Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[Educated_Beast]

28 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

But your operator is still a child tho.

Hopefully he is to!

[Epicagemo]

Pro-tip: operators are good for survival/escaping. When in danger with a squish frame, press 5, crouch, and sneak away.

[StabbyTentacles]

21 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

The mechanic does what DE wanted it to do. It creates a progression path for players above the "warframe" level, which allows players to define their preferred role and maintain abilities in that role regardless of which equipment they use. It does not replace warframes, nor should it.

You are subjectively overrating "straightforward", misunderstanding the purpose of the mechanic as expressed by DE themselves, and pretending that your opinion is something other than opinion. You are not possessed of any unique insight into the "actuality" of the situation. You are not anything like objectively correct, and people are not wrong for disagreeing with you.

You are subjectively injecting you own unique/prejudice/predisposition 'insight.' You are not possessed of any unique insight into the "actuality" of the situation. Only that you support the situation, for whatever the reason.

Even if you fail to appreciate that I am objective/nonpartisan, and unbiased. Straightforward. To be straightforward. Is not subjective. It is being... Straightforward.

Objectively assessing which is more fun. In the Game Warframe. Which is more fun, enjoyable, satisfying?

Warframes?

Operators?

Gameplay being my aspect/range of evaluation here. And not story, nor apathy,boredom,disinterest with current warframe gameplay.

If DE launched operatorframe I, personally would never have given them a cent. let alone become a founder. 

21 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

The mechanic does what DE wanted it to do.

Perhaps, with invisibility and invulnerable states, operators are: the most brilliant instrument ever constructed in a video game? Or are they perhaps simply graceless gimmicks that take away, even break the game in some/many points? (Its not like we ever had Warframes with invisibility, and invulnerable states.)

9 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Moreover, Operators are not FUN. Warframes are FUN. They are sleek, agile and exciting to use. The operator is the same cumbersome, plodding movement found in every third person game ever made. If I wanted that, I could go play literally anything else. Why would I come here? 

9 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Moreover, I am FAR from the only person who thinks the operators are a clunky, nonsensical waste of time and money. Far from.

9 hours ago, P0Pz said:

Operator is cluncky AF.

Operators are a clunky, nonsensical waste of time and money.

The only genuine/objective argument for operators...

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Anyone who flat out refuses to use them or denies their utility, is simply doing themselves a disservice.

 

[StrawberryDevil]

I adore the operator.

 

I wish the hairstyles weren't horrible.    

 

But  I feel like nobody playtested Operator content with a low-end Operator.   Chains of Harrow's last encounter was a massive pain in the buns,  and how can anyone look at operator's beam and say "Yeah that looks fun and not at all a chore to use".      Who thinks it's a great idea to have a beam attack that lasts 2 seconds and takes 10+ to recharge.  It feels absolutely atrocious.

 

I love the idea of operator.  But I hate it's execution and overly massive investment required for it to stop feeling horrible.  

 

Oh!  And the animations are terrible.   I don't like having an amp equipped because of the dumb animation you have when you have one equipped as opposed to the neutral stance and normal walking.  When using an amp it feels like the animations are cut out of some crappy G-Mod type skit with screwed up models and lanky stretchy long limbs.

Edited January 13, 2018 by StrawberryDevil

[GinKenshin]

8 hours ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

But your operator is still a child tho.

“Don’t call me that!” XD 

 

1- they never stated their age 

 

2- to me, they look 15-18, and that isn’t a child, that’s an adult, imo anyway 

[Fallen_Echo]

31 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

to me, they look 15-18, and that isn’t a child, that’s an adult, imo anyway 

All they need to do is to add body sliders for them so we can make them look like what we actually like to see them.

I have a female operator, but she is as femine as a rusty bucket, if they wouldnt have voice packs i couldnt tell her gender despite trying to make her as girly as i can.

Some people want them to be swole, taller, girly, busty whatever but they are stuck with this clone apparance. 

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

I dislike them, but I'm over it. I really preferred the notion that my frame represented me, not some middle man.

 

I just kinda hope at some point we get some option to reclaim the frame as ourselves and "detach" it from the operator (or don't if you prefer to keep it the way it is). The operator I'd be totally fine with if they were presented as like... A person we cooperated with, but I've never been a fan of the notion that they took "me" from my frame and told me I was the operator who in turn was the frame.

[Futurehero]

Edited my OP,  added my follow up posts there for more visibility.

[(XBOX)huhsaywhat]

Agreed, 12 frames owned no problems running with any of them. The operator is a interesting mechanic to play with. My favorite one is to void dash through a group of enemies and watch them pile up when when I stop, transfer my warframe and hit some finishers and kill the ones recovering. Void mode can set up some ambushes for a quick stealth approach, sneak in and transfer your frame to kill everyone quickly. Its a bit pointless when you know how you like to play a mission but the operator has potential to be a good addition to your play style. I use them mainly as a passive or defensive role, the focus buffs are also useful when set up right for you. I agree they could use more functionality in missions, when they said weapons for operators I thought cool I can run around with Twin Grakatas or Lex but just Amps. Still cool still fun but it needs an upgrade for sure.

[StabbyTentacles]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

I dislike them, but I'm over it. I really preferred the notion that my frame represented me, not some middle man.

 

I just kinda hope at some point we get some option to reclaim the frame as ourselves and "detach" it from the operator (or don't if you prefer to keep it the way it is). The operator I'd be totally fine with if they were presented as like... A person we cooperated with, but I've never been a fan of the notion that they took "me" from my frame and told me I was the operator who in turn was the frame.

Agreed.

I like the way you presented this idea. 

As a game DE could of, and can, allow player's the option. 

Perhaps one of many.

Choice isn’t just about how many options you’re given, (or not given in this case) but the results of those options.

If DE wanted to make the player feel included, like he/she actually had some kind of choice, DE would do that through the core gameplay. The option to take it or leave it is what makes a game enjoyable to play, and in fact what makes it a game to begin with. At it's core, every game is a series of challenges for the player to progress through. Without the freedom to make real decisions, the game is boring and can barely even be considered a game. If a game takes too much control away from the player than it’s nothing more than a glorified set of scripted events.

[Twilight053]

I don't know why, but everytime I see anti-operator people being proven wrong, they always seem to either: 1) shirk out, or 2) resorts to ad hominiem, 3) elitism in general.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Twilight053

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

I don't know why, but everytime I see anti-operator people being proven wrong, they always seem to either: 1) shirk out, or 2) resorts to ad hominiem, 3) elitism in general.

That's odd, since we've never been proven wrong.

Also, kind of funny how you pro Operator people are so quick to cite "that's your OPINION" and then claim to have proven us wrong despite that.

It's a big reason why we cannot have a real discussion on the matter. Dubious white knighting and claims that you can "prove wrong" subjective opinions continue to override common sense.

[Fallen_Echo]

6 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

I don't know why, but everytime I see anti-operator people being proven wrong, they always seem to either: 1) shirk out, or 2) resorts to ad hominiem, 3) elitism in general.

Heres a quick list of operator problems:

1. Almost non-existant fashion customization compared to warframes
2. Almost non-existant survivability and useability customization compared to warframes
3. Voice lines are unbearable, the fact that you can turn them off does not excuse the original state
4. Generally bad animations on them
5. They are relevant for a few niche/forced uses only
6. Mind numbbing grind tied to the only way to make them capatable of surviving
7. Their starting stats are extremely low to be useable
8. Their combat capatibility is questionable at best and tied to insane grind too

The main problem with creating a list like the upper is that anybody can dismiss any legit concers by just saying " Well, thats your OPINION." and with this point the argument stops.

Its essentially the same as coming up claiming that X weapon is OP while ignoring that he has a godlike riven for it and it takes 2 shots to eradicate a lv200 bombard. No matter how valid counterpoints you come up, the other side already decided that the weapon is the problem in their opinion and every other claim is nothing more than wrong opinions.

[Gamma745]

11 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Heres a quick list of operator problems:

Okay, let's try to answer your problems in a more thoughtful manner then.

12 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Almost non-existant fashion customization compared to warframes

This essentially asking for 'more Operator cosmetic'. Nothing wrong with that, and might please more people. But DE would need more time to make more asset, so the solutions are to wait and/or giving them suggestion on what we would like to see. I mean, you know how bare-bone Warframe cosmetics in the early days, right?

 

16 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Almost non-existant survivability and useability customization compared to warframes

The Focus waybounds and Quill Arcanes are supposed to be the way to customize them, though I wouldn't say no for more options. The means of getting them, I'll say it on point 6.

 

18 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Voice lines are unbearable, the fact that you can turn them off does not excuse the original state

Some people have said the same sentiment, and I can't argue with that (I've been silencing them since Second Dream dropped, so I have no place to judge). Personally, I'm just wondering what does DE intend to do with making them like this, what kind of story they want to give and make with this design. Sorry that I can't offer any solution.

 

22 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Generally bad animations on them

Well, do you have any suggestion on how a child, that have practically spent what is untold decades or perhaps centuries in stasis and just started to move recently, should move? I don't mean this in a sarcastic tone. I'm genuinely curious. Maybe you do have better ideas.

 

25 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. They are relevant for a few niche/forced uses only

Well, it is just the beginning of their development. Although, I am curious with what you're asking here. Do you actually want them to stand on par, side-by-side with our Warframe?

 

36 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Mind numbbing grind tied to the only way to make them capatable of surviving

No arguments here. I'm on the mind that Focus (and maybe Quills items) should be made obtainable in a more 'casual' manner. I'll hold my judgement until the second half of Focus 2.5 drop, though.

 

38 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Their starting stats are extremely low to be useable

So is most of our un-modded Warframes. Un-modded, our Warframes can probably take on up to level 30 enemies. And I found that just by visiting the Quills to get our starter Amp, the Operator can probably take on that level range as well. Okay, maybe lower, but again, do you really want the Operator to stand on par with our Warframe?

 

44 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Their combat capatibility is questionable at best and tied to insane grind too

Questionable, perhaps. Our crafted Amp can take down level 30-40 enemies with a few shots, and I found that quite impressive for what is essentially an un-modded weapon. And that if the enemies have armor. Level 30 Corpus and Infested enemies can probably be one-shot by most of our crafted Amp.

I already said my mind about the grind, though.

[Mach25]

32 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

...The main problem with creating a list like the upper is that anybody can dismiss any legit concerns by just saying " Well, thats your OPINION." and with this point the argument stops...

Yes, and their beliefs are their opinions as well, so those individuals should be noted as being satisfied with current conditions and the discussion continues without them. Yes, they have the right to them but the discussion should continue by those dissatisfied with current conditions - these are forums, where ideas are exchanged and various viewpoints are to be taken into consideration to make a more enjoyable game by the masses, not any particular individual or group of individuals on a website. Nothing man sets his mind to do in life is done without opinion playing into the mix somewhere.

[Airwolfen]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

That's odd, since we've never been proven wrong.

Also, kind of funny how you pro Operator people are so quick to cite "that's your OPINION" and then claim to have proven us wrong despite that.

It's a big reason why we cannot have a real discussion on the matter. Dubious white knighting and claims that you can "prove wrong" subjective opinions continue to override common sense.

said by the -my opinion is a fact- person.

If you think people are just "white knighting" and use that thought to refute everything they say then OF COURSE nobody CAN prove you wrong in your head.

THAT is what makes discussions impossible.

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Heres a quick list of operator problems:

1. Almost non-existant fashion customization compared to warframes
2. Almost non-existant survivability and useability customization compared to warframes
3. Voice lines are unbearable, the fact that you can turn them off does not excuse the original state
4. Generally bad animations on them
5. They are relevant for a few niche/forced uses only
6. Mind numbbing grind tied to the only way to make them capatable of surviving
7. Their starting stats are extremely low to be useable
8. Their combat capatibility is questionable at best and tied to insane grind too

The main problem with creating a list like the upper is that anybody can dismiss any legit concers by just saying " Well, thats your OPINION." and with this point the argument stops.

Its essentially the same as coming up claiming that X weapon is OP while ignoring that he has a godlike riven for it and it takes 2 shots to eradicate a lv200 bombard. No matter how valid counterpoints you come up, the other side already decided that the weapon is the problem in their opinion and every other claim is nothing more than wrong opinions.

Phew, first calm down a bit...

Ok. Yup, I agree. All those points are valid, those are also not the things you see people deny. Like people do not say that the grind is good in any way, you will see people agree mostly that the grind is indeed a multi week wall. But that does not mean that people cant enjoy operators in the current state even with those problems.

If the system is allowed to grow like warframes have over time then we can genuinely have an amazing system on our hands, Its just that the general way to "fix" it is by removing the operator entirely and in some way that would be better for the game (that part is an opinion as it depends on how you play and interact with the game).

I'll take you back to the past for a bit. Update 7. what did we have at the time. (not directly related to your points, nor in order)

1. Operator cosmetics were limited to color palettes only. bad ones. Back then all colors were like the option "legacy palettes" enabled. low saturation gray like tones. No armor, no syandanas. We had emblems though, yay. Sentinels actually had way more cosmetics then warframes had. they had a total of TWO whole accessory packs.
2. warframe skills were actually part of the mod setup, meaning that if you wanted all 4 skills you were out of luck in most cases. Nekros had a very expensive path allowing him to only have desecrate on for example
3. warframes were painfully slow if not coptering. forget using slow melee weapons btw. dual zoren ruled supreme
4. stamina... mellee attack? stamina. block? stamina. run? stamina. just ran and want to block or melee? oops.... dead.
5. melee in general, actually useless in most cases.

And i can go on and on about things we didn't have back then that we have now. And operators ate this point remind me of warframes back then. They need time. not denial of existence with the only true points given, they are useless, remove them. That is irrational thinking. That is letting your general dislike of something rule over proper judgment.

Because as I said before. if we used that same logic in the past to just throw out innovative things then this game would have been long dead. That, sadly, I dare state as a fact.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Airwolfen

[MystMan]

18 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1. Almost non-existant fashion customization compared to warframes
2. Almost non-existant survivability and useability customization compared to warframes
3. Voice lines are unbearable, the fact that you can turn them off does not excuse the original state
4. Generally bad animations on them
5. They are relevant for a few niche/forced uses only
6. Mind numbbing grind tied to the only way to make them capatable of surviving
7. Their starting stats are extremely low to be useable
8. Their combat capatibility is questionable at best and tied to insane grind too

1. "almost non-existant".   Hyperboles don't help.  There are enough variations of clothes/facial choice combinations for us to personalize our operators. And speaking of "compared to warframes"....
2. why compare them to warframes to begin with?  They were never meant to be equal. Just like our sentinel/pets are supportive, yet we don't dismiss them.
3. This is hardly a major issue to complain about. People mute Ordis and move on without making a big deal out of it.
4. Everybody's opinions will vary here.
5. and this is a bad thing?  Wouldn't those who dislike operators exactly prefer that they are used as little as possible? 
6-8: just like our frames when we all started. We had to grind and die a lot for a long time for mods, resources and cores/endo to get better gear and grow more powerful while gaining experience becoming better at the game. None of us became a walking engine of destruction in just a month of playing, we've all been grinding since the beginning. Once you grind and craft better amps and operator arcanes, your operator becomes quite durable and powerful as a temporary controllable support unit. At the start, they key to make our weak operators useful is to dash and go in void mode repeatedly to stay alive. The void dash alone is a great room sweeper.

I've been patiently and moderately doing the grind since focus 1.0, didn't complain about this "mind numbing grind", since that is what we have all been doing since forever. (I have played some terrible grind games out there that truly define the word "mind numbing". Warframe is a stroll through the park in comparison).
 And now I have unlocked and maxed all the schools. I don't play the game with the intent to use the operator as much as possible. He is now simply extremely useful when an unexpected situation/problem requires his presence to solve it where a warframe otherwise wouldn't have been as effective.

Like other posts have mentioned, the operators bring a breath of fresh air to the gameplay we've been using for 4+ years. A game dev has to bring something different and new to the table to prevent their game from going stale. It may not always be a success (trials, conclave) but as long as they keep pumping out new content and changes, it keeps the game fresh regardless. The alternative is the game would simply fade away in memory.

Changes always bring criticism, that's a given. It helps when that criticism is backed up with suggestions trying to steer it in a limited direction you'd be comfortable with rather than "I hate it, everybody else is wrong, remove it" comments. That obviously ain't gonna happen, nobody removes content that cost I-don't-know how much money & time.

[QueenKharn]

I quite enjoy the fact that out characters are actually #*($%%@ up, mutated, scarred, millennia old child soldiers from a dead empire we destroyed.

Edited January 14, 2018 by KokoroWish

[BlackCoMerc]

50 minutes ago, KokoroWish said:

I quite enjoy the fact that out characters are actually #*($%%@ up, mutated, scarred, millennia old child soldiers from a dead empire we destroyed.

Except that nothing they say or do actually indicates that they are anything more than naive teens new to the universe, in way over their heads and out of sorts.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

1 hour ago, Gamma745 said:

Questionable, perhaps. Our crafted Amp can take down level 30-40 enemies with a few shots, and I found that quite impressive for what is essentially an un-modded weapon. And that if the enemies have armor. Level 30 Corpus and Infested enemies can probably be one-shot by most of our crafted Amp.

But you can't mod the Amp, and you already have a Warframe with a gun that melts level 30-40 enemies...

I like the operator character/story well enough, just don't want to fight with them. Floating chest beam operator was better and made more sense to me. While playing as the operator it's not just the frame parkour I miss, but radar and vacuum too!

I get that some want different ways to play and I'd be all for that if it was done well and sensibly integrated, but it's not. Sure it's mostly optional if you want to ignore most of the newest content, but that just leaves me with less reason to play and less reason to be excited about new eidolons, the next open area, etc.

Maybe when consoles get the controller fix for transference, I'll despise switching to the operator for energy less, but I'll still think it's awkward and silly.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

1. This essentially asking for 'more Operator cosmetic'. Nothing wrong with that, and might please more people. But DE would need more time to make more asset, so the solutions are to wait and/or giving them suggestion on what we would like to see. I mean, you know how bare-bone Warframe cosmetics in the early days, right?
2. The Focus waybounds and Quill Arcanes are supposed to be the way to customize them, though I wouldn't say no for more options. The means of getting them, I'll say it on point 6.
3. Some people have said the same sentiment, and I can't argue with that (I've been silencing them since Second Dream dropped, so I have no place to judge). Personally, I'm just wondering what does DE intend to do with making them like this, what kind of story they want to give and make with this design. Sorry that I can't offer any solution.
4. Well, do you have any suggestion on how a child, that have practically spent what is untold decades or perhaps centuries in stasis and just started to move recently, should move? I don't mean this in a sarcastic tone. I'm genuinely curious. Maybe you do have better ideas.
5. Well, it is just the beginning of their development. Although, I am curious with what you're asking here. Do you actually want them to stand on par, side-by-side with our Warframe?
6. No arguments here. I'm on the mind that Focus (and maybe Quills items) should be made obtainable in a more 'casual' manner. I'll hold my judgement until the second half of Focus 2.5 drop, though.
7. So is most of our un-modded Warframes. Un-modded, our Warframes can probably take on up to level 30 enemies. And I found that just by visiting the Quills to get our starter Amp, the Operator can probably take on that level range as well. Okay, maybe lower, but again, do you really want the Operator to stand on par with our Warframe?
8. Questionable, perhaps. Our crafted Amp can take down level 30-40 enemies with a few shots, and I found that quite impressive for what is essentially an un-modded weapon. And that if the enemies have armor. Level 30 Corpus and Infested enemies can probably be one-shot by most of our crafted Amp.I already said my mind about the grind, though.

1- Okay my main problem here was that DE knows the ongoing joke "fashionframe is endgame" and how important fashion is. The PoE update literally brought us 3 new armors and thats all. (if i remember right) I believe it shouldnt take this much time to come up with a new armor set or reduce the size of our syndanas to make them useable on operators.

2- The arcanes are true but they are mostly limited to usage, just like how they are on warframes. You unlock the best and thats all, as for the focus waybounds they are not customization options but a simple-line upgrade path. You cant really go and say that you dont need X because you prefer Y here, you either upgrade or not.

3- I could but that would require DE to hire more professional voice actors and make actual customizeable voice interface. Thats not gonna happen because its expensive as hell.

4- Actually we dont really know how the stasis system worked, if its the same as limbo's they shouldnt have any problems with moving. Im not sure where i read it but the problem is that they use resized warframe movement sets. All they need is a small storyline where they learn to manipulate void energy into their body to heal up and its done.

5- I hoped them to by on par with warframes, because they use the same combat platform they must perform equally and in an unique way. I hoped that they will upgrade the focus tree in a way to apply those to them for various unique effects and not as copy-paste less useable wf powers.

6- I dont really think the other half will ever reach us.

7- See point 5.

8- We no longer consider lv40 enviroment challanging or anything. The game to many of us have gone to the stage where lv100 is the playzone where one can really use their weapons to their fullest.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Mach25 said:

Yes, and their beliefs are their opinions as well, so those individuals should be noted as being satisfied with current conditions and the discussion continues without them. Yes, they have the right to them but the discussion should continue by those dissatisfied with current conditions - these are forums, where ideas are exchanged and various viewpoints are to be taken into consideration to make a more enjoyable game by the masses, not any particular individual or group of individuals on a website. Nothing man sets his mind to do in life is done without opinion playing into the mix somewhere.

Just what i thinked about, these here are only opinions but the problem is when you use opinions as impenetrable shields and not changeable ideas.

 

2 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

Phew, first calm down a bit...

Ok. Yup, I agree. All those points are valid, those are also not the things you see people deny. Like people do not say that the grind is good in any way, you will see people agree mostly that the grind is indeed a multi week wall. But that does not mean that people cant enjoy operators in the current state even with those problems.

If the system is allowed to grow like warframes have over time then we can genuinely have an amazing system on our hands, Its just that the general way to "fix" it is by removing the operator entirely and in some way that would be better for the game (that part is an opinion as it depends on how you play and interact with the game).

I'll take you back to the past for a bit. Update 7. what did we have at the time. (not directly related to your points, nor in order)

1. Operator cosmetics were limited to color palettes only. bad ones. Back then all colors were like the option "legacy palettes" enabled. low saturation gray like tones. No armor, no syandanas. We had emblems though, yay. Sentinels actually had way more cosmetics then warframes had. they had a total of TWO whole accessory packs.
2. warframe skills were actually part of the mod setup, meaning that if you wanted all 4 skills you were out of luck in most cases. Nekros had a very expensive path allowing him to only have desecrate on for example
3. warframes were painfully slow if not coptering. forget using slow melee weapons btw. dual zoren ruled supreme
4. stamina... mellee attack? stamina. block? stamina. run? stamina. just ran and want to block or melee? oops.... dead.
5. melee in general, actually useless in most cases.

And i can go on and on about things we didn't have back then that we have now. And operators ate this point remind me of warframes back then. They need time. not denial of existence with the only true points given, they are useless, remove them. That is irrational thinking. That is letting your general dislike of something rule over proper judgment.

Because as I said before. if we used that same logic in the past to just throw out innovative things then this game would have been long dead. That, sadly, I dare state as a fact.

I know its a system what needs to grow, but i expected DE to use up past experiences and dont create something what to some people feels like a "demo" variant of the current game.

Im actually fine with operators i just want these points adressed as priority content and not pushed back and back till they get forgotten as many other mechanics we have.

2 hours ago, MystMan said:

1. "almost non-existant".   Hyperboles don't help.  There are enough variations of clothes/facial choice combinations for us to personalize our operators. And speaking of "compared to warframes"....
2. why compare them to warframes to begin with?  They were never meant to be equal. Just like our sentinel/pets are supportive, yet we don't dismiss them.
3. This is hardly a major issue to complain about. People mute Ordis and move on without making a big deal out of it.
4. Everybody's opinions will vary here.
5. and this is a bad thing?  Wouldn't those who dislike operators exactly prefer that they are used as little as possible? 
6-8: just like our frames when we all started. We had to grind and die a lot for a long time for mods, resources and cores/endo to get better gear and grow more powerful while gaining experience becoming better at the game. None of us became a walking engine of destruction in just a month of playing, we've all been grinding since the beginning. Once you grind and craft better amps and operator arcanes, your operator becomes quite durable and powerful as a temporary controllable support unit. At the start, they key to make our weak operators useful is to dash and go in void mode repeatedly to stay alive. The void dash alone is a great room sweeper.

I've been patiently and moderately doing the grind since focus 1.0, didn't complain about this "mind numbing grind", since that is what we have all been doing since forever. (I have played some terrible grind games out there that truly define the word "mind numbing". Warframe is a stroll through the park in comparison).
 And now I have unlocked and maxed all the schools. I don't play the game with the intent to use the operator as much as possible. He is now simply extremely useful when an unexpected situation/problem requires his presence to solve it where a warframe otherwise wouldn't have been as effective.

Like other posts have mentioned, the operators bring a breath of fresh air to the gameplay we've been using for 4+ years. A game dev has to bring something different and new to the table to prevent their game from going stale. It may not always be a success (trials, conclave) but as long as they keep pumping out new content and changes, it keeps the game fresh regardless. The alternative is the game would simply fade away in memory.

Changes always bring criticism, that's a given. It helps when that criticism is backed up with suggestions trying to steer it in a limited direction you'd be comfortable with rather than "I hate it, everybody else is wrong, remove it" comments. That obviously ain't gonna happen, nobody removes content that cost I-don't-know how much money & time.

1- Okay then let me rphrase it. Compared to every warframe we have they have severly limited amount of items to make them truely unique.

2- Because they use the same combat platform as player controlled faction. Also we never get the clarification that they are not meant to be equal partners but just subordinates.

3- There were discussions about ordis too, it was an issue too. Just like you can see threads every month complaining about the lotus too.

4- Agree

5- For niche i dont think its really bad but i want operators to be equals so yes. For the forced ones they are really bad.

6-8- Ofcourse we started out as weaklings too, but even then some of our frames are working really well without many mods, same is true for some weapons (not necessearly talking about the meta). The main problem in my opinion is that at the end of the grind you are left with a "temporary support unit" and not something what is an equally useable combat operative.

[Twilight053]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Heres a quick list of operator problems:

1. Almost non-existant fashion customization compared to warframes
2. Almost non-existant survivability and useability customization compared to warframes
3. Voice lines are unbearable, the fact that you can turn them off does not excuse the original state
4. Generally bad animations on them
5. They are relevant for a few niche/forced uses only
6. Mind numbbing grind tied to the only way to make them capatable of surviving
7. Their starting stats are extremely low to be useable
8. Their combat capatibility is questionable at best and tied to insane grind too

The main problem with creating a list like the upper is that anybody can dismiss any legit concers by just saying " Well, thats your OPINION." and with this point the argument stops.

Its essentially the same as coming up claiming that X weapon is OP while ignoring that he has a godlike riven for it and it takes 2 shots to eradicate a lv200 bombard. No matter how valid counterpoints you come up, the other side already decided that the weapon is the problem in their opinion and every other claim is nothing more than wrong opinions.

And a here's quick list of why operators aren't as bad as doomsdayers say. Discounting forced usage (Kuva+Eidolon, they actually suck and I agree), they are actually very versatile:

1. Void Revive
2. Void Hack
3. Stealth in general, for use with non-spy frames
4. Escaping certain death with Void Mode
5. Slash/Toxin status cancelling
6. Lenz suicide cancelling 
7. And all of the above is not niche, all of these are revelant and can be used in every part of the game: From Starchart to Level 9999. From Grineer to Orokin. From Exterminate to Endless.

And here is some of the arguably niche, yet still a valuable use out of them:

1. Doubled efficiency for hardcore LoR and JV speedrunners (Warframes step on a pad while Operator hacks)
2. Survivability in some cases, like Kela Rockets and Eidolon Teralyst
3. Doesn't cancel out the Warframe's stealth multiplier

While I agree Operators have some glaring problems, like forced Kuva missions, there are also good things about them. They have certain benefit that makes me want to use them (not forced, mind you), like Void Revive, Slash/Toxin Cancel or Lenz Suicide Canceling. But what makes these so different than Kuva Siphons? They don't cancel out Warframe gameplays like Kuva Guardians does, they augment it. These are good design. Something like the dreaded Kuva Guardians? I want to see them removed or fixed.

I agree with your last point, though.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Twilight053

[DatDarkOne]

All I have to say in regards to this topic is that my Operator Fashion is Awesome.  :P

Edited January 15, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[blacklusterseph]

2 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

They have certain benefit that makes me want to use them (not forced, mind you), like Void Revive, Slash/Toxin Cancel or Lenz Suicide Canceling. But what makes these so different than Kuva Siphons? They don't cancel out Warframe gameplays like Kuva Guardians does, they augment it.

It may be a disconnect in semantics but unfotunately the common thread in the scenarios you've listed is one of the main reasons Operators draw so much criticism from a gameplay standpoint. In performing a revive/hack/death dodge with your Operator, you are essentially identifying a situation where, for whatever reason, you cannot perform the task with your warframe, so you press a button to stop playing your warframe, and switch to your Operator. From there you then activate an invincibility state to complete the task.

Essentially the game did not allow you a skill or build based option to complete the task, you had to resort to an invicibility state that exisits apart from your warframe (in that your warframe has no effect on its performance). That's why the word 'replace' is used so often. If the Operator augmented your warframe, then it would be doing something to allow your waframe to complete the task (be it hack, revive or survive).

I'm not saying that there is something wrong with players using the Operators to do said tasks, but those scenarios aren't sweeping endorsements of Operator gameplay either as I think people have very valid concerns about what it means for the design/balance of the game going forward. Treating that pattern as ok is I think how you end up with Kuva Guardian-like enemies elsewhere in the game, which are so broken from a scaling or mechanic perspective, but since the OP Operator is there, it gets considered as 'balanced' since we have something that supposedly deals with it.

Edited January 14, 2018 by blacklusterseph