The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[(PSN)LEONARD_LEONE]

So you are removing trials? Fine, but how about you axe conclave and archwing; the other two modes no one plays and you yourself haven't done anything to or about over a year.

I played your PoE stuff for two months and it got old after two weeks, if you want to keep forcing us to do more PoE how about giving us "vote to kick" option because nothing brings me to boiling point more than "that guy" that goes fishing from stage 2 onwards of a bounty.

Since you are on the wawe of making WF more "fun" at all costs how about fixing unfun armor scaling, napalm death spheres, aincent healers random 1hko, remove combas and scrambus from the game and put all mods back into transmutation tables; do all that and then I'll believe in what you are putting down until then I am chalking it up to blatant disrespect towards your veteran players.

[Vanillu]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LEONARD_LEONE said:

So you are removing trials? Fine, but how about you axe conclave and archwing; the other two modes no one plays and you yourself haven't done anything to or about over a year.

I played your PoE stuff for two months and it got old after two weeks, if you want to keep forcing us to do more PoE how about giving us "vote to kick" option because nothing brings me to boiling point more than "that guy" that goes fishing from stage 2 onwards of a bounty.

Since you are on the wawe of making WF more "fun" at all costs how about fixing unfun armor scaling, napalm death spheres, aincent healers random 1hko, remove combas and scrambus from the game and put all mods back into transmutation tables; do all that and then I'll believe in what you are putting down until then I am chalking it up to blatant disrespect towards your veteran players.

I must say I do agree with you on the vote kick thing, but at the same time it makes me feel as though it would make pubs more toxic with people towards each other... I like the idea but it could go either way. It is definitely annoying when people wanna pub and there's a guy farming mats in pubs, which is kinda weird to be honest....

[(PSN)LEONARD_LEONE]

4 minutes ago, Vanillu said:

I must say I do agree with you on the vote kick thing, but at the same time it makes me feel as though it would make pubs more toxic with people towards each other... I like the idea but it could go either way. It is definitely annoying when people wanna pub and there's a guy farming mats in pubs, which is kinda weird to be honest....

Any community is toxic when people in it start doing something disrespectful or ignorant, if the person isn't contributing to the squad then he is both and deserves it; a new person genuinely trying their hardest falling over in mission will get picked up almost every time and will rarely hear anyone really say anything mean to them but people are just straight up leaching in bounties and it has to be dealt with.

In terms of toxicity the raids had dynamics where 3 good players could carry and teach the rest of the squad at no real detriment to them but the new edilons have no room for such thing players who like getting stuff done in a single night will be avoiding and extremely toxic towards anyone not on their level when it comes to the Hydrolyst caps; there is no room for that in a 4 man squad revolving around an activity forcing all 4 players to be on top of their role.

Sure there are players who can solo Hydrolyst but not everyone has a Lanka riven and all the other trinkets to do so. Frankly, if they have to they will just carry on solo instead of carrying some time after time.

[Vanillu]

Just now, (PS4)LEONARD_LEONE said:

Any community is toxic when people in it start doing something disrespectful or ignorant, if the person isn't contributing to the squad then he is both and deserves it; a new person genuinely trying their hardest falling over in mission will get picked up almost every time and will rarely hear anyone really say anything mean to them but people are just straight up leaching in bounties and it has to be dealt with.

In terms of toxicity the raids had dynamics where 3 good players could carry and teach the rest of the squad at no real detriment to them but the new edilons have no room for such thing players who like getting stuff done in a single night will be avoiding and extremely toxic towards anyone not on their level when it comes to the Hydrolyst caps; there is no room for that in a 4 man squad revolving around an activity forcing all 4 players to be on top of their role.

Sure there are players who can solo Hydrolyst but not everyone has a Lanka riven and all the other trinkets to do so. Frankly, if they have to they will just carry on solo instead of carrying some time after time.

Yeah I'm not gonna lie I can see it being worse now with a max squad of 4 people in PoE. Especially when you need each and every player to contribute a role to make it efficient instead of a difficult task at hand.

[Kimimoto]

On 2/8/2018 at 12:51 PM, DarkFlameZealot said:

How about the fekking FIX JV instead of giving up.

This is the reason they're getting rid of raids and restructuring them. They've been fixing them and they keep breaking because they weren't made well. 

 

On 2/8/2018 at 12:33 PM, (PS4)meredead86 said:

Please don' get rid of raids

Lets go though the scenario where raids aren't removed. 

Raids stay in the game and every update brings new bugs to LoR and JV. As time goes on they become more and more unplayable, then everyone who plays them is going to ask for fixes. Even if people don't ask for fixes, new players are going to look at raids and never ever try them. They're going to see an unplayable buggy mess that was forgotten by the Devs, which really doesn't look good.

The alternative is to remove the future nightmare and rework it from the foundation, so they won't be as unstable and time consuming as they are now. I wish they didn't have to do this! Although I don't see raids as "endgame" I don't think they're a bad option currently. I empathize with the raiding community. I and many others lost the incentive the old void gave and that hole still hasn't been filled, so seeing someone else lose their "endgame" sucks.

At least you guys know it's going to return, I may never again see a reason to forma/get arcanes/get rivens/generally progress my arsenal.

[LupisV0lk]

The biggest question i'd ask is: What made you not want to play Raids.

[QueenKharn]

Here's hoping they decide on a format that will get more than 2% of the playerbase participating this time. Then again, if it's formatted like a raid from any other source, the answer will be no.

Here's hoping participants aren't closed off raid vets.

[NightmareT12]

8 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

I'd say the survey was a joke, but it wasn't funny.  Not enough options provided for those as to why players don't do Raids.  Not to mention, if it's "official"  but not in the news section of the ship.   Maybe they should move that part of the game to Reddit, as it seems more is done there than on their own damn forum.  It feels like a bill snuck through the  congress attached to the fine print at the bottom hoping nobody saw it.    Wasn't even aware of it till it was mentioned in a comment on youtube.    Well done guys, well done.

I think you fail to understand this was done by players like you and me, and in fact this was posted on the Raid community Discord Server to be filled. It was then shared on reddit and subequently here.

That DE decides to take a look at the data doesn't make it official as it's not coming from them. One also understands that the data used here won't be the only source off which DE will base its decisions.

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

DE used to run surveys on the forums in the form of ''Hot-Topics'', why not bring the Hot-Topics back and start with a Raid one?

Totally agree, I'd actually encourage them to do this as well.

4 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

Did they ever release the survey result?

I've asked around, answer is nope (I'd like to see them as well).

42 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

The biggest question i'd ask is: What made you not want to play Raids.

I specifically remember answering that precise question myself.

[_Vortus_]

44 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I think you fail to understand this was done by players like you and me, and in fact this was posted on the Raid community Discord Server to be filled. It was then shared on reddit and subequently here.

That DE decides to take a look at the data doesn't make it official as it's not coming from them. One also understands that the data used here won't be the only source off which DE will base its decisions.

No, this wasn't done by players like you and me.   This was done by players like yourself, and limited to the microcosm of players currently that are part of that small community.   It was posted here in the late afternoon, with the intention of providing results that evening.  Uh huh.  And the fact that its sanctioned by DE makes it that much worse.   It very much seems that any notification here or an attempt to get the thoughts and opinions of the the larger part of the games players was an after thought at best.    As the time has passed, it doesn't matter much.   I was very much looking forward to seeing how Raids shaped up in the future.   Now, with the small group that ran Raids (for whatever reason) having special input into the shaping the new versions, I am not really looking forward to them anymore.  

[QueenKharn]

Yeah, just looking over it, the answers and questions are very insular and aren't a concern to the wider Warframe community. Less than 2% of the Warframe community have ever touched a Trial, never mind sticking around for more than one. The Raiding Comunity you posit is minuscule.

Questions like these cannot be posed and answered by that tiny player selection. The return will be unrepresentative of the community at large. The information gleaned heavily skewed.

There needs to be a Dev Workshop, open to the public, which is announced in-game, in order to draw in the widest range of people possible for the discussion if there's going to be a real conversation about what Trial/Raids need to be, and if they need to be at all.

[Kinjeto]

A copy and paste retrospective.

--- Cut ---
With the removal of Trials and Arcanes now being easier to obtain.
Arcanes were shoehorned into a quick Hotfix update on Feb 13th to have a 100% chance of drop on Eidolons

In the past, DE has converted systems over pretty well with respect to player time and platinum purchased/involved.

These systems include:

* Warframe Skill slots were converted into forma. (Update 4~6)
* Keys to relics.
* R5 Cores/Fusion Cores to Endo
* Forma for when the development or what would be known as the Tonkor nerf where players.

Focus was a system first introduced in (Update 18.0) The Second Dream and was a long-term daily system
that has been in the game ever since this point up until this time of writing. Like Arcanes Focus has been a very time and long term focused system

With the introduction Eidolons Brilliant Eidolon Shards for the Focus system.
Eidolon shards were introduced to make focus grinding easier for newer players,
The focus cap was still left in place and extended from 100k to 250k.

Brilliant Eidolon Shard are resource and system that is worth 25,000 is a resource needed
Please Note: At this time of writing: That Radiant Eidolon Shards are worth 40,000 Focus

to rank up focus trees and still had a fair amount of time involvement

Update 16.0 saw the introduction of The Law Of Retribution Update 16.0 March 19th, 2015
The Law of Retribution Nightmare mode was introduced later on.
The Jordas Verdict is the second trial mission added in 17.9.1 and brought Arcane Enhancements as a long-term acquired resource.
This would be another long term acquisition system.

With development going stagnent on trials and once again, another lack of things to do Trials became a go to daily mission for a lot of returning players
Arcanes took a very long time to acquire due to the nature of random number generation and random drops. The key crafting time was also 6 hours.
--- Paste ---

--- Cut ---
The Plains of Eidolon was introduced on October 12th, 2017 in Update 22.0
A three stage Eidolon Teralyst fight was introduced in Update 22.0
Trials were subsequently said to end as a system for arcane acquisition Feb 28th.

Shrine of the Eidolon: Hotfix 22.13.2
The Teralyst, Gantulyst and Hydrolyst now dropped Arcanes from the previous content
All 3 Teralysts were given a 100% chance of dropping an Arcane. That once may of taken a long time to get thanks to
1. Random number generation
2. 24 hour cooldown on raids
3. Whether a person did that trial every day or not

The variety of Arcanes have been spread out across all 3 variants and weighted according to the rarity of the Arcane and (supposed) difficulty of the Teralyst variant.
Thus making trials/raids a non factor in the game and their communities built around there in.

The overarching result:
1. A commmunity focused system that had been around for a long time was basically been given the big middle finger and destroyed in one patch.
2. Arcanes time point was devalued to people who had invested heavily in them. This was not migrated well by shoehorning in drops in a shortened system.
3. An existing long term acquirement system was shortened to 3 materials per run which otherwise would of taken a lot of months of years of commitment to achieve.

What could be done in future reference.
- Long term systems could be shortened more a long the lines of the focus system with retrospective to player-time and monetary investment.
- Long term systems could be given extended crafting systems to delay time and in some cases financial investment on players behalf.
-- Financial-investment devaluing could further be delayed/eased by implementing systems with [an] lot more formaly towards the theme of the existing system presented in Plains of Eidolon. The syndicate (Quills) which is themed around a resource and crafting system could of further helped ease the player backlash and bitterness towards system change over.
* Quills - which is crafting, resource acquistion and blueprint acquisition could been handled the player expectations a lot better
- Warframe players in the past have demonstrated that they are used to, but do not like random-number generation.
- A more objective/achievement crafting system may of been the better result in conversion.

Questions that will remain unanswered
1. Why wasn't this change handled with more care?
2. Who authorised this change?
3. Why was there no community consultation before this Arcane change over occured with Eidolons
3a. as per "what players do players want in the syndicate relic packs random generation wise?" as a past example given.
--- Paste ---

[NightmareT12]

34 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

No, this wasn't done by players like you and me.   This was done by players like yourself, and limited to the microcosm of players currently that are part of that small community.   It was posted here in the late afternoon, with the intention of providing results that evening.  Uh huh.  And the fact that its sanctioned by DE makes it that much worse.   It very much seems that any notification here or an attempt to get the thoughts and opinions of the the larger part of the games players was an after thought at best.    As the time has passed, it doesn't matter much.   I was very much looking forward to seeing how Raids shaped up in the future.   Now, with the small group that ran Raids (for whatever reason) having special input into the shaping the new versions, I am not really looking forward to them anymore.  

You should explain this "yourself" part, because I really have nothing to do with it, never played Raids, never joined the Discord server until I saw the Reddit post (and this was per chance) and only done them twice, which were the worst experiences ever in this game.

This kind of elitism? you're trying to present here from a part of the playerbase couldn't be more wrong, really. But seeing the tone of your posts I don't expect absolutely anything constructive to come out of this. No seriously, I wish I was special/cool kid enough to kind of pressure them to fix a lot of issues that bug me to this day 8)

Whenever you feel like doing something besides complaining, I encourage you to open a thread in Feedback explaining what you'd like to see or even in the Megathread itself. Because even if you think they don't due a lack of replays, I can assure you the staff reads it quite often, especially as long as it's well written. Because that's the whole point of the Feedback subsection.

Not saying things can't be handled better, but not like this man. Not like this.

32 minutes ago, KokoroWish said:

Yeah, just looking over it, the answers and questions are very insular and aren't a concern to the wider Warframe community. Less than 2% of the Warframe community have ever touched a Trial, never mind sticking around for more than one. The Raiding Comunity you posit is minuscule.

Questions like these cannot be posed and answered by that tiny player selection. The return will be unrepresentative of the community at large. The information gleaned heavily skewed.

There needs to be a Dev Workshop, open to the public, which is announced in-game, in order to draw in the widest range of people possible for the discussion if there's going to be a real conversation about what Trial/Raids need to be, and if they need to be at all.

Pretty much both of these would be true, however I don't think it'd be such a great change. I'm pretty sure most people that would answer would be these who come to the Forums sooner or later anyways, but since for now they're just pulling the plug and not actively working on a substitute I totally see why they're not doing it.

[(PSN)kellykaboom1]

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Kinjeto]

 

4 hours ago, KokoroWish said:

Here's hoping they decide on a format that will get more than 2% of the playerbase participating this time. Then again, if it's formatted like a raid from any other source, the answer will be no.

Here's hoping participants aren't closed off raid vets.

That will get more than 2% of the playerbase participating this time.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17WG1hmZ7m0YvQdUcITEU0UnAVVPph4CtFXQbhQNJnhs/edit#gid=1823102832https://forums.warframe.com/topic/917480-the-temporary-future-of-warframe-trials/?page=85&tab=comments#

 

https://trials.wf/stats/

Fascinating. This is all the data @Pegasy recorded (Thanks) over the course of 3 years.
A lot of games have things that people like to do. Even if there is a small amount of the group of players that play that content.
I find the logical disconnect between players disturbing because people want something that's challenging and NM Mode in Law of Retribution defintely has a higher damage component to it if your gear isn't up to par. Even the bomb has a bigger explosive radius (in Section 1)

The data pretty much reflects what I've seen over the years in NM LOR. I don't know, if the statistics in each section reflect a more lenient tram/core mechanic change of having one electricution on the core before it dies. I just wish I knew which patch that was when that got implemented I'd also like to know which patch it was that the NM LOR drones became shoot throughable.

 

[Key]

On 17/2/2018 at 5:05 PM, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

 as long as you're skilled enough to take down the teralysts fast enough.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[QueenKharn]

24 minutes ago, Kinjeto said:

That will get more than 2% of the playerbase participating this time.

*CHARTS*

Fascinating.
https://trials.wf/stats/

Just going by this chart of average player participation directly from a Dev Stream Overview:

[DarkFlameZealot]

7 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

This is the reason they're getting rid of raids and restructuring them. They've been fixing them and they keep breaking because they weren't made well. 

>Fixing them and they keep breaking

 

In what universe do you live in? There has been next to no new bugs that happen with JV or LoR that come with new updates to break them. Do you ever see patch notes say anything about "trial thing broke so we fixed it"? No, you don't. There is no real breaking point in any of the updates aside from the very specific raid "fixing" ones that affect trials at all. This is an excuse reasoning from DE and a complete lie to get players like you to actually believe that they are doing the right thing for time and effort management.

 

If they take away trials, they'll be gone for what...5 years? Expect a dark sector treatment to anything that gets removed for "reworking purposes". Players like me and the other veterans can tell it's a sign of the end. Time to catch up and notice the ulterior motives of a company that tosses away their oldest and most loyal players.

[Buzkyl]

11 minutes ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

This is an excuse reasoning from DE and a complete lie to get players like you to actually believe that they are doing the right thing for time and effort management.

Nothing like some good ole, tinfoil.

 

12 minutes ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

If they take away trials, they'll be gone for what...5 years? Expect a dark sector treatment to anything that gets removed for "reworking purposes". Players like me and the other veterans can tell it's a sign of the end. Time to catch up and notice the ulterior motives of a company that tosses away their oldest and most loyal players.

"Sign of the end"

Now thaat's just laughable, sign of the end of WF? Now it's doomsday posting? I really like people to pull the hard numbers to show that WF is ending or DE is losing interest in it.

And please, DE appeals veterans constantly, the very reason dark sectors and even raids were even MADE because veterans complained the game lacked challenge. And surprisingly, Vets blew through the content and went back to complaining there's no challenge, so DE made Elidons, and gues what, Vets now farm them and say they're easy. Oldest ? Yes. Loyal, debatable. Entitled? alot of the times.

[DarkFlameZealot]

7 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

"Sign of the end"

Now thaat's just laughable, sign of the end of WF? Now it's doomsday posting? I really like people to pull the hard numbers to show that WF is ending or DE is losing interest in it.

You apparently don't understand what the end of a game means. In this case, it means that the game will devolve into something akin to Pokemon X/Y: laughably bad content and everything is a joke to get through. Because DE is so focused on catering to the general population, this also means that they are putting content into the game while making it far too easy.

 

Ex 1) Void fissure reactant- now vacuum affects them so you don't even have to try to slow down and think about what you're doing. Just another step in making a brain dead game. 

Ex 2) Arcanes to eidolons- takes about a fourth or less of the time it takes to complete a trial for a guaranteed 0 CD arcane drop. The game is grind incarnate, and they just made the grind for the only endgame items (aside from pure rng rivens) accessible to MR0s. You don't even need an operator to kill an eidolon teralyst as long as you bring a trinity or rhino to help out.

 

The fact that you don't realize how Warframe's gameplay is declining into even more braindead mouth-fed rewards is proof that I'm correct in the "end" coming. When a game developer decides to kill off the only thing keeping a ton of their oldest players in the game and shoves it into an unfinished and unpolished "open world" (lmfao, not even close to it), you know they are done appealing to their loyals.

 

 

If they had made Dark Sectors back to being actually difficult and worth our time, I'd be happy to play them instead of Trials. But as you can see,  3 years of neglect and now we get some speedrun-point-to-point game is a waste of our time. Sorry that you don't understand.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Missing the point why Devs of game marked as MMO RPG CO-OP will remove only mission which confirm that.

[Buzkyl]

47 minutes ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

You apparently don't understand what the end of a game means. In this case, it means that the game will devolve into something akin to Pokemon X/Y: laughably bad content and everything is a joke to get through. Because DE is so focused on catering to the general population, this also means that they are putting content into the game while making it far too easy.

 

Ex 1) Void fissure reactant- now vacuum affects them so you don't even have to try to slow down and think about what you're doing. Just another step in making a brain dead game. 

Ex 2) Arcanes to eidolons- takes about a fourth or less of the time it takes to complete a trial for a guaranteed 0 CD arcane drop. The game is grind incarnate, and they just made the grind for the only endgame items (aside from pure rng rivens) accessible to MR0s. You don't even need an operator to kill an eidolon teralyst as long as you bring a trinity or rhino to help out.

 

The fact that you don't realize how Warframe's gameplay is declining into even more braindead mouth-fed rewards is proof that I'm correct in the "end" coming. When a game developer decides to kill off the only thing keeping a ton of their oldest players in the game and shoves it into an unfinished and unpolished "open world" (lmfao, not even close to it), you know they are done appealing to their loyals.

 

 

If they had made Dark Sectors back to being actually difficult and worth our time, I'd be happy to play them instead of Trials. But as you can see,  3 years of neglect and now we get some speedrun-point-to-point game is a waste of our time. Sorry that you don't understand.

1.Ah, manually picking up 10 reactants was such thrilling gamelay wasn't it? That example is extremely weak.

2. Raids were Artificially extended through loading screens and repetitive tasks however they were still as mindlessly easy as Elidons after a few runs. Raids hardly offered any greater challenge than Elidons when runs basically devolved into standing on pads and CCing enemies into oblivion. Or perhaps the mess which is JV is what you were referring to. Which i will admit compared to LoR provided alot of of a challenge due to AW. Teralyst and like at the very least required adequate gear and frames to bring down, anyone can do LoR as long as they could stand on a pad an follow instructions.

Also Trials had no MR Requirement so any "MR0" would be able to join fresh off their account, so raids certainly aren't as exclusive as you imply. So can we please not go with the MR jab, it's unneeded. The difference was that Elidon hunts now have public matchmaking.

>tons of old players

Raids were the second least played mode in the game ahead of conclave, the community was objectively small but but active.

I have been here since 2013, the entire mantra of 'DE is abandoning Vets" is as old as the game.This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. I don't expect DE to cater entirely to "vets" (which is such a subjective term) whims as they are a shrinking population to the rest of the game. DE is gonna spend several months of manpower to develop content to be played by 3% of the playerbase. How is that even logical?

[Haeen]

To be honest part of the issue is that Raids themselves don't have a proper breadcrumb trail leading to them.

You can pla the entire game without ever knowing of their existence.

[_Vortus_]

5 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

You should explain this "yourself" part, because I really have nothing to do with it, never played Raids, never joined the Discord server until I saw the Reddit post (and this was per chance) and only done them twice, which were the worst experiences ever in this game.

This kind of elitism? you're trying to present here from a part of the playerbase couldn't be more wrong, really. But seeing the tone of your posts I don't expect absolutely anything constructive to come out of this. No seriously, I wish I was special/cool kid enough to kind of pressure them to fix a lot of issues that bug me to this day 8)

Whenever you feel like doing something besides complaining, I encourage you to open a thread in Feedback explaining what you'd like to see or even in the Megathread itself. Because even if you think they don't due a lack of replays, I can assure you the staff reads it quite often, especially as long as it's well written. Because that's the whole point of the Feedback subsection.

"Yourself" part, you described it as something by players like you and me.   So, it was an error on my part that assumed you were part of the farce, and I am sorry about that.   You simply forwarded the information.  Then this group neither included you or me.   Which sadly, means those actually involved had no part in it supplying the information and rather than the Warframe forums being an after thought, they were given no thought.   If I need Warframe information, I expect to find it in the game, in the Warframe forum, or on the  Warframe Wikia.     I do not search other forums.   I am not part of the "Raid group".   I do not follow things on social media.    Then again, it was foolish to expect DE to change and actually put pertinent news in their own forum.    Complaining?   Pretty sure the players have reason to be upset over this, I know I am.   Saying so is feedback.   A small group of players being given special privileges and a discussion with DE, sound like Elitism.   Smells like Elitism.   Likely is what it sounds and smells like.   

Seeing as apparently DE saw fit to bury the thread within a meta thread it won't matter much.   Like I said, fine print hidden on the back of a contract in light colored ink.

[Kaminariss]

Guys what are you even talking about, rewards are the least of the problem that Raids had. As for me Raids could drop literally anything useful including Formas, Exilus adapters, High amount of endo, Kuva, Relics etc. Anything as long as it is useful for both beginer and veteran.

Its not a problem at all. First of all is there any content that requires you to have arcane? No. You can do perfectly fine without arcane. Nothing is challanging enough that arcane would make a difference. Sure it is nice to have but as for me arcanes could stay with eidolons.

As a new player or solo player it was almost literally impossible to get team for raid, everyone was looking for "experienced players". Not to mention you would need to spam Recruiting. Raids were not, and are not accessible enough. The only way to get into team would be lying about your experience.

And most of you missed a crucial part:

In modern software development whatever is application, online shop or game or whatever. When you release a feature, you often collect feedback from the users trying to improve it. There are 2 rules to make it successful:

1. Do not blindly follow what people are saying - DE is almost too good at this point.
2. Evaluate the most popular issues/ideas. - DE fails on this one.

There are numerous ways to improve your ideas for example A/B tests.

First point is important because usually most of the players have no idea what are they saying, as you have seen, people would like to get loot without effort. That would absolutely kill the feature quickly.

Second point is also important because you won't get progress without improvement. It's really hard for companies to admit mistakes but admiting mistake is the way to save your face and avoid Sh*storms on forums like this one: https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612331418

TL;DR: at some point, Blizzard thought it would be good idea to cut maximum camera distance to around 30 (it probably is some arbitrary unit, not meters or yards). People raged, sh*tstorms on forums were vast and lengthy. They never admitted mistake but changed it to ~40. It is a prime example how to not save face. People remember and will remember.

So what am saying is, DE fails at the very basics of business, the feedback loop:

Blizzard is a bit better on this.

[(XBOX)xXKalaschXx]

Why not gift every new player a full energize set, they still made it to login into the game, they deserve it...

 

sry but i really dont get it, it took 2 years to farm a full arcane set, now i guess you need a week to farm it.

there is no activity in the game where you really need arcanes it was just the little more power very engaged players got, so i dont understand why everybody should get them with nearly no effort.

warframe follows the same road like destiny, we give everything to erverybody so the newer players stay, veteran players dont care them anymore, oh i forgot we get the ugly shoulder thing (dont know the name atm)

 

sry but i can understand why you remove the raids to rework them, but why you devalue the arcanes that hard i really dont get...