Riven from Hell — as a message to DE

[Olga]

The Unholy Riven

Meet the highest-rolled Riven in the game — A Riven From Hell.

Its unholy nature manifests itself in a truly hellish manner — after hundreds of rolls — it's still ...meh.

This was done in addition to a bunch of normal rolls for the same weapon — 50-80 each, all being junk as well. Doesn't matter if you roll the same Riven to hell or spread it between different ones — it's still the same unholy lottery.

 

The Unholy Scratches

We love you, DE, but this 100% lottery aspect of the Riven system — gives us zero sense of progression.

Problem is not that you don't get the stats you want — problem is that you don't move a bit when you don't. After hundreds and hundreds of moves — you are standing on the same chess square, like Alice.

Some say — this is how things work, deal with it. 

But should we?

In the upcoming big update, there will be an Anvil that lets you craft custom weapons. Now imagine this — every part of the weapon has random stats. Totally random. Dev or player — you'd say — wait, wait, this is so incredibly stupid, let's not ...do that.

But why do we accept this in Rivens?

 

Sense A

Not asking for easier life here. 

Asking for a sense of progression here. For the stat locking — however expensive.

What we have now with the Rivens is the worst kind of an Eastern MMO style grind — where you mindlessly kill the same trash mob for months to get a single item. Even worse — because some of the less popular ones you cannot even buy here — like I can't right now.

 

The Unholy Illusion

Seen some players having an illusion that great Rivens exist, and are just expensive.

This is not always true. Most of the market is meh, and the less popular weapons choices are rather limited. I can't find the Dual Cleavers Riven I wanted (+Slide +Range -Finisher) despite hunting for it everywhere with a big bag of plat and a sign "Take My Money" for a month. I'm standing right here with thousands and thousands of plat in my hand — and there is no one to take it.

 

Paging Lotus

DE — do make us work hard, keep the rivens expensive in trading, but let us SEE the goal, and slowly approach it with time and devotion. Not these mindless random slots again and again and again, ad nauseam...

DE — you are missing the money for the plat sales. Isn't this actually worth fixing?

A lot of veterans only do daily logins because they have nothing to do. Don't you think giving them high, but achievable goals would help with this? Players, especially veterans, like perfecting things (naturally) — but only when they can actually see the progress...

The Kuva missions are too easy and boring for veterans, and then there is this mindless lottery even on top of that... Do you really think this combination will hook them on playing?

The Buzz

I was just told that a popular streamer made the same point. If you are his viewer, say hi from the people in this thread.
Let's keep buzzing about this together, Tenno.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Olga

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Well... that's a lot of rolls... like... maybe you should stop already lol XD

What sort of perfect stats do you expect anyway? Maybe they don't even exist?

Most of us stop rolling when the stats are good enough. I can't believe you didn't get a good roll after so many tries.

Perfection is a self-suggested myth.

[Ceryk]

While I certainly agree it can be frustrating, Rivens are meant as a way to rejuvenate less used weapons and older for veteran players who may miss those weapons but can't use them for high level content... They aren't meant to give any sense of progression.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Ceryk

[(PSN)CrimsonAxure]

+Crit chance for slide attacks on cleavers and not atterax or something, that's just depressing

[kgabor]

I wonder if this is indeed the riven with the highest number of rolls, the highest ones i seen in trade chat were about a little more than 100 rolls.

If DE don't want to change the complete randomness of rivens, maybe they should introduce riven rolling contests, the highest roll wins.

[torint_man]

Yeah, this is proof that riven rolls should have ways to make it less random with high numbers of rolls. Something like 50 rolls to force one stat then 150 rolls to force two stats, and so on. If I put in an obscene amount of time in, I should be guaranteed something great out of it, as opposed to just rolling the slot machine and not being any closer to the god roll than I was 100 rolls ago. I don't care if it impacts the riven market, as it's inflated, confusing, and toxic enough already. If you have to have 150 rolls to guarantee two stats, I doubt the 1000+ plat riven mods will decrease in value anyway. 

[(PSN)BabylonCandleUK]

Albert Einstein apparently said that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome. 

If that's true Rivens encourage insanity. Just stop rolling it already. 

[Shinmei]

There's too much pre defined RNG evolved in rivens stats, i got an Opticor riven which after almost 50 rolls i got the same stats from original roll two times in a row, which probably means all stats are pre defined for some weapons, i may be wrong but there some crazy things with rivens too "crazy" to be just a coincidence.

[TotallyLagging]

ew -status duration

 

you could probably sell it just for the 666 rerolls alone lol

[Hypernaut1]

Obsessing over perfect stats is a personal problem and has nothing to do with the system. 

I have plenty of rivens and usually get decent stats to replace another mod within 10 rolls for most of them. 

Ill do extra rolls to see if I get lucky with even better stats,  but don't obsess over it. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Volinus7]

Did you waste so much time into riven? If yes then it's working as intended lol.

DE has two main ways to let you pour your time in, bars mostly xp bars which are constant values and randomizers/pRNGs, simple as that. 

Who are you to waste time into a game without fun/progression in return?  Do you really play the game? or you just get conditioned by a skinner box? 

"Mindless, the worst, stupid, illusion" OP already described riven and its intention clearly by these terms lol.

[Voltage]

How much endo does it give if you dissolved it?  

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this is why even if you just get something like = damage or + damage vs 1 or 2 factions, if there's no downside or a negligible one, you should just keep it. we'd all love a Riven with nothing but damage increases, but just like in a game of Poker, you've gotta know when to fold and accept you're not getting that Royal Flush.

[Madway7]

4 hours ago, torint_man said:

Yeah, this is proof that riven rolls should have ways to make it less random with high numbers of rolls. Something like 50 rolls to force one stat then 150 rolls to force two stats, and so on. If I put in an obscene amount of time in, I should be guaranteed something great out of it, as opposed to just rolling the slot machine and not being any closer to the god roll than I was 100 rolls ago. I don't care if it impacts the riven market, as it's inflated, confusing, and toxic enough already. If you have to have 150 rolls to guarantee two stats, I doubt the 1000+ plat riven mods will decrease in value anyway. 

Depending on what you mean by "force 1 stat" it could be good or bad. What stat will it force?

Damage is something thats always good, but beyond that anything else depends on the weapon. (Also multishot, but thats not present in melee)

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Madway7

[SilentMobius]

8 hours ago, Olga said:

We love you, DE, but this 100% lottery aspect of the Riven system — gives us zero sense of progression.

^ This.

It's fine having a reward system with some randomness but the problem comes when:

• There is nothing stopping the mechanism failing to reward indefinitely
• When you can complete significant sections of content and receive no functional reward toward your stated goal.

There are many ways to potentially solve this, while keeping a basic "random reward" system that DE seems to like.

EG:

"research scanner" you can buy+equip a device that starts with 0% charge, when you do a thing that might get you the reward the device represents, if you don't get it then you receive some "charge" to the scanner proportional to the drop chance. If you get the drop, the scanner is consumed, if the scanner gets to 100% then it is exchanged for the item it represented.

All this does is cut off the "long tail" un unfair unluckiness while also providing tangible progress to a specific goal, where DE can still absolutly control the average-time-to-acquire.

For rivens That might be:

• Allow the locking of a stat for X Kuva
• Have "research scanners" for a specific riven statistic (as above), or just build the idea of (I'm looking for X eventually) into the riven roll mechanism

Again, giving you tangible progress and a reachable goal while retaining some randomness.

Randomness is a tool, not a dark power to be leveraged in all cases (as the Casino industry do)

[Troll_Logic]

9 hours ago, Olga said:

We love you, DE, but this 100% lottery aspect of the Riven system — gives us zero sense of progression.

That's why I don't roll rivens.  With a booster, players are looking at around 20 minutes per completely random roll.

Nope.

[TrickshotMcGee]

9 hours ago, Olga said:

(+Slide +Range -Finisher)

I think a big part of your problem is that you're not looking for a good riven. You're looking for very specific riven stats to be completely perfect for you. The likelihood of those stats all sitting on the same mod is pretty low.

There's a difference there, and a really big one. If you're looking for GOOD rivens, then you could have had crit chance, crit damage, normal damage, attack speed, and a couple other stats to make it more than enough for the weapon to be even stronger. Chances are you rolled away many good riven stats for stats you desired instead. 

9 hours ago, Olga said:

In the upcoming big update, there will be an Anvil that lets you craft custom weapons. Now imagine this — every part of the weapon has random stats. Totally random. Dev or player — you'd say — wait, wait, this is so incredibly stupid, let's not ...do that.

But why do we accept this in Rivens?

Well this is a false comparison. A weapon is something we need, something that actually matters for the game. Rivens are 100% unnecessary, we don't need them. If every riven in the game were removed, we would all be fine. Very little would actually change aside from people being salty as hell. 

However, if you randomized the stats of every weapon in the game for each player, that would create utter chaos. Is that difference not apparent to you? 

 

Needless to say, I don't care for the stat locking idea. Nice QoL? Sure, but it goes against the base idea of Rivens being random in the first place. I wouldn't be against stat weighting so certain stats are more common as you get more rolls invested, but we should not have any control over how they act. 

[Gravitus123]

Just got an akbronco riven from sortie today and i thought since the weapon was buffed recently and was pretty good id try and roll a good riven.Spent about 20k kuva rolling it and ended up with nothing as it stands the riven system is a complete rng gambling simulator and there is no way to do anything if you have bad luck.I dont care about the excuses how "rivens are optional" this system is broken and unfair it needs to be changed to give us atleast a little bit of control

[-UBB-Kibur]

Rolling can be really frustrating. You farm and farm, an then it's just puff, gone. And you are sitting there with some really funny and useless riven, with zero control over the process.

Maybe it was designed this way, to frustrate people, but if we had a little less RNG and some sense of a progress, like it was mentioned, more people would play.

I can see the benefits of having a good riven mod, but jut can't force myself to run these missions, especially the lower level Siphons. And also for some very unlucky reason it's always at some bad planets whenever I check: Ceres (very bugged kuva missions there) or like Eris (really don't like going there for kuva).