Vaulted Relics in PoE Bounties and Syndicate Packs.

[xDjinn_]

There goes my toaster GPU lol

[Azlare]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

Except there are so many more things to it other than this. This is starting to feel like when archwing first came out and you guys were trying to force content there as well. We understand you want us to play with your new toy and we also understand that some people actually enjoy these bounties but it seems that there is a MAJORITY in both the forums and subreddit that don't enjoy these. Regular relic runs are tedious but at least you are only competing with at max around 4 other drops per rotation, in bounties, you are competing with upwards of up to 8 different drops. As someone who doesn't play plains at all, the majority of these rewards feel incredibly useless and irritating to me, and i don't have an alternative to farming these relics other than "Well I guess I just RNG roll my syndicate standing and hope for the best!"

We understand you are working on the performance issues and that's great! But why are you releasing content as large as a relic unvaulting, something people get incredibly excited for every time it happens, on a currently very flawed system? My very first run today of these bounties and I already ran into numerous bugs that didn't allow me to complete the mission and an even greater amount of tedious bugs that make the run incredibly unfun.

You mention that you are constantly following the forums and listening to feedback but based on the feedback this news received and how you guys have handled it, it doesn't seem like you guys are listening to the community at all. It seems more like you are listening to the community through your DE favored lens. Very subjective eyes maybe?

[Zahnrad]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

I'm quite glad to know that DE is at least aware that PoE isn't for everyone and the focus on it hasn't left good impressions on everyone. While admittively I understand that open world for Warframe is still a big thing I feel it shouldn't be the primary thing to produce content for. I'll continue to support it I just hope it doesn't leave other things in the dust. Similar to how Valve has neglected TF2 over working on VR tech, which again is understandable when choosing between an old game and new tech.

[(PSN)CannaWhoopazz13]

I am quite burned out with the Plains.  I was looking forward to running some endless missions with clan mates to farm up the relics.  I guess running 1000m out into the plains, then turning around and running 1000m back to Cetus will be my future...

[Kiss.Shot.]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

Also Drew, keep in mind you guys are forcing us to play the buggiest mess you guys have ever released. The bug reports as of now are almost all about PoE as well as week old threads that are coming back up cause now PoE is relevant but not in any good way at all. There soo much more than these 2 distinct issues that haven't been fixed since the release of PoE.

[Prophecey]

On average the loading phase and door boss take 4 to 6 attempts.  That’s more than half of my session loading, waiting, raging in group chat, leaving Cetus, loading Cetus, getting bounty, loading, waiting, raging in group chat ...

Also, having a 3 hour timer on a 2 to 4 hour play session just stinks.

The plains are so frustrating I’ve started playing league of legends again...

[Zerdfer]

You guys need to understand that Plains stopped being fresh and new a long time ago.

Everyone did the bounties dozens upon dozens of times, the same missions over and over again in the same map everyone knows by heart. 

Plain release, gouls x2 + Plague star, when is it going to be enough ? Time to move on or offer something new. New map, new missions, or make bounty less boring (more enemies, faster missions, less travel time, less loading back and forth to Cetus). Or make an endless FUN bounty. I don't know, just something.

Personalle, just the thought of you forcing me to do more bounties, erh, I'm out.

[Zandermanith222]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

I would love it if you lowered the timer on Camp Liberation and Armored Vault. 3 minutes doesn't seem like much at first glance, but it just drags out. I often find myself preferring to just go back to Cetus and restart the Bounty because it's faster than doing one of those two tasks. It's the main source of my burn out as well.

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

simple solution would be to take the relics and dump them in the void and derelict missions . 
Bounties are stale, tedious to play and have a large loot pool. I've ben running bounties since the update dropped on xbox and only have 3 new relics 2 of which are duplicates 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

I very much appreciate your continued presence in this thread. However, if you hear “burnout on the Plains” and think “QoL stuff is on the way,” then it doesn’t feel like you’re really hearing this feedback. 

Speaking for myself, the core issue here is that the stated benefit to players from this approach rings hollow — all the good elements lie on DEs side of the table (eg logistical simplification, continued relentless push for us to be in PoE, keeping your prime hunter distribution “cleanly organized”). Players get MR restricted, diminishing chances at acquisition of a couple relics - if they are in the rotation at all during the 2-hour window. The fact that many people are totally burned on doing any plains activity is just icing on the cake. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by (XB1)CannyJack

[SubtleOaf]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

Between QoL and performances, a bounty dispenser inside the plains would be great (it could also save progress at the same time). With incursions spawning inside the plain, it sounds like something that should be possible. And seriously, if you're chaining a few bounties, the zoning gets annoying quite fast.

For #2, looking at the lastest dev workshops (warframes, weapons), it seems you're encouraging people to try different things. Having Cetus bounties for a specialised farming is fine, but having some standard farming somewhere/everywhere else too would be perfect. There are at most two new relics in a given tier, so the droptables wouldn't be insanely diluted. And people could farm the way they prefer. I've heard of some people who liked farming relics in AW rush. Why shouldn't they farm there? The more on-demand mission types where you can farm those relics, the better.

There is also the problem of people who can't run bounties (decently), be it for the bounty MR lock or their gear. Basically recent players. If they have reached MR5 but don't have the gear, they can leech, sure. But encouraging leeching does not seem a good idea. And with the incoming MR-req-increase for many/most good weapons, I'm not sure they'll have the tools to do it without being carried. I did not study that weapon workshop in detail so I could be wrong, but that's my general feeling. And a T5 bounty is probably harder than everything in the starchart except maybe the last void nodes. During the previous unvaultings, you could farm everything without great gear, without going beyond Europa and without being MR5. And that was fine.

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

Many of us have zero reason to even run bounties because we already have everything and the rewards are pretty rubbish in all honesty. 

You can add in it's long winded, unless we resort to one and gone 'meta' it takes far longer to do a bounty mission than other missions.

We only get the junk we don't want if we don't get a relic rather than potentially getting another relic we can use for ducats on say Io. 

We can't even get all the relics because not only are they rng if they drop, they're not even always available as a reward.

Even though my pc is fine on the plains, I don't want to spend ALL my time there trying to get relics, I'm not going to buy prime unvaulting just for bo and wyrm prime.  Having said that my experience so far been incredibly low drop rates for relics, as in none, which is funny really because normally they drop pretty frequently....

I know you want to 'encourage' players to buy via prime unvaulting and/or are trying to get people to do bounties (easy fix there... give us some decent rewards) but sometimes it can be a bit too obvious and as said in the update thread (this was a copy paste of part of my comment there), players will only take so much of 'DE knows best even though it's not what the players want' before going elsewhere.

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by LSG501

[(XBOX)RpH slimwuggy34]

4 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Putting the vaulted Relics in Bounties is something new we're trying that changes up how vaulted items can be acquired. We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do. However, from our perspective, Bounties have a few advantages:

• Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track). 
• Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time. 
• Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes. 

Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone. You're free to disagree with me, but this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months. I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards. If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind. We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well.  

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

The rewards maybe transparent, but the drop rates need some work. When you run 20 bounties and do not get a single relic, it makes it a bit frustrating , the player base needs a break from Cetus after the Plague Star and ghouls.

[RedLion109]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

Performance issues seem to be particularly bad today. I have a beefy PC and generally have little problems running bounties - today: game crashed twice; I was stuck on the loading screen in/out of the plains four times; and the bounties were almost unplayable. I am sure you are all hard at work and things will improve, but I feel bad for people who experience this all the time.

Enjoyment issues certainly have something to do with Plains burnout, but there is more. My problems with bounties in general are:

1. half the bounty is spent traversing the map. Stages should be close together (two-three hundred meters not 1K+);
2. there should be an extraction point like in regular missions. This would prevent people from leaving party as soon as the bounty is over leaving others stuck in loading screens as hosting is transferred;
3. bounties are very similar to one another which makes for a really monotonous gameplay after a few runs thus making extensive farming absolutely miserable.

As for the unvaulted relics other things to consider are:

1. bounties are not suitable for new players. The recent MR lock was a good decision as new players have no business doing but a couple of the early bounties. But this will now lock them out of the possibility to acquire the relics;
2. all relics should be available at all times. If bounty 2 gives Lith relics, then all "new" Lith relics should be in the pool not just one.
3. relics should drop from all bounty stages. I mean, seriously; you really don't anticipate people will start running just stage one and then rinse-repeat? How infuriating will that be for people who actually want to do the bounty?

 

[(XBOX)toni 31000]

Hi everyone. Relics only on cetus is stupid that's my opinion, plains are boring after 10 missions, flat, nothing to do, always the same not fun anymore after 10 try and all that for 3 Relics... lol, I love this game and I have a huge respect for warframe creators but if Relics don't came back in regular mission: defense, extermination... I'm not gonna play anymore, give us the choice and put them on the plains ok but on regular missions too like that was before for rhino and mag. Sorry for my English I'm French. Bye everyone, I hope it's gonna change I love this game I want to keep playing!✌

[rotalutsiF]

So, do we have a special set of Bounties that have a really really high chance to reward a relic?!

 Because I can already see myself go out there only to come back with 2000 credits cache, 50 Endo and the 37th installment of Gladiator Aegis more often than not.

Please don't turn this into Ghoul lore hunting desaster 2.0 ...

 

 

EDIT: So, yeah, 6 bounties -> I got 4 Grim Fury, some Credits, buncha Augur Horsemanure .. oh, and a Naramon lens, thanks!

I'm well aware that SIX is not a statistically relevant number, but if my "luck" thus far is any indication of how this unvaulting is going to go I already couldn't care less about it :(

It's probably for the better that Ember's nerf is on the horizon or I might be actually really aggravated

Edited February 7, 2018 by rotalutsiF

[(PSN)kingdomkey599879]

My issue is that im not able to go anywhere else to farm and are pretty much forced to do bounties for the relics.

For sure dont get me wrong it seemed like a good idea. But then not only taking into consideration the actual preformence but also the burn out.

Load times on console are somewhat ok in solo but squad wise not so much. The the literal distance away the points of interest are good at times but can be insane at times which fuels the burn out more. Then the mr lock for newer players prevents them from getting the relics at all and then just resorting to syndicates takes time cuz of the rep cap.

In my opinion maybe make the void useful again as it literally sits there with nothing but the occasional argon crystal. Adding them there will not only give a sense of nestalgia for older players but also give a central location for the vaulted relics. The bounties was not a good idea.

Edited February 7, 2018 by (PS4)kingdomkey599879
Left out some detail and grammer

[trunks013]

2 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

The main problem is not the  vault time but way more the fact that we need to go back to cetus to select another bounty thats 2 loading just to do another one. Could this be possible to select a second bounty on the fly without leaving the plains ? 

Edited February 7, 2018 by trunks013

[Aenris]

hace 2 horas, [DE]Drew dijo:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

May I suggest 2 great QoL?

1) Give us a way to talk with Konzu from the plains, without having to exit-reenter everytime we want to reset bounties. Perhaps changing contracts it's a problem because the level of the enemies needs to be incremented or decreased, but a communicator to talk with a Konzu Hologram or something would be awesome. (Yes, Star Wars style) We could summon the NPC and keep getting contracts and never stopping the fun :D

2) A feature that has tons of farming in cetus, it's the Zaws and the Amps. I have to say, i'm avoiding crafting them because i'm afraid i won't like the end result and end up with a weapon i don't wanna level or have. And no, giving them up for a bit of standing isn't worth it. Isn't there a way to ask Onkko/Hok to dissasemble our weapons into parts so we may try again? For a price, of course. Perhaps Standing. That way i don't have to craft everything again, just because i didn't like the strike of the Zaw, or the type of trigger in the Amp. (And this would be specially nice with the Event Zaw parts, that you know, are innacessible right now)

[Myrthiis]

-Cetus burn out

-Drop rate is low

-No guaranteed relic per successful run

That unvault should have been a pleasure, it became a chore ! and a fomorian on top of it  ... i doubt the playerbase has as much free time as i do

 

[Eldnacpeek]

8 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards.

 

I don't disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards; I disagree with putting every vaulted Relic in Bounty rewards. Some in bounties, some across the solar map would be my most preferred distribution.

[Electronic_Abyss]

My computer runs plains without a hitch. Bounties are kind of a drag but I've crafted so many archwing launchers I can stomach it. The huge issue I have with these relics being plains exclusive is I HATE playing satellite. If I need a relic, I just wanna go to a mission and do it til I get it (Io, Xini, whatever). With bounties, I have to go in, fail, then check back in in a couple hours. I try to designate a block of time for playing vidya, so popping back in periodically is a real pain. Top that off with the often infuriating gamble that is popping relics in the first place and this layered gamble of bounty>relic cracking is set to be damn near maddening.

Also trying to get all the relics available has you doing all but one bounty in each cycle. Also a hassle.

[Sean]

3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

 

What about even reducing the rate on defense-style portions?

Getting multiple "defend this area" within one bounty only quickens the burnout.

[(PSN)Steelergurl33]

6 hours ago, ---EG---Kramer said:

Auto-failing bountie since few updates only :(

I've found running with setting on 'invite only' if running solo I have no auto fail. If run set to 'solo' I auto fail every time. Dont know if that'll help or not.

[CY13ERPUNK]

3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

we understand that yall want to focus on the PoE atm because its the FotM and also the 'landscapes' are where a lot of development time is going and has gone, learning from this one to make the next one better and more metrics etc {dont get me wrong, PoE is nice/great even if it is a bit too self-contained}

but many tenno, both new and old, are always scratching their heads when DE introduces things like the Kuva Fortress tileset, but yet there is basically ZERO reason/incentive for anyone to ever go back there ; the OGVoid/Orokin Towers tileset at least has Argon and the OGvaults/treasure rooms, but i dont even want to go there unless im also able to be doing an alert/fissure/syndicate mish or something else, becuz going to the void for just argon alone feels like a wasted trip when i could be opening a relic or something else more productive

bundling the unvaulted relics with the bounties is great for the 'productive' aspect of things, we can do dbl duty and earn Ostron standing at the same time and get some other PoE drops as well either by stopping to mine a bit or collecting wisps or whathaveyou ; but again remember that there are other places like the OGV and KF that need more incentives atm

so plz dont look at the #2 reason as ONLY subjective, because it is not, while there are some who maybe just dont want to run bounties, that is not a good way to frame the valid argument for putting unvaulted relics and/or any other valid incentives in more than 1 place in the starchart and for DE to give an audit on why tenno should have a reason at any given time to be doing missions on each and every tileset in the game [variety is the spice of life]