Should the next update be more "plains" ?

[ZoneDymo]

So I made another topic where I asked the community what their biggest gripes with the game as is are.
Most players by far said they disliked DE implementing new stuff and then dropping it rather quickly to do something else new rather then improveing and perfecting the earlier mechanic right way.

With that in mind, should the next big update after the POE be the Umbra quest?
Would it not be better for them to stick with the current flow/knowledge and first make a couple more Plains like designs/updates.

The Dome of Mercury, Gassidy Gas City 1 on Saturn, The Frozen Fallen on Pluto, The Ancient Capital in the Void, An unlikely Haven in the Derelict, etc etc etc

Just so we have more places to go to and dont get too done with/sick of POE until there finally will be a new plains update after a heck of a lot of other unrelated updates.
You know that Umbra quest will take forever to make again.

Edited October 7, 2017 by ZoneDymo

[Myscho]

Please, no more Umbra delays

And yes, more plains are in development (Venus), but its not gonna be that quickly after PoE 

[motorfirebox]

3 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

The Dome of Mercury, Gassidy Gas City 1 on Saturn, The Frozen Fallen on Pluto, The ancient capital in the void, An unlikely Haven in the derelict, etc etc etc

Yes. This exactly.

[Beartornado]

11 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Please, no more Umbra delays

And yes, more plains are in development (Venus), but its not gonna be that quickly after PoE 

This.

Umbra first, then Venus and hopefully some cool new environments to come with those plains.

[WhiteCr0w]

I think they're going to gauge reception on PoE and go from there. Umbra will be coming regardless.

[ZoneDymo]

3 minutes ago, WhiteCr0w said:

I think they're going to gauge reception on PoE and go from there. Umbra will be coming regardless.

Well I get that, but, kinda hard to gauge something on a first run at it right?
Again that is kinda the problem everyone has with the game. 
Not first focus on getting the new thing more close to perfection, but instead just bringing it out, moving on and taking in the feedback much much later when people have their frustrations around it build up to a point of not being happy with DE.

This is not my pov but what I gathered from that earlier made topic.

Unless by "coming regardless" you mean that they can work on that and a next set of plains side by side so not that much time will be between these plains and the next.

Edited October 7, 2017 by ZoneDymo

[WhiteCr0w]

3 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

Unless by "coming regardless" you mean that they can work on that and a next set of plains side by side so not that much time will be between these plains and the next.

More or less that. They've shown that they can work on a new frame, a quest, and an entirely new system of play simultaneously. Umbra will be a new frame and a new quest. I'm not sure why anything has to be "this or that".

[Urlan]

I think Umbra should take less resources than another city and plains setting.

[AlphaPHENIX]

As much as I want an oepn world node on Europa. Umbra has been delayed for like what? 1? Almost 2 years?

Besides, Umbra is confiremed to come in the next cinamatic quest and some people would really like to hear more story.

[ZoneDymo]

Just now, WhiteCr0w said:

More or less that. They've shown that they can work on a new frame, a quest, and an entirely new system of play simultaneously. Umbra will be a new frame and a new quest. I'm not sure why anything has to be "this or that".

True, but big updates like the War Within really seemed to sucked up nearly all of the dev-team entirely.
Also we dont really know yet what Umbra is/will be :P
 

[TheGrimCorsair]

WOuldn't be surprised if Pluto, far down the line, ended up being a large Corpus factory complex. Warframe meets Blade Runner, or something loosely along those lines, aesthetically speaking.

[ZoneDymo]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

As much as I want an oepn world node on Europa. Umbra has been delayed for like what? 1? Almost 2 years?

Besides, Umbra is confiremed to come in the next cinamatic quest and some people would really like to hear more story.

Well its hard to say Umbra was delayed as it was originally never meant to be a thing in the first place.
It was just a way to get Excal Prime in the hands of the Chinese build founders.

Its only very recently that they actually committed to making it / doing something with the concept.

 

3 minutes ago, Urlan said:

I think Umbra should take less resources than another city and plains setting.

Idk about that, a dedicated quest like the War Withing required a ton of completely new things.
With the plains it originally did so as well but that is no behind DE, they have the knowledge now of how to make it so the next will require so much less work/time.
AI behavior, Performance, Scale all that is figured out now.

[ZoneDymo]

2 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

WOuldn't be surprised if Pluto, far down the line, ended up being a large Corpus factory complex. Warframe meets Blade Runner, or something loosely along those lines, aesthetically speaking.

yeah I was thinking the same but for Saturn, seeing as its a gas planet and the Corpus designed these floating buildings, one of those could be a big big city like... well... cloud city, with a bladerunner-ish feel.

Plute still is an icey wasteland with tons of crashed corpus ships so plenty of physical natural area to explore with interesting things in it.
Saturn however is nothing, just gas, so a dedicated traders city as a new plains update makes sense.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Just now, ZoneDymo said:

yeah I was thinking the same but for Saturn, seeing as its a gas planet and the Corpus designed these floating buildings, one of those could be a big big city like... well... cloud city, with a bladerunner-ish feel.

Plute still is an icey wasteland with tons of crashed corpus ships so plenty of physical natural area to explore with interesting things in it.
Saturn however is nothing, just gas, so a dedicated traders city as a new plains update makes sense.

True, but it's also home to the Ambulas manufacturing facility and the research center that built and designed it. Europa is the crashed Corpus ship graveyard.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were hopping from rock to Grineer ship to rock via archwing for Saturn's zone. Maybe even with dynamically generated ships/attacks, or some sort of other space battle feel to it. Hell, maybe an actual semi-dynamic battle between Corpus and Grineer. Also, I'm kinda hopping they use it as stepping stone to actually, finally, lean into development of archwing again.

[ZoneDymo]

10 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

True, but it's also home to the Ambulas manufacturing facility and the research center that built and designed it. Europa is the crashed Corpus ship graveyard.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were hopping from rock to Grineer ship to rock via archwing for Saturn's zone. Maybe even with dynamically generated ships/attacks, or some sort of other space battle feel to it. Hell, maybe an actual semi-dynamic battle between Corpus and Grineer. Also, I'm kinda hopping they use it as stepping stone to actually, finally, lean into development of archwing again.

oh right, maybe im confusing Europa for Pluto, my bad.
A big re-purposed industrial plain surrounded by icey rocks could be very cool as well yeah, all kinds of discarded robotics and military equipment scattered around.
Plenty of room for quests from local scavengers and sketchy merchants to retrieve parts and plenty of scary half working (system shock) robots (prototypes) to fight!

And yeah actual sorta war scenarios, hell make em into special alerts a bit like we have now with the Formorian ship and that corpus thing.
And a rework of Archwing is indeed sorely needed, but thats what I meant with the general dislikeing parts of the game, too much poorly implemented stuff that is then not fixed.
What I never got from Archwing is that in the very first trailer for it we see Excal running through a Corpus ship that is falling apart, it breaks away and Excal jumps into space to go into Archwing mode.
Yet that sort of Dynamic integrated Archwing is even to this day not really in the game yet at all.... Shark wing kinda has the mechanic but not the gameplay yet.

[PrVonTuckIII]

32 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

Its only very recently that they actually committed to making it / doing something with the concept.

Uh.... no? It's been over a year-and-a-half since they've stated that Umbra would come with its own system and quest to the Global build. We've waited a bit too long at this point, and it's already nearing completion, so I'd rather they get that out, and then get to working on the Venus landscape.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I think going forward we'll see more landscapes instead of tile sets, not that they can't do both mind you, the bulk of their man power is just going to go into one over the other.

I also think Earth's landscape will increase in size a little bit with another update.  2.25x2.25 miles of surface area (barring caves) is kind of small.  To put that into perspective, that's slightly over 5 square miles of surface area, where as 3x3 would have been 9 square miles, or around 45% more play area.  I like to think DE wants to gun for a little bigger.  PoE is just dipping their toes into the water.

[ZoneDymo]

3 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Uh.... no? It's been over a year-and-a-half since they've stated that Umbra would come with its own system and quest to the Global build. We've waited a bit too long at this point, and it's already nearing completion, so I'd rather they get that out, and then get to working on the Venus landscape.

got a link to that statement?

[NightBlitz]

honestly? after PoE drops and goes through the major hotfix stage, they should focus on Umbra and the Kingpin system

[ZoneDymo]

2 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

honestly? after PoE drops and goes through the major hotfix stage, they should focus on Umbra and the Kingpin system

which would go exactly against what most players seem to want.
Abandon a new system to make another new system, then back to the now old system way later to rework or fix it, then abandon it again for the next new thing.
Archwing, Pets, Sorties, Raids, Focus, Syndicates, Clans, 

Again this is not me speaking, this is what I gathered as the biggest complaint from the community.

[NightBlitz]

12 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

which would go exactly against what most players seem to want.
Abandon a new system to make another new system, then back to the now old system way later to rework or fix it, then abandon it again for the next new thing.
Archwing, Pets, Sorties, Raids, Focus, Syndicates, Clans, 

Again this is not me speaking, this is what I gathered as the biggest complaint from the community.

Im by no means saying abandon the plains, just that they shouldnt immediately focus on the next one.

and in case you didn't know, the Kingpin system is supposedly mostly done and just got put on the back burner so they can work on PoE. Its also very closely tied to clans

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, ZoneDymo said:

So I made another topic where I asked the community what their biggest gripes with the game as is are.
Most players by far said they disliked DE implementing new stuff and then dropping it rather quickly to do something else new rather then improveing and perfecting the earlier mechanic right way.

With that in mind, should the next big update after the POE be the Umbra quest?
Would it not be better for them to stick with the current flow/knowledge and first make a couple more Plains like designs/updates.

The Dome of Mercury, Gassidy Gas City 1 on Saturn, The Frozen Fallen on Pluto, The Ancient Capital in the Void, An unlikely Haven in the Derelict, etc etc etc

Just so we have more places to go to and dont get too done with/sick of POE until there finally will be a new plains update after a heck of a lot of other unrelated updates.
You know that Umbra quest will take forever to make again.

Well, they've delayed Umbra long enough. Whether they should release the quest, or just release Umbra as a frame and do the quest+umbra system later, idk.

However, with regard to your question, I think they should actually expand Plains of Eidolon, in terms of its gameplay options and AI, before they do another landscape. Plains of Eidolon is going to be rather lacking for an open world experience when it releases, particularly when it comes to AI interaction within the Plains. So I want them to expand on that before they move on to Venus. I want them to truly make Plains of Eidolon feel alive, and that includes having a couple different factions (besides Sentients) moving around in the Plains. I'd like to see Ostrons in the Plains, and maybe the Corpus, maybe some non-Grineer scavenger/raider faction in the Plains, so that you have an environment where you have interaction between Grineer, Ostrons, the Corpus, and maybe these proposed raiders. That would help improve the non-Eidolon aspects of the Plains by making it feel like it's a lived-in world: this is the defining feature of open worlds, and Warframe would benefit greatly from embracing this. Once DE does that, then I'd be ok with them moving on to other landscapes, because I think they need to bring this lived-in feel to all of their other landscapes. And no, Cetus does not give it that lived-in feeling because Cetus isn't actually a part of the Plains. It's not in the open world area.

@[DE]Rebecca, @[DE]Steve, I'm not sure what work has been done on The Sacrifice, but I really wish that it would not take place on Lua, but instead at Cetus, so that the quest can expand on the Plains of Eidolon. It could even deal with these living towers. It'd be great if the quest could incorporate the Plains so that development doesn't immediately shift away from it. Along those lines, consider putting other WIP features into the Landscape system, like the Kingpin system. It's based on the Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor, an open world game, so work Kingpin into your open world. Then, you're expanding the Landscape experience and aren't shifting away from it.

As for what the landscapes should be, I think the game would still benefit from seeing different cultures via the Colonies in the system. I'm not talking about a ship colony or some scavenger colony. That's not much culture at all. The Orokin age of expansion (during the Void era, I presume) occurred well before the Collapse. For such a system-wide colonizing effort to take place, I'd think there would be billions of people in the system. Even after the Collapse of the Orokin, I wouldn't expect every single population to be some poor, destitute people. Give us some actual culture through civilization. I'm not talking about sprawling metropolises everywhere, but perhaps a small city on Titan, a metropolis on Ganymede, earthen villages on Mars, old Corpus castles on Venus. I want to see civilization, not just small pockets of oppressed humanity that we feel sorry for. That's not unique. That isn't striking. That doesn't breath fresh air into our view of the Origin system. Go back to your old lore, where there were many colonies that had relations with one another. That sort of diverse culture is what makes franchises like Star Wars so good and so popular. If it means taking inspiration from there, then by all means, do it. Because that's the sort of culture that I'd like to see.

Edited October 7, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[ZoneDymo]

9 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

Im by no means saying abandon the plains, just that they shouldnt immediately focus on the next one.

and in case you didn't know, the Kingpin system is supposedly mostly done and just got put on the back burner so they can work on PoE. Its also very closely tied to clans

yes I know, but that is the point, that is what I'm describing, instead of perfecting and keeping focus on one system they jump to the next.
That is what the general public seems to dislike most about warframe.

I bet nearly everything is "mostly done" the Nef Anyo bossfight, the Phorid Rework, those Corpus crab enemies we are waiting for, the new upcoming Grineer enemies, there is soooo much already announced and shown.
If they release that they would have to focus on that, then the next and the plains system will once again abandoned to maybe seeing a next one this time next year which for many would probably be way too long and just more of the general approach DE does with updates which again, people seem to dislike most.

Abandoning is a strong (and perhaps wrong) word to use it, but its the best way to describe the feeling of how DE goes about doing new systems.
Solar Rails will probably get some version 2.0 but until then its "abandoned", focus was abandoned almost as soon as it was released and is not getting a complete rework.
For many that is the approach they dislike, instead of sticking with Focus until it works like something that can last they just move to the next.

Edited October 7, 2017 by ZoneDymo

[peterc3]

21 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

which would go exactly against what most players seem to want.
Abandon a new system to make another new system, then back to the now old system way later to rework or fix it, then abandon it again for the next new thing.
Archwing, Pets, Sorties, Raids, Focus, Syndicates, Clans, 

Again this is not me speaking, this is what I gathered as the biggest complaint from the community.

It's taken them months of all out work to get PoE out the door. Instead of working on other things, seeing what works and what doesn't, taking a break, working on things that have been on the back burner because of PoE... you want them to go right into another Landscape without even stopping for feedback on the current one?

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

I'd be all for them fleshing out PoE for a year or so at least after release. 

And to hell with edgy Excal.