Can we please do something about QT staggers?

[Jobistober]

2 hours ago, Hecro said:

It still doesn't stagger me at all

I think it depends on how much damage you are taking while QT is active. The wiki indicates "strong hits" will cause a stagger while weaker hits will not.

[Legion-Shields]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)zeroexalpha said:

I agree, but my point is that it is too punishing for actually using it. A stagger would be fine if it didnt loop infinitely for each incoming bullet. 

The only times I get stunlocked to death is when I either get caught out in the open versus ranged enemies or for whatever pathetic reason I find myself in the middle of a mob of melee units. Neither situation should go unpunished regardless of mod load out.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Legion-Shields

[kyori]

Perhaps the stunlock is the balancing.

[BetaNoire]

1 hour ago, Jobistober said:

I think it depends on how much damage you are taking while QT is active. The wiki indicates "strong hits" will cause a stagger while weaker hits will not.

What's the thresh hold?

[Jobistober]

15 minutes ago, BetaNoire said:

What's the thresh hold?

That I don't know...

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Feedback FTW!

[Wiergate]

12 hours ago, Legion-Shields said:

The only times I get stunlocked to death is when I either get caught out in the open versus ranged enemies or for whatever pathetic reason I find myself in the middle of a mob of melee units. Neither situation should go unpunished regardless of mod load out.

Agreed, but a situation which could normally be managed regardless of mod loadout now becomes a deathtrap because Quick Thinking has been altered or is bugged.
That's what this thread is about. 

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

13 hours ago, Legion-Shields said:

The only times I get stunlocked to death is when I either get caught out in the open versus ranged enemies or for whatever pathetic reason I find myself in the middle of a mob of melee units. Neither situation should go unpunished regardless of mod load out.

It only takes one stray bullet from a high level Grineer Heavy Gunner to stagger you long enough to continue the chain of never-ending stagger. It really get's ridiculous when you have multiples of them, pretty much any enemy that has a "hard" hitting attack counts, so Bombards, Ballistas, they all can do it.

I don't mind being punished, I'd just like to be able to deal with the problem instead of sit there like I'm being teleported by a Commander. I get that even QT can't save me from EVERYTHING, and that's fine, but even lower level "heavy" hitters can make you deal with constant staggers until you die. That's a little too harsh.

Especially since half of the time a death with QT just kills you outright, instead of putting you into a downed state.

Edited July 25, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[Dark_Sp00n]

16 hours ago, Hecro said:

It still doesn't stagger me at all

That may be, because just like me, you use your melee a lot, and a lot of melee stances prevent you from being staggered.

To be honest: Most of my builds are based on Vitality, Quick Thinking, Rage, Primed Flow and a maxed out Life Strike, only weakness being those BS magnetic procs, which should just reduce max energy like the Sortie conditions do.

The main result being that I don't really use my shooting weapons anymore, the other result being that I simply don't die. RIP Mesa Passive, welcome to the melee only update.

[Thundervision]

18 hours ago, (PS4)zeroexalpha said:

Can we put a 2 second delay between staggers, so quick thinking can actually allow us to think quickly?

Yea, while getting rid of stagger would be sooo good, getting a cooldown would be a happy medium.

There are mechanics for stagger resistance and stagger recovery, but there's nothing for stagger CD. Getting one for QT would make its use not so questionable, because most of the time when I play with QT vs. the Grineer, I'm getting stunlocked to death thanks to Seekers with Krakens and Lancers with their Hinds, because those are burst weapons with pretty high damage per shot.

 

[Lion]

2 hours ago, Thundervision said:

Yea, while getting rid of stagger would be sooo good, getting a cooldown would be a happy medium.

There are mechanics for stagger resistance and stagger recovery, but there's nothing for stagger CD. Getting one for QT would make its use not so questionable, because most of the time when I play with QT vs. the Grineer, I'm getting stunlocked to death thanks to Seekers with Krakens and Lancers with their Hinds, because those are burst weapons with pretty high damage per shot.

 

Agreed, I would love to see a timed delay between staggers. Would still be punishing but manageable (And that's how mods should work.) 

[Aeon94]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Or you could equip the exilus mod "pain threshold".

Increase stagger recovery by 160%.

 

 

17 hours ago, (PS4)zeroexalpha said:

Doesn't effect QT Staggers. You can test it

Used both on Volt and didn't see any effect..

Stunlock'd to death :(

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

2 hours ago, Thundervision said:

Yea, while getting rid of stagger would be sooo good, getting a cooldown would be a happy medium.

There are mechanics for stagger resistance and stagger recovery, but there's nothing for stagger CD. Getting one for QT would make its use not so questionable, because most of the time when I play with QT vs. the Grineer, I'm getting stunlocked to death thanks to Seekers with Krakens and Lancers with their Hinds, because those are burst weapons with pretty high damage per shot.

 

Yeah, I could honestly see that as being completely fair.

... remember the Nightwatch Seekers at higher levels?

uuugggghhhhh

[viperveteran]

On 24/07/2017 at 5:39 PM, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Or you could equip the exilus mod "pain threshold".

Increase stagger recovery by 160%.

 

I tried it out and it works. TBH QT stagger should normally function like that. I was able to role behind cover when I was staggered with PT but without PT I can't do that. It seems as though DE may have to tweak staggers in general maybe just get rid of PT and reduce all staggers by 160%.

[Wiergate]

4 hours ago, viperveteran said:

I tried it out and it works. TBH QT stagger should normally function like that. I was able to role behind cover when I was staggered with PT but without PT I can't do that. It seems as though DE may have to tweak staggers in general maybe just get rid of PT and reduce all staggers by 160%.

I've tried it as well but with opposite results. In some cases Pain Threshold exacerbated the problem. I don't know how you tested it, but I suspect we'll get different outcomes depending on the damage type, hit frequency, stagger potential inherent in the attack etc. etc. 
To be clear: QT plus PT has in some cases led to situations which could have been safely managed turning into a complete stunlock due to animation queuing, more so than QT without PT.  

If nothing else, this would seem to demonstrate a lack of consistency which in turn demonstrates that this is a bug or a poorly implemented change which needs to be reviewed.  

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

On 7/24/2017 at 5:42 PM, BetaNoire said:

What's the thresh hold?

Losing your armor integrity and taking the health hit is apparently enough to trigger it after the Chains of Harrow update.  Yesterday, I got caught trying to find an injector to heal my armor during the elevator phase.  I received stagger after stagger with time enough to shoot 1 bullet before the next health hit got me and staggered me.  It was frustrating, not fun, and a definite change (not in the patch notes, so I'm assuming a bug) from how QT worked before.

[Xzorn]

They didn't technically change QT. They changed the stagger animation.

You can't roll out of the stagger because dodge roll no longer overwrites the stagger animation.

Try to dodge through a Roller. It will pull you right out of your roll.

Pain Threshold does not affect this since it's a priority listing on animation effects. Your window to move comes up quicker but your ability to ignore the stagger because you're rolling is not affected so you can still very much be stagger locked. In addition you can now be brought out of a skillful dodge and stagger locked.

You can see this for yourself in this video where I'm using Pain Threshold and brought out of my roll twice.....

Not only does this reduce the value of skillful dodges in general but it means that even with Pain Threshold QT has less value than previous.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

They didn't technically change QT. They changed the stagger animation.

Except I'm getting staggered at times when I wouldn't before.

Either way, there's no mention of "Stagger" or "Quick Thinking" in the patch notes.  It would be nice if DE would address this in some form or another.

[Xzorn]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

Except I'm getting staggered at times when I wouldn't before.

Either way, there's no mention of "Stagger" or "Quick Thinking" in the patch notes.  It would be nice if DE would address this in some form or another.

 

I can't say for sure on that.  I only use QT on 3 frames. I just know the stagger animation itself has been changed.

I noticed because of the effect it had on Dodge rolls which are an important part of my game play.

Yea, there's a pile of undocumented changes recently.  My favorite is Vacuum reduced to 11.5m from 12m.  Someone likes to poke the bear.

[Nirrel]

On 24/07/2017 at 11:42 PM, BetaNoire said:

What's the thresh hold?

It seems 50 dmg taken will trigger the stagger effect. Tested it in the simulacrum. Up to 50 was fine. The moment that I hit 50 dmg taken I started to stagger every single time.

[Mudfam]

I've also noticed being staggered out of rolls and such, but not only, and I attributed this to the result of other nerfs. I'm sure a lot of things that didn't previously stagger you at all now stagger (e.g. vitals failing in JV). Seems to me that possibly multiple nerfs / changes were made to QT in update 21 (including pain threshold), resulting in the mod only being useful on tankier frames but worthless on those that really need it. More armour or other damage reduction = higher threshold for staggers.

I tested pain threshold both in the simulacrum and in floods, it doesn't help at all imo. As soon as it kicks in you just repeat staggers really fast and then drop having lost all energy too, no way to get away.

I posted what about what I think was specifically going on since U21 in this thread:

I'd be more than happy if QT was just reverted back to its pre Update 21 status, this nerf was completely undeserved, especially as it only really affects squishy frames while still supporting EHP monsters.

[BetaNoire]

On 7/24/2017 at 4:17 PM, Jobistober said:

I think it depends on how much damage you are taking while QT is active. The wiki indicates "strong hits" will cause a stagger while weaker hits will not.

Does armor affect it? 

[Cyandana]

Last time I used it yes. QT stagger is in place to prevent rage + QT  cheese. I personally think that the two should be made exclusive and the stagger removed.