Rivens - Let's Talk Availability and Player Retention

[BlackCoMerc]

I love loot in games. My girl and I both do. Really. Reference our 500 hours (yes, each) of Borderlands 2. Our brief obsession with carpel tunnel inducing ARPG games. Our fixation with early portions of Warframe.

And let's face it: obtaining stuff IS Warframe. Grinding out Primes and Clan and Syndicate "stuff" is, if I may be allowed a small pun, the Prime Motivator for the game.

And that's fine. As far as it goes. But it really does only go so far. Daily Syndicate caps, limited Relics, poor RNG odds for the best Prime stuff and limited free time all combine to make relaxing evening of easily accessible, guaranteed fun of Netflix far more appealing than the uncertainty of Warframe RNG.

Then, along come Rivens. And.im thinking, Finally; they get it. Infinitely unique mods for all our gear. Loot fest! 

And then...they lock them behind Sorties. Once per day. Less than 25% odds. Spongy, unfun enemies and frustration inducing "conditions" galore...

Ok. Back to Netflix.

Riven mods need 4 things:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods. And it makes the Corrupted mods less unique, since a negative was solely the domain of mds that had been Corrupted.

Two: Put them in the star map, and the Void. Create Tiers of Riven mods, and allow each tier to drop on missions of appropriate level range. What are you worried about, someone finding them all and having nothing left to grind for? One, thats already happened for the large group of us who believe soul deep that Sorties are a waste of both our own and the devs time. Two - SAY IT WITH ME - Rivens are INFINITELY VARIED mods. No one can find them all. Ever.

Three: lose the ridiculous reveal condition. Or even do away with veiling entirely. Let's face it, this is a time sink, likely born of the one a day nature of Rivens. Something to extend the time it takes you to truly "get" the mod. Once people can find multiple Rivens per day, Unveiling won't be needed to keep them playing that much longer in day.

Four: Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps. Not everyone enjoys the Operator. Fewer still - and that's a small number indeed - enjoy Kuva Siphons. So let Kuva Flow. Let it drop on the fortress in small amounts.

Why do this?

I don't k ow about you, but...if I knew the star map and the Void offered a literally infinite number of mods, that in turn offered a literally infinite number of play style and loadout tweaks, I would play this game EVERY DAY. And have fun doing it, as rewards would be something I could count on, fully and in their ready to use entirety, as opposed to maybe and one piece per night.

And because I was enjoying Riven Hunting and playing the game in pursuit of guaranteed rewards, maybe ranking with my Syndicate while grabbing a Mid tier Riven or two, when that next Cosmetic pack released, I'd be more likely to support the game.

But right now? I'm more likely to turn on a show than Warframe. Because I KNOW I will enjoy the show. Whereas, if I log into Warframe and get nothing but Paris Prime Parts all night, I genuinely feel like my time was wasted, and that's a feeling I'm really, honestly growing tired of.

Your game is predicated on grinding for rewards. You've got the PERFECT system in place, so give us the rewards to grind for.

Typed on Mobile.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[Emulad0or]

7 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods.

Speak for yourself please. Not only negatives up the positives value if it's a harmless negative, it is actually a good thing is some cases (e.g.: -zoom)

9 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Two: Put them in the star map, and the Void.

I wouldnt mind other ways to get them, but making them so common like this... we already have so many riven on the market, it seems kinda pointless. Maybe instead make something like transmutate with rivens we already own to create a random new one? Maybe a trader so we can trade an unwanted riven + some kuva for a random riven? 

10 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Three: lose the ridiculous reveal condition.

No sure why they did this, maybe to avoid all 4 players in a squad to the the exact same mod as a reward? Not sure, but if it's not the case, sure, remove th reveal condition.

12 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Four: Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps

Yes, please. Kuva missions are boring, and Kuva fortress is pointless since it doesn't drop kuva.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Speak for yourself please. Not only negatives up the positives value if it's a harmless negative, it is actually a good thing is some cases (e.g.: -zoom)

I wouldnt mind other ways to get them, but making them so common like this... we already have so many riven on the market, it seems kinda pointless. Maybe instead make something like transmutate with rivens we already own to create a random new one? Maybe a trader so we can trade an unwanted riven + some kuva for a random riven? 

No sure why they did this, maybe to avoid all 4 players in a squad to the the exact same mod as a reward? Not sure, but if it's not the case, sure, remove th reveal condition.

Yes, please. Kuva missions are boring, and Kuva fortress is pointless since it doesn't drop kuva.

Fair points.

Maybe reevaluate negative effects, but leave some. I can see how some would be nice myself.

As for commonality: that's the point. Sure, we could have Rarity tiers of Rivens. Maybe Rivens with 4 or more effects would be Rare drops.

But making Rivens as a whole much more common is the point. If I know the only thing I am likely to get by playing of a night is in more relic, or a piece of some Prime frame I really don't care about, I'm at least as likely to just...do something else instead. Probably more than likely.

But if Im grabbing a new, ready to use mod every mission or two - mods which genuinely offer something interesting - I'm going to pick up and play much more often.

Think about Borderlands again. You didn't USE the bulk of guns you found. But you could have. Immediately. And there was ALWAYS a chance to get something Actually useful from any mission.

Contrast that with Warframe. Where the best most vets can hope for in a night - the very BEST CASE - is that we MIGHT get a PIECE of something that will maybe be useful one day down the road.

Not as motivating, is it?

Rivens can fix this. All we need is to make them available. That's it.

[KirukaChan]

I would like some way other than Sorties to get Rivens, but putting them in the Star Map might be going too far in the other direction. A weekly mission for a guaranteed Riven a la Maroo/Darvo would be good, or even putting them in Syndicates for around 100,000 standing so people have something besides just Relics to grind Syndicates for. Syndicates are something that DE did right, so I really wish they would get more love.

Absolutely agree about the Kuva. When I saw you say, "Not everyone enjoys the Operator," my first thought was, "Wait, is there anyone who enjoys the Operator in their current incarnation?". I'm hoping PoE's Warrior thing changes my opinion on that, but either way, the Kuva Fortress is an excellent tileset in terms of both being engaging and having a lot of character, so it would be nice to have more reason to go there.

The unveil conditions are indeed silly. Rivens should stay veiled by default, and still be able to be traded as such, but unveiling should just involve clicking on a button. The challenges are either stupidly easy or ridiculously annoying.

Negative effects, I'm sort of on the fence about. Things like negative damage or negative multishot really shouldn't exist, but most other negatives can be harmless or even beneficial depending on the weapon, and as Emulad0or said, they make positive stats stronger.

[xXRampantXx]

I agree with most of your points, but not all.

32 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods. And it makes the Corrupted mods less unique, since a negative was solely the domain of mds that had been Corrupted.

I'm not sure what I think about this.  On the one hand, I understand why Rivens have a chance of getting negative effects.  On the other hand, the point of rivens is to make low tier weapons viable, and getting negative effects causes problems with this.

32 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Two: Put them in the star map, and the Void. Create Tiers of Riven mods, and allow each tier to drop on missions of appropriate level range. What are you worried about, someone finding them all and having nothing left to grind for? One, thats already happened for the large group of us who believe soul deep that Sorties are a waste of both our own and the devs time. Two - SAY IT WITH ME - Rivens are INFINITELY VARIED mods. No one can find them all. Ever

I don't think this is a good idea.  I think DE should keep the rivens to one a day, but make them their own mission (similar to Maroo or Clem missions) instead of sortie rewards.  This still limits us to one per day, but also guarantees us the ability to get at least one per day.

32 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Three: lose the ridiculous reveal condition. Or even do away with veiling entirely. Let's face it, this is a time sink, likely born of the one a day nature of Rivens. Something to extend the time it takes you to truly "get" the mod. Once people can find multiple Rivens per day, Unveiling won't be needed to keep them playing that much longer in day.

I see no reason to remove veiling altogether.  some of the challenges might need looking at, but personally I like some of them.  Having to do them has required some creative thinking on my part and has introduced me to play-styles I never would have though of before.

32 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Four: Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps. Not everyone enjoys the Operator. Fewer still - and that's a small number indeed - enjoy Kuva Siphons. So let Kuva Flow. Let it drop on the fortress in small amounts.

YES, PLEASE.  This is the only one of your points I 100% agree with.  While I personally really like the Operator, Kuva Siphons are annoying.  Kuva should drop as a resource on the Kuva Fortress.  I think it should also drop as rotation A spy rewards, rotation B Survival and defense rewards and rotation B or C cache rewards.  Since The Kuva fortress doesn't currently have a sabotage mission, maybe one could be added where we attack some kind of "Kuva Refinery" and steal some.  It would also give a reason to play missions on the Kuva Fortress that doesn't currently exist.

EDIT: I've realized after reading over this that I might be coming across at a bit of a jerk here, That isn't my intention

Edited September 20, 2017 by xXRampantXx

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, KirukaChan said:

I would like some way other than Sorties to get Rivens, but putting them in the Star Map might be going too far in the other direction. A weekly mission for a guaranteed Riven a la Maroo/Darvo would be good, or even putting them in Syndicates for around 100,000 standing so people have something besides just Relics to grind Syndicates for. Syndicates are something that DE did right, so I really wish they would get more love.

Absolutely agree about the Kuva. When I saw you say, "Not everyone enjoys the Operator," my first thought was, "Wait, is there anyone who enjoys the Operator in their current incarnation?". I'm hoping PoE's Warrior thing changes my opinion on that, but either way, the Kuva Fortress is an excellent tileset in terms of both being engaging and having a lot of character, so it would be nice to have more reason to go there.

The unveil conditions are indeed silly. Rivens should stay veiled by default, and still be able to be traded as such, but unveiling should just involve clicking on a button. The challenges are either stupidly easy or ridiculously annoying.

Negative effects, I'm sort of on the fence about. Things like negative damage or negative multishot really shouldn't exist, but most other negatives can be harmless or even beneficial depending on the weapon, and as Emulad0or said, they make positive stats stronger.

Thanks for chiming in. I elaborated a bit on my reasoning for making Rivens more common rewards. That's about motivating players to play.

But yeah...Kuva Siphons are...not my favorite. But I live the fortress tile set. Would like to see meaningful rewards there.

As for Unveiling... absolutely agree. The special conditions need to go.

[tarfeef101]

1. Yes, negatives can seem annoying. But they add an additional level of thought and uniqueness to your riven. Some negatives are good (like -zoom on snipers allowing higher zoom levels with normal gameplay), some are pointless like -flight speed on hitscan weapons, and that allows your other stats to be higher. 
2. I don't bother with sorties too, so I get not wanting to do em to get rivens. But they're common enough already, IMO. 
3. I don't really mind the reveal. It's annoying, but never so bad as to make it a barrier. I'm neutral on this, as it doesn't really impact me.
4. I'd certainly like kuva to be obtainable in other ways. I won't spew the opinions I've already posted here again though.

[BlackCoMerc]

2 minutes ago, xXRampantXx said:

I agree with most of your points, but not all.

I'm not sure what I think about this.  On the one hand, I understand why Rivens have a chance of getting negative effects.  On the other hand, the point of rivens is to make low tier weapons viable, and getting negative effects causes problems with this.

I don't think this is a good idea.  I think DE should keep the rivens to one a day, but make them their own mission (similar to Maroo or Clem missions) instead of sortie rewards.  This still limits us to one per day, but also guarantees us the ability to get at least one per day.

I see no reason to remove veiling altogether.  some of the challenges might need looking at, but personally I like some of them.  Having to do them has required some creative thinking on my part and has introduced me to play-styles I never would have though of before.

YES, PLEASE.  This is the only one of your points I 100% agree with.  While I personally really like the Operator, Kuva Siphons are annoying.  Kuva should drop as a resource on the Kuva Fortress.  I think it should also drop as rotation A spy rewards, rotation B Survival and defense rewards and rotation B or C cache rewards.  Since The Kuva fortress doesn't currently have a sabotage mission, maybe one could be added where we attack some kind of "Kuva Refinery" and steal some.  It would also give a reason to play missions on the Kuva Fortress that doesn't currently exist.

You make good points, but the dedicated Riven Missions idea is a burnout inducer. You risk players logging in, doing just that and trade chat, and logging off.

Rivens as drops on the star map alleviates this. It gets Warframe back to "just go play, and the rewards will come" foundation that attracted me personally to the game.

I really don't think there's a negative to infinitely variable mods being common drops (with some mods among the group as Uncommon and Rate, too). After all, no one will ever get all of them, and not being forced into one Missions, daily limits, etc, you are not risking burning players out. I really think common Riven drops would see player numbers rise, especially on the Non Relic star chart maps.

[xXRampantXx]

7 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

You make good points, but the dedicated Riven Missions idea is a burnout inducer. You risk players logging in, doing just that and trade chat, and logging off.

Rivens as drops on the star map alleviates this. It gets Warframe back to "just go play, and the rewards will come" foundation that attracted me personally to the game.

I really don't think there's a negative to infinitely variable mods being common drops (with some mods among the group as Uncommon and Rate, too). After all, no one will ever get all of them, and not being forced into one Missions, daily limits, etc, you are not risking burning players out. I really think common Riven drops would see player numbers rise, especially on the Non Relic star chart maps.

See the thing is, I'm more likely to get on for a daily mission that guarantees me an item than to play random missions in the hopes of getting an item.  it's similar to how I hate that Ivara parts were implemented as spy rewards, or that Harrow and Nidus parts drop as rewards from other mission types as opposed to most other 'frames that drop as exclusive rewards for specific missions.  I guess it's really just a difference in how we prefer to play.

Edited September 20, 2017 by xXRampantXx

[BlackCoMerc]

7 minutes ago, xXRampantXx said:

See the thing is, I'm more likely to get on for a daily mission that guarantees me an item than to play random missions in the hopes of getting an item.  it's similar to how I hate that Ivara parts were implemented as spy rewards, or that Harrow and Nidus parts drop as rewards from other mission types as opposed to most other 'frames that drop as exclusive rewards for specific missions.  I guess it's really just a difference in how we prefer to play.

Fortunately, there's a fix:

Do both.

Have one daily for a Riven. Maybe even guarantee that one is a Rare (whatever the conditions for Rare Rivens become). 

Then, you also add them as loot on regular missions. Quality of the Rivens is of course based on mission tier or level.

Basically, 1 Guaranteed daily Rare Riven. Then, Rivens as normal star map loot. Ideally, players average 1-2 common Rivens per mission (minding that these are Common mods, not mods with 5 amazing buffs) and Uncommon and Rare Rivens drop less frequently.

[13QZXXTTX]

@BlackCoMerc

You sound like one of those "Salty Tennos" (but not saltier than me HA!).

You have NO IDEA how RNG the Riven is, well maybe you do, HA HA. 

Riven Ranks? You know that will "consume WAY more time", and infuriate MANY TENNOS.

 

OK, I will try to be serious.

First of all, if you have not pass the 1,000 Hour (In-game) Mark, then you really have not "been there" (grind festive). YES INDEED, WarFrame is Free 2 GRIND (Pay Fashion (most). 

I got my gripes for Riven, (more since Melee Riven). You would not believe how the Riven Reward from Sortie "seem to become lesser", but am able to say it at least more bare able nowadays (not getting Riven in +2Weeks RIP).   On the bright side, DE increase Riven Capacity to 90 from 60 Cap.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: Take it SLOW, DO NO Rush. What you are "used to play" are Mobiles/Social/Consoles Games that say don't ever need to pass over 1,000 Hours Mark.

 

 

[FAZZWARFRAME]

With rivens being capped at 60 the pacing of their acquisition is fine (pacing in terms of a combination of time-gate, effort-gate, RNG-gate).  By making it more easily available people will start maxing their cap in a few weeks.

Agree with the kuva suggestion though, there should be more ways to get them.

[BlackCoMerc]

12 minutes ago, FAZZWARFRAME said:

With rivens being capped at 60 the pacing of their acquisition is fine (pacing in terms of a combination of time-gate, effort-gate, RNG-gate).  By making it more easily available people will start maxing their cap in a few weeks.

Agree with the kuva suggestion though, there should be more ways to get them.

Except for a lot of us, there is no acquiring Rivens.

I'm not going to run godawful Sorties for a 25% chance of a 10% chance of a Riven type. No thanks.

At the same time, there are lots of players for whom most missions yield no rewards. We are using our time and gaining nothing useful from it at all.

This fixes both of those issues.

We break Rivens into tiers. Weaker tiers drop in lower level missions. Higher tiers drop on higher level missions. Just like normal mods now. Exactly like, in fact.

By allowing Rivens from normal missions, you allow everyone to gain immediately useful loot on almost any mission. This offers incentive to run missions.

Because half an hour scouring maps for Syndicate marks to store up for something useful next week...is a good way to get me doing something else instead.

[DrBorris]

To me the biggest problem with Rivens is that there is no way to lock certain stats. RNG is okay, but only to an extent. 

 

For example, let's say it costs 2k Kuva per roll to lock a single stat. So if you roll the Riven you have to pay whatever normal Kuva cost pus another 2k for that one stat. If you want to have two stats locked, that is 4k extra Kuva per roll. And note that when I mean "lock", I only mean lock the type of stat. So if you have "+150% Damage" the only thing it will keep is the "+Damage", the exact value can change to be in line with whatever other stats were rolled.

 

And an endless form of Kuva farming would be awesome. 

[Strrog]

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I love loot in games. My girl and I both do. Really. Reference our 500 hours (yes, each) of Borderlands 2. Our brief obsession with carpel tunnel inducing ARPG games. Our fixation with early portions of Warframe.

And let's face it: obtaining stuff IS Warframe. Grinding out Primes and Clan and Syndicate "stuff" is, if I may be allowed a small pun, the Prime Motivator for the game.

And that's fine. As far as it goes. But it really does only go so far. Daily Syndicate caps, limited Relics, poor RNG odds for the best Prime stuff and limited free time all combine to make relaxing evening of easily accessible, guaranteed fun of Netflix far more appealing than the uncertainty of Warframe RNG.

Then, along come Rivens. And.im thinking, Finally; they get it. Infinitely unique mods for all our gear. Loot fest! 

And then...they lock them behind Sorties. Once per day. Less than 25% odds. Spongy, unfun enemies and frustration inducing "conditions" galore...

Ok. Back to Netflix.

Riven mods need 4 things:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods. And it makes the Corrupted mods less unique, since a negative was solely the domain of mds that had been Corrupted.

Two: Put them in the star map, and the Void. Create Tiers of Riven mods, and allow each tier to drop on missions of appropriate level range. What are you worried about, someone finding them all and having nothing left to grind for? One, thats already happened for the large group of us who believe soul deep that Sorties are a waste of both our own and the devs time. Two - SAY IT WITH ME - Rivens are INFINITELY VARIED mods. No one can find them all. Ever.

Three: lose the ridiculous reveal condition. Or even do away with veiling entirely. Let's face it, this is a time sink, likely born of the one a day nature of Rivens. Something to extend the time it takes you to truly "get" the mod. Once people can find multiple Rivens per day, Unveiling won't be needed to keep them playing that much longer in day.

Four: Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps. Not everyone enjoys the Operator. Fewer still - and that's a small number indeed - enjoy Kuva Siphons. So let Kuva Flow. Let it drop on the fortress in small amounts.

Why do this?

I don't k ow about you, but...if I knew the star map and the Void offered a literally infinite number of mods, that in turn offered a literally infinite number of play style and loadout tweaks, I would play this game EVERY DAY. And have fun doing it, as rewards would be something I could count on, fully and in their ready to use entirety, as opposed to maybe and one piece per night.

And because I was enjoying Riven Hunting and playing the game in pursuit of guaranteed rewards, maybe ranking with my Syndicate while grabbing a Mid tier Riven or two, when that next Cosmetic pack released, I'd be more likely to support the game.

But right now? I'm more likely to turn on a show than Warframe. Because I KNOW I will enjoy the show. Whereas, if I log into Warframe and get nothing but Paris Prime Parts all night, I genuinely feel like my time was wasted, and that's a feeling I'm really, honestly growing tired of.

Your game is predicated on grinding for rewards. You've got the PERFECT system in place, so give us the rewards to grind for.

Typed on Mobile.

 

 

agree on most points rivens is a frustration factor rather then an end game factor, and i am not even bringing up the absurd price range for those.

[Troll_Logic]

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods. And it makes the Corrupted mods less unique, since a negative was solely the domain of mds that had been Corrupted.

Actually, you're wrong about that for a couple reasons.  Many people would want great bonuses if there was a negative on the riven.  Keeping that in mind, many times a negative is actually a positive.  What if a player doesn't want zoom?  Or the negative is "crit chance" on a status weapon?  There are many other examples.

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Two: Put them in the star map, and the Void. Create Tiers of Riven mods, and allow each tier to drop on missions of appropriate level range.

Nah.  I'd like the percentage of a riven dropping increased though.

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Three: lose the ridiculous reveal condition. Or even do away with veiling entirely. Let's face it, this is a time sink

Gotta disagree with you on this again.  Sometimes it's a hassle, but it's a fun little part.

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Four: Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps

Completely unrelated, but yes.  Kuva should be available in more places.

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Not everyone enjoys the Operator.

No one enjoys that game killing mechanic.

[Voltage]

Negative stats boost the positives, so if you go for a certain negative, it is actually good. Also, the negative IPS stats are awesome (I have a gas/slash latron prime due to -99% puncture).

Unveiling a riven is super easy, and the people that think they are hard don’t know how to do them.

I think rivens are fine the way they are in acquisition, but the rerolling a riven needs to be changed.

[Almagnus1]

6 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods. And it makes the Corrupted mods less unique, since a negative was solely the domain of mds that had been Corrupted.

-Zoom on a sniper rifle allows me to zoom to maximum for the bonuses and play like I'm at a lower zoom level.

-Fire rate on something like a Grakata makes it a bit more playable, especially if the Riven can buff the other stats to compensate.

There's probably a few more, but that's two that come to mind.

[WNxMatthew]

On 9/20/2017 at 7:54 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

I love loot in games. My girl and I both do. Really. Reference our 500 hours (yes, each) of Borderlands 2. Our brief obsession with carpel tunnel inducing ARPG games. Our fixation with early portions of Warframe.

And let's face it: obtaining stuff IS Warframe. Grinding out Primes and Clan and Syndicate "stuff" is, if I may be allowed a small pun, the Prime Motivator for the game.

And that's fine. As far as it goes. But it really does only go so far. Daily Syndicate caps, limited Relics, poor RNG odds for the best Prime stuff and limited free time all combine to make relaxing evening of easily accessible, guaranteed fun of Netflix far more appealing than the uncertainty of Warframe RNG.

Then, along come Rivens. And.im thinking, Finally; they get it. Infinitely unique mods for all our gear. Loot fest! 

And then...they lock them behind Sorties. Once per day. Less than 25% odds. Spongy, unfun enemies and frustration inducing "conditions" galore...

Ok. Back to Netflix.

Riven mods need 4 things:

First, lose the negative effects. No one - and I literally mean NO ONE - Actually WANTS negative effects on weapon mods. And it makes the Corrupted mods less unique, since a negative was solely the domain of mds that had been Corrupted.

Two: Put them in the star map, and the Void. Create Tiers of Riven mods, and allow each tier to drop on missions of appropriate level range. What are you worried about, someone finding them all and having nothing left to grind for? One, thats already happened for the large group of us who believe soul deep that Sorties are a waste of both our own and the devs time. Two - SAY IT WITH ME - Rivens are INFINITELY VARIED mods. No one can find them all. Ever.

Three: lose the ridiculous reveal condition. Or even do away with veiling entirely. Let's face it, this is a time sink, likely born of the one a day nature of Rivens. Something to extend the time it takes you to truly "get" the mod. Once people can find multiple Rivens per day, Unveiling won't be needed to keep them playing that much longer in day.

Four: Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps. Not everyone enjoys the Operator. Fewer still - and that's a small number indeed - enjoy Kuva Siphons. So let Kuva Flow. Let it drop on the fortress in small amounts.

Why do this?

I don't k ow about you, but...if I knew the star map and the Void offered a literally infinite number of mods, that in turn offered a literally infinite number of play style and loadout tweaks, I would play this game EVERY DAY. And have fun doing it, as rewards would be something I could count on, fully and in their ready to use entirety, as opposed to maybe and one piece per night.

And because I was enjoying Riven Hunting and playing the game in pursuit of guaranteed rewards, maybe ranking with my Syndicate while grabbing a Mid tier Riven or two, when that next Cosmetic pack released, I'd be more likely to support the game.

But right now? I'm more likely to turn on a show than Warframe. Because I KNOW I will enjoy the show. Whereas, if I log into Warframe and get nothing but Paris Prime Parts all night, I genuinely feel like my time was wasted, and that's a feeling I'm really, honestly growing tired of.

Your game is predicated on grinding for rewards. You've got the PERFECT system in place, so give us the rewards to grind for.

Typed on Mobile.

 

 

I don't agree with any of this except for the Kuva missions. That is a great idea and sounds like fun. I have seen other Tenno suggest the same thing.

However, they will NEVER increase drop rates for Riven mods. Riven mods are database intensive and they are already having database issues. So, giving players more Riven mods will only make things worse. Also, the riven mod challenges are fun. I actually enjoy doing them since I have nothing to do right now until PoE.

[Darkuhn]

On ‎20‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 2:54 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Put them in the star map

Tie them to the Darksector Nodes, for each successful Mission you get a Riven for the Weapontype the Mission gives Bonus-Exp for.

On ‎20‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 3:33 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Rivens as drops on the star map alleviates this. It gets Warframe back to "just go play, and the rewards will come" foundation that attracted me personally to the game.

this is a good point :)

On ‎20‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 8:47 PM, --Q--Voltage said:

Unveiling a riven is super easy, and the people that think they are hard don’t know how to do them.

this sums it up, but the Wiki points out the easiest way to unveil each riven.

On ‎20‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 2:54 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Make Kuva drops also be available on the Kuva Fortress maps.

this really needs to happen :) and endless-missions too.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 9/22/2017 at 5:21 AM, Darkuhn said:

Tie them to the Darksector Nodes, for each successful Mission you get a Riven for the Weapontype the Mission gives Bonus-Exp for.

this is a good point :)

this sums it up, but the Wiki points out the easiest way to unveil each riven.

this really needs to happen :) and endless-missions too.

Thanks for chiming in.

I'd love to get Rivens, but a clan mate yesterday did the Sorties, including that awful, tedious Hek Assassination.

He got a credit booster.

He has more than 10 million credits.

No way am i running those sponge filled Sorties with jacked up versions of the same Enemies and annoying limitations...just to get credit boosters. That's ridiculous.

So yeah...seeing Rivens as loot throughout the game, with maybe some really rare ones as Sortie rewards, would be great.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Gonna have to agree to some extent.

1 - Rivens are a pain to get, especially now that there's so many of them. You do sorties daily and hardly ever get a riven, and when you do get one after a whole week or more of sorties, you do your task to reveal and it's usually a terrible riven for a weapon you hardly care about (keep in mind there's like 300 different rivens you can have and maybe 30 which are really sought after).

2 - Rivens are a pain to reroll. Kuva floods are limited to like one per hour, and they are the only half-decent source of kuva. They are also not any fun. The fact a player that is not running a resource booster gets only 600 and 1200 kuva for both kuva missions makes it extremely tedious to grind. Heck, even if you're running a resource booster AND a luck kavat to periodically do it's 2x resource boost, at best you'll be getting like 5000 ish kuva, which is nothing in a game where all rerolls after 9 rerolls cost 3500 Kuva.

3 - Rivens are a pain to slot into weapons. They have huge modding costs, often requiring the player to reforma their favorite guns 2-3 times just to fit these mods.

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I do think there's solutions for this -

1 - Make rivens avialable from other sources than sorties. Vets have been doing sorties for the last two years, we're sick of them at this point. Maybe give them as rewards from the Plains of Eidolon, or reward them as possible drops for staying very long in endless missions.

2 - For Kuva farming, add kuva caches to the Kuva fortress giving a decent amout for people who find them, buff the kuva drop quantities to 1200 and 2400 kuva by default (making it 2400 and 4800 with a booster and 4800 and 9600 with booster + kavat). Finally, make Kuva Syphons random events in the plains of Eidolon, maybe with slightly altered gameplay and perhaps an even bigger payoff).

3 - Well, this one is hard to fix, Maybe give other means to get formas bps than getting them from relics would help.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I too would like to see rivens outside of sorties.  Actually, rivens come in tiers: 2 buffs, 3 buffs, 3 really good buffs and a negative (which can be a positive or non-applicable.)  At least make the 2-buff tier rivens rather easy to get.  The system was meant to encourage us to use crap weapons, and I understand that DE sees some money making opportunity keeping their availability as it currently is, but with the way they're obtained and the way their stat bonuses are randomly selected we're more concerned with further buffing our strongest if we're going to have to fork out platinum for any single riven mod we might actually be interested in.  I'd like a riven for my Karak or Hind, but I ain't paying in the realm of $10-15 for one.  They're novelty weapons that'd be fun to use seriously, but I don't need to bring them up to scratch when I can just use a Tiberon or Braton Prime instead for free.

 

As it currently stands, it's like many systems in Warframe - good intention, bad execution.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Littleman88

[BlackCoMerc]

43 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

I too would like to see rivens outside of sorties.  Actually, rivens come in tiers: 2 buffs, 3 buffs, 3 really good buffs and a negative (which can be a positive or non-applicable.)  At least make the 2-buff tier rivens rather easy to get.  The system was meant to encourage us to use crap weapons, and I understand that DE sees some money making opportunity keeping their availability as it currently is, but with the way they're obtained and the way their stat bonuses are randomly selected we're more concerned with further buffing our strongest if we're going to have to fork out platinum for any single riven mod we might actually be interested in.  I'd like a riven for my Karak or Hind, but I ain't paying in the realm of $10-15 for one.  They're novelty weapons that'd be fun to use seriously, but I don't need to bring them up to scratch when I can just use a Tiberon or Braton Prime instead for free.

 

As it currently stands, it's like many systems in Warframe - good intention, bad execution.

Good points here.

I am - very firmly - in the camp of never, ever spending Plat on Rivens. I buy Plat to support the game, albeit rarely or with a 75% discount, but I won't - ever - use it for Rivens. 

Riven mods are precisely the procedurally generated, infinite loot system the star map - and the Plains of Eidolon - need. If Rivens dropped from enemies and containers, I'd run Missions constantly, because said missions would always offer something potentially useful.

But Sorties? Forget it. Zero interest in them or anything locked behind them. Conditions are annoying and nonsensical, enemies are jacked one shotting sponges and rewards are so diluted as to make them quite Literally a waste of time.

Not to say you can't set aside a pool of 3-4 buff Rivens for Sortie or end game only rewards. Go ahead. But the lesser Rivens should flow like water from Plains and Missions.

Imagine if drop chance boosters included improved chances for a Riven drop, DE...

 

[(XBOX)EntrTheLight]

I have to agree with most everything here.  This would make riven farming easier (or even doable) while not having xbox gold.  Sorties are sometimes a challenge for me... like when I have to assassinate mutalist alad v with eximus stronghold on eris.... I couldn't solo that for the life of me.. spent over 60 energy pads trying and still failed.  There should be other ways to obtain Riven mods.

 

However, I do kind of like the veiled challenges, although I think they could base the type of riven on the challenge you get.  Tougher the challenge, the higher chance of a good riven. (idk if that's how it works or not currently, I'm not thinking so).  Like a ranking system for rivens... meh, interesting idea to think about but ultimately I think they can keep the challenges.

 

Yes indeed.  Even though I hate the kuva fortress, I think that's the best place for kuva to drop.

 

I Think they should put them mostly in the void.  This would give the Void a new meaning and more life (atleast, I don't go to the void much anymore...nothing really to do except rare argon crystal farming)