When was the last time DE finished content?

[Fallen_Echo]

Today as i was browsing the warframe reddit i came across a post about the good old times and how much we came forward. Heres a link if anybody is interested.

As i was reading throught it, i started to wonder when was the last time i felt like DE actually finished an update. Not just stopped working on it but actually marked as finished content what works as intented and have everything polished just as they wanted it.

I cant remember when i joined the game exactly, it was before operation rathuum but after Nezha has been introduced.

The last update where i felt that DE given us finished and polished content and stopped working on it because they felt it was complete was Update 20 for me with octavia and her quest but even before it we have tons of half-finished content left to rot.

Archwing feels disconnected from the game, the channeling system is useless, kubrows and kavats have horrifying pathing and AI issues and the list goes on.

Cetus still feels like some devbuild test map with issues what would be okay on some chinese copy-paste game but not here. Some examples like there is a butcher there slicing air and some cooking "hut" where the hanging hams are constantly bended by the wind. Its looks horrible and every time some new player looks at these they think "How can something this basic is not fixed yet?" and this is the PoE update what we were hyped up lets not talk about the earh extraction animation what (if i know right) is still misaligned.

There are lots of problems with PoE and DE already started to say they are working on the next "open world" map.

Can we slow down a bit? I know new content is good and all but we are building a jenga tower here on the top of a flaming card tower. It cant be that hard to take a bit of break from big ambitious plans and work on old systems while a smaller part of the team makes new wraith/vandal/prisma weapons and such. A bit of stat modifying applying a skin on a weapon and you got a new weapon to keep the players busy while you are attempting to take out the fire and reinforce that card tower.

Making some new syndicate mods too shouldnt be too hard and everyone likes to try out new things, for example making the nightwatch napalm mod into a sindicate mod to work on the azima projectile would be something a lot of would mess with and while we are at it you can go and make that jenga tower stable.

All i ask for is to make sure the base is good enough for building before starting the actual building, we dont need more systems what are only decrease our hardware space.

What do you guys think, how about a bit of slow down on the totally new ideas and getting some work on old systems sounds?

 

[(PSN)SageHeed]

"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci (maybe)

[peq42]

They shouldn't slow down. In my opinion a bigger dev team is necessary since a long time ago.

 

Look at another indie game, called Path of Exile. Every few months there are LOTS of new things(new maps, new bosses, new items, reworks on items, Races, random events, balance, etc etc etc). And yet, they don't leave lots of bugs, visual problems,etc behind(And NO. It doesn't have a rich company behind. It's INDIE. With only a sinlge game, which is FREE, no sold items, only skins).

 

I wonder why DE can't do the same, having a 5x more popular game, in which many things are sold by real money.

Edited January 23, 2018 by elpeleq42

[Senketsu_]

4 minutes ago, elpeleq42 said:

They shouldn't slow down. In my opinion a bigger dev team is necessary since a long time ago.

 

Look at another indie game, called Path of Exile. Every few months there are LOTS of new things(new maps, new bosses, new items, reworks on items, Races, random events, balance, etc etc etc). And yet, they don't leave lots of bugs, visual problems,etc behind(And NO. It doesn't have a rich company behind. It's INDIE. With only a sinlge game, which is FREE, no sold items, only skins).

 

I wonder why DE can't do the same, having a 5x more popular game, in which many things are sold by real money.

it could be the engine, or the code. The code for Warframe is about 5-6 years old and they are still adding to it, so with code that old something is bound to get jumbled up when adding new things to it.

[artemisfortune]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci (maybe)

Games are art, but they're also products where players are also the customers, and this isn't a finished product. You don't see a painter charging people periodically as he paints his picture, do you?

I agree with OP, the amount of money that DE has made vs the amount of expanding they've done is grossly disproportionate. We have broken raids, parkour that doesn't work on most of our maps, a barebones open world that very few people asked for, Archwing still is in disarray, conclave and lunaro both exist but are shells of what they could be. DE needs to step it up instead of trying to hop onto latest trends for no real reason. I wouldn't be surprised if they're working up some pointless battle royale mode because it's popular.

it could be the engine, or the code. The code for Warframe is about 5-6 years old and they are still adding to it, so with code that old something is bound to get jumbled up when adding new things to it.

Then you refactor it. Plenty of other games succeed in doing this, why can't Warframe? Why can't DE hire some new devs, new artist? The game has grown but DE as a company has not.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Pent_

[KennBone]

and if u guys stop for new things they can do " finishers " faster ? common most of games y played got finish content yes .. but what kind of content ? poor and limited .. thats easy.. WF still in other lvl. let them work

[(PSN)SageHeed]

5 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

Games are art, but they're also products where players are also the customers, and this isn't a finished product. You don't see a painter charging people periodically as he paints his picture, do you?

Indeed painters like Leonardo da Vinci were payed periodically as they worked on commissions. And yes, Warframe isn't a finished product. It's not supposed to be. It's a work in progress that develops over time and that is part of what makes it interesting. Destiny is a finished product.

[SnuggleBuckets]

You phrase the topic like it has been many years since any "finished" content was seen, as opposed to some mythical "good old days".
That update 20? Start of last year, so less than a year ago.
And Digital Extremes have had a long history of trying out new things, experimenting, but not really building upon that for awhile, until perhaps much later.
And in the end, your topic turns to a wider appeal for returning devtime focus to older content you feel they didn't finish a long time ago like Archwings, channelling and pets.
So again your title is misleading even to your own topics intention, since it implies that the devs haven't finished content now in a while, but you talk about older foundations that haven't still been finished, that need a touch up.

[Ahcruna]

13 minutes ago, Senketsu_ said:

it could be the engine, or the code. The code for Warframe is about 5-6 years old and they are still adding to it, so with code that old something is bound to get jumbled up when adding new things to it.

You can't really compare them either, two different types of games. PoE has been developed for around 11 years though.
that's a great deal of time to just get the fundament of the engine going so that you can just start adding stuff without hassle.



___________________________________________________
There was a hole here, now it's gone. I guess...  (╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Sean]

Fun fact with PoE, they never even adjusted the overlay map to actually use NSEW properly as it is currently flipped, you can use the sun's movement to see how it is wrong.

[Stoner]

Yes I agree with OP. The amount of things they need to finish/polish is.... incredible. They really need to stop with giving us half finished content and leaving it there for years. At one point this game will need a complete rehaul of existing system. PvP needs changes, enemy AI needs to be updated, companions needs an update, melee channeling, raids, clans... the list goes on. 

To me, old content polishing is as interesting as brand new content. I really wish DE would get that. 

[Praxxor]

43 minutes ago, elpeleq42 said:

no sold items, only skins

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they sell passive skill reset points as well (which are crucial unless you follow someone else's build or are a genius yourself).

[Fiftycentis]

Beta
someone thinks it's a joke, but yeah, warframe is in beta, so you can't expect a finished product from a beta game

also, increasing the team members is not always a good thing

[Aleksi134]

7 minutes ago, Fiftycentis said:

Beta
someone thinks it's a joke, but yeah, warframe is in beta, so you can't expect a finished product from a beta game

also, increasing the team members is not always a good thing

Well beta isnt really an excuse for anything, beta is about fixing and polishing current game mechanics and alpha is about adding said mechanics. They are in beta for years now, adding new mechanics and leaving old one's unpolished. They could do a whole year of pure polishing for the game and adding a few cosmetics and small things here and there, but mainly just polishing existing mechanics, doing reworks and list goes on forever.

[Chipputer]

20 minutes ago, Sean said:

Fun fact with PoE, they never even adjusted the overlay map to actually use NSEW properly as it is currently flipped, you can use the sun's movement to see how it is wrong.

The sun is intentionally following the opposite path from the real world.

[BlackCoMerc]

51 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

Games are art, but they're also products where players are also the customers, and this isn't a finished product. You don't see a painter charging people periodically as he paints his picture, do you?

I agree with OP, the amount of money that DE has made vs the amount of expanding they've done is grossly disproportionate. We have broken raids, parkour that doesn't work on most of our maps, a barebones open world that very few people asked for, Archwing still is in disarray, conclave and lunaro both exist but are shells of what they could be. DE needs to step it up instead of trying to hop onto latest trends for no real reason. I wouldn't be surprised if they're working up some pointless battle royale mode because it's popular.

Then you refactor it. Plenty of other games succeed in doing this, why can't Warframe? Why can't DE hire some new devs, new artist? The game has grown but DE as a company has not.

Well and fairly said. This is spot on.

I would add: DE need to stop reinventing wheels. By now, you KNOW Invulnerability phases, escort missions and tiny mission areas in maps are examples of bad game design. So why do you continue pushing them?

The leadership is stuck in 90's to early 2000 Design. Learn from more recent games. They've evolved since you played them, as have players tastes.

[BlackCoMerc]

15 minutes ago, Fiftycentis said:

Beta
someone thinks it's a joke, but yeah, warframe is in beta, so you can't expect a finished product from a beta game

also, increasing the team members is not always a good thing

No. Warframe is NOT IN BETA.

You don't get to add a cash shop, REMOVE ALL REFERENCE to beta from Steam AND YOUR OWN SITE and EULA...

...And then try to go back to the Beta excuse when you start hearing much deserved criticism. 

This game is a fully released product. That's a FACT and dubious claims to the contrary neither change it, nor excuse poor, schizophrenic design decisions made to chase popular trends.

[Wrum]

your going to be updating for a while.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

58 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

a barebones open world that very few people asked for

But that many people enjoyed. And still enjoy. Remember, this isn't your game, this is DE's game.

[peq42]

58 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they sell passive skill reset points as well (which are crucial unless you follow someone else's build or are a genius yourself).

Yes you're. They don't sell that(not that i know, 900hrs played), you need items, farmed in maps, to do so. Or wait until the next league comes, and the releasing of balance updates, so you get a Passive Skill Tree Reset option.

There're 2 things they sell in the game. Stash Tabs(You get 4 for free) and Skins(Which you also can get free, by playing the leagues and completing challanges. Leagues that come every 3 months or so, with new content, new WAYS of playing, every time.). Everything else comes by farm, or trading with players by other items called "currency", which drop in the game.

 

They indeed had a long time to work on their engine. But it was the same old slow thing until 1 year ago or so, when they hired a lot of new developers to work on the engine and also port the game for Xbox.I wonder why do DE DElays so much new content,and end up bringing it unfinished...

Also, engine's are not to blame. DE could have got a free engine with constant updates and lots of qualities when they started(like Unity, Unreal, etc). OR modify their own engine to do what they want. I develop games as a hobby since 8 years ago, i used many engines, and all of them allow you to modify and add new things to them(Using Dlls, APIs or something like that). Why a (Rich) dev TEAM can't do what a single developer can?

 

 

Maybe it can be the enterprise schedule or something. GGG has been planning and developing the 3.0 expansion(in the background, while releasing new leagues and stuff) for 3 years or something like that. I've never heard of DE doing that.

Edited January 23, 2018 by elpeleq42

[Senketsu_]

1 hour ago, Pent_ said:

Then you refactor it. Plenty of other games succeed in doing this, why can't Warframe? Why can't DE hire some new devs, new artist? The game has grown but DE as a company has not.

Not true they have hired more people. they started with about 50 employees at the start of Warframe, now they have about 200. And we simply dont know whats going on inside the dev team. Plus Warframe has over 1 million lines of code do you know how long and hard it would be to refactor that and continue to update the game as frequently as they do. Also a bug company dosnt mean quality will get better. Also I like how DE is willing to go back and rework something that dosnt work good enough. We wouldnt have Melee 2.0 if DE was simply "finished" with it.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Aleksi134 said:

Well beta isnt really an excuse for anything, beta is about fixing and polishing current game mechanics and alpha is about adding said mechanics. They are in beta for years now, adding new mechanics and leaving old one's unpolished. They could do a whole year of pure polishing for the game and adding a few cosmetics and small things here and there, but mainly just polishing existing mechanics, doing reworks and list goes on forever.

Not just that we have cash shop early access games and some even has AAA prices, unless DE tries to call warframe an early access game they can no longer use the beta excuse.

Times have chganged as they would say.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

But that many people enjoyed. And still enjoy. Remember, this isn't your game, this is DE's game.

But if people are complaining about YOUR game you either go out of business for not caring about it or fix up things.

59 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Well and fairly said. This is spot on.

I would add: DE need to stop reinventing wheels. By now, you KNOW Invulnerability phases, escort missions and tiny mission areas in maps are examples of bad game design. So why do you continue pushing them?

The leadership is stuck in 90's to early 2000 Design. Learn from more recent games. They've evolved since you played them, as have players tastes.

I wouldnt even have problem with the early 90's 2000'S designs if they would be done well. I played a lot of those games and some of them felt great with all the invulnerability phases and such but in warframe its just a pointless timesink or badly designed encounter.

[Misgenesis]

Its a glaring problem DE has. Core parts of the game left unfinished and untouched in favor of new content. I understand that new content is what keeps the game going but at some point they have to dedicate an update or two to old content.

I think its unacceptable that there are Frames missing the PBR treatment and are otherwise untouched since their release. The things YOU PLAY AS are unfinished and dated.

Same goes for a multitude of old weapons, awful damage and no crit or status such as Fang Prime

Edited January 23, 2018 by Misgenesis

[Thrymm]

1 hour ago, Fiftycentis said:

Beta
someone thinks it's a joke, but yeah, warframe is in beta, so you can't expect a finished product from a beta game

also, increasing the team members is not always a good thing

And here, one of the very first thoughts that had come to my head was, "at least nobody is calling it beta anymore"......Dang it anyway.

The game needs polish and honest updating of existing content, though, and it only becomes more apparent as they add more content.

It's very similar to a house renovation.  It might be cool and all, and there is nothing wrong with adding new rooms, but unless you "finish" a room before you go on to the next you've got nothing but an incoherent mess.  For point of reference, read of on the Winchester Mansion.  Warframe is the Winchester Mansion of gaming.  Fascinating, but in the end it'll be nothing but a weird sideshow unless it changes direction and starts aiming for polish.

[shoopypit]

But they do update them. They continued releasing archwings, and bugfixing, and adding missions, and even fixing the camera for what a year? Parkour 2.0. they are rehashing damage soon. Melee 2.0. and I write like Poe, even though the area could use some more lovin. And on top of revising content they have to release new primes and new frames and weapons every few months to make a living.