NERF EMBER but why not (TRINITY+CASTANAS)

[moooooski]

Thank you guys i read all your views/points at the end i am not asking for a hard nerf all i am saying is to do something nerf castans or the range of link or the aviator mod so that the room clearing/nukeing in a short time goes away thats all. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by moooooski

[NukeSpear]

5 hours ago, LightningsVengance said:

You're thinking wrong. Nerf everything. Every Thing  (even the amazing soundtracks and op visuals)

You're thinking wrong as well. Nerf everything that works. Even better, use a bot that digs into player's brains and find out the next good build or strategy, and nerf it before it's even tested.

[rune_me]

8 hours ago, Avynire said:

Trin castana only work for low-mid (<80) to be effective. Even in sortie with armor, element, or shield enchant modifier make the link castana rather useless. 

lvl <80 is like 95% of the games content. So I wouldn't use the word "only" in that context.

[LightningsVengance]

4 hours ago, NukeSpear said:

You're thinking wrong as well. Nerf everything that works. Even better, use a bot that digs into player's brains and find out the next good build or strategy, and nerf it before it's even tested.

You my good sir... Are a genius.

[(XBOX)DeadlyHoz]

Ok, I agree with the post and totally disagree with the guys that said that is not a game breaker, I was waiting for Sanctuary onslaught and finally is here, play the normal one until I got Khora, then I decided to go for the elite and the weapons(Barton and lato), my nuance was watching me play and I notice the guy doing the link+database thing and how fast he was killing everything, I stopped for a moment and notice that my Saryn-melee was doing nothing, he kept the efficiency at 99% by itself. The final result was Trinity:2000 kills, saryn(me)=400, Nova=150. The worst thing was seeing my niece laughing saying that the guy jumping like a frog kills more bad guys than me(heart breaking).

I know there's always a new nuke(ember, saryn, banshee,etc) but at least those were doing something that look like a space ninja killing enemies, not jumping like a frog.

 

NEEEEEERRRRRRRRFFFFF it fast.

[Klokwerkaos]

On 2018-04-04 at 3:44 AM, NukeSpear said:

You're thinking wrong as well. Nerf everything that works. Even better, use a bot that digs into player's brains and find out the next good build or strategy, and nerf it before it's even tested.

This.

In order to do this properly you need to:  Have primed mods, trinity (or prime) have an elite weapon locked behind a top tier syndicate, have a god tier riven for it with a very specific roll that will probably cost you around 10-15k platinum, specialized augment mods, have a specific sentinel and build equipped, and the use of this ability is reliant on GENERIC MODS (which literally most anyone has to do the heavy lifting), not the ability itself which otherwise doesn't work this way, and still requires a constantly maintained and active playstyle that isn't a lame ass macro.  Ember on the other hand you need to:  Not even finish the main story to get (and to be honest I wasn't happy about the ember nerf either).  But by all means, nerf everything that works into the ground and don't give players anything to work towards to do anything efficiently ever.  Hell, why not make the game so generic it is a clone of Destiny 2, I'm sure that would go over well.  OP, take your nonsense and flush it.

Very clearly:  You can't have it both ways.  Either the game is allowed to be "fun" (as you might call it) for some people while also being super generic and bland (a la destiny 2, RIP) or it's allowed to have something to work towards to be more efficient, and here's the thing, if there is no way to be efficient, then the next gripe is "there is no way to farm this!!!!" which is also a thread on this same page of threads.  Who is right?  Neither.  The build is fine, stop complaining that people that invest a 1000 hours into the game can do better than someone that invests 100.  That's called rewarding the player for sticking around, and if you don't have it in the game at some level, and all you have is generic bullS#&amp;&#036;, the game will die, just like destiny 2 did, because players won't stick with it to build the coolest and most powerful stuff when they can just see the content and gtfo out after 100 hours because the game then lacks the complexity to think and make interesting builds that are more effective.  That in itself is the beauty of warframe.  

I'm all for nerfing the right stuff.  I can't wait for the maiming atterax macro to go away with the new melee system (and no i'm not salty because I don't have it, I do, I just don't use it because I'm not a cheese machine), but this is something entirely different.  It requires MASSIVE investment.  Additionally, there will always be a new build, forever, that will be better than others, unless you make everything static and even and remove the customization elements of the game that actually make it unique and interesting.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[NaoEthelia]

Literally, all they have to do was to nerf Aviator from 40% to 30%... until a tiny wee bit of damage goes to Trinity.

[CalculatedMurderMachine]

It is sad to see fluent speakers of English brutally take this guy down for a very valid point he makes. Note; those that are against him are the ones using the play style and want to be proud of their 2k Castana riven and Nuking Trinity. Jump click repeat, 40m range kills was not what DE wanted.(including the investment yes) The guy has a valid point and y'all are just so mad its getting popular because oh you want your slide2win red crit atterax to work. See what happened?  I'm not against removing favorite play styles or against any of you doing your business but at least treat the guy nicely and throw valid points at him

Not things like

Go solo

Don't play then

Nerf everything then

 

 

[-RNA-]

This just shows that those who use this build know what they are doing for someone to even say it is "game breaking", if it takes all that preparation for the build to work why nerf?.. For me atleast if im farming for hours and then i get into a group with a trin using this build im glad, cause i can relax for the duration of the mission.

[Klokwerkaos]

15 minutes ago, CalcualtedMurderMachine said:

It is sad to see fluent speakers of English brutally take this guy down for a very valid point he makes. Note; those that are against him are the ones using the play style and want to be proud of their 2k Castana riven and Nuking Trinity. Jump click repeat, 40m range kills was not what DE wanted.(including the investment yes) The guy has a valid point and y'all are just so mad its getting popular because oh you want your slide2win red crit atterax to work. See what happened?  I'm not against removing favorite play styles or against any of you doing your business but at least treat the guy nicely and throw valid points at him

Not things like

Go solo

Don't play then

Nerf everything then

 

 

I like how you ignore all the points I made while saying right after I make my case that people are "ignoring his point".  Nah fam.  Nah

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2018-04-03 at 4:17 AM, moooooski said:

So you guys saw Ember went through a serious nerf main thing (RANGE) got nerfed cause it killed all enemies thats what (DE) said but why do not nerf the same thing range nerf on TRINITY as u see now a days the new so called meta (TRINITY+CASTANAS) jump and shoot while activateing link her 3rd abilt and all things die before i get to make a kill nerf this thing i cant kill a single enemy because of that pls rethink this what i said and take proper action its takeing the fun out 
thank you 

Suffer a disaster is not an excuse for more disasters. Out.

[therealDG]

NERF EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

im quittin this game, been real.

[CalculatedMurderMachine]

36 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I like how you ignore all the points I made while saying right after I make my case that people are "ignoring his point".  Nah fam.  Nah

Example in particular was not targeted towards you.

You, atleast gave good points, and reasoned out against why you might like it

Then again, I don't support either side

 

[-BA-NeoNexus5]

Sorry ...

but i not sure about transfer your self damage to enemy while using link is what DE planned for Trinity's link tho...

as Nukong is dead... even make me worry about trinity + castanas can be next...

 

Just hope it not gonna happen..... 

 

 

 

[Klokwerkaos]

2 hours ago, CalcualtedMurderMachine said:

Example in particular was not targeted towards you.

You, atleast gave good points, and reasoned out against why you might like it

Then again, I don't support either side

 

I can respect that.  I personally don't like the concept that we should ever cater to the lowest common denominator and make everything even, fair and easy.  This is what made destiny 2 the generic trash it was.  Apart from the lootbox issues which DE is very good about by contrast, in Destiny 2 there was no customization and modding to speak of, it was generic, boring, and predictably died shortly after launch because people tired of the content.

When warframe and other games of the past are at their best it's because they aren't trying to cater to the LCD, because they allow players to innovate and bring new strategies to the table that perhaps they didn't predict.  In some cases these things are broken beyond belief and need fixing, in other cases it's simply using the strategies put out there in creative ways.

This strategy in particular is one of the most advanced ones I've seen managed in warframe because it is dependent upon so much that takes so much to come together, unlike ember where dropping efficiency and range her old build was more or less a no brainer and could be done easily by anyone who hadn't even completed the star chart, and that said, i still think her old build was better because at least she had a use (clearing under level 30), now she just sits in the closet and does nothing because she's not especially good at anything, and why not use the most effective tool for the job unless we're in the mood to handicap ourselves for the challenge? 

I think it's entirely valid that we shouldn't always have to want to handicap ourselves and be equivalent to a day one player, sometimes we actually, you know, want to be the most bad ass space ninja, and I think that should be OK in warframe.  

This strategy takes a lot of time, effort and energy to craft and a lot of ingenuity to create to begin with.  I just don't see nerfing something to oblivion just because it's effective, especially when it's behind a wall that is nigh impossible for most of the player base to achieve, not because of complexity, but simply because they haven't put in the time to acquire it.  Simply put, nothing in warframe is hard... like never.  This game is super easy.  The hard part is putting in the time to EARN what you want, and I feel like when you take away the ability for long time players to earn something worthwhile every time they create a new strategy that is useful, they get bored and they leave, not because of rage quitting, but because of how dumbed down everything gets, which makes the game uncomplex and overall boring.

I want to be clear I'm not against change, I'm against catering to the LCD, which is why I support getting rid of the maiming atterax macro, and why I'm skeptical about the Saryn changes, but hopeful.  I see it as a real opportunity to make the character more engaging, but the real question for me is "will she still be viable for ESO clearing?" And if the answer is no, then it starts to look like a nerf for nerf's sake because they took away the thing she was good at without replacing it with a different job for the frame, which is what happened with Ember.  I wouldn't have been mad if Ember's WoF went away and they replaced her job as something else, but instead they just took away what she was good at and castrated the frame, which is an overall lose for the frame, for the playerbase, and by extention, DE.

Catering to every player that doesn't like that someone else gets to be more powerful than then who has 20x the time in they do, that's not something I'll ever get behind, because it's not like the stuff used to build it is EXCLUSIVE.  Not at all.  All of it can be earned with time and for free and very importantly these are generic trash mods that do the heavy lifting on this build which is pretty creative if you ask me.  Seriously when else is aviator used?  Like almost never unless you slot it because you don't understand modding at all and are just trying to fill the mod screen up and that one starts with A so it's towards the front of the pile.

I guess what I'm saying is, lets not destroy all of the AoE clear frames just because the newbies want to run around spamming exalted blade or use a maiming atterax macro forever and can't keep up.  AoE is what makes caster frames caster frames, and if we make it underpowered then that won't matter either because we can just then all get used to spamming exalted blade as the new meta until someone cries about that and eventually all warframes are the same and are completely statistically equivalent and generic and have only the weakest capacity to specialize at anything at all.

Additionally, ESO is a place for AoE clear frames to do what they do well.  It's a job they can be good at (Equinox, Saryn, Nova and Trinity).  There is literally nothing stopping the other players from achieving the same results if they put the time in to create this very complex build, except their desire to earn it.  I don't think players should be punished for creating new strategies by invalidating the strategy into the ground, particularly when one requires this much investment.  They worry about people being mad about investing in stance mods with endo and a couple mods for changing melee, this build is infinitely more expensive in time to acquire and if we care about 1 player's investment we should care about another's, because if we don't, then we're either picking favorites, or we're catering to the LCD, and neither is a good look.

[MortalMortom]

Crying in a PVE game because you aren't being the most efficient 😚

[FashionFrame]

9 minutes ago, MortalMortom said:

Crying in a PVE game because you aren't being the most efficient 😚

When it comes down to it, watching someone do all the killing and work is boring as hell. Not a difficult concept. Same reasons why they changed world on fire, bladestorm, synoid spammulor and more. 

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I guess what I'm saying is, lets not destroy all of the AoE clear frames just because the newbies want to run around spamming exalted blade or use a maiming atterax macro forever and can't keep up.  AoE is what makes caster frames caster frames, and if we make it underpowered then that won't matter either because we can just then all get used to spamming exalted blade as the new meta until someone cries about that and eventually all warframes are the same and are completely statistically equivalent and generic and have only the weakest capacity to specialize at anything at all.

DE has no problem with AOE frame. But it is clear that they don't like frames/builds that can just stand in one spot and kill things. That's why they are changing Saryn. That's why the nerfed Ember. That's why they change Basnhee (though it didn't really work with banshee, so expect a new change sometime in the future). This has been DE's MO for a long time now, and it's not going away. It has nothing to do with how difficult it was to build or how long it takes to get the mods. It's purely a matter of the playstyle.

You can't really say "let's not destroy" because it isn't us that destroyed anything or make these decisions. It's the developers, and they have a pretty clear vision about how they want their game to be played and has stuck to it stubbornly, even when it wasn't always for the best (lets be honest). If you like the super efficient stand in the center of a map and clear everything around you playstyle, then chances are you will hate it and get upset whenever DE makes chances, because that's the playstyle they are trying their damnest to get rid of. 

You can easily point to a couple of other frames and builds that will almost certainly get a change/rework/nerf in the future because of this. And yes, I wouldn't get to attached the Trinity nuke build either.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Idk whether I should laugh at or pity this thread

[JDxBarracka]

Its the  NERF TRINITY thread again

Oh man trinity so OP 🙂

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

The nerf mob has their pitchforks out again, I see. Frothing at the mouth about fun in this game and trying to force the one and only proper true play style on everybody. 

It is like a mob of religious zealots. 

 

 

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

*snip*

Isn't it funny that you always without fail enter every single nerf thread in defense of the cries for nerfs and attacking the people who do not want something to be nerfed eventually ending with your asinine signature platitude of "only DE decides".

Yet somehow this same faux neutrality position you cultivate only applies to those who do not want yet another nerf but never ever against anybody who whines and cries for unnecessary nerfs. 

....hmmm....

[CalculatedMurderMachine]

3 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I can respect that.  I personally don't like the concept that we should ever cater to the lowest common denominator and make everything even, fair and easy.  This is what made destiny 2 the generic trash it was.  Apart from the lootbox issues which DE is very good about by contrast, in Destiny 2 there was no customization and modding to speak of, it was generic, boring, and predictably died shortly after launch because people tired of the content.

When warframe and other games of the past are at their best it's because they aren't trying to cater to the LCD, because they allow players to innovate and bring new strategies to the table that perhaps they didn't predict.  In some cases these things are broken beyond belief and need fixing, in other cases it's simply using the strategies put out there in creative ways.

This strategy in particular is one of the most advanced ones I've seen managed in warframe because it is dependent upon so much that takes so much to come together, unlike ember where dropping efficiency and range her old build was more or less a no brainer and could be done easily by anyone who hadn't even completed the star chart, and that said, i still think her old build was better because at least she had a use (clearing under level 30), now she just sits in the closet and does nothing because she's not especially good at anything, and why not use the most effective tool for the job unless we're in the mood to handicap ourselves for the challenge? 

I think it's entirely valid that we shouldn't always have to want to handicap ourselves and be equivalent to a day one player, sometimes we actually, you know, want to be the most bad ass space ninja, and I think that should be OK in warframe.  

This strategy takes a lot of time, effort and energy to craft and a lot of ingenuity to create to begin with.  I just don't see nerfing something to oblivion just because it's effective, especially when it's behind a wall that is nigh impossible for most of the player base to achieve, not because of complexity, but simply because they haven't put in the time to acquire it.  Simply put, nothing in warframe is hard... like never.  This game is super easy.  The hard part is putting in the time to EARN what you want, and I feel like when you take away the ability for long time players to earn something worthwhile every time they create a new strategy that is useful, they get bored and they leave, not because of rage quitting, but because of how dumbed down everything gets, which makes the game uncomplex and overall boring.

I want to be clear I'm not against change, I'm against catering to the LCD, which is why I support getting rid of the maiming atterax macro, and why I'm skeptical about the Saryn changes, but hopeful.  I see it as a real opportunity to make the character more engaging, but the real question for me is "will she still be viable for ESO clearing?" And if the answer is no, then it starts to look like a nerf for nerf's sake because they took away the thing she was good at without replacing it with a different job for the frame, which is what happened with Ember.  I wouldn't have been mad if Ember's WoF went away and they replaced her job as something else, but instead they just took away what she was good at and castrated the frame, which is an overall lose for the frame, for the playerbase, and by extention, DE.

Catering to every player that doesn't like that someone else gets to be more powerful than then who has 20x the time in they do, that's not something I'll ever get behind, because it's not like the stuff used to build it is EXCLUSIVE.  Not at all.  All of it can be earned with time and for free and very importantly these are generic trash mods that do the heavy lifting on this build which is pretty creative if you ask me.  Seriously when else is aviator used?  Like almost never unless you slot it because you don't understand modding at all and are just trying to fill the mod screen up and that one starts with A so it's towards the front of the pile.

I guess what I'm saying is, lets not destroy all of the AoE clear frames just because the newbies want to run around spamming exalted blade or use a maiming atterax macro forever and can't keep up.  AoE is what makes caster frames caster frames, and if we make it underpowered then that won't matter either because we can just then all get used to spamming exalted blade as the new meta until someone cries about that and eventually all warframes are the same and are completely statistically equivalent and generic and have only the weakest capacity to specialize at anything at all.

Additionally, ESO is a place for AoE clear frames to do what they do well.  It's a job they can be good at (Equinox, Saryn, Nova and Trinity).  There is literally nothing stopping the other players from achieving the same results if they put the time in to create this very complex build, except their desire to earn it.  I don't think players should be punished for creating new strategies by invalidating the strategy into the ground, particularly when one requires this much investment.  They worry about people being mad about investing in stance mods with endo and a couple mods for changing melee, this build is infinitely more expensive in time to acquire and if we care about 1 player's investment we should care about another's, because if we don't, then we're either picking favorites, or we're catering to the LCD, and neither is a good look.

+1

I agree with you but would like to add; the reason DE is so insistent on nerfing things is because player retention. If I discover this nuketrin build and I am willing to put in effort, eventually it develops into a meta. Then people clear the starchart using only trin + castana and nothing else. This will not be very profitable for them DEV wise. Hence the nerfs to reduce the meta's that are large AoE clearers

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

DE has no problem with AOE frame. But it is clear that they don't like frames/builds that can just stand in one spot and kill things. That's why they are changing Saryn. That's why the nerfed Ember. That's why they change Basnhee (though it didn't really work with banshee, so expect a new change sometime in the future). This has been DE's MO for a long time now, and it's not going away. It has nothing to do with how difficult it was to build or how long it takes to get the mods. It's purely a matter of the playstyle.

You can't really say "let's not destroy" because it isn't us that destroyed anything or make these decisions. It's the developers, and they have a pretty clear vision about how they want their game to be played and has stuck to it stubbornly, even when it wasn't always for the best (lets be honest). If you like the super efficient stand in the center of a map and clear everything around you playstyle, then chances are you will hate it and get upset whenever DE makes chances, because that's the playstyle they are trying their damnest to get rid of. 

You can easily point to a couple of other frames and builds that will almost certainly get a change/rework/nerf in the future because of this. And yes, I wouldn't get to attached the Trinity nuke build either.

You see, you say this, right after DE released Onslaught, a mode which is specifically dedicated to standing in the middle of a tile for two minutes at a time spamming Resonating Quake, or playing Octavia and just rolling your face across the keyboard, before you jump through a portal and do it again.

 

Like, bro. Onslaught has been designed from the ground up to so strongly reward the specific gameplay style that DE say they want to avoid that I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the play percentages of Banshee, Octavia, and Equinox have noticeably jumped since its introduction. This is like trying to encourage safe driving by banning seatbelts and making everyone have tequila for breakfast. It is asinine to insist that this is part of some kind of coherent strategy from DE.

 

tl;dr “DE are determined to get rid of afk spam meta! That’s why they made an entire mode for it where it’s awesome wait what no-”

[Midrib]

3 hours ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Isn't it funny that you always without fail enter every single nerf thread in defense of the cries for nerfs and attacking the people who do not want something to be nerfed eventually ending with your asinine signature platitude of "only DE decides".

Yet somehow this same faux neutrality position you cultivate only applies to those who do not want yet another nerf but never ever against anybody who whines and cries for unnecessary nerfs. 

....hmmm....

Isn't it equally as funny that you would point that out, while simultaneously being in every nerf thread attacking people who want to have the same fun as you without using the same brainless cheesy setup and being made completely irrelevant by it just because they had the misfortune of playing with you.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Midrib