Plains of Idle-on

[Zandermanith222]

I'm excited to explore every last bit of the Plains!

I'm also quite hopeful of the Focus Rework, sounds like it'll be intertwining the systems introduced by the Second Dream and War Within! But really what I want most out of the Focus system, is a legitimate reason to want to switch Focus trees between missions, besides doing it to screw around with the other trees. I love Zenurik's Energy Overflow just as much as the next person. But it's an addictive drug and an unhealthy habit to rely on.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Zandermanith222

[LSG501]

8 hours ago, Arniox said:

Operators are going to be compelately changed, with new focus system and arcane and weapons. It's not going to be boring like the current system, it might even be awesome. All we know is that it's completely different to what we know 

Who's to say what we get isn't actually worse, yeah I know that's pretty hard considering what we have now but still they are reworking focus at the same time so....

10 hours ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

Think of it like this; remember how hitting Conculysts and Battalysts disabled their adaptive capabilities for a time? You're basically hitting regions on the [Teralyst/Eidolon?] that are most exposed to Void energy so you can turn off its 'Iron' skin.

The process of being 'forced' to use another system is the annoying bit for me and many others, just look at the threads when we're 'forced' to use the current operator.  Not to mention players seem to hate the invulnerability phases of current bosses....and you could argue that making it so we can't damage with our warframes is the ultimate invulnerability phase.  If it was in addition to it's not too bad but the first bit below basically says why many of us dislike the operator.

10 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

Why though?

Honestly, I didn't and still don't see a need for the operator, the whole implementation feels clunky... they're too slow to 'eject' (and should really have it's own key rather than the dual function binding it has now), too slow to move around, too slow to regen energy etc etc.  That lack of 'speed' of switching actually makes it hard to use them in any tactical way because you have a literal pause while swapping over.  IMO operators were put in for future 'plat sales' of outfits (and I've said this since day one) not to benefit the game, they didn't really feel right even during the quest, almost like it was a 'rushed' addition. 

Now it may get better with the operator/focus rework but unless it changes how clunky it is now I very much doubt it will.  Then there's fact the rework seems to be taking away arguably one of the most useful aspects of the focus system in it's energy regen.   Now I'm all for reducing the 'always on' aspect of abilities but at the same time this isn't going to hurt the frames that are the main source of player annoyance (ie ember wof etc) because they're already built for high efficiency in most cases, not to mention zenurik energy restore doesn't work with their abilities active.  This is going to hurt the frames that rely on synergy with their abilities and need to use multiple abilities at the same time to do their best damage etc. 

It also seems that all they're going to be doing (admittedly limited info but then I got the feeling the dev's weren't 100% on where they were going either) for weaponry on the operator is a 'booster' for their laser beam..... which isn't really a lot of variety if it is.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by LSG501

[(PSN)Silverback73]

11 hours ago, Spartan336 said:

We're hyped about fighting giant robots with our new gear in a vast opens space. When is it coming? 

But really. The hype is real. What are you guy's most looking forward to? DE gave us plenty to see in the Dev stream a few days back, and that got me shoveling coal for the hype train. I'm looking forward to the Focus system rework so I can start using it effectivly. And fishing. Lots of fishing. 

It can't come soon™ enough!

(What is this, the hundredth thread for PoE?)

Quit Com-PLAIN-ing.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Koldraxon-732]

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

[Attempted explanation as to why Operators in missions is unnecessary]

While I understand positions of people like you regarding the rather clunky functionality of the Operator, you have to look back at Parkour 1.0.

In that regard, I feel that Parkour 2.0's wall-based movement is inadequate, slow, and exposes you. You're better off bullet-jumping, then wall-grabbing, then bullet-jumping again.

Generally, there should be a mod that fits in the Exilus slot that allows the Warframe's powers and movement to have Void effects* that would cost a small amount of capacity. This mod could be put behind a section of The Sacrifice's questline or something that comes as a loot drop from any enemies introduced from that quest and, while to many may serve as a mere bandaid and a little buff, is technically what you're asking for.

*TL-DR idea for this mod:

Spoiler

Mod: [PH]Void Charged, [PH]The Sacrifice, or [PH]Tenno Within.
Capacity cost: 4 (cannot be ranked up).
Polarity: based on selected Focus School (Vazarin, Zenurik, Naramon, Madurai, and Unairu respectively).
Description: Enables Tenno powers at the cost of being unable to use Operator mode and Focus ability.
Cannot be used in Conclave.
Effect:
-Melee adds Void-knockback effect.
-Bullet-jumping causes Void Dash effects (except cloaking is disabled); bullet jumping into enemies restores a small amount of energy.
-Your weapons and powers bypass Rapid Adaptation (Sentient adaptation) if target is within [Power Range].
-Focus passives are applied automatically, if there are any.

This is the mod people who don't want to use Operators want, but there's always going to be one or two cases (such as in some Quests) where this mod will be disabled because of elements such as the Ravenous Golden Maw.

 

[Vlada91]

We are just not that lucky to have this amazing update in time. Its just we are not 😟😞🤔

[LSG501]

33 minutes ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

snip

To be fair I didn't experience parkour 1.0, like a lot of current players, but from what I've seen I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have liked coptering.  Now I'm not saying the current parkour couldn't do with some tweaks to 'smooth out' the mechanics and visuals (ie running instead of hopping up/along walls for example) it's not that bad and apart from when you get one hit or grappled while in the air bullet jumping (shouldn't happen imo) I've never really had an issue where it's felt inadequate.  I do however wish that the 'base speed' of a few frames were higher though (volt especially for example)

But considering that the current parkour is slow to you the operator must feel like it's been frozen considering how slow that feels lol

As to the mod, tbh I don't think we should get another band aid mod to fix an issue that is game wide, it's a bit like the scaling weapons/damage issues where the dev's spent time and effort creating rivens to (supposedly) fix said issues instead of spending that time on enemy scaling and balance passing all the weapons instead.... but then I suppose that wouldn't bring in plat sales like rivens do.....

[MirageKnight]

13 hours ago, Arniox said:

Operators are going to be compelately changed, with new focus system and arcane and weapons. It's not going to be boring like the current system, it might even be awesome. All we know is that it's completely different to what we know 

 

16 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

Why though?

I really like that they are adding more usefulness to our operators as they are supposed to be more powerful (more volatile) than the warframes because the warframes are used to control their energy. 

They also already have an interaction with the Sentients, in which they can remove their resistances making them more vulnerable. So it would make sense that they would make this bigger sentient vulnerable to attacks as well. 

You all can justify it anyway you like, it's still a system that's being shoved down our collective throats whether we want to use that system or not, which is something that a number of us do not appreciate. I don't care how buffed and improved Operators MIGHT be. That's not the point. I seriously don't appreciate the fact that we'll have yet ANOTHER enemy that REQUIRES the use of Operators to kill. First we had Kuva Guardians and Kuva Siphons. Now we have a Big Boss that can spit death destruction in al directions, that has an Invulnerability phase (a mechanic the community in general actively HATES), and looks to be extremely tough as well...that can only be killed by something way squishier than a Warframe. 

Yeah, no thanks.

I'm here to play Warframe, a game about customized, humanoid murder constructs and their customizable weapons of destruction, not Operator, a game about  space teens with space magic and weird clothing. Warframes were developed by the Orokin to outright fight the Sentients - so why are Warframes and their weapons and abilities suddenly useless against one particular type of Sentient? This is just arbitrary and forced.

DE, if you really want us to use Operators...just make them interesting and appealing and optional. People don't like having things needlessly forced on them. It's arguably anti-fun and merely serves to generate animosity and resentment towards said thing.

 

16 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Tbh I'm less hyped now they've implied that we'll need to fight the boss with the operators.....

If Operators were an OPTION in terms of fighting said boss, I'd be fine with this.

 

With all that said...Despite my beef with the design of the Eidelon boss, Operators being forced on us, and a needlessly complicated means of extracting gems from rocks, I'm actually looking forward to this update.

Customized melee weapons? Yes please.

Large, open, explorable, scenic environment that encourages the use of sniper weapons? Shut up and take my plat.

Improvements to Operators? I'm actually ok with that, but please let us equip them with ranged weapons that regular human could use. I really wouldn't mind running around as an Operator with a Burston or Braton Prime and Fang Prime. Oh and please...let Focus improve the Operator's strength, stamina, speed, and health, in addition to granting abilities.

Edited September 19, 2017 by MirageKnight
Spelling :P

[InDueTime-EN-]

I understand the clunkiness of the current use of Operators. Getting in and out of Warframes are slow and needs to be improved. 

A dedicated button for the Operators is unlikely because they still have to think about controller support. 

11 hours ago, LSG501 said:

The process of being 'forced' to use another system is the annoying bit for me and many others, just look at the threads when we're 'forced' to use the current operator. 

Honestly, I didn't and still don't see a need for the operator, the whole implementation feels clunky... they're too slow to 'eject' (and should really have it's own key rather than the dual function binding it has now), too slow to move around, too slow to regen energy etc etc.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I don't care how buffed and improved Operators MIGHT be. That's not the point. I seriously don't appreciate the fact that we'll have yet ANOTHER enemy that REQUIRES the use of Operators to kill. First we had Kuva Guardians and Kuva Siphons. Now we have a Big Boss that can spit death destruction in al directions,

If Operators were an OPTION in terms of fighting said boss, I'd be fine with this.

3

I have never thought of it that way. I guess this system is forced upon the players (at least in Kuva Syphons and in the coming Eidolons). It doesn't really bother me because I like the idea but I could understand why other players would rather stick to warframes. As there isn't an outcry loud enough against operators not to be compulsory in these situations, It would be better if you hope for a smoother experience and, if you feel really strongly about it, gather up other Tennos to voice out your issue. This may eventually be heard and if an acceptable solution is found/suggested, you might even get the change that you want. Another issue that may arise with this is the idea that you might have to switch between Tenno, Warframe, AND Archwing mode when fighting an Eidolon. 

I guess this is why they haven't made Archwing an essential part of warframe. Many people like Archwing, but a large part of the player base have issues with the current state of it. 

 

[MirageKnight]

4 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

 Another issue that may arise with this is the idea that you might have to switch between Tenno, Warframe, AND Archwing mode when fighting an Eidolon. 

I actually don't mind the idea of using Archwing mode to gain a tactical advantage, at least in terms of mobility and ability to quickly reposition, over an enemy like that. I wouldn't even mind if you could use your Operator as an option to weaken an Eidelon with your Void Beam. To make Operators mandatory for taking them out though? Ugh.

On the topic of the Eidelon itself, I'd rather it function much like regular Sentients, in that it can "adapt" and gain heavy resistance to damage types, with the Operator's Void Beam being able to "reset" that resistance to zero. This would make the Eidelon completely consistent with how other Sentients work and encourage Operator use in a less forced and contrived manner.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

I understand the clunkiness of the current use of Operators. Getting in and out of Warframes are slow and needs to be improved. 

A dedicated button for the Operators is unlikely because they still have to think about controller support. 

If I'm completely honest I don't think the dev's even consider controllers when they come up with a 'new idea' which requires extra keys etc.... from what I've seen it seems like controllers could really do with some simplification because it seems that there are a LOT of multi button combo's needed for stuff to function. 

1 hour ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

 As there isn't an outcry loud enough against operators not to be compulsory in these situations, It would be better if you hope for a smoother experience and, if you feel really strongly about it, gather up other Tennos to voice out your issue.

 

Lets be honest, the odds are the dev's likely won't do anything no matter what the players say unless there's some sort of player exodus or the players stop spending money on plat.    There have been numerous things that people have been complaining about for ages which really need fixing or would make the game better (even something simple like returning to running if you have sprint lock active for example) and the dev's basically ignore it.  You could even argue the only reason we got reworks on the recent frames is due to their new releases for plat/prime access, hell I'd almost go as far as saying the dev's are not really taking much notice of us at all even though they keep saying they are.

1 hour ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

 Another issue that may arise with this is the idea that you might have to switch between Tenno, Warframe, AND Archwing mode when fighting an Eidolon.

If the boss is only damaged by the operator as implied (now I use imply because dev build wasn't finished) in the devstream then there won't be a use for archwing during the battle other than 'running away'.  When PoE was initially announced and shown at tennocon it came across as if the battle with the eidolon was going to be something you'd be doing with the warframe and/or archwings, the last devstream seems to imply it's operator only due to no damage by warframe weapons, which are the same weapons archwing is using.

[InDueTime-EN-]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

If the boss is only damaged by the operator as implied (now I use imply because dev build wasn't finished) in the devstream then there won't be a use for archwing during the battle other than 'running away'.  

2

Well, that's just boring. I mean, I don't mind the hassle of switching between those 3 modes. It makes the battle seem more fun. But there can be an issue with controllers as there is very little space in their buttons to add gear binding to quickly summon the archwing. If the archwings only need to be summoned ones in an are(aka you can go back to the place where you left it), this would make it easier for players to switch between the modes. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:02 PM, Koldraxon-732 said:

I anticipate the Plains to be smaller than expected, and will experiment with an array of Warframe powers to gauge their maximum effective range - such as Hydroid.

Why would they do that? They've already gone and made the whole thing; why would they only ship some of it? Powers work as they normally do, with Arch-abilities using their in-game UI stats.

[Spartan336]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Quit Com-PLAIN-ing.

 

*Budum tis*

[Illithar]

As someone who is, relatively, new to the game (Less than 300 hours played) and only recently finished 'The War Within' I do feel like the Focus system and the Operator are tacked on. I've barely touched anything to do with Focus, but I have discovered that I chose poorly with my school for it (Madurai). The lenses are not easy to get (I'm not going to be able to complete even a single Sortie anytime soon) and I don't feel like burning plat for one. They are a single cooldown ability with some bells-and-whistles passives that activate after you have used it. The whole things just feels out of place in the game. From the sounds of it, only two schools were really used anyway. The Operator at least feels interesting, I just wish there was some actual synergy between Operator, Warframe, and Focus. Any relation feels tenuous at best as far as game mechanics go. 

I'm interested to see what they do, but I am more interested in new Warframes or tweaks to them, or new subsystems and mechanics for them. The new custom weapon system could be neat, and a large new area to explore is nice. Not sure how I feel about having mining nodes. It might be weird of me to say, but I do hope that, going forward, DE keeps the current mission node setup in addition to having open-zone sections.

And yeah, not too fond of Riven mods, I have one, for the Karak. woo. And I probably wont see a new one for a long time (Again, the Sortie thing)

[GrimAtrament]

didn't they say it was coming this month?

[Spartan336]

1 minute ago, hazerddex said:

didn't they say it was coming this month?

Yep.

[NightBlitz]

4 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

didn't they say it was coming this month?

thats the plan anyways, so considering that they're in lockdown mode, id suspect it'll be next week or, with a few small delays, early october at the latest. that said, thats assuming that no game breaking issues are found and they don't suddenly decide to change something

[Arniox]

11 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

 

You all can justify it anyway you like, it's still a system that's being shoved down our collective throats whether we want to use that system or not, which is something that a number of us do not appreciate. I don't care how buffed and improved Operators MIGHT be. That's not the point. I seriously don't appreciate the fact that we'll have yet ANOTHER enemy that REQUIRES the use of Operators to kill. First we had Kuva Guardians and Kuva Siphons. Now we have a Big Boss that can spit death destruction in al directions, that has an Invulnerability phase (a mechanic the community in general actively HATES), and looks to be extremely tough as well...that can only be killed by something way squishier than a Warframe. 

Yeah, no thanks.

I'm here to play Warframe, a game about customized, humanoid murder constructs and their customizable weapons of destruction, not Operator, a game about  space teens with space magic and weird clothing. Warframes were developed by the Orokin to outright fight the Sentients - so why are Warframes and their weapons and abilities suddenly useless against one particular type of Sentient? This is just arbitrary and forced.

DE, if you really want us to use Operators...just make them interesting and appealing and optional. People don't like having things needlessly forced on them. It's arguably anti-fun and merely serves to generate animosity and resentment towards said thing.

 

If Operators were an OPTION in terms of fighting said boss, I'd be fine with this.

 

With all that said...Despite my beef with the design of the Eidelon boss, Operators being forced on us, and a needlessly complicated means of extracting gems from rocks, I'm actually looking forward to this update.

Customized melee weapons? Yes please.

Large, open, explorable, scenic environment that encourages the use of sniper weapons? Shut up and take my plat.

Improvements to Operators? I'm actually ok with that, but please let us equip them with ranged weapons that regular human could use. I really wouldn't mind running around as an Operator with a Burston or Braton Prime and Fang Prime. Oh and please...let Focus improve the Operator's strength, stamina, speed, and health, in addition to granting abilities.

Yeah, what I meant was, what if the new update and focus system actually makes the operators fun? 

Currently our system is boring squishy and annoying, we can't really imagine anything better or worse. But what if the focus change actually makes operators enjoyable, tanky, more damage and so on. I would really enjoy the focus changes if the changes make the operator close on power level to an actual warframe in terms of damage, survivability and especially, what's most important is options and creativity. If it's not varied enough, then operators will become a chore once more, if they make them more varied with heaps of customization and power and such, then they might be fun 

[Koldraxon-732]

8 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Why would they do that? They've already gone and made the whole thing; why would they only ship some of it? Powers work as they normally do, with Arch-abilities using their in-game UI stats.

I'm just trying not to hype myself beyond the 'looking forward to it whenever it comes out' level of hype so I don't get disappointed if DE ends up releasing it in October.

If they end up having a real delay like that.

[Vlada91]

Did you all think who is going to enter first in POE world. The first of all players... who have fasts internet? And I hope we are not gonna have the download problem with this update....

[MirageKnight]

11 hours ago, Arniox said:

Yeah, what I meant was, what if the new update and focus system actually makes the operators fun? 

Currently our system is boring squishy and annoying, we can't really imagine anything better or worse. But what if the focus change actually makes operators enjoyable, tanky, more damage and so on. I would really enjoy the focus changes if the changes make the operator close on power level to an actual warframe in terms of damage, survivability and especially, what's most important is options and creativity. If it's not varied enough, then operators will become a chore once more, if they make them more varied with heaps of customization and power and such, then they might be fun 

Don't get me wrong. I'm all in favor of Operators being improved so that their use is intuitive and fluid, that they bring interesting options to the table, and the level of customization is bumped up a notch or two. If DE can do that, good on them.

That said, even if Operators are made to be actually enjoyable to use, it's still a lousy idea to make their use mandatory with regard to killing certain enemies. Sure they'd be more enjoyable, but it doesn't change the fact that it's something being forced on players in a game that's primarily about choosing the preferred tool for the job at hand.

[BlackCoMerc]

23 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

 

You all can justify it anyway you like, it's still a system that's being shoved down our collective throats whether we want to use that system or not, which is something that a number of us do not appreciate. I don't care how buffed and improved Operators MIGHT be. That's not the point. I seriously don't appreciate the fact that we'll have yet ANOTHER enemy that REQUIRES the use of Operators to kill. First we had Kuva Guardians and Kuva Siphons. Now we have a Big Boss that can spit death destruction in al directions, that has an Invulnerability phase (a mechanic the community in general actively HATES), and looks to be extremely tough as well...that can only be killed by something way squishier than a Warframe. 

Yeah, no thanks.

I'm here to play Warframe, a game about customized, humanoid murder constructs and their customizable weapons of destruction, not Operator, a game about  space teens with space magic and weird clothing. Warframes were developed by the Orokin to outright fight the Sentients - so why are Warframes and their weapons and abilities suddenly useless against one particular type of Sentient? This is just arbitrary and forced.

DE, if you really want us to use Operators...just make them interesting and appealing and optional. People don't like having things needlessly forced on them. It's arguably anti-fun and merely serves to generate animosity and resentment towards said thing.

 

If Operators were an OPTION in terms of fighting said boss, I'd be fine with this.

 

With all that said...Despite my beef with the design of the Eidelon boss, Operators being forced on us, and a needlessly complicated means of extracting gems from rocks, I'm actually looking forward to this update.

Customized melee weapons? Yes please.

Large, open, explorable, scenic environment that encourages the use of sniper weapons? Shut up and take my plat.

Improvements to Operators? I'm actually ok with that, but please let us equip them with ranged weapons that regular human could use. I really wouldn't mind running around as an Operator with a Burston or Braton Prime and Fang Prime. Oh and please...let Focus improve the Operator's strength, stamina, speed, and health, in addition to granting abilities.

You aren't alone.

I returned after a break, did TWW quest...and my god do I despise the Operators.

Slow, clunky movement. Poor animation quality (which shocked me, as Warframe animators are top notch). Awful voice lines, terrible personalities.

Everything about them so far has ranged from mediocre to outright awful. You don't double down on something this bad, you walk it back and either scrap it, or start over from scratch.

It's like they learned nothing from all that wasted time on Archwing and forcing it on us.

[BlackCoMerc]

12 hours ago, Arniox said:

Yeah, what I meant was, what if the new update and focus system actually makes the operators fun? 

Currently our system is boring squishy and annoying, we can't really imagine anything better or worse. But what if the focus change actually makes operators enjoyable, tanky, more damage and so on. I would really enjoy the focus changes if the changes make the operator close on power level to an actual warframe in terms of damage, survivability and especially, what's most important is options and creativity. If it's not varied enough, then operators will become a chore once more, if they make them more varied with heaps of customization and power and such, then they might be fun 

We don't NEED tanky, damage dealing Operators. We already have those.

They're called Warframes.

Example number 162 why dev time would be better spent balancing, enhancing, adding to and improving the core focus of your game, as opposed to tacking on yet another system no one asked for.

[PrVonTuckIII]

14 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

You don't double down on something this bad, you walk it back and either scrap it, or start over from scratch.

It's called improvement. Maybe you've heard of it?

[Spartan336]

16 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

You aren't alone.

I returned after a break, did TWW quest...and my god do I despise the Operators.

Slow, clunky movement. Poor animation quality (which shocked me, as Warframe animators are top notch). Awful voice lines, terrible personalities.

Everything about them so far has ranged from mediocre to outright awful. You don't double down on something this bad, you walk it back and either scrap it, or start over from scratch.

It's like they learned nothing from all that wasted time on Archwing and forcing it on us.

They're never going to scrap the Operators. They're to important to the lore, which is all the more reason to improve upon them.