We require context in the video of the uncapped Volt nerf.

[Splazarus]

I do not play Volt all that much due to the fact that in the past, he has done next to no damage with his 4, and I just felt that there were better options. I was excited to hear that volt was getting a general buff to his 4. However, this video (https://gfycat.com/IlliterateBiodegradableBoaconstrictor) that you released explaining why his buff is being reconsidered does not have enough context for the community to understand what the problem is. The list of unknown information includes:

- How far away the enemies are in this clip. If the enemies were 4 tilesets away, I could understand the issue. However, there are a number of CC and Damage dealing frames that are able to lock down entire rooms already.

- What level the enemies are. Based on the video, the only information the community can gather is that the enemies are likely between LV 30-34 due to the video being in the Kuva Fortress, however, the video does not make this clear. We can only guess, and for all we know, the enemies could be LV 5 or LV 70. This would determine how much EHP the enemies have, and thus how difficult it is to down them with the ability.

- The build used. This is important as well, especially when combined with what level the enemies are. If volt is used his base 100% power strength, but is downing LV 75 enemies, I can understand how this may be concerning.

- The use of unlimited energy in the clip. It is difficult to gauge how energy intensive the build is if you are testing the ability is a state of free energy. If probably would have gotten the point across much easier if you showed Volt shutting down 3 tilesets in a LV 2 sortie or something to that effect.

I understand balancing his hard, and I can see that an attempt was made to be as transparent as possible, but the community needs more information so we can evaluate if the changes you are making are for the better.

[Nez-Kal]

We don't get to evaluate Unreleased product, as that's called being Entitled around here. What we do get to do is Whine and Complain when the product is released, forcing DE to take it back to the drawing board. (Though I do get where you're coming from with the post, yeah.)

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Tangent-Valley

[Tsukinoki]

18 minutes ago, Splazarus said:

How far away the enemies are in this clip. If the enemies were 4 tilesets away, I could understand the issue. However, there are a number of CC and Damage dealing frames that are able to lock down entire rooms already.

Please tell me another frame that without mods has a base range of 20 meters and a duration of 12 seconds of hard CC where the enemy is left helpless and unable to do anything.  All while ignorring LoS and dealing stupid high amounts of damage to grouped up enemies.

Most frames have some combination of below factors to balance out their abilities:
-Lower base range
-Lower duration
-Not "hard" cc (such as Nyx not utterly preventing enemies from doing anything under the influence of Chaos)
-Can't ignore LoS (such as Radial Blind or Prism)
-Can't deal damage ontop of all of the other effects
-Not infintely recastable without any delay what-so-ever

Discharge had literally zero balancing factors in what it would have been.

18 minutes ago, Splazarus said:

The build used. This is important as well, especially when combined with what level the enemies are. If volt is used his base 100% power strength, but is downing LV 75 enemies, I can understand how this may be concerning.

Build doesn't matter at all.

With the current volt without mods all it takes it 5 enemies near enough to each other to be affected by each others tesla effect and over 12 seconds would deal 42K damage if the damage wasn't capped.
That is a base level 30 volt without any mods what-so-ever.
The more enemies are close enough to each other the higher the damage.
And one of the upcomming changes was supposed to up this damage!  this makes the damage utterly stupid.

When it comes to Volt and the damage of his 4 it doesn't matter what build he has, just how many enemies there are.

Just removing the damage cap is one of the ways to gaurantee a stupidly broken frame.

So there is a reason that DE decided to back off of the volt change.
A hard CC effect with a base range of 20 meters and a base duration of 12 seconds that ignores LoS and can deal stupidly high damage over the entire duration that has no limits on recasting?  that's just a stupid level of broken.

I'm glad DE decided not to release that.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Slifar]

I agree that more context would be very nice, but in this particular case I feel like if someone sat down and thought about it this change could be seen as problematic from miles away.

The issue is that:

1) Discharge's damage scales close to (Or just is) exponentially, since each dude will take 750 damage/second for each other dude near him during those 4 seconds where the skill can't be broken. Since enemies tend to come out in bunches, this has the potential to do absurd amounts of overall damage. Just 5 enemies zapping each other would do  THREE THOUSAND DAMAGE A SECOND  to each one, leading to INSANE amounts of outgoing damage even from such a small group.

2) Four seconds is plenty of time to mitigate the energy lost from casting Discharge with certain builds. So as soon as it wears off... Cast it again! Especially since Volt Prime has a beefy 200 base energy pool.
3) Combine points 1 and 2 and you can effectively keep an entire room locked down for the entire lifetime of the vast majority of the enemies.

EDIT: This is also assuming they only removed the cap for the first 4 seconds, which was my understanding from the stream. If they removed it ENTIRELY.... Well, why would you ever take a frame other than Volt?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Slifar

[skippyang]

Volt is fine as is but the changes for volt should be:

 

Enable the possibility of stacking "Volt's Static Discharge" with team mate to run without holding a shield and using a mod.

Make "Transistor Shield" into a different mod where you can melee strike with out consuming an electric damage stack. 

 

The changes that I really would like to see for Volt is the ability to melee strike without using the stack of electricity damage while running. Along with the fiction of future updates that I won't have to use a syndicate mods to stack that electric damage while running around with a team mate who can pick up my shield whom is "willing" to channel and consume energy and stack electricity damage with me. 

[DirePresent]

1 hour ago, Slifar said:

I agree that more context would be very nice, but in this particular case I feel like if someone sat down and thought about it this change could be seen as problematic from miles away.

The issue is that:

1) Discharge's damage scales close to (Or just is) exponentially, since each dude will take 750 damage/second for each other dude near him during those 4 seconds where the skill can't be broken. Since enemies tend to come out in bunches, this has the potential to do absurd amounts of overall damage. Just 5 enemies zapping each other would do  THREE THOUSAND DAMAGE A SECOND  to each one, leading to INSANE amounts of outgoing damage even from such a small group.

2) Four seconds is plenty of time to mitigate the energy lost from casting Discharge with certain builds. So as soon as it wears off... Cast it again! Especially since Volt Prime has a beefy 200 base energy pool.
3) Combine points 1 and 2 and you can effectively keep an entire room locked down for the entire lifetime of the vast majority of the enemies.

EDIT: This is also assuming they only removed the cap for the first 4 seconds, which was my understanding from the stream. If they removed it ENTIRELY.... Well, why would you ever take a frame other than Volt?

Then maybe the error was putting the damage cap in the total damage and not in the individual one. were it to stack, let's say to give an example, 100 dps and then have damage mods to raise that cap (were you to get 200 extra percent damage, make it do 300 dps) if the numbers i said are too big then lower them. Add to this a limited duration and you have something that doesn't goes up to insane numbers.

[Slifar]

Just now, Alangme said:

Then maybe the error was putting the damage cap in the total damage and not in the individual one. were it to stack, let's say to give an example, 100 dps and then have damage mods to raise that cap (were you to get 200 extra percent damage, make it do 300 dps) if the numbers i said are too big then lower them. Add to this a limited duration and you have something that doesn't goes up to insane numbers.

That could be fair, yes! Unfortunately that wasn't the proposed change, hehe.

I've heard that apparently the issue was more just how awesome it became at CC coupled with the damage, but I cant give you a source on that and I'm not sure if it's true or not. So!

[DirePresent]

1 minute ago, Slifar said:

That could be fair, yes! Unfortunately that wasn't the proposed change, hehe.

I've heard that apparently the issue was more just how awesome it became at CC coupled with the damage, but I cant give you a source on that and I'm not sure if it's true or not. So!

I'm glad you liked it, maybe I'll make a post to see if others think the same :)

[SpacewalkerX]

3 hours ago, Slifar said:

I agree that more context would be very nice, but in this particular case I feel like if someone sat down and thought about it this change could be seen as problematic from miles away.

The issue is that:

1) Discharge's damage scales close to (Or just is) exponentially, since each dude will take 750 damage/second for each other dude near him during those 4 seconds where the skill can't be broken. Since enemies tend to come out in bunches, this has the potential to do absurd amounts of overall damage. Just 5 enemies zapping each other would do  THREE THOUSAND DAMAGE A SECOND  to each one, leading to INSANE amounts of outgoing damage even from such a small group.

2) Four seconds is plenty of time to mitigate the energy lost from casting Discharge with certain builds. So as soon as it wears off... Cast it again! Especially since Volt Prime has a beefy 200 base energy pool.
3) Combine points 1 and 2 and you can effectively keep an entire room locked down for the entire lifetime of the vast majority of the enemies.

EDIT: This is also assuming they only removed the cap for the first 4 seconds, which was my understanding from the stream. If they removed it ENTIRELY.... Well, why would you ever take a frame other than Volt?

if this is the kind of damage we are talking about then the clip they provided does a really bad job showing it

[ADirtyMonk]

4 hours ago, Splazarus said:

-snip-

Just wanted to say that in the simulacrum I got very similar results and numbers with these stats

resulting in these ability values

against lv 35 of these enemies (which is on the upper end for Kuva Fortress)

 

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me another frame that without mods has a base range of 20 meters and a duration of 12 seconds of hard CC where the enemy is left helpless and unable to do anything. 

Banshee, Rhino, Equinox, technically Zephyr, technically Mesa's 2.

 

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

All while ignorring LoS and dealing stupid high amounts of damage to grouped up enemies.

Your requirements are too strict. Volt doesnt do this either except to lv 40 and under enemies that die if you sneeze at them.

 

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Most frames have some combination of below factors to balance out their abilities:
-Lower base range
-Lower duration
-Not "hard" cc (such as Nyx not utterly preventing enemies from doing anything under the influence of Chaos)
-Can't ignore LoS (such as Radial Blind or Prism)
-Can't deal damage ontop of all of the other effects
-Not infintely recastable without any delay what-so-ever

And what has happened to those frames with this "balance"? They dont get used. I definitely havent seen a blind excal or prisim mirage in a long time. Nyx very, very seldomly. Meanwhile Mesa, Nidus, Octavia, Ivara, Chroma can run around and do Everything and they are a blast to play.

 

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

With the current volt without mods all it takes it 5 enemies near enough to each other to be affected by each others tesla effect and over 12 seconds would deal 42K damage if the damage wasn't capped.
That is a base level 30 volt without any mods what-so-ever.
The more enemies are close enough to each other the higher the damage.
And one of the upcomming changes was supposed to up this damage!  this makes the damage utterly stupid.

When it comes to Volt and the damage of his 4 it doesn't matter what build he has, just how many enemies there are.

Just removing the damage cap is one of the ways to gaurantee a stupidly broken frame.

So there is a reason that DE decided to back off of the volt change.
A hard CC effect with a base range of 20 meters and a base duration of 12 seconds that ignores LoS and can deal stupidly high damage over the entire duration that has no limits on recasting?  that's just a stupid level of broken.

I'm glad DE decided not to release that.

Oh My god. a whole 3.5k raw DPS. stop the presses. call the nerf squad STAT

With or without armor? Because I guarantee you discharge isnt hitting anywhere CLOSE to 3.5k dps even on closely grouped lv 80 lancers.

Do you have any idea how much damage a Nidus, Mesa, Chroma, Exalted weapon, Maiming strike weapon, Wukong, Ember can out put in a wide area? Why is volt an issue at all?

Warframe caters to a player power fantasy. This is not a tactical shooter or a strategy game or Dark Souls esq game. Players should be powerful and the "imba" (by your definition) warframes are some of the most fun to play while the "balanced" (by your definition) are much less so.

Discharge is absolutely not as strong as you make it out to be and definitely not while there are warframes out there that can do just as much or even more.

People like you are why we get retard changes like Gara's nerf and energy costs to Exalted Blade's innate blind. You cry too much too fast and I'd like to point out that Destiny 2 or Rainbow 6 Siege offers that tacticool strategic gameplay that may be more up your alley. Let the people who want to come home, turn off their brain and curbstomp pixels as metallic death gods have their stomping grounds.

Edited December 8, 2017 by ADirtyMonk

[peterc3]

The change was postponed because the entire map was being chain CC'd. It has nothing to do with the damage potential.

1 hour ago, ADirtyMonk said:

Oh My god. a whole 3.5k raw DPS. stop the presses. call the nerf squad STAT

With or without armor? Because I guarantee you discharge isnt hitting anywhere CLOSE to 3.5k dps even on closely grouped lv 80 lancers.

Do you have any idea how much damage a Nidus, Mesa, Chroma, Exalted weapon, Maiming strike weapon, Wukong, Ember can out put in a wide area? Why is volt an issue at all?

Warframe caters to a player power fantasy. This is not a tactical shooter or a strategy game or Dark Souls esq game. Players should be powerful and the "imba" (by your definition) warframes are some of the most fun to play while the "balanced" (by your definition) are much less so.

Discharge is absolutely not as strong as you make it out to be and definitely not while there are warframes out there that can do just as much or even more.

People like you are why we get retard changes like Gara's nerf and energy costs to Exalted Blade's innate blind. You cry too much too fast and I'd like to point out that Destiny 2 or Rainbow 6 Siege offers that tacticool strategic gameplay that may be more up your alley. Let the people who want to come home, turn off their brain and curbstomp pixels as metallic death gods have their stomping grounds.

If this is your reaction to any kind of actual thought being put into a change to a frame, then stop playing. Who exactly is the one crying in this scenario?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me another frame that without mods has a base range of 20 meters and a duration of 12 seconds of hard CC where the enemy is left helpless and unable to do anything.  All while ignorring LoS and dealing stupid high amounts of damage to grouped up enemies.

Most frames have some combination of below factors to balance out their abilities:
-Lower base range
-Lower duration
-Not "hard" cc (such as Nyx not utterly preventing enemies from doing anything under the influence of Chaos)
-Can't ignore LoS (such as Radial Blind or Prism)
-Can't deal damage ontop of all of the other effects
-Not infintely recastable without any delay what-so-ever

Discharge had literally zero balancing factors in what it would have been.

Build doesn't matter at all.

With the current volt without mods all it takes it 5 enemies near enough to each other to be affected by each others tesla effect and over 12 seconds would deal 42K damage if the damage wasn't capped.
That is a base level 30 volt without any mods what-so-ever.
The more enemies are close enough to each other the higher the damage.
And one of the upcomming changes was supposed to up this damage!  this makes the damage utterly stupid.

When it comes to Volt and the damage of his 4 it doesn't matter what build he has, just how many enemies there are.

Just removing the damage cap is one of the ways to gaurantee a stupidly broken frame.

So there is a reason that DE decided to back off of the volt change.
A hard CC effect with a base range of 20 meters and a base duration of 12 seconds that ignores LoS and can deal stupidly high damage over the entire duration that has no limits on recasting?  that's just a stupid level of broken.

I'm glad DE decided not to release that.

Nova?

Oh, i guess its not technically hard cc...

Other than that, i really have nothing else to say...your right, but when people were asking for the damage cap to be removed, i think (i hope) they also meant for the damage to be reduced to reasonable levels. Most seem to only want the stun, and see volt as a cc frame. Well, the only frames that are deemed worth playing seem to be cc frames... In most posts asking for damage cap removal, the common theme is "to hell with the damage". So for DE to increase damage or leave it untouched is entirely on their end. Of course its been said they dont want volt to be a cc frame, and neither do I, but damage frames are seen as pure evil, so what is he supposed to be?

Edited December 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[skippyang]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Nova?

Oh, i guess its not technically hard cc...

Other than that, i really have nothing else to say...your right, but when people were asking for the damage cap to be removed, i think (i hope) they also meant for the damage to be reduced to reasonable levels. Most seem to only want the stun, and see volt as a cc frame. Well, the only frames that are deemed worth playing seem to be cc frames... In most posts asking for damage cap removal, the common theme is "to hell with the damage". So for DE to increase damage or leave it untouched is entirely on their end. Of course its been said they dont want volt to be a cc frame, and neither do I, but damage frames are seen as pure evil, so what is he supposed to be?

A versatile warframe that can cc, shield, and damage depending on build.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I'm with @Slifar on this. While the Damage Cap on Volt was kind of the wrong way to handle the damage and CC potential of this cast, the cap was put in to prevent a Crowd Control ability that ignores line of sight from having incredibly high damage.

3 hours ago, ADirtyMonk said:

Oh My god. a whole 3.5k raw DPS. stop the presses. call the nerf squad STAT

While this guy has a point, you have to stop and consider where Warframe Damage abilities are on the scale of things.

There are several contenders for damage dealing 4th abilities, ones that can potentially ignore line of sight (Ash counts because after you tag an enemy you can leave direct line of sight).

See, the highest direct damage dealing 4th ability in game is, of course, Bladestorm. Able to do Finisher damage at max Strength of over 7400 per attack (that's 22k for all three marks) plus the Bleed damage on the attacks of 32,637 over 9 seconds (thanks to his passive stating that bleed procs last 50% longer and deal 25% more damage).

This is only matched by the *potential* damage of Tornado, which at max strength and duration (ends up at +178% Duration and +274% Strength) potentially deals (if you held an enemy the entire duration and stayed within 8m of the funnel) 28,430 damage of the damage type of your choice over 56 seconds, so could be modified to do 75% extra with the right damage type against the right enemy, which is 49,752 damage. It can also armour-strip in that time.

Compare that to the next contender, which is Saryn with Miasma, capping out at max strength and duration, plus the passive 300% bonus from having Toxin and Viral procs on the targets already, with a little over 17k Corrosive damage, which could be 29,750 against Grineer.

Next up? Frost's Avalanche with a cap of actual damage just over 5k.

Oberon with Reckoning and Mag with Crush between 4-5k.

And Stomp or Divine Spears wayyyy down with under 3k.

So compare this to the un-capped current Volt, who would deal 750 per second and CC everything in range during that time. Say the ability lasts 12 seconds. If, and I do say if, there were 5 enemies next to each other for that duration. 12 seconds of 3.5k damage is 42,000.

Previously the problem with capped Volt is that with this kind of damage you would need to go to high level just to make the ability last more than 2 seconds before the enemies just stopped zapping each other.

Under the new one, the base damage would deal 17,500 to a group of five enemies in the 4 seconds of guaranteed CC (ability damage, plus 4 ticks at one second intervals), and that's not limited. There can be three or four groups of enemies around, all getting the same or more. Add a single other enemy and that's 4k plus to all enemies per second with no Strength mods.

Maximised Strength on Volt would take the tick damage to 2797 damage per second per enemy. A group of 5 enemies creates 5 instances of that for 13,985 per second. Which is starting to get insane.

Neutral duration of 12 seconds? 181,805 damage. While hard CC is in place on those enemies. That's probably where the insanity of Volt's 4 was coming from in that .gif.

No ability that deals that much damage also has that much CC. Unless that 'damage' is 'effective health damage' by stripping armour. In terms of what this ability could do to a corridor full of enemies, all within range of four or five other units? This would be nuts.

Especially compared to the other casts in the same general category; the category where you press 4, watch the casting animation, and hit all enemies in range, even behind cover.

Would that be enough context for you @Splazarus?

[Tsukinoki]

6 hours ago, ADirtyMonk said:

Banshee, Rhino, Equinox, technically Zephyr, technically Mesa's 2.

Lets go over those shall we?

Banshees Quake requires:
-Constant channelling leaving you unable to gain energy or do anything else
-Ignores LoS
-Affects additional enemies that enter the area.
-Has a 20 meter range
-Lower damage per tick of a worst type of damage (blast is worse than electricity in a lot of situations)

Rhinos Stomp:
-25 meter range
-Recastable and doesn't lock you in one place
-Ignores LoS
-Doesn't affect any enemies that enter the area after you cast it
-Has a shorter duration

Equinox Sleep:
-50 meter range for initial target and then 5 meter radius around that target for 22 seconds.
-Doesn't deal damage
-Is recastable and doesn't lock you in place
-Requires LoS of initial target
-Doesn't affect any enemies that enter the area after you cast it
-Ends if the enemy is dealt too much damage.

Zephyr's Tornado:
-Completely uncontrollable, no guarantee of CCing the things you want
-Isn't recastable for its duration
-Is unreliable and may not last the full duration on an enemy if they are tossed out of it
-Doesn't require Los
-Doesn't lock you in place.
-Can affect additional enemies that enter the area, but again is uncontrollable and unrelaible

And Mesa's Shooting gallery doesn't even come close as it is:
-Unreliable as it hits random targets around you
-Has a short period of CC
-Affects very limited targets.

What about Octavia?
-Uncontrollable as the resonator will just move randomly, though it will try to stay somewhere near you (within 20ish meters...hopefully it isn't 20ish meters in the wrong direction)
-Only has a 15 meter range
-Is recastable but can only have 1 up at a time
-Doesn't require LoS
-Doesn't lock you in place.

What about Nidus's Larva?
-12 meter range
-7 second duration
-Doesn't affect any new enemies that enters the area
-Can't be recast while active

What about Blind/Prism?
-25 meter range
-15 second duration
-Doesn't affect any new enemies that enter the area
-Has a recast delay
-Requires LoS
-Enemies will still run around and throw grenades and similar so its closer to soft CC than hard CC.

Now lets compare that to Discharge if it didn't have a cap?
-Has a 20 meter base range, and can daisy-chain from electronics giving it a realistic 25 meter base range in the vast majority of tiles
-Provides hard cc that locks down all enemies in the area
-Provides hard cc against new enemies that enter the area
-Ignores LoS
-Is recastable
-Deals rather high scaling damage depending on how many enemies are near each other....and with how enemies in WF like to group up it becomes rather high.

Compared to all of the other abilities Discharge would be far and away better than all of them at locking down a massive range, not just the initial enemies he caught in his ability but any additional enemies that get into range.
Again: Most of the CC abilities in this game have some limiting factor that discharge simply doesn't.  It would have become a broken amount of CC and singlehandedly replaced most other CC frames in the game as they wouldn't be able to come close to its effects.
And it has large damage ontop of everything else.

The main reason that DE decided to hold back the discharge changes was because of its overpowered CC capability of being able to lock down large areas for long periods of time with just a single cast as it not only CCs the enemies originally in the area but also CCs enemies that come along later.
And Damage would get stupidly high, and I find it funny when you throw "level 80 lancers..." and other grineer enemeis like the majority of the player-base doesn't run those levels with corrosive projection meaning that yes, it would be dealing that amount of damage (or significantly more as DE was also going to raise its DPS) while also hard CCing those enemies and any other enemy that gets close.

And all of the numbers I provided are for a unmodded volt.  A well modded one would do considerably more.

EDIT:
As a follow up: I enjoy power fantasy games, its the reason I play warframe.
But there are still things that get stupidly broken and ruin the fun and enjoyment for everyone involved.

Remember when Blind/Prism ignored LoS and people complained about it being boring when they would lock down everything in 60 meters endlessly?  Because it turned the game into "Stand around waiting simulator 2015"
Or what about Mirage + Old Simulor?
Just removing Discharge without putting some balance on it would essentially be going back to those days, and everyone would start complaining because if there is a volt in the party why bother playing?  After all everything is going to be perma-stunned and no enemies are going to be able to get close to you so you can't do anything except sit there and wait for the mission to be over.

I enjoy power fantasies.  I don't enjoy letting a single ability utterly dominate the game to the point that it renders playing pointless and boring for everyone else in the group as there becomes literally nothing to do.

While having some slightly over powered abilities can be fun for the person in question, what about the rest of the squad and how it interracts with others?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Remember when Blind/Prism ignored LoS and people complained about it being boring when they would lock down everything in 60 meters endlessly?  Because it turned the game into "Stand around waiting simulator 2015"
Or what about Mirage + Old Simulor?

Remember how people are still constantly complaining about Star Chart mission runs with Ember?

That's a fairly good rundown there friend, far more detailed than mine, I'm impressed.

[Edzhang]

I prefer discharge still has some damage cap, but make it a bit higher, or lower the base damage, or even separate it from duration.. so at least we can still damage the enemies, but not too overpowered because we still have damage cap, and still can cc the enemies (reduce the base range/duration to balance it out will be acceptable)

[Azamagon]

Well, DE said they didn't want Volt to be CC... so why not fix that?

Some ideas:

Version 1)

• Discharge's wave now only briefly stuns the affected enemies (a la an Electric proc), while debuffing them with Discharge. Wave distance is affected by Ability Range.
• The debuff's default duration is X seconds, and is affected by Ability Duration.
• Enemies who are debuffed can move around (aside from the initial little stun), and they zap all their nearby enemies with X Electric damage. After 4 seconds, they start taking damage from their own Discharge-debuff too (like now). Zapping damage is affected by Ability Strength, and the zapping range is affected by Ability Range.
• Casting Shock on a Discharged enemy causes Shock to deal additional AoE damage and/or to chain over the Discharge-debuff to new enemies, if they are currently unaffected by Discharge.
• Electric Shields can be debuffed with Discharge (acting as zapping turrets, pretty much)

Version 2)

• Discharge's wave now only briefly stuns the affected enemies (a la an Electric proc), while debuffing them with Discharge. Wave distance is affected by Ability Duration.
• The debuff's default duration is X seconds, and is NOT affected by Ability Duration.
• Enemies who are debuffed can move around (aside from the initial little stun), and they zap all their nearby enemies with X Electric damage. After 4 seconds, they start taking damage from their own Discharge-debuff too (like now). Zapping damage is affected by Ability Strength, and the zapping range is affected by Ability Range.
• Casting Shock on a Discharged enemy causes Shock to deal additional AoE damage and/or to chain over the Discharge-debuff to new enemies, if they are currently unaffected by Discharge.
• Electric Shields can be debuffed with Discharge (acting as zapping turrets, pretty much)

Now he is all about dealing lots and lots of damage, and his CC plummets. Isn't this what DE wants, pretty much?