Catalyst And Reactors: The Ugly Pay to Progress Impression

[BlackCoMerc]

It's 1055am on a Monday, US East Coast time. I'm sitting at work. Checking email. Seeing the first Catalyst alert I have seen in Warframe in weeks. (Outside of Gifts, I've only ever seen one other, and it, too, was - troublingly enough - on a weekday morning).

The simple fact of the matter is that both Potatoes are NECESSARY for Progression toward later game content. They aren't optional. They aren't luxuries. Without these items, the door to late game is closed...or at least, a lot harder to open.

And yet...these items aren't available to free players. Not with anything remotely approaching Reliability in terms of either frequency or quantity. Especially true for Reactors.

And still, DE makes the statement that this is a Free to Play game. Which is, technically, true. If only in name, because of the early game, yes, playing Warframe is free.

But Progression...that's not so cheap. As it turns out, getting the most from frames and weapons is ALMOST certainly going to cost money. Because this is achieved through in game items. Items that DE simply flat refuses to make available for free with any reliability.

Now, I'll be the first to say that I think any player playing a game like Warframe long enough to care about late game and maxed out hear, ought to throw SOME money at the game by way of support. And I've put my wallet where my keyboard is probably a little more often than I should have done in times past. Rest assured, this isn't about wanting something for free.

Rather...this post comes from concern. From caring about the games success. And about how some players could this as a bait and switch tactic. "Sure it's free," they'll say. "To PLAY. But only if you don't care about actually PROGRESSING. It's free to play...some of it."

I think this is a thing DE should consider. It's one thing to sit back.and CLAIM these items are available regulatory for free. But when "regularly" seems to happen mostly mid morning on weekdays for the most populous areas your players inhabit...that claim comes off as more dubious every time we hear it.

So DE, please...take a look at the frequency, and the reliability, of Catalyst and Reactor access for free players. I think this is something that may be an issue and deserves a look. Before it gives a lot of new players a bad impression.

Edited November 20, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

You can get them for free any time by just farming some prime parts, selling them, and then buying them. The alerts are just an alternative

[Quimoth]

catalyst and reactors... no sir not even close. inventory slots, yes you are right. Let me also be clear that by simply playing this game you'll get a free catalyst/reactor bp after every devstream, add to that the login reward catalyst/reactors and you pretty soon realize that unless you HAVE to get all frames potatoed you don't need to panic and put 20p in. Which by the way is less then 1/4 of what people pay for cosmetics.

 

Please note that platinum is obtainable trough trading with players, this means that theoretically nothing has to be paid in order to get platinum.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Quimoth

[RAZORLIGHT]

Warframe has by far one of the best and most fair free 2 play models out there.

[Tsukinoki]

Sorry but what?

Potatoes are easily available.
You get one from the Stolen Dreams quest, you get some from the bi-weekly gift of the lotus, you get some from invasions, you get some from sorties, you get some as a sign in reward, you get some from alerts.

I've seen quite a few more potato invasions vs alerts in the recent past, and while they go quickly they are all fast missions not that hard to get.

Potatoes are fairly easy to get even for players who refuse to buy plat and refuse to trade for some.
Just regularly playing the game gets you a small amount of them, and usually more Catalysts then Reactors which make sense since you need more blue potatoes than gold ones.

Finally: Very few weapons are worth potatoing.  Taking that into account and there are more than enough free ones floating around for new players to get a hold of.

[Shiichibukai]

Not even gonna read, youre wrong.

[Wylph]

Catalysts are availble free quite often after almost every stream, with additional chances to get a 20-70% discount for plat on daily logins. Also, if you're not willing to pay the tiny amount of money for them, then you're just being cheap. You have an amazing game, which is 99% free. So show some support.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Wylph

[Tricky5hift]

Can't you just sell some stuff for plat and buy a Catalyst, Reactor, or Slots at literally any time?

What, were you expecting to get these things without any effort whatsoever?

[RagingGrizzly]

Not sure what you're going on about. Some guns can even do great without a catalyst. I just gimped my own gear and went to Adaro, and I did just fine, even with the New Loka spawning on me.

Edited November 20, 2017 by PUR3K1LL3R

[BlackCoMerc]

12 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

You can get them for free any time by just farming some prime parts, selling them, and then buying them. The alerts are just an alternative

I knew I'd find this same garbage here.

That isn't "for free." Play comes from SOMEONE spending money. Kind of makes my point for me, thanks.

[BlackCoMerc]

3 minutes ago, Wylph said:

Catalysts are availble free quite often after almost every stream, with additional chances to get a 20-70% discount for plat on daily logins. Also, if you're not willing to pay the tiny amount of money for them, then you're just being cheap. You have an amazing game, which is 99% free. So show some support.

Specifically addressed this in my post.

Please try actually reading it.

Thanks. 

[BlackCoMerc]

3 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Can't you just sell some stuff for plat and buy a Catalyst, Reactor, or Slots at literally any time?

What, were you expecting to get these things without any effort whatsoever?

Again...FREE to play. Play isn't available to players for free, beyond the small smattering you get to start.

Making the same point for me.

[MirageKnight]

5 minutes ago, Quimoth said:

Please note that platinum is obtainable trough trading with players, this means that theoretically nothing has to be paid in order to get platinum.

For every bit of plat circulating in player trade, someone exchanged real money for it. No if's and's or but's.

And to put things in perspective, one plat = $0.15 (U.S.) excluding any discount.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I knew I'd find this same garbage here.

That isn't "for free." Play comes from SOMEONE spending money. Kind of makes my point for me, thanks.

Actually it is 100% free to you. Just because somebody else decided to support the game with their money doesn't make it pay to win.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, MirageKnight said:

For every bit of plat circulating in player trade, someone exchanged real money for it. No if's and's or but's.

And to put things in perspective, one plat = $0.15 (U.S.) excluding any discount.

Thanks for this.

I'm not against supporting the game. Done it plenty myself.

On the other hand, I AM concerned about the impression this gives to players. It's free...but Progression toward the late game is pretty much gated by items that cost SOMEONE real money at some point.

That's...not free. And if Progression isn't actually free...then...is your game free to play, or free to try?

[Tricky5hift]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

I knew I'd find this same garbage here.

That isn't "for free." Play comes from SOMEONE spending money. Kind of makes my point for me, thanks.

Hmm well lets see, I have around 70 plat.

How much did I spend to get that plat? 0 USD.

Yup, seems pretty free to me.

What, other people spending money so others don't suddenly makes the game pay to progress? Sounds like a bit of an overstatement.

Also, yeah call people's statements "garbage". Reaallllly makes you point...

[StinkyPygmy]

They really aren't strictly necessary. If I can manage to take unpotatoed frames and weapons to sortie 3 then I'm sure most people can manage.

I'm currently sitting on 7 cats and 4 (I think) reactors, all of them free as mission rewards/gifts from DE, some of them a few years old.  Sometimes used to potato weapons I've thrown out purely to make leveling easier (before the mastery changes to mod cap). I've probably bought about 5 of each potatoe over 4 years.

I don't play anywhere near as much as I used too. Not even 10 hours a week in the last year. Yet here I am sitting on mountains of gear, almost all the frames, and almost everything potatoed. In my personal experience, things aren't quite what you are making them out to be.

Edited November 20, 2017 by StinkyPygmy

[BlackCoMerc]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Actually it is 100% free to you. Just because somebody else decided to support the game with their money doesn't make it pay to win.

But it's NOT free. That's a FACT.

And this isn't about Pay to Win. NO ONE mentioned those words.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, Tricky5hift said:

Hmm well lets see, I have around 70 plat.

How much did I spend to get that plat? 0 USD.

Yup, seems pretty free to me.

What, other people spending money so others don't suddenly makes the game pay to progress? Sounds like a bit of an overstatement.

Also, yeah call people's statements "garbage". Reaallllly makes you point...

It's a garbage reply. It's copied and pasted into every thread that even tries to talk about real cost of items in this game.

Garbage in, garbage out.

[DrBorris]

I really wonder how much money DE actually makes off of potatoes/slots. They are so insanely cheap, especially given the prices of cosmetics.

However, for potatoes at least, I feel the rate at which you get them is fine. This is mostly because, in my over cough*cough hours playing Warframe I have only bought maybe 10 in total, and I have 8 in reserve right now.

An important point to consider here is that new players don't need potatoes. Hell, new players often have trouble using 30 mod capacity. By the time new players actually need a potato, chances are they have stocked up a few.

 

That said, I would say giving newer players a few more potatoes (Starter Warframe should get potatoed in a tutorial quest IMO) from the start would be good. As for slots, I would say you should get one weapon slot for ever MR test and a Warframe slot every 3 MR tests.

 

Just now, Shichibukai88 said:

Not even gonna read, youre wrong.

Wow... seriously? I don't really agree with the OP either, but at least I read it to understand their point. What you basically are doing here is sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la, I don't care what you say, I am right and you are wrong" without even knowing what the other person is talking about. Maybe the OP brought up a point you never thought of, maybe the post is not about what you thought it is, you need to be open to being wrong for there ever to be any discussion anywhere, that kind of attitude helps no one but your own ego.

 

(Also, @BlackCoMerc, may I ask why you rarely multi-quote?)

[Tricky5hift]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It's a garbage reply. It's copied and pasted into every thread that even tries to talk about real cost of items in this game.

Garbage in, garbage out.

It's a response to your statement, hell its not even ****posting.

How can you be this condescending and still expect people to take what you say seriously?

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, DrBorris said:

I really wonder how much money DE actually makes off of potatoes/slots. They are so insanely cheap, especially given the prices of cosmetics.

However, for potatoes at least, I feel the rate at which you get them is fine. This is mostly because, in my over cough*cough hours playing Warframe I have only bought maybe 10 in total, and I have 8 in reserve right now.

An important point to consider here is that new players don't need potatoes. Hell, new players often have trouble using 30 mod capacity. By the time new players actually need a potato, chances are they have stocked up a few.

 

That said, I would say giving newer players a few more potatoes (Starter Warframe should get potatoed in a tutorial quest IMO) from the start would be good. As for slots, I would say you should get one weapon slot for ever MR test and a Warframe slot every 3 MR tests.

 

Wow... seriously? I don't really agree with the OP either, but at least I read it to understand their point. What you basically are doing here is sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la, I don't care what you say, I am right and you are wrong" without even knowing what the other person is talking about. Maybe the OP brought up a point you never thought of, maybe the post is not about what you thought it is, you need to be open to being wrong for there ever to be any discussion anywhere, that kind of attitude helps no one but your own ego.

 

(Also, @BlackCoMerc, may I ask why you rarely multi-quote?)

I post from mobile...multi is...a pain...on the phone. But good point, I'll try to do so more often.

And one qualifier here: I'm not claiming Potatoes cost too much. Or even a lot. 

I'm just looking at the impression their rarity gives, versus the power they convey. And that impression is one of necessity...which makes their rarity as free items somewhat problematic for truly free players.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

But it's NOT free. That's a FACT.

And this isn't about Pay to Win. NO ONE mentioned those words.

Pay to Progress and Pay to Win are no different first of all. And my previous point still stands, it is free to you, even if not to someone else. This game has been around for so long that I wouldn't be surprised if there was over a billion platinum circulating. (Guess I don't have proof here, just something I would personally doubt is false.)

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, Tricky5hift said:

It's a response to your statement, hell its not even ****posting.

How can you be this condescending and still expect people to take what you say seriously?

Why does a copy/paste crap posting that's thrown into every discussion about cost deserve thought and effort?

[--F--NerevarCM]

Damn, it was too good to be true. I really not miss you talking sh*t on the forums @BlackCoMerc

Now back to your normal agenda: "I don't have fun with this game anymore", "This mechanic is pay to progress"

Oh the best one: "This mechanic is bad game design!"