Please Don't Make Me Fish

[xxswatelitexx]

I think they wanted Fish to be a good way for players to "farm platinum" - since fish are tradable - which means you could literally earn platinum just fishing and selling to other players. 

[Nirrel]

1 hour ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

While the Amp is behind the "fishing wall" as is Archwing on the Plains, I think something to remember is that those of us that have been here for months/years are playing "catch up" right now. If we had started today, we would have hit the Plains within a few hours of gameplay (I'm going with an average not a end-all). So we would have hit with fishing far before we unlocked Archwing, or TSD (a requirement to need an Amp). That being said, someone starting today, and fishing here-and-there just a little at a time would have tons of the needed resources by the time they actually needed them (again, an average as I'm sure a few would rush and not fish at all).

If we started today we would check out the plains and then move on to somewhere else because there is nothing useful there for new players. New players have to grind so much elsewhere to get frames and gear up that wont have the time and willingness to do content that gives no reward for their progression hence they wont have tons of fish when they get there. That is actually the biggest flaw with the plains. It's closed economy makes it totaly irrilevant for new players even if they can access it and it's very little rewarding for veterans with the grind involved on top of that.

[Variatas]

Fishing is killing PoE for me.

It's so damn frustrating, and is just killing my motivation to actually enjoy this update. I don't want to be too dramatic, but staring at the grind expected to actually achieve the new gear is actively depressing. I just don't understand why they took that feature and effectively made it mandatory.

If I'm alone in this, so be it, I guess, but I've sunk a lot of hours into this game and I didn't want to just drift away without tossing my viewpoint out there.

I don't want to drag on fishing, (or mining, which is less obtuse and frustrating, and so more tolerable, if not exactly welcome) if you enjoy it, that's great. I just really wish they'd structure the rewards so you could take EITHER combat OR gathering to get there, instead of demanding BOTH. The quantities involved feel massive, far beyond even my rather ample stocks of platinum to trade for.

I'm gonna wait it out and just enjoy running around the Plains shooting stuff for a little while, but it's really depressing to have an update that sounded SO good go so hard in the opposite direction.

(Devs, if you see this, I love ya guys, but for the love of Void please give us multiple paths to rewards. You've made exactly this thing an issue before, but never has so much been locked behind features so niche in their appeal.)

[White_Matter]

Yeah agreed.

The only other alternative is to make fishing more rewarding. Baits working better, more fish spawning, etc, so that even if it is a necessity, you can fish once or twice every week and get what you need.

 

I thnik the idea behind fishing/crafting in general is to make WF more like WOW, where people grind other stuff  in an open world instead of  just doing the same missions over and over again. In other words force people to invest more time in the game.

[BlackCoMerc]

14 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

I think they wanted Fish to be a good way for players to "farm platinum" - since fish are tradable - which means you could literally earn platinum just fishing and selling to other players. 

And that's the issue: play sales always win over game play. That mentality will kill this game.

[Rawbeard]

On 10/17/2017 at 5:10 PM, Foxbat40 said:

Please do not make me fish.

you don't have to, you can buy the parts for plat

[low1991]

45 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

And that's the issue: play sales always win over game play. That mentality will kill this game.

Agreed. Fish = plat sink for rush player. Casual player have no grounds in PoE...  

[BlackCoMerc]

43 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

you don't have to, you can buy the parts for plat

Or DE could, you know, make the core game play the key to progression.

It's troubling that DE lacks confidence in the ability of their core game play to retain players, so now they're forcing Archwing, Operator, even...Fishing.

Just get back to focusing on the reason we all came here. Why is that so hard?

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

20 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Very good points. Thanks for this.

I think DE needs to tread carefully. It's reaching a point where playing is Unrewarding so paying CAN be rewarding. That's a bad direction.

Ya. its why I steped away form games like the ones I mentioned. Hell Vindictus and Atlantia online bothered me partly becasue there was a point where upgrading could no longer be done without paying to increse the chance that the item would be upgraded. if it failed it was destoryed. If that kind of thing s ever implimented into this game, im done. Id say locked loot boxes too, but it dosnt fit into the business modle of this game at all. I hate CSGO skin craze that has taken a lot of games like Killing floor or payday and made them into player marekt palces. granted once things are saturated the skins are cheep as heck but... ya. mod drops right now work similer to a lot ox, if you think about it. as long as we are never paying to be able to get a drop, we should be ok.

When I compare desinty 2 to warframe, its mostly becasue of the timeing of its release and PoE. I also have to rember that its a 60-90 doller game, and one developed by a much larger company. Honestly its more comparable to something like borderlands or guild wars. it just gets a lot of what warframe was trying to do recently right, or has systme that seem more rewarding then warframes. it might repalce warframe as my most palyed game at some point due to it. it is however much more of an MMO then warframe, with both good and bad aspects of that. but its fun as hell for me at lest.

[RoofOnFire]

Why not just make repeatable quests from the Fisher Lady and the Mining Guy where the reward is fish or ores/gems from the respective person. Your current Ostron standing could determine the amount and rarity of the reward or unlock a second repeatable quest for the two people formerly mentioned to get higher rarity resource rewards. The only question is for me is how often could these quests be repeated.

[Dasmir]

17 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

I think they wanted Fish to be a good way for players to "farm platinum" - since fish are tradable - which means you could literally earn platinum just fishing and selling to other players. 

Shhhh less people doing, less inflation. remember how common primed part used to cost 10 plat and now only 3--5 ?

[MirageKnight]

After I'm done getting to Trusted Standing with the Ostrons and I've gilded my 3 Zaws, I'll be pretty much done with the Plains as I'll have everything I really need (Gara, new stances, Zaws, and some cosmetics. The grind needed to beef up my Operator isn't worth it and the set mods don't have much to offer to be worth my time hunting down and replacing some existing mods.

PoE / Cetus is a nice setting and all, but all in all it doesn't offer that much to players outside of the node in the long term - at least as far as I can see. Amp Gear is really only suitable for hunting Eidelons (and maybe other Sentients, but those are only on Lua), And Zaws, while nice looking and capable of dealing with up to level 30 enemies, tend to struggle with anything higher.

[Omnimorph]

I enjoy the mining and I enjoy fishing now and then, but the fishing materials are too closely tied to the main faction progression stuff.  It's obvious that not everyone enjoys fishing in videogames, and for something DE have said was a bit of a fun afterthought they explored, it sure is deeply tied in with the progression.

[Foxbat40]

5 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

you don't have to, you can buy the parts for plat

So you are saying this game contains no warframe content and was just a way to monetize existing customers. k thx. 

What can I do in POE that makes my warframe more powerful? What content or play modes are more fun beyond the first hour?

I killed the Terralist a dozen times. I get nothing of value that makes my warframe more powerful. I get parts for faction standing that gives me what?

I don't know a gun for a kid that I may use for 1 second at a time to regen energy?

I don't want to fish or mine. This is not maple story. I want to do backflip no scope head shots on ugly cloned soldiers without being blasted by 5 different drop ships at a time. 

I don't want to fish for an hour to get item #675, then throw item #675 into the water and use item # 431 to click on fish # 72 to get loot # 85 to make item #947 to craft along with items #563 and items #432 to make weapon component #731 that makes my kid frame shoot with 12% more crit chance. 

This expansion is a convoluted mess that has very little reward for the complexity and the time invested in it. Also the rewards and the actions needed for them are not part of the core gameplay loop. They are not as fun. They also do not require team work. Mining and fishing are solo endeavors they should be for cosmetics only. All character progression should be behind group content like the terralisk and bounties. Put the finished weapon components as rewards. We can't be expected to slog through a 5 step process for a reward. Our feeble monkey brains can't handle that level of complexity between action and reward. 

 

 

[Rawbeard]

37 minutes ago, Foxbat40 said:

What can I do in POE that makes my warframe more powerful?

nothing. don't tell me you haven't realized it yet? :/

[Soki01]

Fishing is fun though b

[xxswatelitexx]

4 hours ago, Dasmir said:

Shhhh less people doing, less inflation. remember how common primed part used to cost 10 plat and now only 3--5 ?

Inflation means rise in prices not drop. 

So to be accurate you would need to say

Less people doing it more inflation. 

[SordidDreams]

I'm utterly baffled by the fishing requirement. There's plenty of games that have a fishing minigame of some kind, but it's never anything more than an optional momentary diversion or perhaps a way to get a few joke items. Except in WF, in WF there's major progression milestones locked away behind it. WTF.

[MealeaYing]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:10 AM, Foxbat40 said:

Please do not make me fish.

I don't want to fish.

Please add enough fish crafting parts into the Bounty rewards as to give us an alternate means of advancement.

This is Warframe not Fishframe. 

Alternatively revise your crafting system entirely so that fishing is not needed at all. Relegate fishing to cosmetic components.

 

You actually have to fish? I dont fish, and no one's sent the game warden after me or anything.

Seriously, I had no idea it was mandatory.

Edited November 1, 2017 by MealeaYing
Left something out

[zWhiteKz]

You do know u can buy fish right?

[MirageKnight]

58 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

You do know u can buy fish right?

Yes, we know.

I'm sure DE approves of you and everyone buying fish with your hard earned / purchased / traded plat to eliminate the tedious grind that would be otherwise needed to craft amp parts, zaw components, and so on.

The more grindy they make things for players, the more players will be driven to buy / obtain plat and then spend it to circumvent that grind. Don't forget, the vast bulk of plat in circulation at present was paid for at some point with real money. Maybe not yours, but definitely someone else's.

Now the question one should really be asking is this...

With 1 Plat = 15 cents (assuming no discount), is a single virtual fish you're going to carve up into various virtual parts (all of which you might not necessarily use) really worth spending the equivalent of $1.50 on (assuming the fish costs 10 Plat)? Also note that you're going to need more than just one fish and some hard to find ones will be very pricey. Yes, that conversion of plat to real money (1 Plat = $0.15) is accurate.

Edited November 1, 2017 by MirageKnight

[Lisztomaniac]

24 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Yes, we know.

I'm sure DE approves of you and everyone buying fish with your hard earned / purchased / traded plat to eliminate the tedious grind that would be otherwise needed to craft amp parts, zaw components, and so on.

The more grindy they make things for players, the more players will be driven to buy / obtain plat and then spend it to circumvent that grind. Don't forget, the vast bulk of plat in circulation at present was paid for at some point with real money. Maybe not yours, but definitely someone else's.

Now the question one should really be asking is this...

With 1 Plat = 15 cents (assuming no discount), is a single virtual fish you're going to carve up into various virtual parts (all of which you might not necessarily use) really worth spending the equivalent of $1.50 on (assuming the fish costs 10 Plat)? Also note that you're going to need more than just one fish and some hard to find ones will be very pricey. Yes, that conversion of plat to real money (1 Plat = $0.15) is accurate.

damn man, it felt bad before, but reading this, makes you realize how grizzly it trully is, paying 1.50 for 10 virtual fish, its just distopian lol. (1.50 its a days worth of work in some countries lol)

Edited November 1, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[BlackCoMerc]

15 hours ago, Foxbat40 said:

So you are saying this game contains no warframe content and was just a way to monetize existing customers. k thx. 

What can I do in POE that makes my warframe more powerful? What content or play modes are more fun beyond the first hour?

I killed the Terralist a dozen times. I get nothing of value that makes my warframe more powerful. I get parts for faction standing that gives me what?

I don't know a gun for a kid that I may use for 1 second at a time to regen energy?

I don't want to fish or mine. This is not maple story. I want to do backflip no scope head shots on ugly cloned soldiers without being blasted by 5 different drop ships at a time. 

I don't want to fish for an hour to get item #675, then throw item #675 into the water and use item # 431 to click on fish # 72 to get loot # 85 to make item #947 to craft along with items #563 and items #432 to make weapon component #731 that makes my kid frame shoot with 12% more crit chance. 

This expansion is a convoluted mess that has very little reward for the complexity and the time invested in it. Also the rewards and the actions needed for them are not part of the core gameplay loop. They are not as fun. They also do not require team work. Mining and fishing are solo endeavors they should be for cosmetics only. All character progression should be behind group content like the terralisk and bounties. Put the finished weapon components as rewards. We can't be expected to slog through a 5 step process for a reward. Our feeble monkey brains can't handle that level of complexity between action and reward. 

 

 

You just about feeble monkey brains, but only partially.

Rewards from PoE are so convoluted, and Require so many hoops to jump through, that they don't even feel like rewards. Are fish rewards? No. They are a means to rewards... except, they aren't.

Fish to rep/parts

Rep/parts to a BP

BP needs more fish parts/rep and more BP...

And on it goes.

For rewards to be a hook, they have to FEEL like rewards. When rewards are ten steps away from the actions Required to obtain them, they fail this basic requirement.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

You do know u can buy fish right?

That's...not a solution, it's a problem. 

In order to entice players to spend on a game, PLAYING the game needs to be rewarding. If the response to literally every complaint regarding lack of rewards is "just buy them" (and it is) you don't have a game, you have a badly disguised online store with a barely useful interactive mode.

Oh, and I personally guarantee you that I am never, ever spending Plat on virtual fish DE chose to make rare just so they could shove their increasingly anti-player business model deeper into the game.

If you need money this badly, here's a suggestion: lower the grind, build a game people WANT to play, and open an optional Subscriber mode with no crafting times, no slot limits and maybe a free booster or two per month to fund it.

But continually pushing Plat sales, at the expense of game play...I watched this kind of over reliance on Skinner Box hooks kill Firefall. I get that your parent company THINKS this works over here...but it doesn't. Not on any worthwhile scale.

Edited November 1, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[Nyaa314]

On 10/17/2017 at 6:10 PM, Foxbat40 said:

This is Warframe not Fishframe.

Welcome to 2017 Fry! It's angleredgyspaceteen now!