Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Ake-tits]

As a rather new Chroma User, i want an incentive being the caster of the "best damage buff in the game".

Sadly, my other favorites, Banshee and Rhino for example, suffers from this kind of problem; While I do get benefits from the buff/debuff i casted(Sonar/Roar), my teammates with selfbuff or better damaging ability outperforms me significantly. I really, really don't want my chroma falling into that kind of category. His buff ain't coming for free. Vex Armor/ Elemental Ward only lasts for 25 seconds, unlike 30seconds most other buffs have. Then you have to sacrifice one weapon slot for self damage to maximize output, and also have to spend his already precious seconds into performing it. He also have to have some kind of healing method, be it from Life Strike/ Healing Return/ Wind of Purity (these require specific weapon just for him)/ Medi-Ray(underwhelming heal amount for his use) / Magus elevate(Costs too much for even experienced players), unless he have his healing buddy available 24/7.
I know that his buffs are way too broken as of now, but i just want to have some reason for BEING this guy, not craving him to become his buddy.

My suggestion:
1. Increase buff duration of both Vex armor and Elemental Ward to at least 30sec at max level, maybe a little more. This is to counter the said buff duration being too short because it gets eaten away further to maximize the effect. also to allow Chroma not to rely heavily onto Narrow Minded, which eats away his now precious Ability Range for sharing buff.
2. Give Chroma extra bonus from casting Vex Armor/ Elemental Ward. Maybe ramp up power magnitude to himself by 50%, while cutting the base damage buff away by 25% onto self and allies.
3. Spectral Scream should be made it so it is actually useful. Using this ability will still shut Chroma off from Energy Regeneration, which is very important to keep using Elemental Ward/ Vex Armor. Vex Armor buff to this thing sounds powerful, but the cost looks too much to pay for. Maybe innate 50% energy use reduction while having Elemental Ward? just like Saryn has when she's using Spore onto her Molt.
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EDIT: corrected some misspelling.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Ake-tits

[ADDgamer45]

Not once in this forum post I have seen "I can't wait to play ember and banshee now" that says a lot.

[PR1D3]

I really like your idea for crush. I didn't even think of that possibility. It would be cool if we could crush enemies into a single point, especially if we can control it by using magnetize bubbles as the impact point.

[jiminatorx]

1 minute ago, Shadedraxe said:

also about the proposed changes to rumblers, I’m loving the aoe petrify blast on cast and the fact that rumblers leave rubble. But will the rumblers themselves be good at dealing damage and will they actually be able to pull agro? Otherwise I’d probably just end up casting and uncasting them for the aoe blast and the instant rubble. What is giving me an incentive to keep the rumblers out? Why should I babysit them and heal them with petrify if they still do poor damage and don’t pull agro away well from you and other players?

Atlas rumbers should somehow be as purposeful as mirages clones for purposes of dealing damage and drawing aggro and not getting quickly destroyed in the process.

[Shadedraxe]

Ash’s change is just... is just... so beautiful. It’s everything we’ve asked for!!! And you even made it keep its older function for the players that liked it. Mmmmmmm itsa so good! I’m looking forward to using Ash’s new bladestorm!

[Vogue]

3 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Not once in this forum post I have seen "I can't wait to play ember and banshee now" that says a lot.

you obviously did not read every post, many people said they like the changes and cant wait to play them.

[Cytobel]

2 minutes ago, Ake-%$# said:

As a rather new Chroma User, i want an incentive being the caster of the "best damage buff in the game".

Sadly, my other favorites, Banshee and Rhino for example, suffers from this kind of problem; While I do get benefits from the buff/debuff i casted(Sonar/Roar), my teammates with selfbuff or better damaging ability outperforms me significantly. I really, really don't want my chroma falling into that kind of category, His buff aint coming for free. Vex Armor/ Elemental Ward only lasts fro 25 seconds, unlike 30seconds most other buffs have. Then you have to sacrifice one weapon slot for self damage to maximize output, and also have to spend his already precious seconds into performing it. He also have to have some kind of healing method, be it from Life Strike/ Healing Return/ Wind of Purity (these require specific weapon just for him)/ Medi-Ray(underwhelming heal amount for his use) / Magus elevate(Costs too much for even experienced players), unless he have his healing buddy available 24/7.
I know that his buffs are way too broken as of now, but i just want to have some reason for BEING this guy, not craving him to become his buddy.

My suggestion:
1. Increase buff duration of both Vex armor and Elemental Ward to at least 30sec at max level, maybe a little more. This is to counter the said buff duration being too short because it gets eaten away further to maximize the effect. also to allow Chroma not to rely heavily onto Narrow Minded, which eats away his now precious Ability Range for sharing buff.
2. Give Chroma extra bonus from casting Vex Armor/ Elemental Ward. Maybe ramp up power magnitude to himself by 50%, while cutting the base damage buff away by 25% onto self and allies.
3. Spectral Scream should be made it so it is actually useful. Using this ability will still shut Chroma off from Energy Regeneration, which is very important to keep using Elemental Ward/ Vex Armor. Vex Armor buff to this thing sounds powerful, but the cost looks too much to pay for. Maybe innate 50% enery use reduction while having Elemental Ward? just like Saryn has when she's using Spore onto her Molt.

NO.

Chroma is going to eat nerf pie soon enough.  Also, you're assuming quite a bit with "...unlike 30seconds most other buffs have".  Try Volt, see "buff duration", and tell me Chroma has issues again.

Altering Chroma right now would lead DE to trying to juggle him with tons of other 'Frames getting tweaked, all while a new Damage overhaul is being brained, and would lead to The Rewarkening eating his current utility alive.  Give things time and let Chroma be.

I do like the idea of Spectral Scream being useful, but the Augment is already being looked into right now.  It may happen.

[ADDgamer45]

1 minute ago, Vogue said:

you obviously did not read every post, many people said they like the changes and cant wait to play them.

Ok that is a really broad statement. And not what I said. I am looking for an ember player that actually likes these changes.

[mkoo33]

Ah, almost forget...

Yes, i can't wait to play Chroma spitting Ignis and not being able to see a darn thing ahead of me !
Do anyone care for Spectral Scream anyway ?

[ArkenasEinbrecht]

Any hope of seeing changes to Inaros? He's one of my top three frames(up there with harrow and oberon). Just wondering if he's to see any mechanic or potency updates in the future(no, I don't think he's weak--I'm unkillable for the most part with my build).

[LSG501]

31 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

you can still max out focus per day on Adaro sedna with equinox, banshee even rhino. sleep equinox, sonar banshee, forgot how rhino worked but I think stomp statis prevented them from spotting. the key is to maintain 500% stealth xp booster. As long as you are good at it, it won't take more then 7 runs or so to hit daily focus cap.

 

 

Does no one else see an issue with needing to do a very specific approach to killing the enemies on a very specific map using specific frame(s) multiple times to reach a daily cap.... while playing the game normally nets you about 20-30k if you're lucky....maybe it's me but I like to mix up my gaming during the time I'm in the game...

Just now, ArkenasEinbrecht said:

Any hope of seeing changes to Inaros? He's one of my top three frames(up there with harrow and oberon). Just wondering if he's to see any mechanic or potency updates in the future(no, I don't think he's weak--I'm unkillable for the most part with my build).

No... leave inaros alone, don't even think about asking for any changes to him because it will just end up being a nerf.

Edited February 3, 2018 by LSG501

[Emperrier]

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

CHROMA:

Q: What is the new formula for damage and armor calculation?
A: Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

You know, not that "consistency" is a good reason to ruin a frame, but for what it's worth you're not even correct. Sonar, Roar, and Molecular Prime all work in the former fashion.

[Ake-tits]

3 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

NO.

Chroma is going to eat nerf pie soon enough.  Also, you're assuming quite a bit with "...unlike 30seconds most other buffs have".  Try Volt, see "buff duration", and tell me Chroma has issues again.

did you also see the "ability cost" section of the Speed? and then Vex/Elemental? i guess you didn't. i Also use Volt a lot, with negative efficiency.

[Vogue]

1 minute ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Ok that is a really broad statement. And not what I said. I am looking for an ember player that actually likes these changes.

I am sure I have seen some Ember players who said that, but hey! each to their own, I am sure the changes are to stay, so better to think in a way to improve them, rather than ask for the old Ember or Banshee back

[Liacu]

Many of these are fantastic changes and I'm really glad you went back to fixing previous changes (namely Ash and Gara) but why is it that Mag always gets the dumpster fire treatment? These buffs almost do nothing for her.

Buffing Polarize shards is both necessary and pointless because Magnetize is already strong so Mag's power level as a whole is unchanged. It's a good change that we don't need right now. What Polarize needs was a portion of her old percent damage so it actually scales instead of being useless at higher levels. I'm not asking for 100% shield/armour removal that instagibs the entire map. 50% or even 25% + non-scaling number (like Oberon) would make it always useful but within reason.

Crush giving shields means it has significant overlap with Polarize. Isn't restoration Polarize's job? Crush should've been some kind of high damage finisher. Give it the Limbo Cataclysm treatment but put a cap on health damage and make it improve based on amount of enemies to fit with her playstyle where she wants to pull everyone into her bubbles.

What I want the most is a change to Pull. Her ragdoll pulling is affected by Power Strength, making it too inconsistent and is often a hindrance when trying to kill enemies. Why is it that Nidus gets such god-like pulling and CC but Mag gets this inconsistent crap that used to be just as reliable at pulling in the older days during her golden age. Give back some of her old pulling please /_\ I've been asking for years upon years.

Other than my feelings regarding Mag, is Chroma expected to get the ability to change elements inbattle like Khora?

[ADDgamer45]

1 minute ago, ArkenasEinbrecht said:

Any hope of seeing changes to Inaros? He's one of my top three frames(up there with harrow and oberon). Just wondering if he's to see any mechanic or potency updates in the future(no, I don't think he's weak--I'm unkillable for the most part with my build).

Um pocket sand dagger + never die? Why would you need more?

[Shadedraxe]

I’m interested in using Zephyr’s changes. I was hoping for her to get some form of flight, but I wasn’t expecting it. Still though, putting her 1 and 2 together is fine. Looking forward to seeing her new 2. Turbulence is still awesome! And her new ult sounds pretty good. Especially since shooting the tornadoes solves the same issues we had with Hydroid swallowing up all enemies before his rework. And being able to cast them at a distance and move them around, that sounds awesome!

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Due to the nature of ember´s 4th, something around 190% range was ideal fro crowd control purposes. you dont want to CC an enemy too far while getting shot from an enemy right behind you.

Nerfing range will hurt more the ¨CC/range builds¨ for higher levels than the ¨kill everything at lower levels¨build because you can simply move around and kill enemies, now with a even higher dmg. 

 

[ADDgamer45]

4 minutes ago, Vogue said:

I am sure I have seen some Ember players who said that, but hey! each to their own, I am sure the changes are to stay, so better to think in a way to improve them, rather than ask for the old Ember or Banshee back

Oh I like the banshee changes because she can support them. IF you read back i did make a suggestion that they nerf wof damage but if accelerant is applied it does a % of base health in damage

Edited February 3, 2018 by ADDgamer45

[Sahysa]

1 hour ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Banshee

• Resonating Quake: I like that we are getting rid of the augment in its current form, but based on the demonstration shown on stream there still seems to be the problem of range. Yeah you have to recast it, but if properly outfitted the augment will still do tons of damage in an incredibly wide area without denting a player's energy. The intent of the change is to get rid of locking down the whole map and making all the other players sit around and twiddle their thumbs. This change solves the problem of the Banshee player doing nothing, but it doesn't solve the problem of leaving the other players with nothing to do. You still lock down quite a bit of the map and it seems like you do even more damage.

Chroma

• General: The changes to Spectral Scream and Vex Armor seem great, especially the latter which trades a bit of power for more team utility. However, Chroma still has the problem of a pretty abysmal range. On its own the range of Chroma's abilities are already mediocre, but when built with his 2 and 3 in mind his range is absolutely terrible. Buffing up the range of Chroma's 2 and 3 should help with this, especially since these abilities seem to be more oriented for teamplay and moving Chroma away from being a "selfish tank".

Ember

• World On Fire: As someone that uses Ember's full kit, especially Flash Accelerant, Ember's changes seem to be moving in a direction I am okay with. However, I am not particularly a fan of tossing increased energy drain on top of slowly shrinking the range. We'll use Valkyr as an example here. Valkyr also has increased energy drain as well as the growing range mechanic to offset her invincibility. Ember is a very squishy frame and has no damage reduction or invincibility. The primary reason for Ember's change was killing or locking down the whole map and generally being anti-fun as a result. The gradually shrinking range, I feel, is all that is necessary for World on Fire. We don't need a second negative added on to it, since her fragility already fills in as another drawback.

That's all I got right now. If I think of anything else or have stuff to elaborate further on I'll edit this post, but these are my feelings on the changes in their current WIP state.

"Resonating Quake is what we as creators of Warframe find to be the most unfun ability- "I want to enjoy this horde shooter, but where are the hordes?"  "

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

This made me giggle a litle bit.

You know, limbo also stops players from playing a horde shooter, yet there are good limbos around. Same thing with banshee, you are farming, while there are banshees out there that just go afk and try to kill a 10k health enemy by doing 50 damage per tick, some more aware banshees will stop and just go kill with weapons incase you are sleeping and yes this means that DE creators also fall asleep, my sugestion is to be a bit more proactive with buffing, looting, waypointing important things and killing the enemies that banshee can't kill.

I agree with Mr. Snake.  DE says they wanted to prevent squadmates from being locked out of kills while allowing the Banshee to play the game, but they leave RQ's range and CC intact.  I've been a Banshee main since she was introduced.  The problem with quake is in the base ability.  When RQ came out, I thought it was an over-powered attempt to make players look at Quake or even Banshee itself.  I'm surprised it lasted this long but it really came unto its own when relic farming, relics/minute, and affinity farming were the only attributes veterans judge a mission by.  By that time, the amateurs were using it to try to kill eximus and that's how we get to today. 

If there was an open question: How do we make RQ more fun?  My answer would be keep the current RQ, strip the stagger and make the damage fall off to 50% at range.  Everyone gets to participate and the Banshee needs to make hard choices regarding continuing to ult, using Sonar, or getting shot.  RQ game play was already interesting for the Banshee outside of edge cases because of energy management and nulifier issues.  Allies that were inconvenienced by her presence were rewarded with a fast mission, not "unfun."

The ember changes are simply "Valkifying" (see hysteria nerf) WoF.  They do little to affect her capabilities except making the player choose to cycle the ult and keep the range.  Ember was already fully capable of killing extremely high level enemies with aceelerant, WoF, fire quake, and a weapon with fire damage.  Anyone who says otherwise, including the OP, is not playing Ember to its full potential.  However, because the intent of the change was to reduce the effectiveness of running through low exterminate missions without interacting with anything, I must say the change kinda succeeds in doing that, unlike the proposed RQ change with its objectives.

DE doesn't like people one-shotting their bosses.  Well, with 34 frames in the game, players will continue to find ways to do that until there are no more players who find that fun.  At least now it will require more then a solitary Chroma to "break a leg."  I approve of this harmonization change but Chroma needs an actual kit.  He is only a tanky total ellipse now.

I would feel differently about it if there was an admission that the Banshee, Chroma and Ember changes were labeled by DE as what they are: farming outlier nerfs.  Please change survival mission rewards, or rework base Sound Quake so it doesn't immobilize the player. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Sahysa
Chroma needs an actual kit and I forgot affinity farming

[Cytobel]

3 minutes ago, Ake-%$# said:

did you also see the "ability cost" section of the Speed? and then Vex/Elemental? i guess you didn't. i Also use Volt a lot, with negative efficiency.

I've run Volt a little bit.  As in, I'm a VOLT MAIN.

I know about the ability cost.  That's part of why there's a hideously disruptive Speed build that people roll.

The fact that you use "Volt a lot" is nice.  Now talk to me about this later, in the megathread.  We'd be happy to have your opinion there, since that's the place where people have been dissecting Volt's screwed status for some time.

[DMXGeo]

Hey can you act like you guys actually play the game and give Chroma an actual rework and not a massive nerf with a mini buff? 

Do any of you up there even use his 4? Do you really think a 3 feet specrtal scream is going to be better than an actual gun?

Why did you take Chroma's niche, make his niche weaker, which was the only thing he's good at?

And then you think him needing Range for Vex Armor to "make up for it with teamplay" makes sense when his base range is awful and 99% of Chroma builds constitute a less than 50% range? Do y'all not know what Narrow Minded is??????

Do you not understand Chroma has one of the tightest builds in the game?

I really hate this. I don't think Vex Armor should do millions of damage, but if you're going to change Chroma, give him an actual rework and not a weak change to his useless ability.

Don't forget his 4 is still beyond trash but you didn't address that? Okay...........

@[DE]Connor

Edited February 3, 2018 by DMXGeo

[(PSN)FinaLLanceR]

Okay the Chroma damage thing is confusing me. Obviously it works differently than stuff like Rhino's Roar and Octavia's Amp but I'm still not sure I understand how it works. The formula (base*mods) * vex seems like that's how roar works as well. The formula base*(mods + vex) makes no sense to me since they imply that's how roar works as well. My 100% roar with 200% power strength doubles my damage. It doesn't add 100% to the 220% on my hornet strike (which would result in less than a 1/3 damage increase) so I don't get it. 

 

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a dumb baby? 

[Thesiobhan]

My Thoughts Separated per warframe.

Ash.

This is great, nothing perfect change, nailed it.

 

Atlas

These changes are moving in the right direction, but are not far enough.

Bulwark- this ability needs to receive some changes, it's too small, it's too unwieldy to fire, and It's just sort of there... Why would you want this over a volt shield? Volt shield is a defensive ability which doesn't block your offense and in fact enhances it. Bulwark is a defensive ability which hinders your offense. Suggested change, Maybe have this be an earth shield that is literally a shield on Atlas' arm. let him cast it again to throw it like captain america or a glaive. Maybe when he has it on and he uses Landslide it gives bonus damage or something, or large aoe since he'd be shield charging instead of punching.

 

Petrify- This is still a toggle CC which is... ehh really weak for a 3. Make it a clicked ability, The synergies are ok, but the powers it's synergizing with are still not very good. (feels a little like polishing a turd). This should really function like the stun version of Gara's wall, where they're petrified over a short duration and makes them more brittle to your punching.

 

Rumblers- the problem with rumblers is that Enemy AI/specter AI/Pet AI is just not good. These guys basically just run around not doing much. They're thematically very cool but man It'd be really nice if maybe you could let them run all around, but you could activate them again to transform them into earth armor, which gave you a nice survivability boost. Maybe using their health and armor as a layer of health and armor enemies need to get through before damaging Atlas, like Ferrite armor from rhino. He can't use them for offense and defense at the same time he has to choose.

 

Banshee

This is fine, but really stop nerfing AFK focus farmers before you fix focus farming, this is incredibly annoying. "Hey focus is incredibly annoying to farm, oh you guys found an efficient way to farm it? nerf"

Chroma

This is fine, It'd still be nice if you could manually reactivate Vex armor and his 2 since vex armor has moments of weakness that you can't control.

Ember

This is fine, I guess. I don't have a problem with this. Hopefully ember will be useful into sortie 2/3

Gara

This seems like it's a good change, Might possibly need to scale with a % of enemy armor so that it can actually survive in higher levels. But this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Mag

Seems good.

Volt

Seems good.

Zephyr

1/2 combination, this is good. leaving 3 alone, also good. New 2, seems meh/maybe annoying, ragdolls are just not good imo. They make enemies harder to kill 90% of the time unless they're actually doing enough damage to murder enemies, at which point the ragdoll is just flavor.

4 changes also seem good.

 

[Shadedraxe]

5 minutes ago, ArkenasEinbrecht said:

Any hope of seeing changes to Inaros? He's one of my top three frames(up there with harrow and oberon). Just wondering if he's to see any mechanic or potency updates in the future(no, I don't think he's weak--I'm unkillable for the most part with my build).

The only real thing inaros needs is a buff for his self-reviving passive on higher level enemies with bigger health bars. The point of his self revival is coming back with less health each time, eventually leading to him dying more often before he actually has to use up a revive to gain his full health bar back. But since it takes talent to die with inaros in lower levels you never reach that point and reviving yourself is impossible with the damage your laser does. It should scale damage and take the same amount of time to revive yourself with higher level enemies as it does with lower level enemies. I actually want to get to the point with inaros where I actually use up my health bar to avoid using a revive as long as I can in much higher levels. As for his actual kit, it’s perfect, no changes needed.