The starting frames need to change

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

A lotnifnpeople keep saying Mag and Volt are bad for new players and yet, there are several people who had those when they were new saying it's not as bad as it's being made out.

Yep, totally agree. I’ll admit, when I first started, I picked Volt as my starter frame. After a little while, I thought he was an awful Warframe, I had got Rhino fully built a little later. I had then sold Volt since I didn’t have the knowledge back then of how Volt was a good warframe with the right mods.

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Maybe the assumption that new players are idiots, incapable of reading, reasoning or thinking is the primary issue and not the Warframes.

That is a big part of that, yes. You’re not wrong at all.

[BETAOPTICS]

I think they are based on more simple design choices. Someone like Ivara that starts with 1st ability being a quarter function (4 different types) can be an UI and function complexion overkill for a new player. I think to that end Volt, Mag and Excalibur or fairly straight forward. Though Rhino is not a bad choice I think. 

[SneakyErvin]

There are a few straight forward frames that could work as starters.

Frost, Ash, Trinity, Ember, Oberon and Saryn are those that come to mind. None of them need any specific mods to work alright and their gameplay is pretty straight forward. And then obviously there is Rhino, but no, I wouldnt wanna see him as a starter, he is the ultimate spoil-frame due to his Iron Skin. 

The only reason I picked Excal to start with isnt because he was the most tanky of them, it was because he was apparently the most annoying of the 3 to unlock later on. If that wouldnt have been a thing I would have picked Volt as a starter.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

I think they are based on more simple design choices. Someone like Ivara that starts with 1st ability being a quarter function (4 different types) can be an UI and function complexion overkill for a new player. I think to that end Volt, Mag and Excalibur or fairly straight forward. Though Rhino is not a bad choice I think. 

If you consider the very first thing that you have to do when you start controlling your frame, Ivara and a few other frames just aren't a good choice.  This is due to not having a damaging/killing first ability.  

Taking this into consideration while also offering a female frame as a choice, Mag is actually one of if not the best choice as one of the starter frames.  

[Ashkateer]

Hey there.

I was just looking through the forums and came across this post. I'm an Atlas main myself, I've used him and loved him before his rework came into place. I 100% agree that he is an excellent frame to use, he has very good survivability and is incredibly tanky. I'll be going over each and everything about him from his theme to some changes I'd like to see. So, allow me to express my opinions on why this frame is "solid".

Ok, so here they are:

Theme: Since Atlas' appearance is based on a boxer, his "rocky" theme suits him perfectly.

Passive: His passive is probably the BEST passive in the WHOLE game. It's very very good. DE please don't change it :P

Landslide: His most used ability and it's AMAZING. However, rag-dolling enemies on every 3'rd hit can get pretty annoying at times and you have to move around trying to kill one enemy so I'd like to see that changed.

Tectonics: Not a bad power, can be pretty useful at times (index, blocking doorways, etc). But, I do have a suggestion: Tectonics should be replaced with Petrify since it has an excellent synergy with Landslide and since it's used a lot, that low energy cost can be very beneficial.

Petrify: This ability is EXCELLENT. Literary "freezing" enemies is very good. And plus you deal EXTRA damage to those enemies. And like I said before, this ability should be replaced with Tectonics since Tectonics isn't nearly as much used as Petrify.

And last but not the least, my sex slaves...UHHHH... I mean minions Rumblers: Pretty good ability, useful at times, should stay where it's at.

 

Also, here's my "One Man Punching Killing Machine" build. Feel free to copy it, give me suggestions (always welcomed). NOTE: All my mods aren't maxed so I will take about 2 forma when maxed.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Atlas/t_30_3420000020_2-5-10-3-8-5-19-1-10-55-3-5-411-2-10-479-4-8-481-0-8-613-9-5-857-7-5-860-6-3_481-6-19-7-411-8-55-11-479-12-2-12-860-5-857-7-3-18-613-9_0/en/1-0-39

 

Since his Landslide is based on your melee MODS (not base stats), I like to use Fragor Prime with all impact mods for best results.

And as always, here's my build. Again, feel free to copy, give me suggestions and all that good stuff.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Fragor_Prime/t_30_200000002_226-1-5-266-6-3-305-8-3-486-4-8-531-3-5-637-2-8-733-0-8-865-5-8_733-6-226-9-637-12-531-11-486-10-865-14-266-7-f-f-305-10/en/4-0-103

 

Thank you, Tenno!

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Ashkateer said:

Hey there.

I was just looking through the forums and came across this post. I'm an Atlas main myself, I've used him and loved him before his rework came into place. I 100% agree that he is an excellent frame to use, he has very good survivability and is incredibly tanky. I'll be going over each and everything about him from his theme to some changes I'd like to see. So, allow me to express my opinions on why this frame is "solid".

Ok, so here they are:

Theme: Since Atlas' appearance is based on a boxer, his "rocky" theme suits him perfectly.

Passive: His passive is probably the BEST passive in the WHOLE game. It's very very good. DE please don't change it :P

Landslide: His most used ability and it's AMAZING. However, rag-dolling enemies on every 3'rd hit can get pretty annoying at times and you have to move around trying to kill one enemy so I'd like to see that changed.

Tectonics: Not a bad power, can be pretty useful at times (index, blocking doorways, etc). But, I do have a suggestion: Tectonics should be replaced with Petrify since it has an excellent synergy with Landslide and since it's used a lot, that low energy cost can be very beneficial.

Petrify: This ability is EXCELLENT. Literary "freezing" enemies is very good. And plus you deal EXTRA damage to those enemies. And like I said before, this ability should be replaced with Tectonics since Tectonics isn't nearly as much used as Petrify.

And last but not the least, my sex slaves...UHHHH... I mean minions Rumblers: Pretty good ability, useful at times, should stay where it's at.

 

Also, here's my "One Man Punching Killing Machine" build. Feel free to copy it, give me suggestions (always welcomed). NOTE: All my mods aren't maxed so I will take about 2 forma when maxed.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Atlas/t_30_3420000020_2-5-10-3-8-5-19-1-10-55-3-5-411-2-10-479-4-8-481-0-8-613-9-5-857-7-5-860-6-3_481-6-19-7-411-8-55-11-479-12-2-12-860-5-857-7-3-18-613-9_0/en/1-0-39

 

Since his Landslide is based on your melee MODS (not base stats), I like to use Fragor Prime with all impact mods for best results.

And as always, here's my build. Again, feel free to copy, give me suggestions and all that good stuff.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Fragor_Prime/t_30_200000002_226-1-5-266-6-3-305-8-3-486-4-8-531-3-5-637-2-8-733-0-8-865-5-8_733-6-226-9-637-12-531-11-486-10-865-14-266-7-f-f-305-10/en/4-0-103

 

Thank you, Tenno!

Are you...advocating for Atlas to be a starter or...?

[Ashkateer]

He can be a great starter but I'm just saying why he can be very very good and how to use him.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

I don’t really ever get the argument of Mag being complex.

Pull: Kills things, rag dolls enemies towards you.

Magnetize: Redirects bullets, explodes if enemy dies, kills things.

Polarize: Kills things, makes enemies somewhat weaker

Crush: Kills things, gives you shields.

Really, new players don’t need to know all the niuances of Mag to succeed in low levels.

[Bao]

All three current starter frames provide some measure of difficulty and playstyle that DE considers for new players. Excalibur was moved from Pluto to Mars for easier farming and Trinity to pluto because Trinity is a frame that requires game knowledge and mods to make useful in a number of builds. This erases the argument people make to pick Excal over the other two, simply because he'll be a hard frame to farm for and he has better power creep of the three for early start chart clearing. 

 

Volt provides an incredible amount of CC, even without mods. He has a shield that blocks incoming damage, a speed buff, and an AoE discharge that can lock down a room even with damaged mods. His mechanics are straightforward as well, perhaps not nearly as clear as Excalibur but it is offset by his versatility. 

 

Mag is the most "difficult" of the three starter frames. Yes, she starts off as fairly squishy due to lower armor and her kit is not the most optimal for learning general combat. She also does not showcase her power until players invest more time into her (and down the road, weapons to exemplify her skillset.) And many people probably wouldnt touch Mag if she weren't a part of the starters. 

 

However she does provide players who crave a sense of challenge in games. She is an excellent frame for those who enjoy researching and learning about things before diving head in. She teaches you how to manipulate the map, to stay on the move and to position yourself accordingly. She doesn't dash in and nuke the room like Volt or Excalibur, but her kit can lead to players understanding the enemies more and what it takes to take them down aside from just shooting and hacking and slashing. She is Warframe's version of a caster, or mage, where you have good potential in your skills and you're a very squishy player. 

 

I started off with Mag and have not regretted it since. So I might be a bit more biased towards her, but as a starter frame she provides an excellent opportunity for players to be rewarded for time invested into her. I have friends who say the same about Excalibur, how he's the best frame and can handle enemies past level 300. Same with Volt, who can obliterate rooms with a single 4 cast. 

 

Mag just takes a little longer to get there, but does just as well as they do and differently. 

[viperveteran]

A lot of this game is based on learning and earning, if you give new players rhino from the beginning what will they learn from him and when they step out of the newbie creche what would be their reward. At the moment rhino is the reward for the newbies, they see him quite early and they are incentivesed to get to MR 5 to unlock him. So I would say no to rhino.

However if I were to change the starter frames I would say that ash would probably be the best candidate.

[(XBOX)KelperTheTurkey]

10 minutes ago, Bao said:

Mag is the most "difficult" of the three starter frames. Yes, she starts off as fairly squishy due to lower armor and her kit is not the most optimal for learning general combat.

I agree with you that Mag is squishy early on, but her first ability does offer a good and cheap CC for new players.  This makes Mag a good low level defense frame and offers a contingency for when they get backed into a corner. 

Also Mag's passive is pretty useful early on when newer players that don't have a sentinel or vacuum mod. This point isn't very relevant but thought I should throw it out there.

 

18 minutes ago, Bao said:

All three current starter frames provide some measure of difficulty and playstyle that DE considers for new players.

I 100% agree with this. Me and my friend have come up with a pretty nice description of each frame for when a friend first starts playing.

Excalibur- Light tank and Good CC / Easy

Mag- Good CC but low survivablilty/ Medium

Volt- Supportive with some CC/ Hard

Note: I am aware of how good Volt's 4th is. But considering someone's just starting out, they won't have access to the extensive modding which makes Volt's 4th amazing.

 

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Excalibur, Mag and Volt are great starter frames.

All three are fairly capable, especially Excal, and are excellent learning opportunities in terms of kit-building and game-play. The point of starter frames is to be able to introduce the player to how the game functions and the three current ones do that well. Excal is simple and robust with an easy to understand kit focused around melee, Mag represents the potential for enemy debuffing and ally support while Volt offers mechanical buffing and crowd-control. I'd wager an additional fourth 'stealth' option with Banshee would be interesting since stealth and enemy awareness is an important tool to learn as well as her having a damage-dealing first ability.

[BrazilianJoe]

I don't know why the starter frames need to be limited to three. 

I for one picked up Loki as my starter, back in the day where he was available. 

I think Oberon would be a nice option for a starter frame, as an offensive support healer frame.

Ash as a stealthy killer would be a good option too. 

I think they should be additions to starter frames, not replacements.

 

[BrazilianJoe]

double post, pls delete

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by BrazilianJoe

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Even these 'starter' frames are capable of endgame content, and are by no means bad.

I most of all think these should stay due to their extraordinary passives.

Volts next attack gets bonus electric damage due to running, most new players don't get down the parkour immediately and thus this 'accidentaly' will aid them through the start.

For those that do manage to get bullet jumping down, Mag is a looter and any new player will appreciate this until Vacuum. Mag isn't bad, but IMO has seen better days.

I personally think Excalibur only remains here due to lore and the love of his original creation. He is a immensely powerful frame, even without his Exaulted blade his passive for sword is of minor help, but is still that much more in the moment it's needed. But blinding enemies does technically put him in the stealth category it requires more finess than the faceroll stealth that is Ivara. This offers room to learn though.

If I were to replace all of the current Warframe for a relatively equal trade off I would choose:

Excalibur for Inaros - Inaros is the absolute best solo Warframe, and can dish out almost anything that is needed from him, with similar blinding options, and healing finnishers he's perfect. He has a slight disadvantage for new players though, not having a safegaurd shield would be a learning curve and no rage mod ultimately would be a heck of a task.

Mag for Oberon - He holds the same CC title, and can heal. Enemies killed by his 4th drop health orbs making for a well based starting frame. However his buffs are still unknown to players today. I believe sponsorship obtaining a new Warframe there should be a codex option for complex tutorial overview of individual warframes. Which is shown to new players after ranking to 30 for the first time.

Volt for Nezha - Really not holding back here all the same speed and damage just in a different strategic manner, it would still offer the more complex end of the game while giving new players a fast paced experience, without the energy cost for speed.

I did/didn't pickWarframes that at one point or currently are basically shoved down the players neck, in some way or another. But I don't actually recommend switching them. Maybe add 1 more choice to the roster, we are getting loads of Warframes it wouldn't hurt to add a more practical defense frame or healing type. If I were to add just one more, I'd put Loki back. What sucked back in the day was you had to add the Warframes ability like a mod, and Loki was defenseless and many players never figured the ability system out. Loki is fine today more OP late game with appropriate mods. But fine for newcommers.

[midtarget]

Ivara? She cheeses things and both her and rhino don't properly train new players in mechanics, (invisibility reliance and extra health)not to mention the tutorial needs a damaging first ability

[Lemniscatey]

3 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

I don’t really ever get the argument of Mag being complex.

Pull: Kills things, rag dolls enemies towards you.

Magnetize: Redirects bullets, explodes if enemy dies, kills things.

Polarize: Kills things, makes enemies somewhat weaker

Crush: Kills things, gives you shields.

Really, new players don’t need to know all the niuances of Mag to succeed in low levels.

She is a very bad choice, since barely anyone from the newbies will go read the wiki. I've seen some cases of people up to mr 14 with absolutely no knowledge about the frames they are playing. A good example would be the spore on molt Saryn build everyone sees once in a while, which is extremely boring and bad.

Back to Mag - her build does require at least a fleeting expertise to make her useful. Having spamable 2 and 3 is what makes or breaks the game for a newbie. Not to mention the red herrings that require a lot of testing and general experience to be avoided. Examples would be that building high duration is actually harmful and playing the "place bubble on a chokepoint" game is not nearly as useful without at least 160 range. Then there's the fact that you don't have a single good weapon that can stack the bubbles in the early game and the other fact that nobody's willing to learn how to play a squishy caster - everyone just rushes the Rhino and puts Mag on the shelf.

[TheRealDestian]

I think the starter frames are fine but it'd be nice if they rounded it out with a 2nd female frame to give players 4 to choose from.

Edited March 7, 2018 by TheRealDestian

[Flames21891]

Remember when you could choose Loki as your starter frame? Yeah, DE wants to avoid more of that.

It might seem tempting to give players access to the most straightforward frames at the start but, like many people have pointed out, some would allow players to cheese their way through most of the star chart without learning more proper gameplay techniques, or going after and leveling necessary mods. Plus, you also want the players to have a very good reason for wanting other frames. It's kind of a nice little gameplay loop they have right now. The current starter frames will get you through most of the starchart content just fine, but as you use new frames you'll come to find that there are much better alternatives at that level of play. So most players will shelve or sell their starter frames until they get a decent arsenal of mods and such, and especially when they start growing their Prime collection, they'll eventually come back to their starter frame and realize all the potential it actually has if given the right mods.

For the low-mid starchart content, your weapons are going to be doing the majority of the work anyways. There aren't many frames that can do anything impressive without a good stable of mods first.

[Ragnarok160]

6 hours ago, MagPrime said:

This is gonna come across as snarky but...

Just because you don't like the frame or understand it, doesn't mean it's bad. 

 

naw its fine, mag is a good frame, she has great dps and support abilities, i'm talking form a new player perspective that her abilities can be confusing for them

[MagPrime]

24 minutes ago, Ragnarok160 said:

naw its fine, mag is a good frame, she has great dps and support abilities, i'm talking form a new player perspective that her abilities can be confusing for them

Only if they don't read or think.

[Rekkou]

Starter frame isn't there to make the game easier, they're there to make players learn the game. If you put Ivara as starter frame, stealth mission can be cheesed too easily, it'll just spoil new players. Making them unable to do stealth with any other frames. Rhino made low level too easy, cast iron skin once and you can just tank enemies barrage, they'll never learn how to dodge or take cover and then whine later on that other frames are too squishy. Excalibur, Volt, and Mag sits perfectly as starters, not because they are perfect, but because learning how to use them well will make you a better player

[KochDerFrettchen]

Seems like pointless troll thread tbh.  Starter frames are gude.

[hellodownthere]

the starter frames should be easy to use and easy to understand frames 

1. Excalibur -  is always will be a starter its just a fact (not that you ever said that he should be changed)

2. Mag - might be a bit too hard for players as for her to shine she needs mods that would otherwise take the new player potentially months the get

3. Volt - i don't play Volt that much but i think there needs to be a roundedness to a starter, Excalibur has the blind and Volt has his 4 for stuns and his... 2 ? erm his shield for defense and it also give it more dmg IIRC

 

the only frame i think needs to change is Mag the other 2 are fine but as to what to change that too ? hmm lets see

Frames that could replace Mag:

Frost, he's a nice rounded frame with ok damage and a defense ability

Rhino, the tank, the best buffer in the game... wait is he better then chroma? cause he has an aura now... this must be tested!!

 

hmm can't really think of that many ok lets take away all of the quest frames: Atlas, Chroma, Gara, Harrow, Inaros, Limbo, Mesa (i think), Mirage, Nidus, Octavia, Titania thats it so what we're left with is:

 

Ash, Banshee, Ember, Equinox, Frost, Hydroid, Ivara, Loki, Nekros, Nezha, Nova, Nyx, Oberon, Rhino, Saryn, Trinity, Valkyr, Vauban, Wukong and Zephyr 

^^ what one of these would you like to replace Volt/Mag^^

[hellodownthere]

1 hour ago, KochDerFrettchen said:

Seems like pointless troll thread tbh.  Starter frames are gude.

my starter was loki then they removed him cause he was too advanced for a new player... i laugh every time i think about i, too advanced oh! how laughable.