There is currently NO REASON to use OPERATORS outside of plains and kuva.

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, -Icicles- said:

I feel like the Focus 2.0 and Combat Operator is added so we can finally fight the sentient when they finally have their own tileset!

Yet we can't use them now to reliably fight the existing Lua Sentients. I doubt that's what they were created for. No. They were just added to fight the Eidolons, just like operator 1.0 was to fight kuva guardians.

[Spikey844]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

All of this "more reasons to use them."

How bout...you make using them fun first? Give up parkour, durability, lethality...for Gimpy the Wonder Emo and his Big Bag of Awkward and Slow...

No thanks.

...who can also remove all those annoying damage resistances on Sentients and Shadow Stalker.

DE never said operators were meant to replace Warframes

[Mints]

Just wait until Sentient Deathsquads are a thing. Then you will get your wish, whether you like it or not.

[jjpdn]

What do you mean? Zenurik players are like addicted to their bubbles.

...think they need an intervention?

[Wolfdoggie]

There is, it's called "for fun."

1. Also; operators are great for spy traps as they don't trigger some of the alarms and give everyone access to stealth even while hacking terminals,
2. you can evacuate your Warframe before it dies and move away from harm in stealth,
3. you can revive allies while stealthed and immune to damage (which I do very often).
4. The damage on Amps is nice but needs to bypass armor some way otherwise certain enemies are immune, they'll probably improve it somehow eventually.
5. Quick mobile dashes when needed are always useful.
6. Focus skills ofc.
7. Operator dying doesn't effect your Warframe so you could use him for various reasons to deal with something safely, even if it's just knocking them down.

 

[ShogunGunshow]

If they make them strong enough to be a viable alternative play style, they get screamed at. There was a lot of whining and hand wringing ahead of PoE from people upset at being 'forced' to use operator mode. *rolls eyes*

[Dasmir]

53 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

What do you mean? Zenurik players are like addicted to their bubbles.

...think they need an intervention?

the only reason to get focus, to band-aid the energy system.

 

Also the new arcanes (that are behind the trump wall of farm) will add a lot of reason to play with the operator

Edited November 3, 2017 by Dasmir

[BlackCoMerc]

13 hours ago, Spikey844 said:

...who can also remove all those annoying damage resistances on Sentients and Shadow Stalker.

DE never said operators were meant to replace Warframes

Which would matter, if these were fun, interesting mechanics. But they aren't. Like the Teralysts shield, it's just more contrived reasons to use unfun operator mode instead of our Frames.

[BlackCoMerc]

12 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

There is, it's called "for fun."

1. Also; operators are great for spy traps as they don't trigger some of the alarms and give everyone access to stealth even while hacking terminals,
2. you can evacuate your Warframe before it dies and move away from harm in stealth,
3. you can revive allies while stealthed and immune to damage (which I do very often).
4. The damage on Amps is nice but needs to bypass armor some way otherwise certain enemies are immune, they'll probably improve it somehow eventually.
5. Quick mobile dashes when needed are always useful.
6. Focus skills ofc.
7. Operator dying doesn't effect your Warframe so you could use him for various reasons to deal with something safely, even if it's just knocking them down.

 

Ok. These are good points, actually. Didn't know operators can Revive others.

Have to try one in Stealth mode. Maybe a Spy mission. 

Fair points. Now Operators just need better movement and some speed.

[SilvaDreams]

12 hours ago, Dasmir said:

the only reason to get focus, to band-aid the energy system.

 

Also the new arcanes (that are behind the trump wall of farm) will add a lot of reason to play with the operator

You mean bandage your poor modding ability and choosing power over efficiency.

[Kaotyke]

50 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Ok. These are good points, actually. Didn't know operators can Revive others.

Have to try one in Stealth mode. Maybe a Spy mission. 

Fair points. Now Operators just need better movement and some speed.

About the speed... Naramon's Mind Step can give +30% Running speed to the Operator. havent seen anyone use side by side to compare.

In terms of damage, the T2 Prism, T2 Scaffold just destroy infested since they do USUALLY dont get armor buffs and get the full 3500/7500 damage. Corpus to a lesser extend because they have Ranged option and you have to dodge more.

Survivability... you would need a few things to make them survivable enough to be really good and you have some options depending on the Tree:

NOTE: Operator Arcanes are applied before being MULTIPLIED by the Focus Tree.

We have a Magus Vigor that gives +200 HP to the Operator  when maxed. If you have Vazarin's Enduring Tides maxed (+150% HP), you will have 1125 Health. If you have 2 installed and maxed Enduring Tides, its 1625.

If you have Magus Husk, it gives a FLAT +100 armor when maxed, if the Operator Armor is 30 (9% reduction) as we believe, it will be 130 Armor (30% reduction), if you have Unairu's Basilistic Scales (+200% Armor), you will have 390 Armor (56% Reduction), 2 maxed and it will be 690 (69% Damage reduction). I would use just 1 because of diminishing returns.

Now, one of the "must haves" I found is the Magus Replenish when maxed it has 100% chance to restore 20% (Doesnt seem to be working, its less than 20%) with each Void Dash.

Sadly, we can only use 2 Arcanes on the Operator, I hope they give us the option to put them on the sleves and leggings too.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Kaotyke

[SilvaDreams]

6 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

About the speed... Naramon's Mind Step can give +30% Running speed to the Operator. havent seen anyone use side by side to compare.

In terms of damage, the T2 Prism, T2 Scaffold just destroy infested since they do USUALLY dont get armor buffs and get the full 3500/7500 damage. Corpus to a lesser extend because they have Ranged option and you have to dodge more.

Survivability... you would need a few things to make them survivable enough to be really good and you have some options depending on the Tree:

NOTE: Operator Arcanes are applied before being MULTIPLIED by the Focus Tree.

We have a Magus Vigor that gives +200 HP to the Operator  when maxed. If you have Vazarin's Enduring Tides maxed (+150% HP), you will have 1125 Health. If you have 2 installed and maxed Enduring Tides, its 1625.

If you have Magus Husk, it gives a FLAT +100 armor when maxed, if the Operator Armor is 30 (9% reduction) as we believe, it will be 130 Armor (30% reduction), if you have Unairu's Basilistic Scales (+200% Armor), you will have 390 Armor (56% Reduction), 2 maxed and it will be 690 (69% Damage reduction). I would use just 1 because of diminishing returns.

Now, one of the "must haves" I found is the Magus Replenish when maxed it has 100% chance to restore 20% (Doesnt seem to be working, its less than 20%) with each Void Dash.

Sadly, we can only use 2 Arcanes on the Operator, I hope they give us the option to put them on the sleves and leggings too.

Mind Step is quite noticeable actually. You'll know when someone is using it, even the first level of it has a noticeable effect.

[7thCreed]

Last time I checked, the game I'm playing is called "Warframe" not "Operator".

[Sandhoof]

Thanks god, there is no reason! Hate Operator so much!

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

About the speed... Naramon's Mind Step can give +30% Running speed to the Operator. havent seen anyone use side by side to compare.

In terms of damage, the T2 Prism, T2 Scaffold just destroy infested since they do USUALLY dont get armor buffs and get the full 3500/7500 damage. Corpus to a lesser extend because they have Ranged option and you have to dodge more.

Survivability... you would need a few things to make them survivable enough to be really good and you have some options depending on the Tree:

NOTE: Operator Arcanes are applied before being MULTIPLIED by the Focus Tree.

We have a Magus Vigor that gives +200 HP to the Operator  when maxed. If you have Vazarin's Enduring Tides maxed (+150% HP), you will have 1125 Health. If you have 2 installed and maxed Enduring Tides, its 1625.

If you have Magus Husk, it gives a FLAT +100 armor when maxed, if the Operator Armor is 30 (9% reduction) as we believe, it will be 130 Armor (30% reduction), if you have Unairu's Basilistic Scales (+200% Armor), you will have 390 Armor (56% Reduction), 2 maxed and it will be 690 (69% Damage reduction). I would use just 1 because of diminishing returns.

Now, one of the "must haves" I found is the Magus Replenish when maxed it has 100% chance to restore 20% (Doesnt seem to be working, its less than 20%) with each Void Dash.

Sadly, we can only use 2 Arcanes on the Operator, I hope they give us the option to put them on the sleves and leggings too.

That's great and all...but it's locked behind the ridiculous Quills grind. Talking months, just to make the Operator moderately useful. 

Imagine needing months to unlock Bullet Jump, double Jump, Wall Cling and Dodge Roll, as well as enough speed to use them.

Literally no one would be okay with this.

Operator should be useful from Go. Unlocks should make them better, or at least better at some niche, not tolerable to use.

[Viges]

Quote

There is currently NO REASON to use OPERATORS outside of plains and kuva.

And i really hope it'll stay like that

[Kaotyke]

20 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

That's great and all...but it's locked behind the ridiculous Quills grind. Talking months, just to make the Operator moderately useful. 

Imagine needing months to unlock Bullet Jump, double Jump, Wall Cling and Dodge Roll, as well as enough speed to use them.

Literally no one would be okay with this.

Operator should be useful from Go. Unlocks should make them better, or at least better at some niche, not tolerable to use.

Months? I already have the Magus Replenish, and I started to farm for it this week. Doing 1 night for Eidolon farm can give enough points to max my 25,000 Daily standing, of course you NEED a good team, weapons, mods and amps. By the time you need the Amps you are most likely in a good place in the former 3.

THE problem however is the resources needed, for Magus Husk you need 7,100 Cryotic PER piece. It wasnt a problem for someone who played for years. Magus Vigor has a relatively low cost considering it needs Alloy Plate, Sentirum, fish scales and Murkray Livers, much more afortable.

Scott even said yesterday that they are making the pool universal and are looking for different ways focus is earned because one thing most people CAN agree with is that: The cost to better the Operator doesnt reflect the benefits in most nodes.

I can safely say I will ignore Guardian Blast, I wont waste 1/4 of my energy pool to recover/give 100 shields that will be lost in moments, I wont touch Sonic Dash in a good while because I lose a very good CC to affect only the enemies in front of me when I fish the dash, i wont bother with Void Aegis because NO ONE gets inside the shield no matter how much it No Sells attacks, I wont bother with Rejuvenating Tides or Void regen because I have Magus Replenish, which recovers a % of health instantly!

Focus and Amps made the Operator much better than before, lets hope it doesnt take another year for them do improve them again.

So, stop putting a lot of negative speculations out there, throwing things out of proportion without proof, you even made 2 new players quit because you told them of the grind and how "absurd it is compared to Destiny 2, instead of the journey. Its like telling me how much of a pain it would be to get the Celestial Weapons in FFX, dodging 100 thunderbolts, but by that time I did not care: I came to enjoy the game and didnt care for the grind.

As we call it here: You are making a storm in a cup of water.

Throw your critscism, be constructive about it, use actual facts to explain things instead of making them seem way worse than they are.

[BlackCoMerc]

22 minutes ago, Viges said:

And i really hope it'll stay like that

Amen.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

Months? I already have the Magus Replenish, and I started to farm for it this week. Doing 1 night for Eidolon farm can give enough points to max my 25,000 Daily standing, of course you NEED a good team, weapons, mods and amps. By the time you need the Amps you are most likely in a good place in the former 3.

THE problem however is the resources needed, for Magus Husk you need 7,100 Cryotic PER piece. It wasnt a problem for someone who played for years. Magus Vigor has a relatively low cost considering it needs Alloy Plate, Sentirum, fish scales and Murkray Livers, much more afortable.

Scott even said yesterday that they are making the pool universal and are looking for different ways focus is earned because one thing most people CAN agree with is that: The cost to better the Operator doesnt reflect the benefits in most nodes.

I can safely say I will ignore Guardian Blast, I wont waste 1/4 of my energy pool to recover/give 100 shields that will be lost in moments, I wont touch Sonic Dash in a good while because I lose a very good CC to affect only the enemies in front of me when I fish the dash, i wont bother with Void Aegis because NO ONE gets inside the shield no matter how much it No Sells attacks, I wont bother with Rejuvenating Tides or Void regen because I have Magus Replenish, which recovers a % of health instantly!

Focus and Amps made the Operator much better than before, lets hope it doesnt take another year for them do improve them again.

So, stop putting a lot of negative speculations out there, throwing things out of proportion without proof, you even made 2 new players quit because you told them of the grind and how "absurd it is compared to Destiny 2, instead of the journey. Its like telling me how much of a pain it would be to get the Celestial Weapons in FFX, dodging 100 thunderbolts, but by that time I did not care: I came to enjoy the game and didnt care for the grind.

As we call it here: You are making a storm in a cup of water.

Throw your critscism, be constructive about it, use actual facts to explain things instead of making them seem way worse than they are.

I didn't "make two players quit."

Two players I know quit, and two more are considering it, because of:

Poor new player Experience. Lack of information, utter dependency on wikis.

Interminable grind

Crafting wait walls for frames. Fifteen runs for Rhino was bad enough...but then a week of crafting after? That's just insulting.

Unbalanced game

As for Destiny 2, they're the ones who convinced me to play it. And while I like Warframe movement and powers better, I must admit that where rewards and balance are concerned, Destiny is the far better franchise.

 

[RX-3DR]

12 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I didn't "make two players quit."

Two players I know quit, and two more are considering it, because of:

Poor new player Experience. Lack of information, utter dependency on wikis.

Interminable grind

Crafting wait walls for frames. Fifteen runs for Rhino was bad enough...but then a week of crafting after? That's just insulting.

Unbalanced game

As for Destiny 2, they're the ones who convinced me to play it. And while I like Warframe movement and powers better, I must admit that where rewards and balance are concerned, Destiny is the far better franchise.

Destiny 2? Really? You mean grinding out Heroic Events over and over to try to boost up the Power of a single equipment by 3 points?

What we have here, is a group of people willing to embrace change and are finding new ways to use the tools they have and are willing to invest in upgrading those tools. And another group who are so hellbent on hating Operators that they want everything related to operators to be a problem in an attempt to justify their hatred and their unwillingness to adapt. Things that are natural in games of the genre and existing in the system in some form or another is suddenly a problem when it's related to Operators.

I dislike the look of operators because their customization is very limited and no matter what you do, they're always a stark contrast to the look of the game. Yet, I find myself using my Operator more with the new Focus tree and Amps. I still dislike the way they look and the way they move but they add another level of depth in what you bring into missions. I'm willing to overlook their aesthetic appeal for their value in gameplay. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Flandyrll

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Flandyrll said:

Destiny 2? Really? You mean grinding out Heroic Events over and over to try to boost up the Power of a single equipment by 3 points?

What we have here, is a group of people willing to embrace change and are finding new ways to use the tools they have and are willing to invest in upgrading those tools. And another group who are so hellbent on hating Operators that they want everything related to operators to be a problem in an attempt to justify their hatred and their unwillingness to adapt. Things that are natural in games of the genre and existing in the system in some form or another is suddenly a problem when it's related to Operators.

I dislike the look of operators because their customization is very limited and no matter what you do, they're always a stark contrast to the look of the game. Yet, I find myself using my Operator more with the new Focus tree and Amps. I still dislike the way they look and the way they move but they add another level of depth in what you bring into missions. I'm willing to overlook their aesthetic appeal for their value in gameplay. 

I don't hate the Operator. I used mine to pop O2 while in Stealth. Once.

What I DO hate, is that they've clearly taken time and focus away from Warframe game play...for something much less fun.

Let me examine the ways I have used my Operator:

O2 in Survival, in Stealth. Itself a miserable, unfun mechanic that has far out lived it's usefulness, Operators make the rare necessity of using O2 towers suck less. They don't make it good, or fun; just less bad.

Kuva: Only good for one BP and Riven, which are gated behind Sorties. Which are awful, tedious chores full of ridiculous limitations and sponges with one shot kill weapons. And with a HORRIBLE drop rate to boot. 

Not the least bit interested. But if I were? Getting Kuca sucks. Getting Rivens sucks. Unveiling Rivens ABSOLUTELY SUCKS. But hey, having the Operator, makes this Festival of Tedium a little less terrible.

Teralyst: Finally a big, bad, Borderlands style Monster. One I'd love to chip away at with my powerful frame and weapons, that I worked hard to Forma and trick out.. finally, a big, bad END GAME MONSTER...

That throws all my time, effort and work RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW by FORCING Operator/Quill grind just to take down it's shield.

But hey... Operators make this ABSOLUTELY SUCK just a little less, so that's good, right?

Do you see the problem? Literally everything the operator does, just makes bad systems with arbitrary limits and ridiculous restrictions slightly less awful than they already are.

If i dislike the Operator, its because DE has TAUGHT me to dislike the Operator. Its not enough that it's an awkward, slow, creepy child murderer that's taken months of Dev time away from the reasons I love this game.

The ONLY purpose it serves in the game, is to make terrible systems that are so awful they should never have gotten past QA suck a little less. So tell me: why SHOULD we like it? Because the things it was created to help with, STILL SUCK...albeit, maybe just a little less now.

Edited November 4, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[UltimateSpinDash]

I think if DE wants to make Operators a real part of the game, there needs to be a seamless transition between Warframe and Operator gameplay. And even more importantly, there needs to be a symbiosis between the two.

Would be cool if you spend all these hours playing Warframe, then get to the Second Dream, and only then reach character creation. Then after War Within you realize about 40-50% of active gameplay was actually missing, but you never noticed because the Warframe mechanics can stand on their own.

I also think that in terms of raw power, the Operators should surpass any Warframe with ease. But they can't keep up peak performance for long, unlike the Warframes, and lack the Warframe's more specialized powers.

 

Right now, no matter what missions DE adds, Operators will be like Archwing - a separate game that's flashy, but ultimately pointless.

Edited November 4, 2017 by UltimateSpinDash

[Mavor]

Maybe its been mentioned, I didn't read thru all the replies - but your operator is *exceptionally* good at dealing with Stalker...

Also, the operator is amazing when it comes to moments when you'd otherwise be screwed - like suddenly getting overwhelmed while solo - what would very likely kill your frame - you can avoid and/or soak up via the operator.

While currently, the operator's *mandatory* usage is limited - creative usage of the operator outside those instances does allow them to shine and allow the player to perform in ways they weren't able to before.

Also - there is no way DE went the direction they did, with operators, without having more in store for them. They may seem 'pointless' to some right now - but I seriously doubt they will stay that way for long.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Mavor

[(PSN)FatMacBrbn]

I agree with what Skill Up mentioned in his POE review. Actually, my thoughts towards operators are the same towards archwing, they are not why I play the game. I was hoping Harrow's quest was the last time I'd be forced into playing as an operator. The last three quest were cool far as it goes with the lore, but thats enough of that for me. If it's combat, I want to stay in my warframe. 

[Kurtys]

The main problem I have with operators right now, as far as combat goes, is the same i have with warframe damage powers and weapons : Grineers.

A room full of level 50-60 Corpus or Infested ? Sure, if i'm careful with my positioning, i can take them with only my operator powers and amp without to much trouble.

A room with a bunch of level 50-60 Grineer ? Cool, my operator powers deal next to no damage now and I have to empty my whole amp energy just to kill 1 heavy. Also, good luck dodging hitscan weapons !

Our weapon's damage increase exponentially with mods which makes taking on armor scaling somewhat possible. But that's not the case with our power's damage.