No more energy regen

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

Energy siphon is a poor excuse to generate sufficient energy and honestly just ALWAYS left me wanting something more effective. I also couldn't stand using blind rage due to the poor energy economy. Zenuriks energy regen was the only thing that encouraged and allowed me to have fun with high energy cost builds... Orbs are just RNG.. RIP my blind rage chroma.. You were barely able to recast powers after your duration ran out. Now you cannot XD well everyone. Hope our focus trees so t get the nerf too hard.

Edited September 15, 2017 by (XB1)FISTO ROBOT0

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Nothing lasts forever.

You'll have to settle for builds with less power strength and/or more efficiency.

[NightBlitz]

never used it, so im going to be unaffected by that "loss"

[ChaosSpectre86]

Zenurik bandaided the energy economy all these years and because of that, we have gotten used to just having energy. If that passive is removed, then its actually better for the game because we can finally have it addressed as an actual fix, and not a bandaid.

I didn't get a Zenurik lens for a long time, and when I finally did, I kept it on constantly, which made the rest of the focus system sort of useless. Energy needs more depth to it, but focus is holding it back.

[SurrealEdge]

Why not use energy pads? I mean really, we all had seen this coming with how exploitable Zenurik is.

[Jobistober]

The era of the cheese fest is coming to an end.

Plenty of other ways to regain energy relatively quickly: Trinity, Harrow, Entropy Burst, to name a few.

[Hemmo67]

Rage

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Next up: Gear wheel rework.

200 items per slot, really? That's not OP at all.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

I'll miss it for sure, but it will be okay if the forced operator game play isn't more siphon/Harrow quest garbage. Really wish they'd shown operator fighting, it's my only concern.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

39 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

never used it, so im going to be unaffected by that "loss"

Yup

[KiroTheTraveler]

There's still the Synoid Gammacor!

[DeadScream]

As much as I always use energy overflow, I realize this passive alone makes the game too easy in a lot of cases (except against infested, maybe, as you spend your time losing all your energy and eating the ground). 

We can't pretend to a game balance if we keep so much power. I hope the new system allows cool features without granting too much game breaking advantages to the players.

[PsiWarp]

Energy's a dime a dozen.

Of course, now you might consider sitting in a Cataclysm or asking Limbo to Banish you.

[Chipputer]

4 energy/sec for the remainder of the mission after just under 3 minutes of waiting for it to charge has always been broken. I've been saying it since day one and I'm still saying it now.

Zenurik isn't the only one that'll disappear. My precious, "turn high status elemental weapons into slash monsters," with Madurai will go and quick recharging fast-revives will be going, as well. Shadow Step will be gone. Unairu is inherently a balanced school since most of what it does is actually utility and doesn't mess with things in such a way as to break them. Reduced armor on being hit by a melee weapon and increased player armor? Nowhere near broken. It's gone too, though.

The focus system has had problems since its inception and the only way to fix them is to completely redesign it. Glad they are. Just hoping it'll be decent.

[ChaoticEdge]

Don't worry, we got harrow.  EVERYONE GO HARROW MODE NOW! 

Spoiler

Praise the Lord for this warframe be the game.

[o.0-]

It's no loss once the Focus change occurs.

I have the Rage mod on my Chroma, that provides enough energy and I have a fully ranked Blind Rage on my build. I can post an image of it later when I can get on my computer.

Edited September 16, 2017 by SPARTAN-187.Thanatos
Chroma build

[Xzorn]

It would seem DE is taking a gamble on the new combat system when they don't actually need to.

The Focus system has functioned as an additional customization layer for your loadout. Some work better with Zenurik, some Naramon and others Madurai. While they're keeping this layer of customization; they're putting all of it's validity in an experimental mode of fighting that could very well end up being as game defining as Archwing. They should have instead kept this layer involved with a system they know works and added additional functions for the combat mode, further increasing the overall depth of customization.

The game has been tuned for the past 2 years to counter things like Zenurik and will very likely not be re-tuned for it's absence.

Energy Leech Eximus have increased four fold, Leech Eximus were added to Corpus who previously did not have Energy Leech. Ancient Disruptors' passive energy drain aura was changed to work off base damage instead of damage inflicted (like Bleeds). DE has made Zenurik a tool for fight the cheezey mechanics they call difficulty for quite a few frames, esp the paper-made casters who cannot rely on mods like Rage.

[DatDarkOne]

I've had Energy Overflow for a long time, and I can honestly say that I won't miss it too much.  Mag was the only frame I used on a regular basis that truly benefited from it.  All my other frames including my bae Ivara all have channeling abilities that blocked Energy Overflow anyway.  

So, won't miss it because I've always had other ways to replenish energy.  Rakta weapons, Supra Vandal with Entropy Burst, etc.  

I am interested in Warrior mode if for no other reason than to avoid the feeling of weakness I had when doing the Harrow Quest.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

The Focus system has functioned as an additional customization layer for your loadout.

Not particularly. Using Madurai for free slash proc shenanigans has always been more of a niche thing than an actually viable one (the procs aren't as strong as they probably should be). The only clever application is bolstering the damage on a pure elemental weapon during an elemental enhancement sortie.

In all other cases you will see dramatic improvement by simply using shadow step or energy overflow and nothing else. There are very few frames that won't see appreciable benefit from either of those and in team situations using Vazarin is viable as long as the player who equips it is capable of staying alive and regenerating energy, as necessary, through various other means (aura, gear wheel, rage, scavenging orbs, Harrow, Trinity, syndicate procs, etc).

While I've used every single focus school and recognized the merits of each one (even including Unairu), the outliers in the balance department, Zenurik and Naramon, were so grossly imbalanced that they began to have to change the difficulty of the game around these two schools. There's no challenge to be had in a melee only situation when players can just go invisible and get massive damage boosts from a swing of their sword and there's no real point to designing enemies with no energy countering mechanics when players have a nigh unlimited amount constantly regenerating, for free, on top of all of the other ways to regenerate them.

It's only if you choose one of the three other schools that you start to notice what Focus was actually intended to be-- useful but non-overpowering buffs with an occasional skill that has application within the battle. CC. Healing. Focused damage. These things work while you're invulnerable so you get free reign to apply them but you can only use them off of cooldown.

Zenurik and Naramon completely bypassed this by giving you abilities so powerful that people began only equipping them in order to use said abilities and completely changed their build philosophy around them, many with the opinion that focus was only useful for passives and had no merit outside of that.

You can say that it opens up customization options but all it really did was open up the ability to forego efficiency mods and slap even more power strength, range, or survival mods on your frame. You can hold up that sign that says, "but think of the niche applications," in response to that statement but the niche applications aren't strong enough, or varied enough, to justify using anything other than the big two and maybe Vazarin in an end game party that's accounting for your use of it.

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

The game has been tuned for the past 2 years to counter things like Zenurik and will very likely not be re-tuned for it's absence.

Energy Leech Eximus have increased four fold, Leech Eximus were added to Corpus who previously did not have Energy Leech. Ancient Disruptors' passive energy drain aura was changed to work off base damage instead of damage inflicted (like Bleeds). DE has made Zenurik a tool for fight the cheezey mechanics they call difficulty for quite a few frames, esp the paper-made casters who cannot rely on mods like Rage.

The game always had things to counter ability spam but has not actually seen too terrible an increase in things to counter energy regeneration. You mention the increase of leeches spawning in the infested faction but this is only noticeable if you spend large amounts of time in survivals and defenses or sortie conditions against them. The majority of players don't do this. No, you don't get to sit from atop your 3 hour survival horse and say, "Zenurik is fine, look at all of my leeches," when the average player isn't finding enough of them to impact their play as long as they are actively moving and fighting and not being as sedentary as possible with heavy CC, end-game setups (outside of sorties).

Corpus having leeches simply puts them on par with the other factions and Disruptors actually being a threat makes them a worthwhile foe. Priority targets are perfectly valid game design. They can be annoying but them not being there would mean that all you would need to take to completely shut down the entire infested faction is a high status radiation weapon to turn off healers.

Having said all of that, toning down the number of leeches that spawn would certainly not hurt anybody's gameplay experience. Infested simply need to be tuned to have other eximus types setup for each of their units as a majority of them are eligible for leeching when that should only be assigned to a few of the more sneaky and melee types, rather than some of the tankier ones.

Finally, when people drop the word, "cheese," in regard to balancing one has to wonder what they mean. One person might say nullifiers are cheese while another would say that they have clearly defined rules and are easy to counter, therefore aren't cheese. One might then point out the much bigger offender in the Comba and Scrambus units which have no aura, no warning that they exist, turn off powers by simply being in an invisible range and mess with your hud as well as blend into the environment and crowd easily enough that players may not be able to see them as easily as something like a nullifier's bubble or a glowing, separately colored eximus unit.

One must then wonder why people are okay with systems existing where one can remain invisible essentially indefinitely or never have to bother with maintenance of one resource ever again simply by pressing a single button one time less than 5 minutes into a mission with an effect that lasts forever. The justification is often, "it's end-game and we should feel powerful," yet it has been proven time and again, before the inception of the focus system, that players do not need this level of energy regeneration and free invisibility to conquer the challenges thrown at them.

Knock it all down. Redo it from the ground up is the only good option they have, here. They can't nerf Zenurik or Naramon because the power has been in the hands of players for far too long. They can't buff the other three schools because then they'll simply exacerbate the problem-- people would still use free energy and invisibility anyway unless they made the other schools so powerful as to obsolete them which would only cause a worse problem with the dreaded power creep!

[(PSN)fullblast35]

Yay ! the true EndGame!

[Xzorn]

@Chipputer

Players might think that Zenurik or Naramon are the best options because they're currently their only options but I can assure you that a group of Energize users makes Zenurik look like scrub tactics and Shadowstep is a self-defeating ability. No endurance runner takes it seriously and endless missions are where most players try to use it.

Our energy pool is in greater danger from cheezy effects like Leech, Disruptors or Magnetic procs than energy management.

In this case Cheezy is referring to a mechanic that is almost or entirely out of the player's control to counter. It's a replacement for legitimate difficulty in an attempt to beat the player into submission with attrition over their own choices or prowess. Energy Leech does this by it's sheer radius while ignoring line of sight along with instant respawns. Disruptors do this by scaling un-resistable drains and sheer number of hook attacks that cannot be humanly dodged at all times. Pretty much anything the player cannot fully counter despite having made 0% mistakes would qualify as Cheezy and yes since the sound changes Scrambus might also be considered. They were fine when you could hear them.

You present that Zenurik reduces the need for energy management to forgo efficiency for other stats as a result while this is true it does not actually play out any differently. Putting Fleeting Expertise on every frame just result in a staple mod and lowers your customization. It doesn't make the game more difficult or increase your need to manage energy. What I think you're looking for is a need to manage energy better but that's not actually been a thing in Warframe since Damage 2.0.  All you actually need to trivialize energy management is a high enough kill rate, an equally trivial thing outside the 3h+ endless missions which is what removing that staple mod actually affects.

30 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

No, you don't get to sit from atop your 3 hour survival horse and say, "Zenurik is fine, look at all of my leeches,"

Others don't get to say my experience of the game doesn't matter because that's not how others play. Only thing that matters is;  it's there.

What exactly is "Powerful" in Warframe? Is it Ignis cuz I can deprive a whole group of kills up to lvl 60? It is Ivara cuz she can go to lvl 9,999 without effort? What exactly is powerful outside the player's own perception. That's the leading cause of problems in a game with scaling enemies. Players get nested in what they think is the game then dictate how it should be played to others when the beauty of Warframe is we play how we want and whatever we choose is the correct way to play. You might claim I'm guilty of this situation and I probably am but as I said previously, Energize makes fun of Zenurik and that will be the result for any style of game play, not just mine.

Shadowstep was not a good idea but at the same time without it; there's a very defined line between frames who can and cannot melee. Without Naramon frames like Banshee, Saryn who are actually designed as melee hybrids can't actually melee much past Sorties. 1/3 of their weapon options are gone. Either way, it's not right to condemn an entire system because of one poorly implemented ability. Esp when that ability is just a band-aid for other poorly implemented things.

I disagree that they couldn't simply nerf Naramon / Zenurik. Just because players won't leave something alone doesn't mean it's the best option. Eventually a Youtuber somewhere will make a video and people will finally realize the truth. Just like over the past year or so players are finally waking up about Crit Vs Status. Maybe they will add new mods, more players will have Energize sets, more frames with energy abilities. Who knows. I just feel the game would have better depth with both Frame and Operator Focus customization. Esp when "Battle Mode" appears to have little purpose outside PoE.

[Troll_Logic]

11 hours ago, Jobistober said:

The era of the cheese fest is coming to an end.

Plenty of other ways to regain energy relatively quickly: Trinity, Harrow, Entropy Burst, to name a few.

Sure.

I think I'll equip my Rhino for this mission.  Oh, I'll also need to bring along my Trinity as well.  Oh....

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

You can say that it opens up customization options but all it really did was open up the ability to forego efficiency mods and slap even more power strength, range, or survival mods on your frame. You can hold up that sign that says, "but think of the niche applications," in response to that statement but the niche applications aren't strong enough, or varied enough, to justify using anything other than the big two and maybe Vazarin in an end game party that's accounting for your use of it.

That's everything in the game

Reality: People favor the most powerful weapons, most powerful warframe, and most powerful sentinels.

Focus is added to breathe new life into warframes.  What does it actually do?  People use the best focus that fits their best warframe.

Rivens are added to breathe new life into less used weapons.  What does it actually do?  People use the best rivens with the most powerful weapons they already used.

People used only carrier so DE adds vacuum to all sentinels.  Most people still stick with sentinels.

 

Whenever DE bring something out that will give a 30% boost to something players don't use, or a 10% boost to something players do use, people will stick to what they do use. 

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

After reading through the entire thread, the only thing I'm taking away is, "The cost of Arcane Energize is going to skyrocket". -_-

[dealingtrap]

I have been playing this game for a while, and the disappearing of energy overflow probably means i will stop playing it, mostly because it was what made the game fun for me (you may disagree and find other stuff fun).

• spamming powers in enjoyable (and i dont care about endurance runs)
• using energy pizza is boring as it forces you to remain static in a high mobility game
• arcane energize farming is a bore, plat price is too high, after the hema research i promised myself ii will quit this game the next time such farm requirements pop-up
• energy overflow brought wild build variations for every warframe, that is the core point that made me keep playing this game
• before completing second dream, i had reduced my gameplay to playing trinity 99% of the time, if i go back to that, i will probably stop playing in a month

You may disagree, you may find focus was a way to cheese the game, but you can choose to ignore it if you dislike it and let the other player enjoy using it, in the end it was not affecting your enjoyment of the game.

So here how i see things for now (and i will surely be wrong as we don't have sufficinet infor;ation to make such calls):

• i will enjoy PoE for a month, enjoying discovering new content
• i will then get slowly frustrated, finding myself always falling back to a single trin build if an equivalent to energy overflow is not naturally obtained during this month
• comparing the arcane energize farm to the hema research will brought the conclusion i should quit the game

(i am not saying you should behave the same way or agree with me, i am just describing what i will probably choose to do in these hypothetical situations).