[U21 Megathread] Dual-wield Thrown Melee And Secondary Weapons Feedback

[Helicopterodactyl]

Tried with Euphona Prime/Orvius and the Orvius isn't doing the special thrown ability where it suspends the target. Has anyone else tried this? Or is this intended? I haven't seen a note on it but I could have missed it.

[FuriousOni]

10 minutes ago, Helicopterodactyl said:

Tried with Euphona Prime/Orvius and the Orvius isn't doing the special thrown ability where it suspends the target. Has anyone else tried this? Or is this intended? I haven't seen a note on it but I could have missed it.

Tried changing the keybind for channeling and still unable to melee channel while dual wielding. Guessing it's intentional.

[Rooibosy]

I can't do the basic melee combo when I don't have a primary weapon equipped.

Right now i'm using Lex Prime + Glaive Prime without equipping a Primary. The new multi-wield (Secondary equipped) combo works just fine but if I switch to only using Glaive Prime (Melee equipped) I can only do one spinning slash, of which has amazing recovery time and lets me spam turning me into a real beyblade™.

cool glitch 1/010 thx gr8 werk gaiz <3

[Dumcomester]

Please add an option to toggle melee and fire button for this setup without having to change primary fire on primary weapons.

example:

I like to melee with LMB,

I like to fire primaries with... LMB (e for quick melee)

for this dual setup I would like to be able to LMB melee and E for secondary fire

[Skrewyluie]

I have to admit, When I first saw duel-wielding, I was very skeptical. I originally had my expectations set to zero when it was announced and upon taking it for a test drive I was just about ready to give up on it until I began to notice something. I suddenly noticed that If I timed my throws the glaive would glow red and it appeared to be stronger. It wasn't until later that I learned I was doing was using the new "charged throw" which included not only increased power but innate punch through. Impressed by the improvements I holstered my sidearm to see if I could enjoy the new mechanic going just sword alone. However, I was only met with displeasure, the glaive had reverted back into a dull frisbee. No rewarding bonuses for taming my tosses, no choice between slow and bouncy or fast and precise, just toss and forget. While the buffs across the throwing weapon series is a pleasant change, I believe that the new charged throw mechanic should not have been set as an exclusive perk for duel-wielding but rather just be a new throwing mechanic completely. I should not be forced to use a single-handed sidearm in order to enjoy my glaive to the fullest.

[NoLazyShadow]

What about making Exilus Mod that will remove self damage by 50-60%.. So we can foget about one shoting ourselfs by throwing glaive. Second idea -  special mod for glaive that give her vacum effect(you can pick up ammo and stuff from distance by throw) and inprove its guidance ability(just like orvius now)

[LordDarthDan]

1.) It is really terribly bugged. When you execute melee combos, and then pull the pistol trigger, you get stuck in melee animation, but it is never finished (unless you stop it by sliding or aiming).

2,) What are the "unique combos" promised? I see no special "Gun-melee" combos I expected... And where is the ground slam? I think there was one before, might be mistaken...

3.) 

On 29/06/2017 at 8:40 AM, Cryssoberyl said:

I'm not seeing any option to disable this functionality. If there isn't one, please add one as soon as possible. I just want to use my weapons in the old way with the old animations. The new animations remove a lot of personality from the frames since it overrides their animation sets, it looks and feels extremely awkward with some guns, and I am not a fan of the "unique combos", as I thought we would be able to use our stance combos. I'm incredibly grateful for the weapon buffs, but please either tell me there's a way to turn dual-wielding off, or that one will soon be added.

I agree on most point. Plus there was that fun animation like "now you see my glaive... Now you don't ", as if this giant throwing thing could be hidden in a sleeve or something... Loved it...

I think there should still be the way it used to work. Primary, secondary, melee, and hybrid.

Still, it's great that you are thinking about dual-wielding. Maybe glaives were not the est point of entry...

I've been thinking about allowing spearguns to be used not only as guns, but also "gun-melees", similar to gunblades, but with own stances, and still using ammo.

Also, I wonder ifthere could be any way to use dual pistols in "gun-kata" style (seems to fit in Warframe space-ninja theme perfectly). I have a few ideas on it, please message me if ready to listen.

[sickness24]

1 hour ago, NoLazyShadow said:

What about making Exilus Mod that will remove self damage by 50-60%.. So we can foget about one shoting ourselfs by throwing glaive. Second idea -  special mod for glaive that give her vacum effect(you can pick up ammo and stuff from distance by throw) and inprove its guidance ability(just like orvius now)

you can actually prevent ALL self damage by unequipping power throw from your glaive/thrown as mentioned earlier. Power throw makes your last bounce (wich if you have the bounce reduction on would be the first bounce iirc) explode. This is an unlisted funcionallity of the mod that many forget about

[Vafthrudnir]

Since Glaive Prime on dual wield has innate punch through can we extend this to single wield and and remove the necessity for the Glaive Prime to have Power Throw to explode on last bounce? Power Throw is redundant due to it having puncgh through already.

I know you can detonate it manually but on contact is more accurate.

Edited June 30, 2017 by giovanniluca

[NoLazyShadow]

Just now, sickness24 said:

you can actually prevent ALL self damage by unequipping power throw from your glaive/thrown as mentioned earlier. Power throw makes your last bounce (wich if you have the bounce reduction on would be the first bounce iirc) explode. This is an unlisted funcionallity of the mod that many forget about

I use remove detonation to recall my failed throw(i try to do power throws for more dmg status) and try again. And its killing me...sometimes

[EnemyST4ND]

I'd like it better if there was an option to swap the zoom and quick melee keys when dual wielding. I'd also prefer to throw the glaive without charge when I tap the melee button, but that's just me.

[LascarCapable]

Attacking with the melee weapon while dual wielding secondary and melee is extremely clunky and in the end not that enjoyable. I am prevented from attacking with my pistol when my melee weapon animations are playing, and switching from melee attack to thrown attack is also extremely tedious as well. Worse : I sometimes get stuck in melee animations. Also, slam attacks seems way harder to trigger than while using quickmelee or directly switching to it.

We absolutely must be able to break out of grounded melee attack animations as fast as possible. Using melee shouldn't prevent us from shooting when we feel like it. After all, the whole point of that secondary/melee combo is to quickly switch from melee attacks to ranged attacks. That issue with melee attacks just makes everything feel clunkier than it should be. In the end, it makes me regret the old quickmelee.

[Dragazer]

3 hours ago, D20 said:

Attacking with the melee weapon while dual wielding secondary and melee is extremely clunky and in the end not that enjoyable. I am prevented from attacking with my pistol when my melee weapon animations are playing, and switching from melee attack to thrown attack is also extremely tedious as well. Worse : I sometimes get stuck in melee animations. Also, slam attacks seems way harder to trigger than while using quickmelee or directly switching to it.

We absolutely must be able to break out of grounded melee attack animations as fast as possible. Using melee shouldn't prevent us from shooting when we feel like it. After all, the whole point of that secondary/melee combo is to quickly switch from melee attacks to ranged attacks. That issue with melee attacks just makes everything feel clunkier than it should be. In the end, it makes me regret the old quickmelee.

Yeah this system seems honestly disappointing, whats the point of having both weapons in each hand when you can only use one at a time.

There's no advantages in dual wielding if you are only going to use each weapon separately 

It feels the exact same as old quick melee, but now you just see your melee on hand always.

And yeah the bug with getting stuck in melee animation is terrible, especially when you need to cast an ability to save your team/objective but cant because you are basically #*(&#036;%%@

Edited June 30, 2017 by Dragazer

[wtrmlnjuc]

Why isn't dual wielding enabled for dual pistols? Just curious. After all, we single wield them with objective objects.

[GuezMan]

5 hours ago, wtrmlnjuc said:

Why isn't dual wielding enabled for dual pistols? Just curious. After all, we single wield them with objective objects.

It would be cool to just allow you to equip the say Aklex Prime and only wield one Lex Prime in its stead when using this feature, also Channeling either im missing the button for it somewhere or it doesnt exist, i would like to use the orvius's channeling ability, also a lil bug with playing this feature, if you only have the secondary and Thrown melee equiped and you switch to just the glaive you get a slide attack not matter if youre croutching or clicking the Melee button standing up(either it was intended to only be this feature and not be able to switch to just melee, or the alternative a fix would be nice) :).

[aslanc16]

15 hours ago, LordDarthDan said:

1.) It is really terribly bugged. When you execute melee combos, and then pull the pistol trigger, you get stuck in melee animation, but it is never finished (unless you stop it by sliding or aiming).

This bug can happen also during a long / spam melee combo without using ranged and/or ability ... thus, locking / stucking you into a posture where you cannot attack what-so-ever.  Jolley good when you are in the midst of large enemy waves ... despite we can break the pose by using a quick aim-peek; during the heat of battle as well as large explosions and graphic colours - the common result is finding yourself downed on the ground before realised you were stuck in that pose again.  Of course, there will always be certain groups of t's who will claim: "just check your HP bar, duh" ... well, for myself - I am not skilled enough to have both my eyes divided, one on the heat of battle whilst the other on the side of the Hud. ... and of course, there will always be that good ol' "git gud" comment.

I really tried to like this new feature ... trust me, I really tried.

[artemisfortune]

Without the ability to hold our thrown weapons and aim them until release, this feature is pretty much useless beyond just looks.

[Tachyys]

To say I was excited about this feature would be an understatement. To say I'm satisfied with it's launch state would be an overstatement. (TL:DR at bottom)

I'm going to ignore bugs and such for obvious reasons, though it's worth mentioning that they contribute their fair share of rigidity to the combat. I think there's only one thing that makes this feel bad (with an honorable mention to not being able to use the Glaive and a Lex the same way as before.) This single issue is that this doesn't feel like dual-wielding. There are currently no reasons to use it, as there are no benefits aside from the fancy charge throw that can't be done outside of it. There aren't any unique mechanics with the firearm, and the lengthy combos more than make up the holster time saved by having both out at once. In fact, the only major change (the basic combo) could have been achieved if the default quick melee combo were replaced with the dual-wielding combo. A pistol finisher, a strike-shot-strike combo, there are just certain things that could have been brought out to make it feel as if this is the hybridization one expects from the Tenno, "masters of gun and blade."

As far as the hard functionality of the feature (and still related to the feel of it), the unique feature of a glaive is its reach, and the ability to melee at range. Aside from aesthetic, this is what the throwing class brings to the table to compete with other melee weapons. By pairing them with a pistol, you trivialize them and make a silly novelty of the glaive's throw mechanic, as the pistol (should) always outperform a melee weapon at ranged combat. This update was a much needed breath of life for throwing weapons, with the buffs and the new timed throwing mechanics, but I would argue that it should have been just that: a glaive update, with pistols being paired with weapons that suffer at range, providing an actual reason to want a pistol in the hand not carrying a sword, etc. I would submit that half the problems people have mentioned thusfar (again, bugs aside) wouldn't feel as bad or unnecessary if they just felt that there was something gained by using the feature.

 

There would be nothing wrong if it were in a closed beta or beta environment. The problem is that a game's mainstream should not be the beta environment. A game's mainstream should be adaptable, but not volatile; open for suggestion or comment, but refined enough to warrant little of either. Remember that this is the exact problem people have with the Focus Schools; Feature Beta, but it is implemented as a part of the mainstream game. That alone makes the problems feel worse than they are.

 

TL:DR No unique functionality, Throwing/Pistol is redundant, this is another feature beta like Focus.

[Dragazer]

15 minutes ago, Tachyys said:

To say I was excited about this feature would be an understatement. To say I'm satisfied with it's launch state would be an overstatement. (TL:DR at bottom)

I'm going to ignore bugs and such for obvious reasons, though it's worth mentioning that they contribute their fair share of rigidity to the combat. I think there's only one thing that makes this feel bad (with an honorable mention to not being able to use the Glaive and a Lex the same way as before.) This single issue is that this doesn't feel like dual-wielding. There are currently no reasons to use it, as there are no benefits aside from the fancy charge throw that can't be done outside of it. There aren't any unique mechanics with the firearm, and the lengthy combos more than make up the holster time saved by having both out at once. In fact, the only major change (the basic combo) could have been achieved if the default quick melee combo were replaced with the dual-wielding combo. A pistol finisher, a strike-shot-strike combo, there are just certain things that could have been brought out to make it feel as if this is the hybridization one expects from the Tenno, "masters of gun and blade."

As far as the hard functionality of the feature (and still related to the feel of it), the unique feature of a glaive is its reach, and the ability to melee at range. Aside from aesthetic, this is what the throwing class brings to the table to compete with other melee weapons. By pairing them with a pistol, you trivialize them and make a silly novelty of the glaive's throw mechanic, as the pistol (should) always outperform a melee weapon at ranged combat. This update was a much needed breath of life for throwing weapons, with the buffs and the new timed throwing mechanics, but I would argue that it should have been just that: a glaive update, with pistols being paired with weapons that suffer at range, providing an actual reason to want a pistol in the hand not carrying a sword, etc. I would submit that half the problems people have mentioned thusfar (again, bugs aside) wouldn't feel as bad or unnecessary if they just felt that there was something gained by using the feature.

 

There would be nothing wrong if it were in a closed beta or beta environment. The problem is that a game's mainstream should not be the beta environment. A game's mainstream should be adaptable, but not volatile; open for suggestion or comment, but refined enough to warrant little of either. Remember that this is the exact problem people have with the Focus Schools; Feature Beta, but it is implemented as a part of the mainstream game. That alone makes the problems feel worse than they are.

 

TL:DR No unique functionality, Throwing/Pistol is redundant, this is another feature beta like Focus.

Yeah other than the special timed throw, this system is pretty much just visual.

One way to fix this would be to have the ability to shoot and melee at the same time.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Dragazer

[CpTKugelHagel]

Will there be Animations for all the differnet Noble and Agile animation sets? 

currently if you dual wield the warframe goes back into the basic animation set (same as when you dont equip any animation set on a warfame)

Edited July 1, 2017 by CpTKugelHagel
Spelling

[p3z1]

1. Animations are kinda broken for dual-wielding it seems, mostly on the sidearm sie. The reload meter ain't full, but the animation's done by then.

2. Throwing really should be just a one-handed action.

3. I doubt anyone uses rebound, and should be replaced with a mod that allows a bit of homing capability. As it stands, there is only a meta mod that consists of quick return and power throw (to some extent whirlwind).

4. You should be able to "aim" while charging up your glaive.

5. Quick throws should have a longer delay (maybe +.25s). Players can nuke themselves with the aformentioned power throw+quick return combo.

Otherwise, dual-wielding shows a LOT of promise.

[Azamagon]

So, I'll put my feedback in here:

Nice stuff:

• Charge-throw is cool, gives incentive to time the throw better
• Having throws available in the air is really cool and has its uses for sure
• Ability to recall a thrown Glaive with a simple meleebutton press while going gun+glaive is very nice (similar to channeling while meleemoding Glaives)

Concerns:

• Charge-throw, why isn't that accessible in Meleemode too? (I can sort of understand it not being in Quick melee when using a Primary, but not missing in Meleemode)
• Slam attacks are really tedious to do while going gun+glaive (have to look STRAIGHT down). Any way to make them quicker to access?
• Why are aerial throws not also useable when going meleemode with a Glaive?
• Why is Power Throw still giving the explosion-effect on the last bounce? Or better yet; Why does the selfdamage still exist on Glaive-explosions? Remove either one please!
• Can we have the ability to recall the Glaive even when quickthrowing with a Primary? The charged throw and midair throw are enough incentives to go gun+glaive or meleemode (with the unique combos an extra incentive for gun+glaive, while channeling and blocking are enough for meleemode (well, if blocking and channeling were to become actual useful features, that is))
• As @D20 pointed out: Why can't we shoot with the gun while the melee animations are playing? Kind of would be the whole expected point of this dualwield feature...
• As @p3z1 mentions: Being able to still aim while charging the glaive would feel like a good reason to dualwield.
• "Stuck in melee spam"-bug really needs to be fixed.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Azamagon

[Snowbluff]

Dual wielding sucks. Doesn't really add anything to the game ATM, unless you mean throwing a glaive while using a pistol, which used to work with all guns before they broke charging weapons.

[NoLazyShadow]

Just now, Snowbluff said:

Dual wielding sucks. Doesn't really add anything to the game ATM, unless you mean throwing a glaive while using a pistol, which used to work with all guns before they broke charging weapons.

This combo can deal with large groups of enemy's with ez or CC aplying corrosive procs at the same time. And before you say. It can deal wth lvl 80+ without strugling

[-Ryuurei-]

After some fair amount of usage of the feature and readin others' feedback, here's mine:

Positives:

• New charge throw feels satisfying to use, and it's increased stats and punch through make it worthwhile.
• We can FINALLY throw glaives without a prior melee strike first once more, I might use them again for the first time since charge attacks broke them.
• The spam combo for astral twilight (haven't tested with gleaming talon) is decent, not as strong as full melee, but still powerful enough to use occasionally. Mobility on it is terrible though.

Negatives:

• Charged and aerial throw not accessible in full melee.
• Charged throw starts lower and clips on terrain VERY often, usually bouncing before it seemingly should.
• Bounces have borderline nonexistant enemy tracking, making quick return + power throw practically mandatory.
• No channeled throw for orvius, completely removing it's unique function.
• Secondary completely unusable while using melee.
• Melee spam bug
• Starting an aerial throw and then landing cancels the whole thing, which feels very awkward.
• No gun-melee hybrid combos (melee strike, melee strike, shoot, melee toss, shoot the glaive to explode it (autotargets it) for example).
• Can't use the melee to block while aiming, even though this would seem perfectly logical, ESPECIALLY with glaives/thrown melee.
• Throwing with equipped primary also still requires a melee strike. (would prefer none, just no charged throw and blocking functionality)
• Certain "dual" secondaries can't be dual wielded (castanas, hikou and kunai variants). A lowered firerate would be the only change needed to account for only 1 hand throwing. Unique hybrid combos could include attaching a castana to a glaive to increase the power and size of the blast radius, though this is a little far fetched (just a hopeful suggestion).
• No aiming and charging.

Possible solutions to certain issues:

• Enemy tracking: combine the atomos chaining and halikar homing for slight corrections to deal with moving enemies, add a mod that increases tracking distance.
• Orvius functionality: direct hits from a charged throw orvius transition into it's channeled throw effect, alternatively, manual detonation causes it to seek an enemy within tracking range to perform it's unique function of instead of exploding immediately.
• Charged throw clipping: make the projectile start at the same height as uncharged.
• Aerial throw cancellation: make the charge take priority over swapping air-surface animations. (my best guess, probably not this easy)
• Mobility on melee combo: allow for slightly more movement while using it.
• Aim&charge: allow the throws to take advantage of secondary ads and remove screenshake (it messes it up occasionally).

This is all I could think of for now, though I'll add or remove as I play more. Overall it IS a step forward for the thrown melee category though, but it could be better.