The Problem isn't Gara, it's Mission Design

[BlackCoMerc]

Quick and simple: DE don't want camping. They clearly don't want wide areas completely locked down. And they Nerf any frame capable of these things... mostly, within reason.

And yet, they never look at what enables these "Invulnerability area" issues: Mission Design.

Put Simply: We need rewarding missions that don't involve staying in one small area the whole Mission. If you don't want people defending a sungle danger-free zone...stop designing missions around defending small spaces/staying in one room.

Take a look at Assault. Be a good jumping off point for Non-Endless stuff. Especially if each phase or objective granted a Rotation reward. (Or if, heaven forbid, you one day actually let loot containers drop real, useful, fun loot).

[K4RN4]

9 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Put Simply: We need rewarding missions that don't involve staying in one small area the whole Mission. If you don't want people defending a sungle danger-free zone...stop designing missions around defending small spaces/staying in one room.

You mean something like Defection, one of the most hated missiontypes?

[KirukaChan]

I agree about Assault. It's a good example of a mission type done right. Its objectives are so varied that I actually have to spend time really considering what Frame to bring, especially on Sorties. I just wish I had more incentive to actually play it instead of just going to Hieracon yet again and camping on drills with Frost for Cryotic, Relics, Endo and tons of Affinity.

[---Merchant---]

12 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Or if, heaven forbid, you one day actually let loot containers drop real, useful, fun loot).

If I remember correctly 3-4years ago containers actually had some pretty nice rewards including prime frames.
Now there are I think ship parts and mods from rare containers and nothing from normal ones.

[NightmareT12]

9 minutes ago, MidoriFuse said:

If I remember correctly 3-4years ago containers actually had some pretty nice rewards including prime frames.
Now there are I think ship parts and mods from rare containers and nothing from normal ones.

You don't do remember correctly. Unless it was in a Void Tower mission mode where getting the 3 caches gave you an extra item, which I belñieve was not the case.

And yes, Gara is the issue. I took her for Bere at level 14 because I didn't level her up yet a whoooooooole long time after Plains dropped.

And jeez, her 4th power rendered me unkillable. At level 14. Not only you are invincible in cast time, no enemies could enter and those in the area got frozen. I mean, really people.

EDIT: See below.

Edited December 5, 2017 by NightmareT12

[---Merchant---]

2 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

You don't remember correctly.

I've visited wiki page and I DO remember correctly.
They really used to drop prime parts.

[HitokiriGuille]

2 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

You don't remember correctly.

He is right, on reinforced containers there were prime parts but wasnt for too long

[NightmareT12]

Just now, MidoriFuse said:

I've visited wiki page and I DO remember correctly.
They really used to drop prime parts.

And you're right. Wait what, 4 years playing and not once I encountered one of those LOL

• Reinforced Orokin Containers will drop a random Prime Blueprint.

Welp.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 minutes ago, Oru5732 said:

You mean something like Defection, one of the most hated missiontypes?

No.

Definitely not like that.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 minutes ago, MidoriFuse said:

If I remember correctly 3-4years ago containers actually had some pretty nice rewards including prime frames.
Now there are I think ship parts and mods from rare containers and nothing from normal ones.

Yep. And if all the best rewards come from standing in a room, surviving a timer, you are encouraging the very walling off/camping you want to discourage...

Not very productive.

[---Merchant---]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No.

Definitely not like that.

haha,i still can not get harrow part because AI does bug in EVERY PHASE,I even tried to loki switch teleport ALL the bugged ai to the target destination but it was long process so I did just one rotation c

WF did ignore the "Escort in mmo=bad game,bad idea" meme and it was mistake...
There are plenty of bugs related just to escort missions and escorting bot in the plains...

[BlackCoMerc]

13 minutes ago, MidoriFuse said:

haha,i still can not get harrow part because AI does bug in EVERY PHASE,I even tried to loki switch teleport ALL the bugged ai to the target destination but it was long process so I did just one rotation c

WF did ignore the "Escort in mmo=bad game,bad idea" meme and it was mistake...
There are plenty of bugs related just to escort missions and escorting bot in the plains...

I honestly do not get it. Escort is the single most hated mission in gaming. People LOATHE escort missions. Heck, theyre a running joke to gamers.

Yet DE just added TWO of them recently. It's like they live in 1999 and need to make 20 years of mistakes themselves to learn from them. I've said before, but...just because you have lots of people who can develop CODE, doesn't mean you have a lot of people skilled at development of a GAME.

DE needs to hire a Lead Game Designer, so they can take their slick, fun, bar setting Action Game play and put it into a GAME, as opposed to a bunch if separate, disparate, isolated mechanical minefields.

Edited December 5, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[o.0-]

Any suggestions for Missions then?

As this is sounding like a catch-22 issue at this rate. I wonder if applying the multi-stage Bounty progression could be possible?

There'd still be single stage missions, but what about allowing for some multi-stage shenanigans?

I've wanted missions with a tad more variety. That one Grineer tile that has us hack two terminals and then guard that cryo pod has me wondering about such possibilities.

1. Hack one Spy Vault
2. Defend one Terminal
3. Then Hijack a target to an extraction zone, then go to exit. (How cool would it be to escort a cryo pod to an outside landing pad using the Grineer Rail system we see every where? to then get picked up by a friendly ship). Or escort one of those huge Osprey that the Corpus seem to use to transport items in some tiles?

I like Assault too, wish the devs would be able to add that type to more tilesets

1. Break into the bridge of the ship
2. Redirect the ship into a collision course with another ship, Defending the Bridge until it's too late
3. Sabotage the Reactor so that you take out at least two ships.

Other hybrid mixes outside of the plains

1. Defend a terminal, Intercept a message
2. Capture an enemy courier, exterminate a group of officers, sabotage systems
3. Then Hack a Spy Vault, Assassinate an enemy leader, escort a hijacked shipment and so on

[BlackCoMerc]

10 minutes ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Any suggestions for Missions then?

As this is sounding like a catch-22 issue at this rate. I wonder if applying the multi-stage Bounty progression could be possible?

There'd still be single stage missions, but what about allowing for some multi-stage shenanigans?

I've wanted missions with a tad more variety. That one Grineer tile that has us hack two terminals and then guard that cryo pod has me wondering about such possibilities.

1. Hack one Spy Vault
2. Defend one Terminal
3. Then Hijack a target to an extraction zone, then go to exit. (How cool would it be to escort a cryo pod to an outside landing pad using the Grineer Rail system we see every where? to then get picked up by a friendly ship). Or escort one of those huge Osprey that the Corpus seem to use to transport items in some tiles?

I like Assault too, wish the devs would be able to add that type to more tilesets

1. Break into the bridge of the ship
2. Redirect the ship into a collision course with another ship, Defending the Bridge until it's too late
3. Sabotage the Reactor so that you take out at least two ships.

Other hybrid mixes outside of the plains

1. Defend a terminal, Intercept a message
2. Capture an enemy courier, exterminate a group of officers, sabotage systems
3. Then Hack a Spy Vault, Assassinate an enemy leader, escort a hijacked shipment and so on

I also think objectives should vary from one run to the next. Add in lots of variants and variables in those variants. With the eventual goal of a dynamic mission system.

In the shot term, though, we need to get moving again. And not to escort stuff.

[Educated_Beast]

2 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

You mean something like Defection, one of the most hated missiontypes?

I only dislike it because it is versus infested.  I find infested unrewarding to fight (low XP).  In a game where we always need to progress, it is aggrivating to play missions without shared xp (to far to reach) or low XP enemies (infested).

 

Other than that, it's not a bad game mode.

[Xzorn]

If DE didn't want camping they shouldn't have made Nullifiers.

I've been an Endurance runner for 4 years now and I rarely had to camp until DE introduced that enemy.

[Teljaxx]

This is exactly why I hate all the endless mission types. They all combine the longest duration with the least movement and punish exploration.

I play capture and exterminate missions the most, because I can wander around and actually go exploring without abandoning the objective and failing. But even the most mobile endless missions, survival and excavation, are still far too limited, usually only utilizing 3~4 main tiles and a couple connectors per mission, yet they expect you to play in that same little area for far longer than other missions.

I would love to see something like an endless exterminate or sabotage mission type, where you enter a ship, kill everyone on board, get a reward, then move to a new one and do it again. This would be a perfect crossfire mission for one thing, because you could alternate between different enemy factions per ship. It would also be a good way to integrate archwing into the mix, using it to get between ships. Though the invasion transfer tiles would work just fine, too. Either way, having an endless mission type where you also have an endless map to move through would be great.

[DroopingPuppy]

Speaking for Gara, the more problem for her seems the resources required to build her parts after we get the blueprints for her parts. :( It makes me sick to see the list of resources required to build her. I can't understand why such a ridiculous amount of resources are required to so called 'easy to build' warframe.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DroopingPuppy

[---Merchant---]

1 hour ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Speaking for Gara, the more problem for her seems the resources required to build her parts after we get the blueprints for her parts. :( It makes me sick to see the list of resources required to build her. I can't understand why such a ridiculous amount of resources are required to so called 'easy to build' warframe.

What? It was one of cheapest warframes material wise that i ever build.
If you do not complain about vauban that need 20+ nitain extracts,i can not see this being issue for you.

[DroopingPuppy]

1 hour ago, MidoriFuse said:

What? It was one of cheapest warframes material wise that i ever build.
If you do not complain about vauban that need 20+ nitain extracts,i can not see this being issue for you.

As I have enough nitains, so I don't have any problem on gathering the resources for vauban prime personally. But that's not applied to the others.

 

Also, 'It's easier than A' have really no meaning on here and can't make any excuses at all, since the most hardest one's difficulty doesn't make any excuse for the others, and even ignores the pain of the others by simply say 'I did it easy but why you can't?' That's just nonsense, without a doubt. It only have an excuse for compare the difficulty for vauban and vauban prime(because the prime version is must not easy to build than its basic one), but not the others.

 

And, I don't think that requires 25 Esher Devar, 90 Pyrotic Alloy, and 120 Coprite Alloy would be easy at all. Even about 5~7 nitains - that requires you to wait for 3 to 7+days depend on your time to spend on Warframe! -  would be easier than that, and don't require you to only seek and mining laggy plain for hours and days.

 

I thought that gathering the blueprints for the parts of Gara was a painful trial for me, but not just for that, but also gathering the resources to make the parts is also a hugh problem for me as well. -_-; It is no more than a total crisis.

 

 

By the way, isn't it supposed on the Plains of Eidolon Feedback forum, not here? It seems that I have a mistake.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DroopingPuppy

[SenorClipClop]

Okay, yes, missions could be more engaging. But the problem was clearly Gara. Right now she gets to Bullet Jump, press 4 and then create a giant space in which your whole team gets to afk for almost a minute. It's like Snowglobe with infinite health plus Repelling Bastille rolled into one, and let's be fair it trivializes the defense of stationary objectives. Let's hope for some scaling to be included with the Mass Vitrify changes, but even so the nerf is fair.

[ACULonSeer]

12 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Quick and simple: DE don't want camping. They clearly don't want wide areas completely locked down. And they Nerf any frame capable of these things... mostly, within reason.

And yet, they never look at what enables these "Invulnerability area" issues: Mission Design.

Put Simply: We need rewarding missions that don't involve staying in one small area the whole Mission. If you don't want people defending a sungle danger-free zone...stop designing missions around defending small spaces/staying in one room.

Take a look at Assault. Be a good jumping off point for Non-Endless stuff. Especially if each phase or objective granted a Rotation reward. (Or if, heaven forbid, you one day actually let loot containers drop real, useful, fun loot).

Honestly Gara is kind of a badly designed frame imo. Her abilities seem to encourage cheesy play, what with the stacking shard damage by repeatedly detonating the 4 from outside, the 4's ability to pacify all enemies in range, and the fact that she almost completely replaces Frost from a defensive standpoint while ALSO having a ton of offensive power. Shes every min-max META player's wet dream. 

[DroopingPuppy]

Is there much diffrence with Limbo? A well modded Limbo can shield the objective better than her already, if you just want to dancing around while waiting.

 

Because there are already some point defense concentrated warframes out there, such as Frost and Limbo, keep defense mission is not that bad. And even if we have more varients of mission types we will get the most easy one in the most times.... Sadly.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DroopingPuppy

[ACULonSeer]

7 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Is there much diffrence with Limbo? A well modded Limbo can shield the objective better than her already, if you just want to dancing around while waiting.

 

Because there are already some point defense concentrated warframes out there, such as Frost and Limbo, keep defense mission is not that bad. And even if we have more varients of mission types we will get the most easy one in the most times.... Sadly.

Id say Limbo isnt as good because enemies can still shoot within the bubble, same with Frost. Gara not only stops enemies from shooting with her bubble, she freezes them solid. This actually allows the wall to be used aggressively, which is more than a little cheesy.

[VampirePirate]

What I don't understand is why they made Gara's 4th like this in the first place, especially since soon after release they plan to change it anyway.

Do they play test anything?