Banshee Sound Quake "Inactivity"

[Szythers]

I typically have my Banshee built for maximum efficiency and range to CC the whole map in an Interception, but with Primed Flow I can be immobilised for up to 4 minutes. However if I do this, by the time the round ends I don't receive any reward from the rotation as I'm "ineligible due to inactivity." Doesn't it seem unfair that my inability to move due to the use of a channelled ability that's arguably contributing the most to the team's success results in this penalty? I can be talking to others in the chat the whole time or moving the camera around, and yet I am still classed as inactive.

I don't think the use of a channelled ability that keeps you in place should allow you to become inactive, I'm sure there are other scenarios that this might apply in, one I can think of is using a high efficiency World on Fire build for Ember and remaining stationary in a defence. Although you can move still move as Ember, I think the fact that one is still actively contributing by the use of an ability should render null the fact that they aren't moving or shooting anything, and that we should still be able to get rewards.

[VampirePirate]

13 minutes ago, Szythers said:

...with Primed Flow I can be immobilised for up to 4 minutes. However if I do this, by the time the round ends I don't receive any reward from the rotation as I'm "ineligible due to inactivity." Doesn't it seem unfair that my inability to move due to the use of a channelled ability that's arguably contributing the most to the team's success results in this penalty?

 

You know it is really sad when the answer to your complaint is in the complaint.

 

The penalty is for being inactive for 1 minute.  That means move around, like actually play the game.

Edited June 28, 2017 by VampirePirate

[(PSN)horridhal]

Maybe toggle the ability off from time to time, move a few steps, then toggle it back on?  It really isn't hard to avoid the afk penalty because I have the same issue with Peacemaker on Mesa and never get penalized.

Granted I would also never sit using one ability for "four minutes" being wholly immobilized.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by (PS4)horridhal

[AEP8FlyBoy]

It's abilities like Banshee's Soundquake that make the game boring. If anything, I really think her ultimate needs changed into something a bit more interactive. Hell, that's why Mesa's Peacemaker got changed so we at least have to aim to kill stuff. But no, Banshee's Ult still encourages AFK gameplay.

In some ways, it's worse than Mirage's Prism before she got the LoS slapped into her.
You can actually deal damage while immobile and with no further input required after a single button press!? Sure I know it's still complete invalidation of most targets (since they'll never get a bead on you, because they'll all be stuck in spawn.), but seriously.

If you're gonna sit in one spot and hit one button in a span of 4 minutes while you go take a leak, why are you still playing?
That's just my thoughts, anyway. You can play how you want to though.

Edited June 28, 2017 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Fallen_Echo]

I agree with OP, if you use an efficient tactics to make the life of the mobs hard in an interception he shouldnt get afk penalty just because a skill is designed to make the player unable to move.

[VampirePirate]

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I agree with OP, if you use an efficient tactics to make the life of the mobs hard in an interception he shouldnt get afk penalty just because a skill is designed to make the player unable to move.

The ability does not force players to sit for 4 minutes during a mission.  It is a toggle ability.  you do know what that means right?  You can turn it on or off at will.  that means you are not forced to sit still.   Strike and move.  Hit the 4th ability, and then turn it off and do other things.  No brains needed on that.  If you are blaming devs and a single warframe as an excuse to break gaming rules such as going afk intentionally, like what the OP confessed to doing, then do not be surprised if someone reports your actions to Support.

I mean... why else would the afk penalty kick in after 1 minute.  because people are stupid enough to go afk for much longer then that when they shouldn't.  Why even bother playing the game if you are not going to actually play it?

[Fallen_Echo]

Just now, VampirePirate said:

The ability does not force players to sit for 4 minutes during a mission.  It is a toggle ability.  you do know what that means right?  You can turn it on or off at will.  that means you are not forced to sit still.   Strike and move.  Hit the 4th ability, and then turn it off and do other things.  No brains needed on that.  If you are blaming devs and a single warframe as an excuse to break gaming rules such as going afk intentionally, like what the OP confessed to doing, then do not be surprised if someone reports your actions to Support.

I mean... why else would the afk penalty kick in after 1 minute.  because people are stupid enough to go afk for much longer then that when they shouldn't.  Why even bother playing the game if you are not going to actually play it?

Okay let me tell you a story what happened last year to me.

I was running a sortie interception against the grineer. Lv100, melee only, pub run. Thanks to some lag, i got into the mission with Ivara, while the other guys were a Banshee from the previous round,  a Mag with a new sword and a Mirage.

The mag and the mirage died like flies in a microwave and i could hardly keep my point because the main enemy masses all decided to show up where i was prowling. Long story short after the first wave the Banshee told us that he had enough he doesnt care if he gets the afk reward ban. He gone to the middle of the place spammed some pizzas and proceeded to keep up soundquake for the rest of the mission. We won thanks to him and got unaira lenses (such happyness) while he got nothing because he didnt done "anything".

One can only blame DE for designing skills what are most useful when the player channels them soo long he gets detected as afk.

 

[VampirePirate]

55 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay let me tell you a story what happened last year to me.

I was running a sortie interception against the grineer. Lv100, melee only, pub run. Thanks to some lag, i got into the mission with Ivara, while the other guys were a Banshee from the previous round,  a Mag with a new sword and a Mirage.

The mag and the mirage died like flies in a microwave and i could hardly keep my point because the main enemy masses all decided to show up where i was prowling. Long story short after the first wave the Banshee told us that he had enough he doesnt care if he gets the afk reward ban. He gone to the middle of the place spammed some pizzas and proceeded to keep up soundquake for the rest of the mission. We won thanks to him and got unaira lenses (such happyness) while he got nothing because he didnt done "anything".

One can only blame DE for designing skills what are most useful when the player channels them soo long he gets detected as afk.

 

Yeah....

I've been there.   Except.... i toggle the ability (on) as needed, toggle it (off), move a bit, and then toggle it (on) again.  It's not the warframe.  Sometimes you are going to have a bad run.  It happens.

Also, the guy/gal that decided to stay in the ability for that long was his/her choice.  I'm not blaming him/her for that.   In that case, it was based on trust between team members and it worked.  Wonderful.  I'm not knocking that.  You just got to be careful and use sound judgement (at the risk of a bad pun).

If someone comes up with a better way to implement the 4th banshee ability, and the devs decide to go with that, wonderful.  Until then, what do you do?

However... using the ability just to go afk is just absurd.  That's all I'm saying about it.

If anyone has hard feelings.  Sorry.  That was not my intention.

Edited June 28, 2017 by VampirePirate
emphasis

[Fallen_Echo]

34 minutes ago, VampirePirate said:

However... using the ability just to go afk is just absurd.  That's all I'm saying about it.

If anyone has hard feelings.  Sorry.  That was not my intention.

Well i can agree with that.

Also i think the best fix would be applying Nyx's absorb augements effect on it. 50% less movement speed and its fixed.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

And this'll be the thread that gets sound quake nerfed

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

7 hours ago, VampirePirate said:

That means move around, like actually play the game.

he does play the game like "intended".

DE designed resonant quake and primed flow to be so effective. punishing players for actually using the tools THEY provide us with is a cheap bandaid solution to bad game design and, imo, a rather bad joke. that augment should have never been added the way it is...

edit: also the opaque nature of the afk timer itself is bad (or rather lack of) design imo.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Birdframe_Prime]

Renova's right, they've been trying to find something to make Soundquake interesting for years now, it's the one bit of her kit that doesn't really fit... Everything else about her is for movement, stealth and enemy debuff, but Soundquake is just... sit in the middle and twiddle your thumbs?

In any case, the AFK rules were literally brought in to prevent this behaviour, OP, the existence of cheese abilities like the old version of Peacemaker, the Greedy Pull that affected loot for everyone's loot to allow Mag to pull energy for frames like Banshee and Mesa, and so on, it's all discouraged. People spending three or four minutes in Soundquake or Peacemaker were literally filling up the game and the AFK rule was made to stop it.

I do feel sorry for those that lose loot because of it, but despite the fact that some abilities do hold you still for a bit, the game is supposed to be actively played, and that's what DE are trying to do by making AFK behaviour hurt you in the long run.

So of course, threads like these are the ones that are going to get Soundquake 'rebalanced' or 'reworked' into something a little different. Because DE don't like encouraging abilities like these... not now they have an idea in their head about 'activity'.

[VampirePirate]

4 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

he does play the game.

DE designed resonant quake and primed flow to be so effective. punishing players for actually using the tools THEY provide us with is a cheap bandaid solution to bad game design and, imo, a rather bad joke. that augment should have never been added the way it is...

edit: also the opaque nature of the afk timer itself is bad design imo.

I'm sorry but when you have to mention that you can use sound quake for 4 minutes, it's a dead give away.  That's not playing the game.  That's just being afk.  If it were not so, he would not be complaining about the afk penalty.  You can't slither around that fact with petty logic and petty excuses.   You have opinions about certain things with this game, and that's fine.  I won't argue with that.  Everyone has opinions.  I just don't believe that Banshee's augments have anything to do with this and i don't think they are bandaids.  What I do believe is that the soundquake augment comes from an old bug in Banshee's ability long ago, and the devs decided to bring that back in the form of an augment mod -- because they know there are players that wish to play in high level content with extreme difficulty.  I don't think the devs are trying to "punish" players either.  i think they are trying to prevent players from 'cheezing' everything.  it's like, "we will give you this power but it won't be easy to use it in certain ways."  That's how i am seeing it.

I think that if you really want your arguments to hold weight and get proper attention, you would post things that could be helpful rather than dev bashing.  I mean, we can all sit here all day and say "bad design" to this and " bad joke" to that, but how in the world does that help with anything?  If there is a better solution to all this, now would be the time to think it up and post it instead of blaming the devs for everything.

I will be the first to tell you that i'm a pessimistic person, even on this forum, but even i can see that my negativity goes nowhere.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

With great power comes great responsibility. Soundquakes' CC for Interception/Mobile Defense/Hijack is extremely effective but comes at the cost of losing out affinity if used at an extensive amount of time and by being a sitting duck when used.

Personally I use my Resonating Soundquake build very sparingly. Sure, it's effective and can map-wipe enemies depending on the enemies and level, but the costs that I listed above as well as enduring the wrath of teammates who may not like this build is what you're going to have to deal with. It's not unfair by any means.

That's why if I'm going to run a Banshee build in any mission type that's not Rescue or Spy, it's my melee build with a crit Gas Secura Lecta or crit Blood Rush Atterax with Resonance Sonar and Savage Silence. I find it much more fun to run than being a sitting duck. However, if I had a rough day and want to be lazy on Mobile Defense, Resonating Soundquake is an option.

[Szythers]

I do move around every short period or so to avoid this, but to me it's beside the point whether or not I use this for up to 4 minutes (which I actually can't given that my Primed Flow isn't max rank), because I don't see why it should affect my experience? If that's what I choose to do, ought I not have the freedom to play the game how I see fit, as long as it doesn't hurt others' experience? If your squad decides to use Banshee as a strategy to tackle a mission and you stay with them and chat, as I do with my friends and clanmates, why should you get penalised for taking advantage of the tools at your disposal?

Even beside defending going afk for the sake of it, right or wrong, what of the legitimate need to go away from keyboard that will keep you away for over a minute, helping mum or busting for the toilet, but you're invested in an endless fissure or difficult Sortie? We shouldn't have to just be like "sometimes you are going to have a bad run." because THAT's not fun. Accepting the tedium of toggling on and off and moving around for a second, on top of risking yourself and failure because of such, does not constitute a fix.

I seek only to draw light to the fact that, as was said, this is a bandaid for a larger problem, like using DRM to fight piracy or the war on drugs, and despite not having further constructive criticism than remove it in this scenario until a better solution is thought of, I still think that is a fair approach, and I offer this as discussion. My Ember example was hypothetical, I wouldn't argue for that like I do this given that, as I said, you do have the ability to move. We can argue right and wrong and the way to play the game all day long.

Also, resonating quake is a part of my second configuration based around strength, not my CC.

[Magneu]

My car has a top speed of 160mph (four minutes Sound Quake). Even though the speed limit (AFK timer) is 60mph (one minute inactivity), why am I punished with jail-time (marked AFK) when I do what my car (frame) is capable of due to my mods (mods).

In any case, I'd imagine most players (a.k.a. people who aren't playing max efficiency for the quickest rewards) don't appreciate it when a Banshee shuts down literally an entire map for multiple minutes at a time; it makes the game rather dull. Still waiting on the entire ability to be scrapped/changed.

A more visible/forgiving AFK timer would also be extremely helpful.

[Szythers]

Except driving a car like that is actually dangerous.

In any case, abusing an ability that your squadmates aren't appreciative of is a different issue, and often others speak up when they don't want it. Hence doing it with friends and clanmates.

[VampirePirate]

15 hours ago, Szythers said:

I do move around every short period or so to avoid this, but to me it's beside the point whether or not I use this for up to 4 minutes (which I actually can't given that my Primed Flow isn't max rank), because I don't see why it should affect my experience? If that's what I choose to do, ought I not have the freedom to play the game how I see fit, as long as it doesn't hurt others' experience? If your squad decides to use Banshee as a strategy to tackle a mission and you stay with them and chat, as I do with my friends and clanmates, why should you get penalised for taking advantage of the tools at your disposal?

Even beside defending going afk for the sake of it, right or wrong, what of the legitimate need to go away from keyboard that will keep you away for over a minute, helping mum or busting for the toilet, but you're invested in an endless fissure or difficult Sortie? We shouldn't have to just be like "sometimes you are going to have a bad run." because THAT's not fun. Accepting the tedium of toggling on and off and moving around for a second, on top of risking yourself and failure because of such, does not constitute a fix.

I seek only to draw light to the fact that, as was said, this is a bandaid for a larger problem, like using DRM to fight piracy or the war on drugs, and despite not having further constructive criticism than remove it in this scenario until a better solution is thought of, I still think that is a fair approach, and I offer this as discussion. My Ember example was hypothetical, I wouldn't argue for that like I do this given that, as I said, you do have the ability to move. We can argue right and wrong and the way to play the game all day long.

Also, resonating quake is a part of my second configuration based around strength, not my CC.

I know you are speaking in general here, but you did quote me.   I'm going to be frank with this post.  (TL;DR is at the very bottom.)

You are seriously skating on thin ice here.  I'm not talking about arguments.  i'm not talking about this thread.  I'm talking about your attitude.

There are plenty of people that have posted logical and legitimate things to help you see the light, and still you refuse to see this.  This is not an error on part of devs and their game/warframe design.  This is a character flaw.  Your character flaw.  It is becoming quite clear (at least to me) that you care not about the facts at hand, that you care not about the rules of the game or the user agreement.  Then you tried to make it into what you see as a logical argument with absolutely nothing to back it.

I'm going to state some facts here that you blatantly defy for no reason, other than to get your way.

1) no one is forcing you to use Soundquake.

2) no one is forcing you to use Banshee for Interception (and other relevant missions)

3) There are other warframes that can help make the mission successful.

4) AFK penalty is 1 minute and beyond in inactivity

5) The nature of Soundquake: an ability that requires you to be still, but you complain that you can't move.

6) AFK penalty exists: You claim that you do move around, but you complain about suffering AFK penalty.

7) Devs' design for the game: They don't want you to be still for more than one minute obviously, and you have a problem with that.

Your words: If that's what I choose to do, ought I not have the freedom to play the game how I see fit, as long as it doesn't hurt others' experience?

Answer: No.  Obviously not.  You see the structure and there is a rule behind it, but you don't agree with that rule or structure, even though this is how the devs wish it to be and for good reason.

Your words: If your squad decides to use Banshee as a strategy to tackle a mission and you stay with them and chat, as I do with my friends and clanmates, why should you get penalised for taking advantage of the tools at your disposal?

Answer: You are not getting penalized for using those "tools at your disposal".  You are being penalized for breaking the rules.  Keep the facts in perspective and stop twisting them.  After one minute of being inactive, you get an AFK penalty.  Plain and simple.  It does not matter who you are teamed with or who you are friends with, that is the rule.  Devs put it there for a reason.  If you are too lazy to toggle the ability as needed, then the penalty is your fault.

Your words: I do move around every short period or so to avoid this...

Answer: Either you don't, or you don't want to obviously.

Your words: Even beside defending going afk for the sake of it, right or wrong, what of the legitimate need to go away from keyboard that will keep you away for over a minute, helping mum or busting for the toilet, but you're invested in an endless fissure or difficult Sortie?

Answer: Since when did this have to do with mums and toilets?  Sure, real life gets in the way, but you expect the devs to remove the afk penalty so that you can continue to exploit the game is way the devs don't want you to?  The whole reason for the afk penalty to exist is to prevent you from getting up and leaving in the middle of a mission others assumed you had the time and space to commit to when you hit the 'accept' button.  That is not fair to other players, friend or not.  Real life is your responsibility, not DE's.

Your words: We shouldn't have to just be like "sometimes you are going to have a bad run." because THAT's not fun. Accepting the tedium of toggling on and off and moving around for a second, on top of risking yourself and failure because of such, does not constitute a fix.

Answer: No it's not a fix.  That's assuming that something is wrong or broken.  There isn't.  The only consistent complaint you make and stick with is your wish to stay in soundquake for as long as you want, granting you the freedom to come and go between your keyboard and the rest of the world -- even though you committed yourself to the mission by hitting the 'accept' button.  This is why the afk penalty is a thing in the first place.  Speaking of fixes, assuming there is something wrong or broken, you still have not presented any ideas or solutions, yet you claim this thread is a discussion.  What are we discussing besides the protest to continue begin afk without consequence?

TL;DR

Come on now.  Really?

This is feedback?

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

@VampirePirate

[Wolfchild07]

"Inactivity" is garbage! I get the same thing when I'm casting abilities and shooting enemies. "Herp derp around like a 5 yr old with ADD". Um, no. Make it less ridiculous. If there are multiple button/key inputs, then regardless if I'm standing in one spot or not, I should not go "inactive".

[DreamsmithJane]

You think, because you pressed a single button at some point within the last couple of minutes and then fooled around in chat, you should be counted as actively playing the game? Please. You don't believe that. You just found a way to avoid effort, and you're mad that treating the game as an afterthought got you caught by the simplest afterthought of a failsafe. And for all that it is an afterthought and a band-aid, it exists specifically because the game's developers don't want you claiming to play when we all know you're not playing. "What if you have to leave?" Then leave, but don't expect the game to pretend you didn't. No, you don't get to AFK and get treated like an active player. Bloody hell, some people are so lazy they'll cheat their way out of entertainment. Sound Quake. You use Sound Quake, and you're mad about an inactivity timer doing exactly what it was intended to do. WOW. Instead of the timer, it's Sound Quake that should be removed.

Here's an idea. How about, instead of fighting to be rewarded for wasting electricity, you ask for more interesting enemies and missions that make you want to take them on? Or did it escape your notice that you're logging in for 20 minutes, or 40, or hours at a time, and then doing whatever you can not to be engaged while the game runs?

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

you realize that banshee isn't just "sound quake and chill" right?

or do people not realize sonar, silence and sonic boom are actually a thing?

[Azamagon]

Seems like this is appropriate to bring up:

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 29/06/2017 at 1:54 PM, Wolfchild07 said:

"Inactivity" is garbage! I get the same thing when I'm casting abilities and shooting enemies. "Herp derp around like a 5 yr old with ADD". Um, no. Make it less ridiculous. If there are multiple button/key inputs, then regardless if I'm standing in one spot or not, I should not go "inactive".

Actually, there's a very good reason that inactivity triggers off even though you do small movements and cast abilities:

Macros exist.

I know, it sounds really simple, but it used to be a big problem in game that players who picked frames like Nekros (back when he had to press 3 every 3 seconds or not get the most out of the ability) or Mag, even Mesa, and used macro bindings to make a frame not only use an ability, but also target, move x one way, move y another way, retarget, recast, move x, move y, recast.

They used to sit their frame in a corner and set up the macro, and alt-tab out to watch videos. They could stay talking with their team to know if they were in trouble, but they were doing something that didn't require attention.

This is one of the key reasons they changed things like Greedy Pull Mag, auto-target Peacemaker, Nekros' Desecrate and so on. They were all exploitable, macro-capable abilities.

So yeah, inactivity in Warframe is bigger than just 'sitting in Soundquake for four minutes' it's been going on for years, and it's the reason DE implemented the timer based on overall activity, such as full movement, jumping, using weapons and abilities on the move, and so on, not on things that can be made into a macro.

[Wolfchild07]

3 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Actually, there's a very good reason that inactivity triggers off even though you do small movements and cast abilities:

Macros exist.

I know, it sounds really simple, but it used to be a big problem in game that players who picked frames like Nekros (back when he had to press 3 every 3 seconds or not get the most out of the ability) or Mag, even Mesa, and used macro bindings to make a frame not only use an ability, but also target, move x one way, move y another way, retarget, recast, move x, move y, recast.

They used to sit their frame in a corner and set up the macro, and alt-tab out to watch videos. They could stay talking with their team to know if they were in trouble, but they were doing something that didn't require attention.

This is one of the key reasons they changed things like Greedy Pull Mag, auto-target Peacemaker, Nekros' Desecrate and so on. They were all exploitable, macro-capable abilities.

So yeah, inactivity in Warframe is bigger than just 'sitting in Soundquake for four minutes' it's been going on for years, and it's the reason DE implemented the timer based on overall activity, such as full movement, jumping, using weapons and abilities on the move, and so on, not on things that can be made into a macro.

Ok, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation.