KHORA

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

For a  frame that's been teased and showcased for 5 months i was expecting something more , her first as good as it can be is just a copy cat version of Gara's 1, just a whip crack while the other is a sword like swipe, her 2nd nothing to call home about, the rest is just eh...

I would have loved to see something more unique, like nidus stacks mechanic, which is something never seen before, in that regard, i think nidus is one of the best creations you could come up with in terms of originality....

Like i said for something that's been in the cauldron boiling for 5 months, all i see is a mix of copycat abilities and nothing special,also this is a first impression from the last devstream showcase so i'm open to being surprised if some last minute tweaks are slipped in, nonetheless it's a new frame so it'll keep me busy a little bit while trying her out, if nothing else if the abilities aren't special at all, the animations and graphics are different lmfao.

[Oreades]

On 4/17/2018 at 7:22 AM, LupisV0lk said:

I'll be the lame guy in the room and wait till i have her in my paws before i make a serious judgement.

NO! you will judge her NOW and you will like it! 

 

I fully admit I have some reservations/concerns but without actually being able to futz around with Khora or at least see reviews where other people futz around with Khora in more detail than we have seen.... can't really say one way or the other how she is going to turn out. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

20 hours ago, Dragonofdarkness13 said:

For the months since her reveal she was the Whip using Kitty lady and that's how she was advertised as well... Her Kavat and her Exalted Whip were the 2 HUGE cornerstones of her Character, her Kit, Her Design and most definitely her HYPE.
Then after all that just Weeks before her Release we're told that one of those cornerstones would be replaced with a wannabe Bastille as her Ult.
Khora's Ult Strangle Dome ... It looks like a 3rd power not a 4~
But I feel like we were hyped up and then bait and switched with her powers... like if Excal was Advertised with Exalted Blade and then days before release he was given super jump as his Ult... extreme comparison I know but that's how it feels ~
We don't want a Re-Skinned Bastille for her and Sure in the heck not for her Ult ... We want what we feel in love with her for in the first place back !!!
#WeWantKhorasWhipBack

From memory she was teased as a summoner with some dominatrix feels.  Whip is mentioned and she still has one with her 1.  So this new kit still remains true to that.

Actually technically speaking her old kit was more focused on IPS switching than anything.  Her kavat had no interaction with the player.  it was a set it and forget it cast summon like nekros shadows.

They never showcased or "hyped" exalted whip.  When they talked about her and showed gameplay of her they never elaborated on the exalted whip.  The only reason we had any clue of what it looked like was because someone broke into the games files and toggled it on and recorded some footage of the unfinished kit.  So.  Any hype you may have had about the whip was 100% on you and not the developers.

Strangle dome is better than bastelle.  You actively get more damage for attacking things you caught with your 1.  it also damages enemies.  It meshes with the environment.  where as bastelle was a fixed shape.  Making it easier to catch enemies.    You can pull enemies into your dome as well with her 2.  where as you rely on enemies running into bastelle.  and finally bastelle # of enemies caught was dependent on your power strength.  By all indications of khoras 4 so far it doesn't seem to rely on a stat for # of enemies caught.

Lastly you don't speak for others.  I like the new kit.  and i've seen plenty of other people say they like it as well.

[Nyx219]

So basically like a survival without the life supports, in the Sanctuary & grinding for her parts to drop.

 

Looks like a job for my Frost

[ZodiacShinryu]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Actually technically speaking her old kit was more focused on IPS switching than anything.  Her kavat had no interaction with the player.  it was a set it and forget it cast summon like nekros shadows.

IIRC during I think the first demo of her first 3 powers her 1 and 2 were pretty much the same except with an IPS bonus. Her 3, Venari was summoned for a duration (with Health limitation too) and subsequent uses of 3 on an enemy commanded Venari to initiate a multi-attack with IPS bonuses. I don't know from the last devstream if we can command him anymore because using 3 again changes his behaviors to whatever the 3 sets are (it could be a press vs hold mechanic I guess).

13 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

They never showcased or "hyped" exalted whip.  When they talked about her and showed gameplay of her they never elaborated on the exalted whip. 

You are correct though it doesn't take much for people to get "hyped."  They mention exalted whip and really that is enough. Again, iirc, they always teased it as we are saving this as a surprise for her release. I can't say how far out she was from release (from the captura update devstream when they still teased her exalted whip) but it was after the forum community ignited over the IPS changes that she was shelved for review (reworked). She could've been released sooner if not for that series of events. I assume that her Whip's special perk was too reliant on the IPS changes that they just scrapped it because they couldn't think of another way to make the whip stand out. Or perhaps it was an opportunity to nip it because of other forum criticisms of the "spin to win" meta.

I wouldn't say I was overly "hyped" but I personally like the exalted class frames so Khora was interesting when she had that ability. Now that she doesn't, I don't really care about her. She might be more useful now (simply because they loaded her with CC and some support) but it was at the cost of a potential unique feature (which I think the warframes in general need more of).

I personally never understood the whip meta critics on her being that her 4th wouldn't have access to maiming strike, blood rush, or rivens. Exalted melee weapons front-load their power but over a fairly short period time realistically normal weapons outpace exalted weapons because of those mods. Pretty much every weapon in the whip class would beat her because of this depending on the base range of the exalted whip.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

IIRC during I think the first demo of her first 3 powers her 1 and 2 were pretty much the same except with an IPS bonus. Her 3, Venari was summoned for a duration (with Health limitation too) and subsequent uses of 3 on an enemy commanded Venari to initiate a multi-attack with IPS bonuses. I don't know from the last devstream if we can command him anymore because using 3 again changes his behaviors to whatever the 3 sets are (it could be a press vs hold mechanic I guess).

You are correct though it doesn't take much for people to get "hyped."  They mention exalted whip and really that is enough. Again, iirc, they always teased it as we are saving this as a surprise for her release. I can't say how far out she was from release (from the captura update devstream when they still teased her exalted whip) but it was after the forum community ignited over the IPS changes that she was shelved for review (reworked). She could've been released sooner if not for that series of events. I assume that her Whip's special perk was too reliant on the IPS changes that they just scrapped it because they couldn't think of another way to make the whip stand out. Or perhaps it was an opportunity to nip it because of other forum criticisms of the "spin to win" meta.

I wouldn't say I was overly "hyped" but I personally like the exalted class frames so Khora was interesting when she had that ability. Now that she doesn't, I don't really care about her. She might be more useful now (simply because they loaded her with CC and some support) but it was at the cost of a potential unique feature (which I think the warframes in general need more of).

I personally never understood the whip meta critics on her being that her 4th wouldn't have access to maiming strike, blood rush, or rivens. Exalted melee weapons front-load their power but over a fairly short period time realistically normal weapons outpace exalted weapons because of those mods. Pretty much every weapon in the whip class would beat her because of this depending on the base range of the exalted whip.

Potentially.  I don't recall.  I just remember that it seemed like a pretty boring pet back then.  But now it seems better.  this because it's got decent utility and because nothing in the current kit really over shadows the pet use.  Where as i've no problem imagining people build for exalted whip and pretty much ignoring the pet.

I am glad it was shelved.  IPS switching in my opinion was too gimmicky to actively work as a warframe ability.  I also take issue with chromas abilities being effected by color.  They just don't work out.  Regardless of how DE tweaked/changed IPS effects it would have flopped.  Seeing as how there is no real reason to use different IPS to begin with mid mission.  And element/dual stat switching also really is never needed due to how powerful crits/status procs are.  only real use I feel either would have would be in the void where you fight multiple factions.

I don't hate exalted weapons as a concept.  I just didn't think it made sense for her.  And imo exalted weapons tend to over shadow the kit.  aside from mesa and ivara.  If khora was going to have an exalted ability imo it would fit more thematically to transform her into an animal of some sort or let her ride another summoned pet specific to her 4.  As far as the spin 2 win comment goes I think it's more so that people would use it to spin constantly regardless of mods.  Because it's got good range and damage slide attack wise.  so it would have been a boring repeat of one of the worst things (imo) warframe has ever had.  even if maiming and other meta mods didn't effect it.

[KnightCole]

On 4/17/2018 at 12:18 AM, (XB1)Erudite God said:

Because CC is basically the only thing that matters in high level missions. Also, Rhino is totally a damage frame, what are you on about?

No, no, Rhino is not a damage frame, when 254 pwr str stomp cant even kill lvl 15 Grineer....thats not damage.  Roar? +75%?  Thats not that great. Not when we have mods that add hundreds of % of dmg, along with status, crit and other things.  

Either way, CC, CC, CC, CC, CC, CC, its like there is no other frame class type options.  Id love more frames like Oberon, a mix and match of abilities that all compliment or amplify one another, have some utility, some CC, some damage, debuffs and all do a wide variety of different things.  Oberon is the kind of frame that isnt strictly 'stand in a corner and press these 2 buttons all game".  Makes for a very fun frame.  The only Oberon ability I find myself not using that often is his #1, but the rest, he has radiation procs, DoT dmg, AoE, some CC, healing, group buffing, group healing.....yeah, I wish they would make more frames following the same vein as Oberon.  He makes Warframe fun. 

Not CC frames, where its low, or no dmg, and all it does is stun enemies and make them stand there, or like some of hte crazy damage frames, where its press 2 buttons for a cleared 500m area, like some kind of zone wide nuclear detonation....

Gara?  Her CC is a huge circular wall of 'you shall not pass'.  Frost, he's 'stand inside your safe bubble'.  Vauban, basically the same premise as Gara, put up a huge 'you shall not pass' area.  Rhino ive heard is actually CC, with his stomp, which is actually annoying to play with since I commonly was encountering, what im guessing is a bug that make the enemies in stasis invulnerable...plus throwing the enemies all around the room makes it hard to kill them, since you cant always find their heads.  Trinity, she to is a CC frame, but she throws in heals as well.  

Then the high damage frames like Nidus, Equinox, Ember(or she used to be), Saryn, and them, where a few button presses and the whole zone is clear, so the group just huddles in a corner and sits there for 3 1/2 hours, or 40 minutes, or w/e, while the "DPS" frames clear the zone....../Yaaaaawwwwnnnnnn 

[LupisV0lk]

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

NO! you will judge her NOW and you will like it! 

 

I fully admit I have some reservations/concerns but without actually being able to futz around with Khora or at least see reviews where other people futz around with Khora in more detail than we have seen.... can't really say one way or the other how she is going to turn out. 

Yeah and while i'm at it i'll lament about the fact that we couldn't see her in her damage 2.5 form. /s

I agree, though i am more eager about the update than concerned.

[ZodiacShinryu]

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

But now it seems better.  this because it's got decent utility and because nothing in the current kit really over shadows the pet use.  Where as i've no problem imagining people build for exalted whip and pretty much ignoring the pet.

While I don't think they would've added more utility to Venari if she wasn't shelved there really isn't a reason they couldn't have added it even with an exalted whip. Again, like most speculation, it is hard to say what could have happened. But assuming like most current pet abilities duration and strength are focused (Venari was not a toggle drain at the time) and Exalted weapons are the same except also efficiency (which really around base is good enough especially with energize). Ignoring Venari is a player choice not a kit problem at that point because they are modded similarly.

49 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

IPS switching in my opinion was too gimmicky to actively work as a warframe ability.  I also take issue with chromas abilities being effected by color.  They just don't work out.  Regardless of how DE tweaked/changed IPS effects it would have flopped.  Seeing as how there is no real reason to use different IPS to begin with mid mission.  And element/dual stat switching also really is never needed due to how powerful crits/status procs are.  only real use I feel either would have would be in the void where you fight multiple factions.

While I understand you stated as your opinion, I still find it difficult to know if it "would have flopped". Her first 2 powers still work the exact same as they would have before but they don't have IPS bonuses now. Venari is a wild card atm and we have no idea of what her whip would've done. At worst she would be lopsided like Chroma (which is a whole other beast) but the point of the IPS changes were to give more utility to their procs (to give them more reason to switch mid mission). This is a game of "choices" and players ignoring choices is completely up to them. The community mostly raged against DE trimming the edge cases of Slash (and DE should have never backed down from that) though they also viewed the other procs as trolly due to ragdoll CC on impact and the possible damage counter (that enemies could've utilized on us) on puncture. Khora with those changes would've had options of how to deal with things.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

And imo exalted weapons tend to over shadow the kit.

Because of how modding works, generally all frames have powers that overshadow the rest their kit. It is why people build for 1 main power and maybe another secondary. So this is an argument I don't really understand. It is also player choice and they are free to do whatever they system allows them to do. That being said, as far as the exalted melees go I don't understand the "overshadow" argument in the first place. I have build for Exalted Blade on Excalibur but I still use all his abilities (well not javelins because even built for directly they are a pretty lackluster power). I have a build for Hysteria on Valkyr but I still use all her abilities. I have a build for Primal Fury on Wukong but still use all his abilities. These abilities are augmental abilities that don't hinder you from using the rest of the kit. Sure they pressure you to use the others less if you aren't careful because of the drain but it again comes down to player choice and playstyle.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

As far as the spin 2 win comment goes I think it's more so that people would use it to spin constantly regardless of mods.  Because it's got good range and damage slide attack wise.  so it would have been a boring repeat of one of the worst things (imo) warframe has ever had.  even if maiming and other meta mods didn't effect it.

I mean there are ways DE can combat that some more heavy handed that others. Wukong's PFury is capped at 200% range even with range mods on melee meaning they can regulate the range of the weapon however they want. Excalibur has as mini radial blind on his slide attack that cost energy (that I absolutely hate because the blind is so useless especially with him having his actual 2 to do it better) so they could limit it that way. They could tailor her slide to behave differently completely making it used as a quick room clear moot. While I agree that people could use her exalted as slide tactic they also don't need her to do that and without the meta mods it wouldn't ever get them as far. But this all comes before the fact that DE (as they have also thought on) needs to make melee combos more meaningful.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

While I don't think they would've added more utility to Venari if she wasn't shelved there really isn't a reason they couldn't have added it even with an exalted whip. Again, like most speculation, it is hard to say what could have happened. But assuming like most current pet abilities duration and strength are focused (Venari was not a toggle drain at the time) and Exalted weapons are the same except also efficiency (which really around base is good enough especially with energize). Ignoring Venari is a player choice not a kit problem at that point because they are modded similarly.

While I understand you stated as your opinion, I still find it difficult to know if it "would have flopped". Her first 2 powers still work the exact same as they would have before but they don't have IPS bonuses now. Venari is a wild card atm and we have no idea of what her whip would've done. At worst she would be lopsided like Chroma (which is a whole other beast) but the point of the IPS changes were to give more utility to their procs (to give them more reason to switch mid mission). This is a game of "choices" and players ignoring choices is completely up to them. The community mostly raged against DE trimming the edge cases of Slash (and DE should have never backed down from that) though they also viewed the other procs as trolly due to ragdoll CC on impact and the possible damage counter (that enemies could've utilized on us) on puncture. Khora with those changes would've had options of how to deal with things.

Because of how modding works, generally all frames have powers that overshadow the rest their kit. It is why people build for 1 main power and maybe another secondary. So this is an argument I don't really understand. It is also player choice and they are free to do whatever they system allows them to do. That being said, as far as the exalted melees go I don't understand the "overshadow" argument in the first place. I have build for Exalted Blade on Excalibur but I still use all his abilities (well not javelins because even built for directly they are a pretty lackluster power). I have a build for Hysteria on Valkyr but I still use all her abilities. I have a build for Primal Fury on Wukong but still use all his abilities. These abilities are augmental abilities that don't hinder you from using the rest of the kit. Sure they pressure you to use the others less if you aren't careful because of the drain but it again comes down to player choice and playstyle.

I mean there are ways DE can combat that some more heavy handed that others. Wukong's PFury is capped at 200% range even with range mods on melee meaning they can regulate the range of the weapon however they want. Excalibur has as mini radial blind on his slide attack that cost energy (that I absolutely hate because the blind is so useless especially with him having his actual 2 to do it better) so they could limit it that way. They could tailor her slide to behave differently completely making it used as a quick room clear moot. While I agree that people could use her exalted as slide tactic they also don't need her to do that and without the meta mods it wouldn't ever get them as far. But this all comes before the fact that DE (as they have also thought on) needs to make melee combos more meaningful.

~If exalted whip had some kind of synergy with her pet I "probably" would have been fine with the whip existing. And i'll have to agree to disagree with you here.  If the kit is made in such a fashion where an ability is ignorable I find issue in it.  I'm fine with some abilities being situationally used.  Like mags crush.  Or inaros sand storm.  But if I can easily get by with just summoning the thing and going ham with the whip imo that completely ruins the point of being advertized as a summoner frame.  idk.  maybe I was just too hyped over that idea and DE didn't explore it to it's fullest.

~I think it would have flopped because people likely would have stuck with slash since impact would be too disruptive for allies and puncture doesn't really change anything.  And since there was a lot of focus in her kit about IPS that one thing not working out imo counts it as a flop.  I personally think IPS are fine as is currently.  impact is soft cc and is nice on occasion.  and puncture has it's uses as is.

~There is a difference between making a loadout based on an ability or 2 and the kit being forced down the path of only using one or 2 abilities.  Why (as an example) would I bother to interact with my pet or use my cc when I could just run around flailing my exalted stat stick?  Why bother using any of titanias abilities in general content when I can just fly around in her 4 and murder everything?  etc.  Yes you can use excals abilities with his 4 but there really is no reason to.  You do enough damage and range that slash dash is irrelevant and blind is 100% optional until you start getting surrounded by high damaging enemies.  The blind existing on slide doesn't help it's use either.  There's no real point in using hysteria for extended periods of time anymore so I didn't count valkyr in this.

~and yes while DE could have taken action to alleviate this it doesn't mean they would have.

[NeithanDiniem]

4 hours ago, Kappa64 said:

And yes, people spam other whips, but they won't be spamming a special whip on a brand new warframe, that would have been greatly augmented by powerstrength as well as basic melee mods.

So a weapon that is made more powerful by Warframe AND weapon mods, which has large range and multi-enemy hit, and you seriously don't think people would spam it? Were you not paying attention to when Excalibur got his flashy sword? Or Valkyr when she arrived? Or Ivara when she arrived? Or Mesa when she arrived? Or Titania when she arrived? All 5 of those frames once obtained were spammed to hell and back, to the point that most of them got nerfed to reduce the spam. People made threads complaining about how their missions were full of people spamming these skills everywhere and disrupting their play experience. You could hardly go a single page without seeing a different one. So are you seriously saying that this frame would somehow not be following the very deep pattern that has happened with nearly every previous exalted weapon frame?

[Kappa64]

13 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

So a weapon that is made more powerful by Warframe AND weapon mods, which has large range and multi-enemy hit, and you seriously don't think people would spam it? Were you not paying attention to when Excalibur got his flashy sword? Or Valkyr when she arrived? Or Ivara when she arrived? Or Mesa when she arrived? Or Titania when she arrived? All 5 of those frames once obtained were spammed to hell and back, to the point that most of them got nerfed to reduce the spam. People made threads complaining about how their missions were full of people spamming these skills everywhere and disrupting their play experience. You could hardly go a single page without seeing a different one. So are you seriously saying that this frame would somehow not be following the very deep pattern that has happened with nearly every previous exalted weapon frame?

People won't spam it because she doesn't have it.

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

~There is a difference between making a loadout based on an ability or 2 and the kit being forced down the path of only using one or 2 abilities.  Why (as an example) would I bother to interact with my pet or use my cc when I could just run around flailing my exalted stat stick?  Why bother using any of titanias abilities in general content when I can just fly around in her 4 and murder everything?  etc.  Yes you can use excals abilities with his 4 but there really is no reason to.  You do enough damage and range that slash dash is irrelevant and blind is 100% optional until you start getting surrounded by high damaging enemies.  The blind existing on slide doesn't help it's use either.  There's no real point in using hysteria for extended periods of time anymore so I didn't count valkyr in this.

While our discussion is pretty much over on Khora directly because as you said "i'll agree to disagree" and we would just end up going back and forth on our opinions. Though this interested me even as we start moving off topic.

How is it different? In a game of situations there tends to be one or two skills worth using in general per frame (except maybe Nidus and Octavia which are extremely powerful in their own right, especially Octavia). That is what the meta demands after all to which the other skills are "overshadowed" by those selected. And then if the skill doesn't provide some form of utility (be it protections, boosts, mass debuffs/cc, and/or healing) it ceases to be useful over just our weapons (aka my disdain for Radial Javelin). Exalted Abilities are at their base buffs; they are an augmented state. Buffs on nearly every frame get priority because they provide the quickest feedback and less dependent on context. There isn't any content that pressures you to use all your abilities.

There is a long list of frames and abilities where you need to ask yourself "why bother doing this when I can just do this". A lot of the time its simply "because I feel like it". Some times there are situational uses. Why use Slash Dash during EB? Because I want invincibility frames? Because I want to position myself faster? Because I want to refresh my combo timer? Why use Blind during EB? The same reasons I'd use blind before EB even existed. Do I need to use these abilities during EB? Probably not but I also probably didn't need to use EB either meaning that I still didn't need to use the rest of his abilities anyway.

A lot of this sounds more like problems with the base abilities of most frames rather than Exalted abilities tend to be powerful (because they specifically designed to be as focused buffs). If you mean that perhaps exalted abilities should have more benefits with the rest of your skills then I probably would agree. Slash Dash having waves on each dash is neat though diminished by the fact that basic swings all do waves as well (though that is a larger debate on whether Excalibur should even have access to the waves as he does). Personally Id like it better if the waves were combo related with multipliers and size distinctions, maybe even on charge attacks (that I don't believe is even hooked up on EB atm).

2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

~and yes while DE could have taken action to alleviate this it doesn't mean they would have.

At first, probably not. Though its been a long time and I can't remember exactly, the energy cost on slide attack of EB didn't exist (I honestly don't remember if EB was released with that blind). The increased energy drain and stored damage aura additions to Hysteria or the range cap on Primal Fury. DE has in general done something each time, the question was more when than if.

[Dragonofdarkness13]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Lastly you don't speak for others.  I like the new kit.  and i've seen plenty of other people say they like it as well.

I Never said I speak for 'Everyone'... I speak for myself but I'm also trying to get the people that want her Exalted Whip to rally their voice and not just whimper defeated like they can't do anything.

[(PSN)Croewe]

11 hours ago, renogaza said:

yep, they merged "my thoughts on devstream 109" as well as many others into your thread, so now its really confusing to track who's talking to who.. they should just archive all the related threads into a private thread for their reference instead of making it difficult for everybody to communicate in a mega-thread/super-thread

Yeah this thread makes no goddamn sense. I'm not sure why they would use my thread as the header undead of a thread that actually goes through all her abilities.

[fluffysnowcap]

I agree with the OP, the exalted whip looked fun, and the climbing frame, well what to say. Well other than it looks like a edgy preschooler made it.

[Lior55]

To those who are doing this, why are you assuming what the exalted whip would've been like? Some people are hating on the idea because they hate whip spammers in general. What does that have to do with the exalted weapon? If you told me that a new warframe was getting an exalted bow (Ivara), I'd think that it would shoot a beam like Opticor. Simply musing about the possibilities of what it could be, but not locking anything in based off how other bows work. No exalted weapon is like their melee counterpart; they are all unique and create a special experience for many players in our community. Those of us who wanted that exalted whip, wanted to see how DE was going to create a whole new experience with an exalted whip. (I, for one, have NO idea how they were going to make it innovative and different from other exalted weapons, but I believed in their creativity)

Strangle dome is Bastille with some damage. That's not new and I think that's what hurts the most about the change. the 1 is simple but fine (like most 1s). the 2 is a lesser vortex. the 3 is an AI so it has little to nothing to do with the feeling of playing Khora herself. Without her exalted whip, what makes her fun to control? Without it, she's too similar to Vauban. We waited months for something new and we don't feel like we got much in the end. Nothing about her kit makes [her] special. The kavat is cool, but you're not playing with that. You're playing with Khora.

[KittyDarkling]

Yeah I was really disappointed when they showed off her four, I'm hoping it'll play better than it looked. An exalted whip sounds like it would of been much more creative.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

14 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

While our discussion is pretty much over on Khora directly because as you said "i'll agree to disagree" and we would just end up going back and forth on our opinions. Though this interested me even as we start moving off topic.

How is it different? In a game of situations there tends to be one or two skills worth using in general per frame (except maybe Nidus and Octavia which are extremely powerful in their own right, especially Octavia). That is what the meta demands after all to which the other skills are "overshadowed" by those selected. And then if the skill doesn't provide some form of utility (be it protections, boosts, mass debuffs/cc, and/or healing) it ceases to be useful over just our weapons (aka my disdain for Radial Javelin). Exalted Abilities are at their base buffs; they are an augmented state. Buffs on nearly every frame get priority because they provide the quickest feedback and less dependent on context. There isn't any content that pressures you to use all your abilities.

There is a long list of frames and abilities where you need to ask yourself "why bother doing this when I can just do this". A lot of the time its simply "because I feel like it". Some times there are situational uses. Why use Slash Dash during EB? Because I want invincibility frames? Because I want to position myself faster? Because I want to refresh my combo timer? Why use Blind during EB? The same reasons I'd use blind before EB even existed. Do I need to use these abilities during EB? Probably not but I also probably didn't need to use EB either meaning that I still didn't need to use the rest of his abilities anyway.

A lot of this sounds more like problems with the base abilities of most frames rather than Exalted abilities tend to be powerful (because they specifically designed to be as focused buffs). If you mean that perhaps exalted abilities should have more benefits with the rest of your skills then I probably would agree. Slash Dash having waves on each dash is neat though diminished by the fact that basic swings all do waves as well (though that is a larger debate on whether Excalibur should even have access to the waves as he does). Personally Id like it better if the waves were combo related with multipliers and size distinctions, maybe even on charge attacks (that I don't believe is even hooked up on EB atm).

At first, probably not. Though its been a long time and I can't remember exactly, the energy cost on slide attack of EB didn't exist (I honestly don't remember if EB was released with that blind). The increased energy drain and stored damage aura additions to Hysteria or the range cap on Primal Fury. DE has in general done something each time, the question was more when than if.

Not to make this short reply seem like I didn't read (because I did) i'm just simplifying my argument.  My issue really just is based on feeling.  I don't have an issue with say Mesa and her exalted pistols being main stay because her 2 and 3 compliment it and help use the 4 better.  I don't get this feeling or this hint of synergy when it comes from most other exalted abilities.  And yes.  I would be 100% fine with more exalted abilities existing if they had actual interactions with the other abilities.  and yes EB did have the blind and it costed no energy.  they added energy drain to it. Aura/damage stored was always a thing with valks 4.  But they added a visible ring and a % at the top for visual sake.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

14 hours ago, Dragonofdarkness13 said:

I Never said I speak for 'Everyone'... I speak for myself but I'm also trying to get the people that want her Exalted Whip to rally their voice and not just whimper defeated like they can't do anything.

I'm pretty sure DE is aware.  and that you're not going to get it back.  She's dropping this week on PC.  iirc she didn't have this tight of a release window back with her old kit.  (could be chalked up to them still working out damage 2.5 but still.)

[Nurmetya]

Since I don't bother with the dev streams anymore, too much screwing around and avoiding the actual questions asked of them, but it seems Khora is going to be rather bland for a frame.

Her Whipclaw is just a copy/paste of Gara's 1 only it seems to only go forward whilst Gara's can do forward or a left to right swipe. 

Her Ensare is just Nidus's Larva only instead of reaching out to grapple stuff on cast it needs an enemy to be targeted and for other enemies to walk near it to be useful. 

And it seems these 2 have the only synergy on her even if its just nothing more then a copy of Frosts ability to pop his own Snow globes, unless there is something there that hasn't been covered somewhere.

Venari is the pet AI control we all wish other pets had..... cause I'd really like to be able to tell a regular Kavat/Kubrow/Nidog to attack or defend instead of it just going full Leeroy and dying to its own stupidity.

And Strangledome, yes its an awesome ability name but its just a Bastille that can hurt stuff. 

So all in all Khora went from being unique to Mastery Fodder..... to me that isn't a good sign for the future of Warframe. Every frame has had some use in some form even that nuisance Limbo, (Limbo being a nuisance is entirely dependent on the player driving it), has his place but I'm finding it hard to see a place for Khora that can't be filled by another frame that isn't more efficient but I will hold final judgement until I get a hold of her to see for myself.

[Timbazorg]

It's pretty hard to come up with 4 brand new abilities that aren't like others because of the amount of frames in game.  I think she is fine and even tho I prefer other frames, she is still a good addition to Warframe. 

[renogaza]

there was someone in this thread (i forget who and i apologize) who said that it would be a great idea for khora to have both the strangledome and the exalted whip, because her 1st and 2nd ability is still basically the exalted whip in a skill and the 3rd is a pet, the 4th is now a defensive strangledome, but what if they made it so that tapping the fourth ability switches to a defensive playstyle which is the strangledome while hold pressing the 4th ability cancels any active strangledome's in the area and activates the exalted whip for a more aggressive playstyle, while using the whip however khora wont be able to use the parkour system or her other weapons but can still command her kavat, tapping the 4th ability once again will cancel the exalted whip and return to normal gameplay.

khora would be a much more interesting combat style forcing the player to switch between aggressive and defensive playstyles on the fly and requires a lot more player skill to master, in my opinion it would be quite an interesting change to her gameplay instead of just making another gara

also to make the exalted whip unique as a whip style weapon it should be a weapon that has insanely high damage and red crits, but has an incredibly slow attack speed and focuses on a narrow attack combat style instead of a wide room clearer combat style, encouraging the player to use the whip to kill incredibly tough and dangerous targets like bombards, napalms and can bypass nullifier shields, and then using the strangledome to deny large areas of weaker enemies, doing far less damage than the exalted whip but having very good cc and crowding ability, encouraging the use of the exalted whip after grouping up the enemies with the strangledome.

Edited April 19, 2018 by renogaza
correcting typos again

[Dragonofdarkness13]

I really wish I'd have gotten some sort of notice my Thread was merged with another >,<

[Arkanno]

On 17/04/2018 at 6:10 PM, Shry0b said:

If anyone who reads this post feels like Dragonofdarkness13 and me, please give this topic a bit of light and divulgation: we keep getting Warframes whose abilities possess both offensive and defensive / CC capabilities. Khora has been portrayed, during Devstream, as a powerhouse focused on giving pressure to the enemies by relentlessy attack them. 

She was not meant to CC and she by no means should possess abilities that other Warframes already have.

As said before, her 4th is basically a reskinned Bastille, but how many Waframes got in their arsenals mass CC abilities?

Regardless of how you build them, one their 3rd or 4th are used to keep entire rooms at bay. 

We want what they first told us: Exalted Whip as her ultimate ability. Either that or they stop to tell us something and entirely change it few days before the release.

 

#WeWantKhorasWhipBack

I replied to most topics regarding her exalted whip.

 

So,one more time,Please DE give back her exalted whip :/