Chroma Nerf

[-Kritias-]

Could someone explain the upcoming vex armor change in more details?

I have done a test with a corinth.

If I shoot a lvl 100 corrupted every spreading number is about 6k crits

With vex armor its just about 120k damage with only 1 number popping out.

That would be a 20x damage buff.

If my Vex armor has 400% damage bonus for example, the correct number after the change will be 24k?

Or am I missing something?

[Mover-NeRo]

Well in short. The dmg bonus from vex armor was counted after other bonus effects. While similar other buffes multiply base weapon dmg (or smt like that).

So its not a nerf but a fix...so to speak. Fix that will normalize the dmg formula. Well chroma will surely do less dmg but at least we can buff teammates now too.

[Nez-Kal]

I'm sure someone else can explain it better, but from what I know the whole Vex Armor thing spawns from the fact that the Damage Multiplication Equation was, due to programing limitations at the time and drive to fix a major bug, different from every other Warframe's with Damage Multiplication powers/buffs. If anything, they're not "Nerfing" him, they're just putting him in the same Playbook as the other Warframes, ie, he's not a special little snowflake anymore. They realize that his damage, though still big, won't be quite what it was, so they're adding a few add-ons for his Vex ability to try and make up for it. Will see what they ultimately decide on though and choose to implement when the time comes.

[Railgun]

1 minute ago, Mover-NeRo said:

Well chroma will surely do less dmg but at least we can buff teammates now too.

Plus it will stack with other Chromas in the squad now, so that should be nice. I also believe the devs said that the VA damage buff will still be one of the highest in game 

[IceColdHawk]

Imagine it like this, if the formular works as i expect, it'll work like shooting gallery or octavia amp which barely increase damage at all. For example a modded akbolto prime shot on an ancient:

5487 damage standard

and 5969 damage with 185% power strength shooting gallery turned on (Damage increase 46.25%)

And yeah, look at this: 5487 x 1.46 = 5969

So it tells you 46.25% damage increase but it actually only increases ROUNDED UP about 9%. So yeah, it's gonna be a HEFTY nerf.

[Samuel_sfx]

Honestly speaking my Octavia with the same percentage (500%ish)...same enemy (Teralyst Limbs) perform 10 times less than my Chroma with same Rage buff percentage. There is definitely something going wrong. It's good indeed but its doesn't make sense.

I know that lots of people will Rage against it. Nerf after another nerf, but this fix has to be done.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fans of Chroma. I have 2400 in mission hours and Chroma is my number 2 most used frame. This is DE's fault for procrastinating on fixing the Vex Armor, causing people to get convenient on it (over convenient I suppose) and then bam..the judgement day is coming making it feels more painful than it should. But what have to be done have to be done.

And Vex Aura buff? That does sounds nice, but again with range will be a problem (its always been) altho the 2nd ability augment fixed it (Everlasting Ward).

I may sound pessimistic, but if the aura work just like ward..then it will be another piece of crap. Even octavia 4th static buff much better. But again Octavia doesn't have tankiness unlike Chroma, which is partly important on game such as Eidolon Hunt where you need both tank and damage at the same time.

Regardless what is the upcoming changes, just accept it that Chroma Rage buff is a formula error.

[Xzorn]

He's getting a massive nerf.

Currently Vex works as (Base * (Serration + Heavy Cal/Riven) * Vex. The same is true for his armor. Base * (Steel Fiber + Ice Ward) * Vex.

Now the value for both is Base * (Mod + Mod/Ward + Vex)

Chroma has always worked this way. What they broke a while back was a Power Strength conflict with Vex armor where the numerical bonus at high enough values would flip back to 0 or negative values. When they fixed this they cause other problems including the Vex multiplier double dipping into weapons with base combination Elemental types like Radiation well as DoT effects like Bleeds. This was a global bug they caused for the sake of Chroma but it also affected Rhino since his damage buff works exactly the same with Roar which has also been a Multiplicative buff since his release nearly 5 years ago.

So in short they caused a bug which they are fixing but blaming said bug for the reason to nerf the way Vex has always functioned.

To give you an idea of how this change will impact Chroma this is an eHp calc of Chroma currently and after the proposed changes.

-Old-
344% Power Vitality + Primed Vigor + Steel Fiber
350 * (1 + 1.1 + 5.16) = 2,541
2,541 * 12.04 = 30,593.64 = 0.99028
960 / (1- 0.99028) = 98,859.65 eHP

-New-
344% Power Vitality + Primed Vigor + Steel Fiber
350 * (1 + 1.1 + 5.16 + 12.04) = 6,755 = 0.957477
960 / (1- 0.957477) = 22,576.02 eHP

[Ailyene]

The new formula will be like Octavia's Amp and effect damage the way base damage mods like Serration do, stacking additively with them.

Pretty much the better you are modded, the less of an effect it will have. 

With endgame modding it will probably be around the same as Rhino's Roar/Octavia's Amp is currently.  With endgame modding that 6k will probably become 10~15k-ish by my guess.  At 419% with Octavia my 55k becomes 122k.

I just hope they don't make all the other damage buff abilities conform to their off-of-base-damage formula too.  That's like ~6 augments and ~5 other damage buff skills compared to the ~2 that use the formula they say all buff skills are using.  That would be a lot of nerfs to toss around to make them all conform.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

its confirmed they r changing the formula as well?

[Ailyene]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

its confirmed they r changing the formula as well?

Yep.

Quote

Vex Armor - Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities.

Which feels incredibly off to me since very few damage boosting abilities actually use that formula making it inconsistent with other skills rather than more consistent.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

1 minute ago, Ailyene said:

Yep.

Which feels incredibly off to me since very few damage boosting abilities actually use that formula making it inconsistent with other skills rather than more consistent.

ok well thats hella dumb, i understand the bug fix to keep him from doing the damage he was doing... but that calculation is poo you probably wont evne get 2x damage

i dont normally use chroma but i thought this was what i heard, and wasnt even sure what the hell they where doing 

[Xzorn]

20 minutes ago, Ailyene said:

Vex Armor - Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities.

 

It's just an excuse or maybe something they adopted literally yesterday. Rhino says "%Damage Increase" and it's Multiplicative. Mesa says "Damage Multiplier" but it's additive with base damage. Mirage's Eclipse is Multiplicative. Condition Overload is Multiplicative. Octavia's Amp is additive with base. There's never been consistency.

They don't like that Chroma can one-shot an Eidolon even though that's been one of his roles since Sorties. Solo Survival / Boss Killer. But really, the damage loss is nothing compared to the loss in his survival. As a frame made to take damage in order to deal it he's down to 20% of his original eHP value.

Far as damage he will add ~2x - 3x damage depending if you're using Heavy Cal or a Riven with +%Damage on it and if he's taken enough damage.

Rhino does about 2.5x regardless of modding and if you want to hug close to an Eclipse Mirage that's 7x from her.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 52 minutos, Samuel_sfx dijo:

Honestly speaking my Octavia with the same percentage (500%ish)...same enemy (Teralyst Limbs) perform 10 times less than my Chroma with same Rage buff percentage. There is definitely something going wrong. It's good indeed but its doesn't make sense.

I know that lots of people will Rage against it. Nerf after another nerf, but this fix has to be done.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fans of Chroma. I have 2400 in mission hours and Chroma is my number 2 most used frame. This is DE's fault for procrastinating on fixing the Vex Armor, causing people to get convenient on it (over convenient I suppose) and then bam..the judgement day is coming making it feels more painful than it should. But what have to be done have to be done.

And Vex Aura buff? That does sounds nice, but again with range will be a problem (its always been) altho the 2nd ability augment fixed it (Everlasting Ward).

I may sound pessimistic, but if the aura work just like ward..then it will be another piece of crap. Even octavia 4th static buff much better. But again Octavia doesn't have tankiness unlike Chroma, which is partly important on game such as Eidolon Hunt where you need both tank and damage at the same time.

Regardless what is the upcoming changes, just accept it that Chroma Rage buff is a formula error.

Tank its important in Eidolon hunt? O.o wtf .... you need maybe 3 seconds (even without crhoma to do the damage) each limp , the rest of the fight you are in operator invul .... where the "tank" part is ?

[Samuel_sfx]

2 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

Tank its important in Eidolon hunt? O.o wtf .... you need maybe 3 seconds (even without crhoma to do the damage) each limp , the rest of the fight you are in operator invul .... where the "tank" part is ?

I solo Capture them

[IceColdHawk]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Xzorn:

They don't like that Chroma can one-shot an Eidolon even though that's been one of his roles since Sorties. Solo Survival / Boss Killer. But really, the damage loss is nothing compared to the loss in his survival. As a frame made to take damage in order to deal it he's down to 20% of his original eHP value.

The reason why he oneshots Eidolons isn't because of the damage being multiplicative but because he gets absurdly high increases when using elemental combos, which is a bug. That alone needs fixed. That's all. I really don't get the need to change to a nonsensy formular.

[TheGrimCorsair]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

He's getting a massive fix.

 

FTFY.

[Xzorn]

17 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

The reason why he oneshots Eidolons isn't because of the damage being multiplicative but because he gets absurdly high increases when using elemental combos, which is a bug. That alone needs fixed. That's all. I really don't get the need to change to a nonsensy formular.

 

I know, I mentioned that in my first post. It was a bug DE themselves cause trying to fix a different bug.

Now they're using it as an excuse because of their upcoming Eidolons.

The Damage nerf doesn't bother me much as the Survival nerf. He stops working and gets 1-2 shot before he can make full use of the damage anyways but now he's sitting at the same eHP my Nova has and she can AoE Slow. He has 20% of his previous eHP and he's designed to take damage in order to function. It's stupid.

[tundra--]

This is frustrating, as a new player who worked their tail off to acquire then craft Chroma.  Then put 4 forma into him.  I started in November '17 so yeah am behind the times quite a bit.

What I'm hearing is that he's now a worse version of Rhino.   Same damage buff, worse armor buff, and no crowd control capability.

DE should really rethink this change.  Or at least refund the people who put tons of forma into a newly useless frame.  He was one of my favorites until now, only had a month to play with him.  I even bought his dynasty skin and collection.  FML.... and  RIP

Edited February 4, 2018 by tundra--

[Valmarr]

RIP Chroma... Was super hyped for Chroma Prime in the future but now he'll be nothing more than mastery fodder. Same with Ember. If DE is going to ruin is only good ability, they need to at least make up for it by listening to community instead of just randomly changing his other abilities on their own accord. We asked for his 1 and 4 to be changed, instead they swing the nerf hammer and destroy his 2 and 3 while leaving his 1 slightly better, but still terrible.

[(PSN)Gery884]

3 hours ago, Valmarr said:

RIP Chroma... Was super hyped for Chroma Prime in the future but now he'll be nothing more than mastery fodder. Same with Ember. If DE is going to ruin is only good ability, they need to at least make up for it by listening to community instead of just randomly changing his other abilities on their own accord. We asked for his 1 and 4 to be changed, instead they swing the nerf hammer and destroy his 2 and 3 while leaving his 1 slightly better, but still terrible.

Agreed! They nerf Chroma's Vex Armor for no reason whether they've mistaken or it was planned to be that way Chroma doesn't deserve that nerf as 1st you need the correct mods 2nd need to forma Chroma 6 times (5 if you don't bother Aura) and then you need knowledge/practice 5o use Vex Armor properly as just turn it on isn't enough most of the time: for Eidolon capture you need those above + self dmg weapon also to gather that 504% dmg boost that barely doesn't make my God Rivened 6 forma God build Euphona P 1 shot the Eidolon after nerf I want a weapon with atleast 100k base dmg without mods to get the balance between a 100k+ hp 100k+ armored 14m tall eidolon and my 740 hp 701 armor 4m tall Chroma :D

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

On 2/4/2018 at 9:19 AM, tundra-- said:

This is frustrating, as a new player who worked their tail off to acquire then craft Chroma.  Then put 4 forma into him.  I started in November '17 so yeah am behind the times quite a bit.

What I'm hearing is that he's now a worse version of Rhino.   Same damage buff, worse armor buff, and no crowd control capability.

DE should really rethink this change.  Or at least refund the people who put tons of forma into a newly useless frame.  He was one of my favorites until now, only had a month to play with him.  I even bought his dynasty skin and collection.  FML.... and  RIP

Relax, don't buy into the hype.  He's not "useless".  Still a very good frame, just not an outright damage-god.  That's not a bad thing.  People want "tougher endgame content", and that's difficult to deliver if you have One-Shot Dragon Lord over here.  So yeah, bug fix, and they took the chance to rework him a bit.

Still a solid frame.

[Feirel]

Reading this is a rly a pain in the arse... Like always in any MMORPG game... When an OP system is gettin a nerf, people start to cry... 

What`s the problem? A Frame is beein nerfed? And? If you enjoy it, you will play... 

Same was when MAGs Greedy was changed... "Och nooooo, now my Mesa will not deal dmg because MAG can`t pull orbs..." 

Same for Chroma now... If you enjoy the Frame... Than sit, even 2-3h at your ship or symula and use your brain... 

Do something that will allow you to play in YOUR style.

 

[Jonas_T_acc]

I was almost afraid to test him out again after all the doom and gloom going on, but tbh I didn't feel any difference soloing todays S3 - Ambulas (Energy Reduction) it felt exactly as before, at least the tankyness felt the same and everything died fast enough. (Rejuvenation, PowerDrift, Vitality, PVigor, SteelFiber, HunterAdrenaline, NarrowMinded, PContinuity, PFlow, Intensify, R5BlindRage).

[(PSN)REAPER_021417]

On 2/3/2018 at 6:23 PM, Samuel_sfx said:

Honestly speaking my Octavia with the same percentage (500%ish)...same enemy (Teralyst Limbs) perform 10 times less than my Chroma with same Rage buff percentage. There is definitely something going wrong. It's good indeed but its doesn't make sense.

I know that lots of people will Rage against it. Nerf after another nerf, but this fix has to be done.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fans of Chroma. I have 2400 in mission hours and Chroma is my number 2 most used frame. This is DE's fault for procrastinating on fixing the Vex Armor, causing people to get convenient on it (over convenient I suppose) and then bam..the judgement day is coming making it feels more painful than it should. But what have to be done have to be done.

And Vex Aura buff? That does sounds nice, but again with range will be a problem (its always been) altho the 2nd ability augment fixed it (Everlasting Ward).

I may sound pessimistic, but if the aura work just like ward..then it will be another piece of crap. Even octavia 4th static buff much better. But again Octavia doesn't have tankiness unlike Chroma, which is partly important on game such as Eidolon Hunt where you need both tank and damage at the same time.

Regardless what is the upcoming changes, just accept it that Chroma Rage buff is a formula error.

It doesn’t have to be done but it will be done like the ember nerf

[TaricTheAncient]

Chroma is still very Op imo can afk 2 hour 30 min+ in surv with him.

[Cryptix123]

Agreeing with the others, the only people who are complaining are the ones who wanted to bust down eidolons in like 5 minutes. so then they can complain that they're "too easy." Chroma is still the frame with one of the highest damage and armor buffs and that's before you get to the sweetness that is elemental ward. Toxic Chroma is my drug with a Tigris.