticeable when your brain works, and the game is full of situations like these.

Do a connection Node mission on a planet where you just have to kill a Frame specter, then watch the end animation where the ship fires the dual blue beams and opens a jump gate. The game tries to give you "immersion" by shaking the screen to simulate the ship shaking, problem is, the PLANET in the view shakes in sync with the ship, and the ships in orbit ALSO shake in sync with the ship, destroying any immersion that scene should have.

I really don't care that you like recoil, because it's a forced fake recoil and "done very badly" recoil, and not being applied with any kind of logic. You are basically liking the equivalent of having a person stand behind you while you are playing a race car sim and just moving your chair at random, with no connection as to what is might be actually happening on screen or reality in that situation.

We should be able to opt out of that kind of rubbish, not make it sound like we want more of it.

Then in your opinion how should recoil be done correctly in a third person shooter? From what I read all you did was complain about the current system. And how would changing it give the weapon any feel of weight? The opticor for example has barely any recoil effect, no feeling of power, and feels simply bland to use. Whereas guns like the vectis, while less powerful feel fun and immersive. 

 

If I was to think of a fix it'd be that the camera stayed in place and the targeting circle jumped around. But that would be even harder and more annoying to correct on guns than the current system. And quite frankly annoying. I'd much rather the screen shake.

 

PS: for lots of screenshake pick up the buzlok .

[DSpite]

6 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Then in your opinion how should recoil be done correctly in a third person shooter? From what I read all you did was complain about the current system. And how would changing it give the weapon any feel of weight? The opticor for example has barely any recoil effect, no feeling of power, and feels simply bland to use. Whereas guns like the vectis, while less powerful feel fun and immersive. 

 

If I was to think of a fix it'd be that the camera stayed in place and the targeting circle jumped around. But that would be even harder and more annoying to correct on guns than the current system. And quite frankly annoying. I'd much rather the screen shake.

 

PS: for lots of screenshake pick up the buzlok .

We already have one way implemented in the game. In Archwing we actually have "reticle shake" on one of the weapons for example. I fail to see how it's "harder  to correct" when weapons ALREADY have an accuracy rating.

Try adding 100% recoil reduction to a Sybaris and fire shots at a lousy 40m. I have.

Please explain what is the POINT of giving me recoil, AND make BOTH my shots (not just the second in the burst) deviate that much on what should be an great MR5 gun. Why am I pointing this out? Because you stated that a jumping reticle would make guns "harder to correct". So how do you correct INHERENT accuracy of a gun? You can't. A Supra does not need any over the top screen shake for example because it spreads fire already. Why give me bad accuracy AND screen shake? What the hell does that archive? Also, if I make recoil -100% then give me some damn extra Accuracy, otherwise what the hell is the point?

Also, we have weapons with "gravity effected projectiles" and we don't complain we have to aim higher to compensate for each shot either, so why would you add extra "full screen recoil" to those? So you can end up looking at the sky more?

First off, remove "stupid level" type recoil all together, and by that I mean any LARGE screen jerk upwards or side to side and replace THAT part with a softer effect. If a weapon already fires slowly for example, there is ZERO point making each shot move up 1 meter, then we can add an extra "recoil simulation" layer separately.

---

Recoil in this game seem to exist to stop people from repeatedly shooting some guns by messing with their visual processing systems, which does nothing to some and cripples others. The "you need to slow down" mechanic should be handled differently.

* Shotguns or weapons with spread could have circular reticles that expand the longer you hold the trigger down, to simulate the fact that you should be pausing to get more accurate shots. We already have been given "hip fire penalty" for Snipers that "simulate" the fact that you are not aiming properly, so there is multiple ways to handle things

* Very large caliber weapons could move the Warframe slightly backwards to simulate a large kinetic effect, which still would make people "adjust" position after too many shots and still not create visual issues via screen shake, IE Opticor. If you were firing from cover, you'd need to re-adjust position more often for example.

* Sniper Rifles that currently have sway while aiming could have an extra mechanic where by holding down the fire button you can no longer move but your sway slows and then stops also stops, and starts again with the next shot.

* Lower the recoil MORE significantly if we aim down the barrel to imply we are attempting to apply greater control to the weapon at the cost of limiting visual awareness of surroundings.

* Add accuracy bonuses to recoil reduction Mods to make them work properly, since you are burning an important slot on a weapon.

This would be a start, at least.

There's more ways then one to get a "recoil" effect in a way as to not cause headache-level inducing motion.

Edited May 18, 2017 by DSpite

[(PSN)Censooored]

Supra Seems pretty weak and  not much change from the  regular  one  .

[low1991]

14 hours ago, DSpite said:

-

+1, because u kinda vent out for me. xP.

So sick of the screen shaking... that felt like my mouse has a vibrating motor attached.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

On 2017-5-16 at 10:34 AM, Evanescent said:

It makes me physically ill. I really like the Supra and I've been waiting for it to get a vandal. For it to make me ill everytime I try to use it is heartbreaking.

 Please change its recoil,

I understand your point. Rakta Ballistica and staticor cause the same feeling to me. 

Ballistica has a strange sideways recoil and staticor makes the screen shake. 

[Evanescent]

20 hours ago, DSpite said:

We already have one way implemented in the game. In Archwing we actually have "reticle shake" on one of the weapons for example. I fail to see how it's "harder  to correct" when weapons ALREADY have an accuracy rating.

Try adding 100% recoil reduction to a Sybaris and fire shots at a lousy 40m. I have.

Please explain what is the POINT of giving me recoil, AND make BOTH my shots (not just the second in the burst) deviate that much on what should be an great MR5 gun. Why am I pointing this out? Because you stated that a jumping reticle would make guns "harder to correct". So how do you correct INHERENT accuracy of a gun? You can't. A Supra does not need any over the top screen shake for example because it spreads fire already. Why give me bad accuracy AND screen shake? What the hell does that archive? Also, if I make recoil -100% then give me some damn extra Accuracy, otherwise what the hell is the point?

Also, we have weapons with "gravity effected projectiles" and we don't complain we have to aim higher to compensate for each shot either, so why would you add extra "full screen recoil" to those? So you can end up looking at the sky more?

First off, remove "stupid level" type recoil all together, and by that I mean any LARGE screen jerk upwards or side to side and replace THAT part with a softer effect. If a weapon already fires slowly for example, there is ZERO point making each shot move up 1 meter, then we can add an extra "recoil simulation" layer separately.

---

Recoil in this game seem to exist to stop people from repeatedly shooting some guns by messing with their visual processing systems, which does nothing to some and cripples others. The "you need to slow down" mechanic should be handled differently.

* Shotguns or weapons with spread could have circular reticles that expand the longer you hold the trigger down, to simulate the fact that you should be pausing to get more accurate shots. We already have been given "hip fire penalty" for Snipers that "simulate" the fact that you are not aiming properly, so there is multiple ways to handle things

* Very large caliber weapons could move the Warframe slightly backwards to simulate a large kinetic effect, which still would make people "adjust" position after too many shots and still not create visual issues via screen shake, IE Opticor. If you were firing from cover, you'd need to re-adjust position more often for example.

* Sniper Rifles that currently have sway while aiming could have an extra mechanic where by holding down the fire button you can no longer move but your sway slows and then stops also stops, and starts again with the next shot.

* Lower the recoil MORE significantly if we aim down the barrel to imply we are attempting to apply greater control to the weapon at the cost of limiting visual awareness of surroundings.

* Add accuracy bonuses to recoil reduction Mods to make them work properly, since you are burning an important slot on a weapon.

This would be a start, at least.

There's more ways then one to get a "recoil" effect in a way as to not cause headache-level inducing motion.

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for articulating the issue better than I ever could. Thank you very much.

[(XBOX)DomTheKilleur]

Recoil is all about muzzle rise, useless screen shaking is not. This is why I can't like the Supra's, I prefer my Stradavar or even the Soma's.

[kaliazane]

Did you try shaking your head in rythm of screen shake ? That might cancel it out.

Edited May 19, 2017 by ViS4GE

[Chipputer]

At this point I don't understand why anyone prone to motion sickness would continue to play this game. Optimal movement, alone, is enough to trigger most of them into vomiting fits.

[Ikusias]

So we report the problems to DE and pray that someone there takes notice and solves the problem in a sensible way.

Prisma Supra shake is absolutely over the top and feels more like blackmailing players in wasting a slot on stabilizer just to avoid screenshake induced sickness.

i'd like to remind DE staff that visually attacking players with visually harmful effects is potential basis for legal action.

[MystMan]

1 hour ago, Ikusias said:

So we report the problems to DE and pray that someone there takes notice and solves the problem in a sensible way.

This is a sane reply and then you do a 180 and say

1 hour ago, Ikusias said:

Prisma Supra shake is absolutely over the top and feels more like blackmailing players in wasting a slot on stabilizer just to avoid screenshake induced sickness.

i'd like to remind DE staff that visually attacking players with visually harmful effects is potential basis for legal action.

Supra shake is done with malicious intent against players to visually attack them so a threat of legal action is soon to follow!

 

.... what is wrong with you? 

[kaliazane]

1 hour ago, Ikusias said:

 

Prisma Supra shake is absolutely over the top

You should try Zenith primary fire without zooming in if you think there is somethin wrong with Supra.

[Ikusias]

Sorry but on the second half you are wrong:

nowere I imply malicious intent, i'm reminding someone by mentioning that any visual effect that is potentially harmful for the public can lead to penal responsibility.

See pokemon for the most egregius example of this were a badly made visual effect caused cases of seizures in those spectators that were subsceptible to this.

About DE I've had it with their behaviour towards their customers and their policy of ignoring porblems until people stops complaining, they have responsabilities and it's time that realize it! Last active mebers of my clan left the game after this last gem.