[Please lock]

[Gurpgork]

I'm going to skip the verbose introduction I had planned for this thread and get right into it. 

The whole purpose of the Nekros rework in the days leading up to the release of his Prime was to free up his hands so that he could participate in a mission, rather than just sitting back and mindlessly spamming Desecrate.

The problem with this, however, is that there's nothing for Nekros to do with his freed up hands. Thanks to the way Shadows of the Dead was reworked (capped at 7 Shadows, recast to heal Shadows), Nekros really has no incentive to actively seek out kills beyond the 7 he needs to raise his posse of zombies. Before the rework, SotD provided massive incentive to keep killing, thanks to its finite duration in conjunction with the ability to have up to 20 Shadows (the maximum that the game would remember). Because of the way the ability used to work, it demanded a massive kill rate personally by Nekros or his minions to sustain it. If you hit that button, you had to kill 20 more enemies before it expired to keep a 100% uptime on the most powerful army you could sustain.

Now? Nekros only really has to kill 7 enemies, and then he can sit back and let his allies do all of the work. He'll get infinite energy from keeping Desecrate up, and he can use that to sustain his minions indefinitely, and, in theory, completely sustain himself without ever personally killing another enemy again. 

There are definitely other problems with his kit. But I don't think any of them really measure up to the fact that his kit is absolutely passive. A Warframe focused around death want to surround himself with death, not hang back and occasionally recast SotD. 

Give him a reason to personally kill stuff. Take the Harrow route and give him bonuses when he kills enemies. Make corpses produced by Nekros's kills explode and proc viral when they're Desecrated. Make Nekros's kills enrage Shadows, increasing their speed and damage. Stuff like that. Please just do something to give Nekros personally a reason to actively participate in a mission. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Gurpgork

[Dhrekr]

I don't know. I find the argument a bit confusing. And, for the record, I find the current iteration of Nekros to be loads of fun.

 

Let me explain: killing enemies is why I play Warframe. Even with seven shadows out, you can be sure that I'm killing more enemies than my seven shadows are.

My incentive, you see, is having fun. I don't need SotD to boss me around.

Of course, you can choose to be passive and let your shadows do the work. You are free to do it. it is your choice, and I would never take your choice away. But, as far as I see, your passivity is a choice that you can change. It is not forced upon you by anyone.

 

So you see, from my point of view, your argument boils down to "I choose to play Nekros in a very boring way, and now I find him boring, please change him".

But maybe Nekros is just not for you. That's also ok. There's loads of alternatives ;)

[Keiiken]

I disagree with your assertions.

Enemies scale in level over time, especially for longer missions, they will out level your minions and start killing them.
You have the potential to find not only higher level but specific minions (eximus) to replace your first wave of summons.

I find plenty of incentive to keep killing rather than stand there.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

I have to ask, are you the type of person that turns on Ember's WoF and then just sits there and does nothing? I mean, the same argument could be made there.

[EothasianBoar]

He could have been doing more stuff with dead enemies, for sure. But I have no issue with his SotD.

Among his kit, I dislike Terrify the most. It's just there as an "Oh S#&$!" button. Since I find that situation where you are overwhelm are quite rare in this game, using Terrify is just a way to annoy your team when they have to search for enemy that ran away and stuck their face in the corner somewhere.

If you find the meta or inactive play-style boring, just don't do it. My Banshee never sit there with just SQ on, my Ember never just stand there with WoF on, I could have play an ice chroma and run around with massive armor and damage boost, I have all the mod needed for it, but I play toxic Chroma instead(mainly because I like green energy and DE still adamant that limiting cosmetic choice is a good passive.) I just choose to play with the build and style that's fun for me.

Edit: If you want to talk about a really passive kit, Octavia is your girl.

Edited July 7, 2017 by AhLiu338

[GrayArchon]

Yeah, I'm a little confused. Why do you need a reason to kill things? Isn't that just the point of the game?

[redeyedtreefrog]

Arguably, nekros still is an interactive frame, because, aside from the minions, he really doesn't have any abilities that are going to damage the enemy, and let's face it; your weapons are going to be better than theirs. Hencve, nekros is a very gun-centric frame, but still interactive.

Ember is even more passive; her WoF can kill low-level enemies in perpetuity without caring about line of sight.

Banshee is even worse, with her soundquake that is probably one of the worst-designed abilities in the entire game, right after mirage's prism pre-rework.

Octavia is possibly the LEAST interactive, even counting banshee, because for her abilities to deal damage, she is required to keep as many enemies alive as possible until her mallet kills them. To accomplish this, she turns invisible with metronome and hides somewhere she won't be hit by a stray bullet.

 

And by your argument, limbo is the least interactive warframe of all, because he doesn't need to do or kill anything except what is required for the mission. Safe in the rift, he can force his teammates to do all the work.

And what about frost? in a defense mission, the only thing his teammates really keep him around for is snowglobe. So long as his snowglobe stays up, his teammates will be satisfied, for the entire mission. That's not very interactive at all.

[NinthAria]

I mean...you could just stand there. Or you could play the game.

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

I've heard loads of people state Nekros as their favorite frame, both before and after the rework.

He's not very exciting to me either but he serves a purpose, is liked and is in a good place atm.

Better not mess him up...

[BiancaRoughfin]

57 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I'm going to skip the verbose introduction I had planned for this thread and get right into it. 

The whole purpose of the Nekros rework in the days leading up to the release of his Prime was to free up his hands so that he could participate in a mission, rather than just sitting back and mindlessly spamming Desecrate.

The problem with this, however, is that there's nothing for Nekros to do with his freed up hands. Thanks to the way Shadows of the Dead was reworked (capped at 7 Shadows, recast to heal Shadows), Nekros really has no incentive to actively seek out kills beyond the 7 he needs to raise his posse of zombies. Before the rework, SotD provided massive incentive to keep killing, thanks to its finite duration in conjunction with the ability to have up to 20 Shadows (the maximum that the game would remember). Because of the way the ability used to work, it demanded a massive kill rate personally by Nekros or his minions to sustain it. If you hit that button, you had to kill 20 more enemies before it expired to keep a 100% uptime on the most powerful army you could sustain.

Now? Nekros only really has to kill 7 enemies, and then he can sit back and let his allies do all of the work. He'll get infinite energy from keeping Desecrate up, and he can use that to sustain his minions indefinitely, and, in theory, completely sustain himself without ever personally killing another enemy again. 

There are definitely other problems with his kit. But I don't think any of them really measure up to the fact that his kit is absolutely passive. A Warframe focused around death want to surround himself with death, not hang back and occasionally recast SotD. 

Give him a reason to personally kill stuff. Take the Harrow route and give him bonuses when he kills enemies. Make corpses produced by Nekros's kills explode and proc viral when they're Desecrated. Make Nekros's kills enrage Shadows, increasing their speed and damage. Stuff like that. Please just do something to give Nekros personally a reason to actively participate in a mission. 

Odd you saying that, i dont recall playing LazyFrame with my Nekros and dont often see others doing that either. I often see players running around with him killing enemies so that they can queue the stronger ones in their resurrection list. Desecrate being constantly active does not mean a player only needs to idle for it to work as they still have to run around gather energy/health orbs to keep the skill fueled.

The fact people are idling with a warframe wile just letting their skills do all the killing is not always tied to the power that warframe possesses but many times to the player its self being Lazy.

[Gurpgork]

Maybe I'm just in a vile mood and need to go lie down.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I found the Nekros Passive lacks interactivity title to be funny. Passive hehe

[Akeiresh]

I find Nekros to be anything *but* passive. I can't even see him be passive in the first place.

Depending on how decent your teammates are, you may need to kill more enemies to get health/energy/loot from Desecrate. I won't even say anything about Terrify besides it being decent enough at making certain high priority enemies stop attacking. (Who even uses Soul Punch?), and for Shadows of the Dead, well, as someone said in this thread already, enemies continuously gain levels. You have to kill them to make sure that your shadows aren't going to be several levels under the current enemy you're fighting. They're terrific for clogging up doors and corridors as a wall of bullet sponges so you can kill off any enemies that you need without needing to worry too much about incoming fire, especially so if you're using the augment. 

However, I'd definitely like some kind of a rework to either his Soul Punch or Terrify. Mostly former though, because I can never find any use for that ability, and I don't want to put in the augment for it into my kit because it's a waste of a mod slot, especially so if someone's Oberon with their own augment or is ranked into Vazarin. 

 

[SenorClipClop]

22 hours ago, Akeiresh said:

Soul Punch ... I can never find any use for that ability

It's pretty niche, but I use Soul Punch for Oxium farming. It's point-click and kills most Ospreys at mid-range levels (except the Oxium ones), and it shuts off the Oxium Ospreys for a bit, preventing them from the divebomb that wrecks their drops.

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

It's pretty niche, but I use Soul Punch for Oxium farming. It's point-click and kills most Ospreys at mid-range levels (except the Oxium ones), and it shuts off the Oxium Ospreys for a bit, preventing them from the divebomb that wrecks their drops.

I just bring Soul Survivor for pugs, at least whenever I decide to take Nekros for a walk (I'm an Ash main). Other than stupid energy drain is a fun Augment.

I would like if Creeping Terrify not only slowed terrified enemies but also gave Nekros some sort of terror aura that causes any enemy witnessing Nekros do a Finisher or find a dismembered corpse (or piece) or witness a desecration happening to also get terrified. Something like 5 or 8s thing.