Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Autongnosis]

il y a 30 minutes, GinKenshin a dit :

speaking on slash dash, where the f is that mechanic where it'll cost less energy and deal more dmg when you cast it in succession? just like with rhino's charge 

you said you'll add something like that in a very old devstream but that was like 2 years ago, when rhino's rework released 

That's true as well, combo mechanic would work nicely with Slash Dash

[0_The_F00l]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)tristarwayne said:

With gara buff with her wall scaling. Would this push frost out of defenses since his globe doesn't scale?

It scales for first few seconds on damage received into health , you can cast multiple domes to increase health and covers a dome area , above and below as well not something you can do with the glass wall,

glass wall only affects horizontal area ,

they will each have their place , but one cannot replace the other completely.

[Marine027]

Passives overall needa rework, most are not existent basically at times.

Ember itself for me was always the msot synergized frame since the start, Fireball cna need soem tweaks but Accelerate bosots her stuff while CCing, FIre Blast kept enemys away with also a damage boost, World on Fire  with the new changes in my eyes makes her more relyable now in higher levels and in low ones her ability won't run all day while you afk in some missions.

We will see how it turns out but please can we stop with those Ember threads, or any other threads about the changes, it gets out of hand, besides they will release it that way now, then puta feedback o nthe forum anyway like with Limbo etc.

At least ask a forum mod to  fuse them together, seriously, we not need 3000 threads about the same topic in one day.

[(PSN)ChaosLordZerato]

Ok thanks 

[Cornelius.EE]

 

17 minutes ago, kyori said:

Perhaps DE should buff her health and shield.Let's see what happens in the final decision.

@[DE]Connor @[DE]Rebecca You guys intended this to be more for endgame but don't forget that high level missions usually don't drop enough energy orbs fast enough for Ember to sustain her survival kit WoF.

@[DE]Connor@[DE]Rebecca If we are talking about high-level viability (lvl 100+), health and shields are largely irrelevant. Buffing them won't help. CC is relevant regardless of enemy level, but effective CC requires range and the ability to keep it up (in other words: energy). Please consider not changing WoF's range and energy drain. WoF is only a problem at low levels. Instead, please consider nerfing its damage or making damage fall off with range. At low levels, this would have exactly the same effect as the proposed changes, but would leave WoF's CC at high levels intact. At high levels, Ember contributes to damage through weapons, Flash Accelerant, and Fireball Frenzy. WoF damage becomes insignificant anyway above lvl 80 or so and any multiplicative buff (e.g. 2x) will not help because of faster-than-linear enemy EHP scaling.

Please reconsider these changes to Ember. I understand that WoF in lvl 30 missions can be game-ruining for many. I agree that this issue has to be addressed. However, please don't hurt Ember's late-game viability while doing so. Many players love Ember and have found ways to make her work in tougher content, not just speed runs. Please do not disappoint them.

[Zahnrad]

As a Mag main and someone who is frequently vocal about my hatred of Ember WoF pubstompers I have to say I'm okay with this.

[Marine027]

Gerade eben schrieb schilds:

That's because it's different people complaining ...

That is the point, the palyerbase and community ruins alot, one side agrees, the other disagrees, regardelss waht a Developer does, people will always complain, i just not get how there is nevera inbetween, like  agreeing on some while still giving critque simply. And those threads already get out of hand already simply, we not need a thousand other threads about the same thing in a few days no less.

[Almagnus1]

1 minute ago, Zahnny said:

As a Mag main and someone who is frequently vocal about my hatred of Ember WoF pubstompers I have to say I'm okay with this.

So let me get this straight "I suffered for years, so now you can too!", right?

No one's arguing WoF in low level pubs isn't an issue, but the problem with Ember is that the rest of her kit is just that bad.

[Almagnus1]

1 minute ago, Marine027 said:

That is the point, the palyerbase and community ruins alot, one side agrees, the other disagrees, regardelss waht a Developer does, people will always complain, i just not get how there is nevera inbetween, like  agreeing on some while still giving critque simply. And those threads already get out of hand already simply, we not need a thousand other threads about the same thing in a few days no less.

Or there's been those of us who have been looking at all the reworks of Ember, and saw that she's getting just a WoF nerf without a buff (or tweak) to any of the other abilities.

Ember's changes are about as good of an idea as the damage 2.5 ones.

[Sasuda]

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

overbearing abilities can make squadmates feel ineffective by seriously disrupting intended gameplay flow.

There's really big issue here and abilities aren't usually the root of the problem. It's largely which squadmates are matched with who. In Warframe the progression model dictates that players without mods and frames can't deal damage in the way players who've worked in the game have. There will always be players relatively inneffective. Banshee Resonating Quake is one of few that does legitimately fall under the seriously hinders allies and Banshee herself's ability to do much and did need an adjustment. Seems like it could be good changes here. It's mostly figuring numbers out to see what the verdict is. (more posts to come there's a ton to discuss here)

The lobby Matchmaking system has mostly only seen small QOL boosts here and there. We could really use a full upgrade to help players find each other. Recruiting chat is getting increasingly bloated with players seeking enormously different objectives. Plenty of new players don't know how it works or that it exists, despite being currently the best way to find players with similar goals.

At least filtering Void Relic, clan making, general help and taxis, bounties, and resource farming should be possible. Selecting preferred loadouts roughly and stuff would help a lot or selecting MR (not ideal but helpful to some extent).

Spoiler

 

Here's a links to discussion on this. Seems it's the only one could find unfortunately. (I vented a bit of frustration in them, please look past that. Sorry)

 

 

[Lancars]

So i know this most likely won't get the views i'd hope it gets it not being a Reddit post but i had a lot of time think and i hope this gets out there. Also if the title doesn't work i'll take suggestions.

Lets begin. My idea is that some of Mag's abilities scale better in a small method that i hope works. One being a capacity in stolen shield energy and armor shards.

Polarize: Right now it knocks off chunks of armor and pops shields. Why not have when it pops shields it also builds up a passive charge (For Crush) And it still knocks armor shards off.

Pull: Uses the Greedy Pull mechanic and her bullet jump passive to drag shards with her. (I figured greedy pull would work better as it doesn't sling the shards around)

Crush: Here is where it all comes together. The energy charge you've built up from popping shields or the armor shards laying about apply to Crush. Base damage and added damage Shards or Charge. For armor shards when you use Crush it draws them in. Crush would have 2 layers as this happened. A very large Area of Influence that absorbs the shards outside of its damage range but the Damage range is still it's default. It only grabs the shards outside of the damage zone but adds to the damage on the final crush so you don't have to fully worry about dragging shards with you with pull.

Example. Crush damage range is 18m default. The shard absorption is 27m to 36m. So anything outside the 18m is not getting damaged but any shards inside the absorption radius will be pulled into the 18m range to add to the final damage.

Also you can still use the shards to damage enemies with Magnetize and the pull and passive will help with dragging armor shards to a nice spot to lay a trap.

For infested i'm not sure what to do but sometimes they get armor so i guess it could work but you can't win um all.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Lancars
Changed title cause.

[Soketsu]

il y a 15 minutes, Marine027 a dit :

First people complian she is to OP in low level and stuff now they change it and people still complain, for god sake.

That why some ask for a rework of the match making since nerf will never be the answer, even if ember dissapear, it won't solve the problem that ome player got, ash mirasimulor, this will never stop this way

[AcceptYourDeath]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Rasmus_ep88:

I really fear the loss of survivability of Chroma with the Vex armor nerf :(

There was no mention anything on the defensive side of vex armor will be changed. Not that I am aware off! 

[Glavenusaur]

Hey,

Ember really did need a rework, her range was ridiculous in regards to early game, but her ability clearly did not scale well into late or even mid game, these changes definitely seem like a step in the right direction, please do not let the people here crying "OMG NERF!" bother you guys when they haven't even tried her with her new balances in place as of yet, the reason we love your game so much is because you guys actually bother to update and balance and improve the game consistently, please continue to do so with peace of mind knowing that alot of us here genuinely agree and enjoy the games more because of the changes you implement.

Thank you guys.

[Zahnrad]

4 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So let me get this straight "I suffered for years, so now you can too!", right?

No one's arguing WoF in low level pubs isn't an issue, but the problem with Ember is that the rest of her kit is just that bad.

What do you mean suffered? I find Mag to be a pretty amazing frame even after the nerfs, genuinely have fun with her too. If being unable to nuke an entire room is "making something useless" then no wonder I can't understand ember players.

[Vance.Stubbs]

2 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

the reason we love your game so much is because you guys actually bother to update and balance and improve the game consistently

L O L

[Almagnus1]

Just now, Zahnny said:

What do you mean suffered? I find Mag to be a pretty amazing frame even after the nerfs, genuinely have fun with her too. If being unable to nuke an entire room is "making something useless" then no wonder I can't understand ember players.

Except the problem with Ember is that her 1 and 3 are outright useless.  Ember is not sortie viable because she's too squishy, and she doesn't bring enough outside of WoF to sorties.  Her 2 is a power hog that doesn't do enough without World on Fire.

The problem (that you're oblivious to) is that Ember's kit is fundamentally flawed, and the only thing that's actually making it work is World on Fire.  Remove the one skill that's making the kit work, and it's going to break the warframe's ability to be anything other than a gun platform, and there are tanks (like Inaros) that do that far better than Ember does.

[(PSN)Dublincore]

38 minutes ago, Grimm said:

 so dont nerf the only guy who can do damage to the teralyst at a not slow as all hell rate, even if its shared 656% increase on the weapons base stats is gonna slow down teralyst capture massively and make teaching new players harder. 

You mean the only guy who can one-shot kill. DE explicity said just yesterday that they don't want teralyst one-shot-killed. It's going to be slower, probably, but i disagree on making It harder at teaching new players, maybe they want more people building weapons/amps teralyst viable, and as long there's a Harrow out there our crits are at least safe.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Well ember is good for killing only till lvl 40-50, and you need atleast 2 range (cunning drift and stretch for example) mods to make WoF usable. At high lvl she relias at cc from WoF augment and range in her 4 at 100% of the times. She squishy.

What DE propose is to nerf the range, without any buffs or tweaks to her survivability. So she lose her place as low lvl killing machine, and due to lack of survilibility she will have no place in late game, thats super bad.

What need to be done-add some survivability to her kit, maybe whole brand new defence skill (instead of 3) or maybe the longer your 4 run, the more damage reduction you get. As it is snow-it's super extra bad, she will be a dead frame fo sure.

[DroopingPuppy]

The most things are good, especially for Banshee that makes her fun to play, but I have to comment on some of them.

 

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

ASH

Bladestorm - Upon activating Bladestorm, Ash’s clones will do the stabbing, leaving the player free to act. Ash can choose to join in the execution by using Teleport on a marked enemy.
 

As one of three “stealth” frames that offer invisibility, Ash serves as a more offensive alternative to Ivara and Loki. In practice, his Bladestorm ultimate falls short of those expectations - although the ability is sufficiently lethal, players would be locked into cutscenes as Ash and his clones finished the job on marked targets.

With the above changes, the Ash player can continue moving and shooting after activating Bladestorm, while his clones do the dirty work! Plus, as an added feature, if a player wants to take advantage of the invincibility offered by the cutscenes (or just thinks they look cool), they can use Teleport on a marked target after activating Bladestorm to join in on the stabbing fun.

Well, do you remember that the most annoying part of Bladestorm is that it requres Ash to mark the target? Why we can't unleash it instantly? Only if we can put it such as Tempest Barrage(of Hydroid) it would be quite playable, and suited for Ash's style.

 

Ash is NOT the frame that hide and seek. Ash is the frame that assault the enemy with some tricks, not just idle for some times and gain the advantage like Loki. Such ability that requires you to mark the targets before unleash is more like Loki's style, who can hide a long time and just pass by rather than Ash who attack the enemy directly and fast.

 

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

EMBER

World On Fire - 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.
 

Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense. Her ultimate, World on Fire, is unmatched in terms of widespread lethality - while many Warframes specialize in certain mission types, Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”. By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt. These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range.

World on Fire will continue working similarly to how it does now, but with changing effects over time. The gradually increasing energy cost should encourage most players to toggle the ability when needed, instead of the current “set and forget” approach. Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies.  World on Fire is still very capable of clear

I dare to say that it is simply pointless and make Ember unplayable, without a doubt. If World on Fire's range is reduced it can't hit anything, or what you hit are only within your melee range. So increased damage have nothing to do with that because it hits no one or you better swing your melee weapon.

Also, it forces to using all the energy to WOF, and not let us to use Accelerant too.

The end result forces simply recast WOF for about 5 to 7 seconds repeatedly through the game, and of course she can't do anything else but move and cast WOF. Honestly, why we need to play Ember for we can use slide attack by the whips and make the better result, or play the other instant wide range attacks such as Saryn?

DE, didn't you forget that old Ember was suffered enough by such a flawed mechanism and you saved her by make WOF channeled ability? And you bring back the old flaw for her again? I don't get it.

Need to cast it for about 20 to 30 secs seems fine, rather than making it channeled, and while it gives some drawbacks but making it non-channeling ability generally gives much advantage. But.... not like this. It has the drawback of channeling ability, but has really no advantage on it either because you need to turn off and turn on once per a half of dozen of seconds.

 

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

MAG

Polarize - Shards created by Polarize now scale based on power strength, as well as the percentage of damage done to that specific enemy.

Crush - Each stage of crush emits a shield heal from Mag. Restores shields to nearby allies per damage instance, based on the number of enemies affected.
 

Mag has seen many changes over Warframe’s history - her major rework in 2016 reinforced her role as a fragile crowd control caster, widening her usability across all factions. Although she performs well in the right hands, some of the synergies introduced in that rework did not have quite the impact we wanted. Plus as a starter frame, we want new players to feel like choosing Mag is a more viable option.

Increasing the damage of shards created by Polarize should give Mag more kill power. Additional shield restore on Crush also offers a way to passively support your team while clearing crowded rooms!

 

I have to say that I have keep talking to newbies that avoid Mag because she is not suited for the beginner, nor an all rounder warframe either. It is painful to do, but I have to because she is no more than a trap for the beginner.

It is a good news that you have looking for her, at least. But is it enough?

Polarize scales for power, but I don't think that the beginners are able to access for scaling power mods easily. Also Polarize is useful against later Grineers.... Well, it is a good news for end game Mags but is the change do something for the newbies?

 

The change on Crush seems not so bad. But can't we cast it faster? Mag needs to stay in a place while cast Crush. Although giving overshield helps her, but is it enough? We need for a detailed result, though. What about implement the effect of Fracturing Crash by default? Such as slows down the affected enemies for some times.

Will you revisit Pull and Magnetize too? These abilities are not so bad by default but the combine of these seems somewhat weird for the beginner.

What if Magnetize only absorbs your and the enemies' bullets, but not your friends, and does not hampers the other teammates?

[Cryptix123]

1 minute ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

L O L

This is what I mean when I say the Warframe community is slightly spoiled.

Other games: Considered very active if they make a new update once a quarter.

Warframe: New skin goes from unveiling to release in two weeks.

[Lancars]

I hope my thread is not gone with the wind.

[Mover-NeRo]

Did i miss smt?  what fixes do you mean? 

Ok nvm..found the info about dev Workshop.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mover-NeRo

[Orblit]

They're halving the ability's radius while doubling the damage + energy cost after a set timer...where's the nerf?

[Zahnrad]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Except the problem with Ember is that her 1 and 3 are outright useless.  Ember is not sortie viable because she's too squishy, and she doesn't bring enough outside of WoF to sorties.  Her 2 is a power hog that doesn't do enough without World on Fire.

The problem (that you're oblivious to) is that Ember's kit is fundamentally flawed, and the only thing that's actually making it work is World on Fire.  Remove the one skill that's making the kit work, and it's going to break the warframe's ability to be anything other than a gun platform, and there are tanks (like Inaros) that do that far better than Ember does.

You mean the exact same argument people made when Mag who used to be OP had her Polarize absolutely nuke Corpus units? And I'm sure there are more frames that the same argument can be made about. Nova is a good example. Her first even with damage reduction isn't very reliable and Antimatter drop only seems to do well if all enemies are proc'd under Molecular Prime.