Update 22.12.0: Warframe Changes Feedback Megathread

[MechaKnight]

2 hours ago, Sasuda said:

50% range 200% damage is not 100% effectiveness. Currently the range nerf is 75% area loss the radius nerf is 50%.

A 50% range nerf isn't 50% radius. A 50% radius nerf is translated through 3.14*r² .
a raduis of 50m = 7853m2
a radius of 25m (-50%) = 1963m²(-75%)
a radius of 12.5m(-75%) = 490m² (-94%)

This is a heavy nerf. Your damage/m² is dropping a lot. Doubling the damage doesn't make up for the losses for lots of reasons. Doubling the cost makes it pretty crappy.

You're right--I made the same argument you did back during Update 16 regarding Radial Javelin spam and why it's effective. In this case, the range reduction is why Ember is now ineffective. I apologize for not remembering to interpret range as a circular or spherical area as it actually is, but the developers have neglected both stat values and basic geometry in their Ember changes. I was speaking purely off the stat magnitudes themselves, which are as I described--World on Fire changes over a period of 9.5 seconds to multiply damage 200% in exchange of halving its radius and doubling its energy drain per second.

[DMXGeo]

Did y'all fix Chroma yet

[Lele.]

When DE reworked again Ash's Bladestorm, now, it can trigger Arcane Stike and Arcane Ultimatum. Well. Why, so, Bladestorm can't trigger Exodia Might? 

[m3stuart]

I like Chroma's Changes a lot. A team Player now , but he could use some small touches.

 

Passive : Chroma get's additional bonuses, depending on it's current form.

Fire : Adds 50 Hp

Toxin : Adds 10% Fire rate and 10% Reload speed

Electricty : Adds 100 shields

Cold : Adds 50 armor.

 

1. Spectral Scream : Now you can additionally hold it, to change elements. (Elemental Ward has to be recasted in order to get the current element bonuses) I really like my Blue / Green Chroma, but the desired Element, isn't that good. Toxin, expecially. 

 

2. Elemental Ward:
Fire : Nothing changed

Electric: Discharge range (Whenever Chroma gets hit) from 5/6/8/10 meters to  6/8/10/12 meters.

Toxin: Holster Rate replaced by Fire Rate.

Cold: Nothing changed.

 

3. Vex Armor: Nothing changed.

 

4. Effigy

While Pelt it's active.

Movement speed bonus changed from 20% to 15%

Armor reduction buff changed from 50% to 40%

Additionally , if Spectral Scream is used during hes Effigy, he will deal bonus damage.

Guided Effigy: Nothing changed.

New Augment : Icarus Dive : Chroma's Pelt dives forward in an arc with fixed distance then orbiting back to it's original position , leaving behind an elemental trail affected by hes current form. The trail deals massive damage for a limited amount of time and applies status effects once. The damage will be dealt for the full duration for 500/700/900/1100 damage per second, for 3/4/5/6 seconds, affected by Strength/Duration/Eff mods.

 

[(XBOX)Volker9549]

I had a capacitane volt that scaled into end game (sortie 3), and i dont understand any of the discharge changes. You guys talked about him slowing the game down as if he could freeze the whole map. He doesnt and he never has. He zaps a decent size area around you, but more unstuned enemies start to walk in immediatly. I just liked boosting my shields and landing headshots with vectis. Equinox and harrow already do this essentially. Why cant volt?

[Cryone]

18 hours ago, (Xbox One)RECLAIMERR117 said:

I had a capacitane volt that scaled into end game (sortie 3), and i dont understand any of the discharge changes. You guys talked about him slowing the game down as if he could freeze the whole map. He doesnt and he never has. He zaps a decent size area around you, but more unstuned enemies start to walk in immediatly. I just liked boosting my shields and landing headshots with vectis. Equinox and harrow already do this essentially. Why cant volt?

Too OP, perhaps.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Cryone

[(XBOX)Artakka]

1) Rip ember

2) Atlas's rumblers do not need a duration 

3) I might actually try out Zephyr, good job there

4) Chroma=better, now the entire squad can have his ridiculous damage buff

5) Let rhino send em into orbit lol

6) The only thing Volts 4 needed was a slight damage buff, not all the crazy changes that were made

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Absolutely love all the changes! Even ember! Great job DE!

[(XBOX)UlisesTheFallen]

Aside from killing Chroma and Ember (though she was always bad. Just worse now), Volt cant cc for his life anymore. If this was the price for taking off his damage cap, then I dont want this for him. No matter what you guys try to do or say, Volt just isn't a damage frame. Accept it. He has his transistor Shield augment along with the hidden bonuses his shield gives, which is fine because his shields are great for taking all porjectile damage and buffing weapons shooting through it. But turning Discharge into more of a damage type just makes his cc so useless. I fail to see what the problem was for him to be an "accidental" cc frame. It worked well for him. It gave me if running solo, or teammates if in a group, time and room for a quick breather if we started getting over run. But that reduced duration just made me and many others say "F*** it". 16 seconds stun if I'm hugging the enemies at 5 meters and less? Who thought that was a good idea? 10 seconds at 10 meters, 6-7 seconds at 20 meters away, that aint S#&$. You people have got to play this game more often, because damn did my favorite frame take a beating. If all I got are his shields for endurance runs and no cc, why would I and other players ever risk taking him in the first place now. There are people who like going beyond level 40, just saying. And even then, his abilites damage fall off around the 40s anyway. Give us back Volt's cc duration back to what it was, because his 4th is useless. GG as always DE. There goes his survivability in high endurance runs, because his shields wont stop a mob of enemies from running through them

[(PSN)Monmaker]

Okay... So, I'm a ps4 player and bought the ember prime pack over the weekend and was liking her quite a bit and I planned on coming home from work today to do the fifteen waves of defence thing I need for Eris, only to find that, lo and behold, my new paid for with real actual worked for money defence frame, is now pretty much useless outside of maybe two waves of defence before I run out of energy. So please tell me why someone thought it would be a good idea to sell a frame that you knew was going to be nerfed soon, before the nerf, instead of after... I'm pretty ticked off about this...

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

The Atlas changes are AMAZING.  Seriously its like I'm playing a whole new frame almost.  I don't think I have a single complaint about any of the buffs.  It's just nice to have the extra survivability from all the health and armor now.

[(PSN)ctcjoe19]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:47 AM, (Xbox One)Young Boy HT said:

1) Rip ember

2) Atlas's rumblers do not need a duration 

3) I might actually try out Zephyr, good job there

4) Chroma=better, now the entire squad can have his ridiculous damage buff

5) Let rhino send em into orbit lol

6) The only thing Volts 4 needed was a slight damage buff, not all the crazy changes that were made

2) Atlas's rumblers do not need a duration - I agree with this statement 100%

 

 

[(PSN)czu_]

Huge influx of Atlas players coming...

he was good before the update. Now he's absolutely amazing.

[(PSN)lakaifan]

The ember range change is something that i found to be really bad for build diversity and forces to run high range and the damage buff needs to scale better for higher lvls than it currently dose, and she still nukes low lvl pve, so I don’t see the real reason for a range nerf. I like the banshee changes.

[Prof_Blocks_007]

On 2/26/2018 at 9:50 PM, Prof_Blocks_007 said:

This feedback will likely sound harsh.

For that I am sorry.

I have played Zephyr for a long time, and have played with the Rework for a while, testing different builds and trying to adapt, but too much control and reliability has been lost from the pre-rework form.

Some before & after gameplay:

  Reveal hidden contents

Before:

After:

 

Both clips were using builds with 200% power strength. The before rework build had 195% duration. The after rework build had 116% duration (to compensate for the increased Tail Wind speed).

(Also worth noting - I didn’t realise pre-recording that looking directly downwards causes Tail Wind to fly upwards, like Bullet Jump does.)

Overview

Pre-rework, Zephyr’s aerial combat had a smooth flow to it, with plenty of control. There wasn’t much momentum on Tail Wind, so it could be used to move around, without flinging Zephyr too far.

Post-rework, it feels awkward and clunky. Having to look upwards (or directly downwards) to launch into the air, and sharply downwards for Dive Bomb is inconvenient, especially compared to the pre-rework behavior. The increased speed and momentum of Tail Wind has made it really awkward to use in combat, even with a lowered power duration to compensate for it. To make things worse, any use of aimglide or jump (for a short duration after Tail Wind ends) causes Zephyr’s height to increase even further, based on how high Tail Wind’s angle was.

Keeping control of Zephyr while aiming at enemies is now, unfortunately, rather cumbersome. She has become great for traversing the Plains of Eidolon, but combat and regular tileset movement has suffered.

The halved cost of Tail Wind while airborne is great, and it can now fully change Zephyr’s direction (pre-rework, Zephyr’s movement would sometimes shift back to its previous direction after a Tail Wind), although I have a feeling this may only be due to the new mechanics/handling.

The changes to Tornado have been excellent. They had some issues keeping hold of enemies when the rework launched, but that appears to have been improved substantially since then. Transferring damage (now including crits and status) and recastability makes them a hell of a lot nicer for Zephyr and her squad to use.

Air Burst is useful for a quick ragdoll/knockdown, especially after the flight speed buff. Nothing outstanding, but still worth using.

Moving onto the suggestions! For the most part, this will be an attempt to merge the reworked Zephyr with the pre-rework Zephyr, with some additions.

Tail Wind

• Return the original mechanics and speed/momentum (cast on ground to launch, cast in air to dash)
• Hold cast on ground to launch into hover (tap cast on ground would do the same launch as pre-rework - no hover)
• Allow some movement during the hover
• Hold cast in air to increase speed and extend dash length (this could be implemented as: dash immediately on tap, continue holding for a longer, faster dash)
• Fix air-dash Tail Wind breaking Zephyr’s passive slow-fall (current workaround is jump to reset it)
• Change Target Fixation (Augment) to no longer reset on touching the ground - this one is near impossible to keep up and use effectively, if at all. Have the counter reset on Dive Bomb instead, consuming it for a (relatively) big burst of damage.

Dive Bomb

• Back to power slot 2
• Reintroduce Divebomb Vortex (Augment)
• Possibly scale with melee mods?

Air Burst

• Merge with Turbulence (casting 3 while Turbulence is active throws an Air Burst)
• Alternatively, merge with Dive Bomb - tap to throw, hold to dive (hold input would only need to be short, something like the difference between cycling/casting Vauban’s Minelayer/Ivara’s Quiver)

Turbulence

• (Possibly) shorten cast animation
• Fade VFX when aiming

Tornado

• I can’t think of anything to change for Tornado - it really is great now

Other

• (Possibly) add a third jump (triple jump) and extended aim glide duration to Zephyr’s passive, to really solidify her aerial combat capabilities

This would return the control and combat flow that pre-rework Zephyr had, while keeping her newfound speed for PoE and other large tiles/future open zones.

Thank you for reading!

To expand on this, I have created a table detailing the before and after of Tail Wind.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Prof_Blocks_007
Table as image instead of pasted (semi-broken) table

[BBaw]

I'm just gonna focus on Zephyr.  I think you guys are taking a step in the right direction, well done.

1) Tail Wind - you guys did great I like it,  I wouldn't change any of it.  Takes a little getting used to but once you got it, you got it. Its good

2) Air Burst - Its a neat concept.  A ranged ragdoll ability.  Not unlike the Sonicor or Corinth secondary fire. Also increases Tornado height.

3) Turbulence -  It was good, still good, still like it, still great.  Jet Stream still works.

4) Tornados - Love them, you guys are great.  I'm not too keen on the way we change damage with the new changes but I can definitely get used to it and plan for it.  We can now steer them!  It works too, great job on that.  I love it.  The one downside and drawback.   This pretty much negates the effect of Air Burst on them.  I don't need them bigger now.  I'm in the drivers seat.

Recommendation - Change Air Burst into a means to create distance between Zephyr and her foes in close quarters.  Make this a concussive blast that creates space.  Like Zephyr flapping her wings to shoo away foes in her personal space.  This gives her more of a close range support skill that complements the rest of her long range skills.  When I'm looking at Zephyrs arsenal I can definitely say this is what she is missing.  I know I could probably just aim an Air Burst at my feet to get the same effect but that just doesn't seem like it fits right.  I would rather see this skill have some focus instead of being an open ended blast that can hit anywhere but is somewhat redundant given her other abilities.   With that,  maybe a slight decrease in casting cost. 35 vs 50.

When I take a step back and look at the whole picture, this is what makes sense to me.  I typically wouldn't be knocking down anything at long range as it just makes things harder to hit.   So, I would keep this close range.

That's all I got, great work on Zephyr.  Really fun to play.

BBaw

 

[(PSN)eximago]

Zephyr main here! We've had the update for a couple of days now on console, and I've had the chance to play around with the changes. Overall, I'm very happy with the direction you've taken. Combining Tail Wind and Dive Bomb and making a new ability is exactly what I wanted to see. That said, there are a few things I would like to see adjustments to.

Tail Wind

PROS

I love how the ability feels now. I think there were some issues with this ability before where she wouldn't continue moving with the same momentum as she was intended to. I think I remember hearing about some air friction related issues early on. The longer you tried to stay in the air by spamming this ability, the heavier you'd begin to feel. Now, momentum is maintained, making you feel much more light and agile as Zephyr should always have felt. It also means that it's not necessary to recast as often when flying across the Plains, leading to greater efficiency. It's great. It's a bit more unwieldy, but I'm getting the hang of it. Clean landings are still possible, which is great. Any negative feedback on this point I think will dial back as people continue to get the feel of the new mechanics. Dive Bomb is also easy to pull off, and I'm happy with it.

CONS

I'd like to see a reversion to having Zephyr shoot upwards when casting from the ground, instead of how she currently shoots where ever she's aiming. It allows for a quicker, more reactive response when escaping melee enemies than aiming upwards, while still allowing for aerial retaliation, rather than putting you on the other side of the map. Zephyr is extremely squishy without the protection of Turbulence, and she needs to be able to respond quickly to melee enemies sneaking up behind her.  

I'd like to see the charge time for the hover either reduced, or have it affected inversely by Duration mods. She's too vulnerable to melee attackers this way, and not getting a full charge can still leave her vulnerable while she hovers, especially to AoE damage. I'd also like to see the energy effects turned way down. With bright energy colors, it can be nearly impossible to see what's happening on the ground, especially when layered with Turbulence's effects. Its function as a sniping perch is severely reduced in this way. 

As for the augment Target Fixation... Frankly, it's useless. Tail Wind is just not accurate or powerful enough to be used offensively, and with most targets on the ground, it's essentially impossible stack enough damage buffs before landing and having to start over. Perhaps changing it so that your weapons would receive a stacking damage buff for each target hit while hovering would work better, giving her kit some damage that she otherwise lacks, and 

Air Burst

PROS

I absolutely love it. It fits so well into her kit and compliments her playstyle well. It also serves as as an adequate replacement for what I called "the Zephyr stomp": jumping but a short distance before casting Dive Bomb for quick and dirty CC, which isn't as straight forward to pull off now. Not that I've needed to even attempt it. 

Turbulence

I don't have enough to say for pros and cons, so I'll keep it simple. It works great, but the fact that the animation stops her dead in her tracks (and always has) is sacrilegious for a Warframe centered on her mobility. I love the new animation, but her legs need to keep moving. I'd also like to see a pushing mechanic similar to Gara's Splinter Storm, but maybe I'm just getting greedy. 

Tornado

I'm extremely pleased with the changes. My only suggestion would be to crank up the suction just a tad more to keep enemies in the tornados longer. I've noticed this has already been improved some from the original iteration, but it think it could still come up a bit. The steering is also iffy right now, so additional functionality there would be helpful. Additionally, now that they do physical damage instead of magnetic by default, change them to match your energy color until given a new damage type. This would grant additional viability in the end game (Captura). 

Edited March 8, 2018 by (PS4)eximago

[m3stuart]

When are we going to get the next batch of changes to Warframes that were hit hard?

Yes, straight up nerf them, but give power to some other abilities. Ember didn't get enough power back. Chroma it's in the same position atm, with Full STR rhino competing against Chroma, in terms of buffing the team.

 

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

Using the jump on Zephyr's first ability is almost impossible. If she isn't on 100% perfectly flat ground, she's considered in the air, and sent flying forward on cast.

[cptSmollett]

Suggestion for Ember:

I have a really stupid idea: What about changing Ember's 4th entirely...? Because right now, personally, I don't see a a way to make it non intrusive for star chart players and at the same time to make it work on higher lvl content, so instead I'm suggesting this:

- Channeled aoe that during channel creates a relatively wide area (NOT affected by mods) within which enemies are put on fire (for minor damage) during channel and a short stun on end of channel (channel time is up for dispute, but shouldnt be long)  and depending on amount enemies hit, you are getting an ability damage buff (with high basic numbers) which scales with amount of enemies hit, probably with armor reduction to affected enemies (like 20%).

Though... it would make 2nd ability redundant. 

P. S. I know it's not enough, but the intention is to make a base for discussion in a slightly different direction

Edited March 10, 2018 by cptSmollett

[Maka.Bones]

These suggestions:

*Boom*

[Maka.Bones]

Or Big pimp daddy's Ideas:

*bang*

[(PSN)theMycon]

Thanks for all the hard work, trying out all the new mechanics has been fun.

 

I've got suggestions on two of the new warframe changes.

Atlas

Petrify is too expensive for too small a cone.  It's apparently the main source of rubble (the Big Thing for Atlas), and one cast doesn't get you much.  If allied kills got you rubble, then it would be worth it.  As is, I'd lower the cost and speed up casting.

Rubble needs a bigger pickup radius, or to be vacuumable, or maybe glow a little.  It shouldn't decay that fast, either.  Maybe halve the decay rate again?

Tectonics is still underwhelming.  Make it the augment, and make the augment "walls reflect damage" or blind or something.

Zephyr

Tail Wind is now wonderful for flying around the Plains of Eidolon, and rather difficult to use everywhere else.I like the hover- theoretically, it can give you the same defense vs Infested that Turbulence gives vs everything else. There are two big issues- the new hover/divebomb are awkward to use, and the flight ragdolls you for too long.  If you want the hover to last any length of time, it has to go high, and it has to charge slow.  I'd like to suggest hover duration depend on ability duration, rather than how high you go.  I'd also like to END Tail Wind when I touch ground.  Or re-hover when I hold the button again.  

Air burst is meh, but it's better than dive bomb.  I love making the tornadoes bigger, but I find using it directly to be a waste of time- I could have just shot them.  

Turbulence still works, Jet Stream still works.

Tornado is still good, solid, inconvenient CC.  Damaging the enemies when you shoot a tornado is & moving them are good steps toward the reasons Tornado is inconvenient CC.  But... moving tornadoes should be a lot faster- I'm busy if I'm using CC.

 

I think Chroma's change is actually pretty balanced.  My "FaceTank" config went from 98% damage reduction to 92% DR (I'm taking 4 times the damage at full Scorn!), but Vex Armor is easier to maintain.  Also, my "support" config can actually provide decent support to other frames.  

 

Thanks again for a great game!

[Air-mage]

buff back zephyrs tailwind distance

"divebomb" tailwind has too low chance to happen, you have to be too specifically 90 degree aiming the ground to do it  

 her channeled tailwind is usuless waste of time, with 0 damage, and nearly nonexistent bonus range

all tailwinds damage, even with target fixation has very low hitbox and damage, it sucks, no wonder no one will pick zephyr

 her new 2nd spell costs S#&$ttons of energy even when airborn compared to low damage, hitbox, and range, takes too much times to cast, and its hitbox for tornadoes suck

and the worst

ZEPHYR PRIME LLIKE LIKE GARBAGE, JUST WHAT KIND OF NOOB S#&$ DESIGNED IT?

[DarkGuard01]

Ash: 

I personally didn't like watching bladestorm video clips, so I'm fine with his changes. However, that change also means that he loses the invincibility during bladestorm, which is a large nerf to his survivability that hinges now completely around smoke bomb. Smoke bomb has such a low base duration that it isn't really worth modding for, so I'd suggest increasing its base duration to maybe around 15 seconds like Loki's.

Atlas:

Landslide and Petrify are very useful and fun now, but I still see no point in using Tectonics - its too small to protect from anything reliably, dies too fast, and deals insignificant damage. Rumblers are just kinda there doing their thing and looking amusing, but are essentially nothing more than radial petrify - which is fine but a bit boring. Still a really good rework, though.

Banshee Augment:

Don't care, never used it to farm. Soundquake is still her worst ability, though. Locking a fragile support caster into a stationary casting animation, really? Maybe its worth using her ult with the new augment now.

Ember:

Well the only thing she had going for herself was the ability to speedrun Exterminate missions or low level defense, so I don't see the point of nerfing that. The underlying issue to me seems more the lack of veteran level content that makes highpowered veteran builds play low level missions like fissures, annoying new players by grouping very different mentalities and movement skill levels together.

Gara:

Whats her point? I don't understand what she is supposed to bring to the game: Her 1 and 2 are fine, her 3 is pointless because it is neither reliable cc nor damage - covers too small a size and breaks almost instantly at higher levels. Her 4th pretends to be a more offensive variant of Frost's snow globe, but it needs way too long to create the shield and the offensive use of that ability wears of very quickly and depends on a melee riven. 

Hydroid:
He's become great since his rework. He scales very nicely, has a useful niche in farm squads and is just overall fun.

Mirage:

Well the consolidation of her buff's duration is appreciated, and she still is a monster DPS frame, but the elephant in the room is her 4th ability. Ever since it got changed to require LoS its a very unreliable CC and frankly not worth modding for damage. I'd like to see that adressed in terms of what its intended function is supposed to be.

Mag:

Why is a fragile damage caster that relies on high end mods (corrupted) a starter frame? Mag can be very powerful, but only in the hands of an experienced player with decent pacour skills and an in-depth understanding of the interaction between her abilities and some weapons. Overall, she's in a pretty good state right now, but her 3rd ability scales extremly poorly, making the augment for it practically a requirement to get any use out of it. It doesn't need to do any health damage at all, I'd prefer having it reliably removing shields and armor in a few casts on any level of enemies. Her 4th could use a short stun on top of it, just for utility and to increase her low survivability a bit more, but thats about it. Oh and change the augment for her 4th, bc its useless. It does what her 3rd is supposed to do, is inferior to, for ex. banshees's 1st augment, oberon in general @armor stripping, in short, its inconsistant.

Rhino:

He's an overall very solid all-purpose warframe. All abilities are good and have their use.

Volt:

I personally prefered his 4th as an utility and cc ability, but I guess its a decent compromise.

Zephyr:

She's now a very solid frame especially for open maps. There's however one thing: Her tornadoes are very RNG and thus highly unreliable cc. With the augment this ability becomes a strong damage support ability, but loses cc, which is fine, but the base ability could use improvements to enemy suction radius (not being affected by power range - wtf), enemy hold capability when shot at and spawn behaviour. A high range build makes tornadoes spawn all over the place, and not on target center, which is annoying for cc.

CHROMA:

State your intentions: Is he supposed to be a group buffer like oberon or a tank, or a mixture of both? That so called "fix" to the calculation of vex armor has reduced his survivability by almost 80%, which I hate: It took me 6 forma to make him really powerful, and frankly, he needs that amount of EHP, because he has no way of healing himself without melee weapons. It is also baffling to me that tankyness had to take a hit, bc trinity has always been more tanky with the ability to heal herself, so where was the problem ?

But even considering him as an support frame: His 1st ability is now capable of dealing high amounts of damage, which is nice, but the range is still very underwhelming and the permanent channeling just isn't worth it, considering the energy cost of maintaining his 2nd and 3rd. Speaking of his 2nd and 3rd: Their range is a joke - every other support ability like Harrows 4th, or Trinitys 4th and so on have affinity range or stick to party members after cast (Rhino Roar). Even with range mods that support, while powerful, is way too inconvenient and restricts movement too much. As an side effect of this so called "formula fix" the only element worth using is now fire - ice is less effective for taking damage than fire, electricity interferes with his fury buff, and toxin, while powerful offensivly, reduces his survivability so much that stacking that vex armor buff gets really dicey. His Effigy is also way too weak. I'd personally like to see his 2nd and 3rd get affinity range, stick to teammates leaving effect area for the remaining duration and have his 2nd recastable. His other elements, like mentioned earlier, need a complete overhaul and could use combining in a Ivara quiver like ability, so he can switch elements during a mission. Right now, he's in a very sad state. He can do nothing, that other frames can't do better.

Edited March 26, 2018 by DarkGuard01