KHORA

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

4 minutes ago, Lanying said:

Thing is her 1-3 were great before. They had depth to them with the damage type change. 

Now she lost all that to get:

- New tech on her 3 which should be standard with all pets in game already

- A new 4 which is the same as Harrows 1 except in a sphere with the same VFX. So she went from whips and cat frame to copy Nidus/Harrow with a Cat. They could have kept her original game play design but given her IPS damage types additional effects; then just spruce up her exhalted whip. That's all they had to do. It would've been easy. 

 

Now she looses her theme (dominatrix frame was a joke by the community but really the dom/sado frame is clearly harrows gig) of whips and becomes way less interesting. She goes from aggressive to very defensive with her 2 and 4 overlapping hard.

I wonder why they couldn't have kept the same IPS change ideas and instead of making them universal, just make them apply to her kit. Impact mode ramps up her attacks into ragdoll/knockdown amd be her crowd control mode, puncture mode can keep stacking damage reduction and be her team support mode, slash is slash and be her damage mode.

Add a few more bonuses to Impact/Puncture mode to make them more appealing.

[Arkanno]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

why couldnt she have shipped with damage 2.5 changes exclusively? Wouldn't that have been the easiest solution? They couldve just explained it as her WF powers affected the way IPS works for her abilities.

I actually suggested this on my earlier topic,it would seem super interesting and fix all her issues on the topic.

 

51 minutes ago, Lanying said:

Same, hype is definitely killed. Sorry DE. She went from the one thing I was obsessively waiting for to probably not playing WF till Venus or another interesting frame.

This was me,untill this devstream :(

[Arkanno]

Its not about the "oh I want a maiming strike whip or an OP whip.

As an exalted weapon it will have so many uses,high damage,good range (they could limit the range scaling from mods so its not overkill),and she could DPS very well with her whip and kavat at the same time (can you imagine how cool this could be?),even now that her kavat has team support and her cc on 2 is awesome she had so much potential on that whip.

The DPS/Support with her own Kavat...

..magnificent,Utz

[Kyronz]

Who knows what her kit will end up being, but from the devstream it is incredibly bland atm.   Maybe frame after her will be interesting, because khora seems like they put very little effort into her design.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Really upset about the exalted whip situation. My Excalibur was gonna have a wife.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Why do people hate exalted weapons?? Like, just don’t touch the frame. It’s that simple. 

[Arkanno]

1 hour ago, Xylyssa said:

Just plug her into the current damage system. If people use Slash only then so be it, that just means that when you guys eventually make the other types worthwhile she'll be in a better place. Her new kit is boring and laughably dull. You took away everything that made her unique and now she is just going to be another Gara, except Khora basically has reskinned abilities of existing Warframes.

 

I implore you guys change her back. The ability to change damage type on both her and her Kavat was really cool and unique, as well as her Exalted Whip. Dear god why did you get rid of the whip? Strangle dome looks stupid and and unless enemies caught in it strangle themselves to death it is not worth it. It basically is a reskin of Nezha's ultimate.

Please DE, Scott, Steve, change her back. I can;t be the only one who thinks this new kit for her is dumb. What exactly about this new kit follows the dominatrix theme the original had?

You're not the only one,Tenno,believe me.

I wanted her original showed kit so bad,and with the Venari changed now,can you imagine how good she could be?

Yes,please DE change her back to her original,even keep the original proc stacks ideas for her abilities only,she can be so much more than this.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Yeah, I was also interested in the exalted whip concept.

If Khora is gonna be a caster-style gameplay then I am definitely less interested but Mastery is Mastery so doesn't matter which fodder it comes from.

[Ham_Grenabe]

In the dev preview, nothing that I could actually see.

Conceptually, it sounds useful. Perhaps it will even work by Tuesday. 

[GinKenshin]

Whips are cancer in general, it’s not MS at fault

[Raspberry]

5 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Whips are cancer in general, it’s not MS at fault

I'm not sure very much can be done to prevent a whip, or a lot of good weapons in general, from nuking a room of low level enemies. Whips just happen to be efficient and low-effort, but I can easily do the same task with an assault rifle or polearm, and people just magically complain less.

But, if you ask me to bring a whip to kill armored enemies at sortie level, I would actually laugh and say no, the damage is too low. Even with Maiming + BS, the damage doesn't scale enough.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Il y a 8 heures, Knight_Ex a dit :

and whips seem to be a meta in warframe right now,

Whips? Meta? Pff. 

It's the Slide attack spam, not the Whips, that is "meta". Spin-2-win is just as cancerous with a Polearm, if not more. I said it countless times on many threads, but this is not the type of "gameplay" (if it can even be called playing at all) that DE intended. 

"You don't know what they intended, you're not a dev, you're just a whiny kid" is the usual type of response I get, but meh, who cares. I know that DE wouldn't add Stances, combos and weapons that doesn't perfom this type of cheese well if that cancer spam was their meaning of "melee".

 

Imo, DE should rework many weapon types and Whips are on top of the list, alongside Dual Daggers and Fist weapons. That and get rid of the Spin-2-win spam somehow.

[Music4Therapy]

I just hope the AI of Khora's Kavat isn't dumb as a rock and that the utility (namely the Disarm and the Heal) are an aoe and not some single target ability the Kavat uses independently.

Aside from that, looks great. Always wanted a frame with hard CC, team support, a way to group up enemies, and a disarm. Only Loki and Nyx have disarm currently as frame abilities. Surprised they're making a frame with all these things and honestly I'm pretty stoked.

[Raspberry]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

I wonder why they couldn't have kept the same IPS change ideas and instead of making them universal, just make them apply to her kit. Impact mode ramps up her attacks into ragdoll/knockdown amd be her crowd control mode, puncture mode can keep stacking damage reduction and be her team support mode, slash is slash and be her damage mode.

Add a few more bonuses to Impact/Puncture mode to make them more appealing.

I think it's because the procs and damage types were all tied into direct attacks with her whip, which of course caused problems. If you're gonna directly attack an enemy with a weapon, even an ability weapon, you might as well try to go the lethal route every single time if it's an option. The only lethal route with physical attacks? Slash. Impact is meh CC, but enemies can still get staggered by most ordinary melee hits, anyway. So, 0% usage. Puncture makes targets do less damage, but again, Khora wouldn't have mega-procced it through massive AoEs that go through walls. So, 0% usage.

And if for some reason someone ever wanted to spam CC with an ability "weapon", Harrow's 1 was already gonna do the job far better than Khora's kit would ever hope to accomplish.

[Threa]

I agree and I also want to add that I would like them to consider adding Exalted Whip back, I really like these kinds of weapons/abilities. I also have some suggestions which I also provided in a similar thread on Reddit.

These suggestions would either add to or replace her 4th ability:

- Cause it to enrage Venari (increase damage, attacks become AoE, or summons a second version of her)

- Enemies caught in the snare take ticking status damage based on melee mods and/or makes Venari focus them

Although I'm cautious about adding too much focus on Venari, I also think it's worth taking this risk because it will allow us to explore the potential of what a true "pet" Warframe could be like. It would distinguish her even more from all the other Warframes.

Here is a link to the Reddit post discussing her 4th in case anyone would like to contribute: 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Threa

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, Arkanno said:

You're not the only one,Tenno,believe me.

I wanted her original showed kit so bad,and with the Venari changed now,can you imagine how good she could be?

Yes,please DE change her back to her original,even keep the original proc stacks ideas for her abilities only,she can be so much more than this.

Her original kit was based on IPS being changed. Since the community saw fit to scuttle that, it had to be totally changed. Why would you assume she would be better with a kit built on something that doesn't exist, than the current one which is going to be released? Did you play the original one?

[Neptlude]

Since they scrapped the salted whip Idea, can we get the whip and stance as normal equipment instead?

Pretty sure we all saw a finished model for the whip a few months back right?

And having new whip stance would be nice too... =w=

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

55 minutes ago, Raspberry said:

I think it's because the procs and damage types were all tied into direct attacks with her whip, which of course caused problems. If you're gonna directly attack an enemy with a weapon, even an ability weapon, you might as well try to go the lethal route every single time if it's an option. The only lethal route with physical attacks? Slash. Impact is meh CC, but enemies can still get staggered by most ordinary melee hits, anyway. So, 0% usage. Puncture makes targets do less damage, but again, Khora wouldn't have mega-procced it through massive AoEs that go through walls. So, 0% usage.

And if for some reason someone ever wanted to spam CC with an ability "weapon", Harrow's 1 was already gonna do the job far better than Khora's kit would ever hope to accomplish.

I don't disagree, but if they were going to revisit her kit (which they clearly did and stripped it down to virtually nothing interesting beyond being able to summon an extra pet that does some stuff), they could have stuck with their original IPS switching and expanded on it more. Plenty of situations prove just pure damage isn't enough in this game, and they could have kept that theme with the ideas.

Maybe Impact was CC and offered more than just the ragdoll procs. Maybe in that mode she had ways of boosting team stats and slowed enemies etc, then Puncture had its own effects related to buffing/debuffing, then Slash would be the offensive mode. Yeah, it'd be the go to for damage, but would be detrimental trying to stay in it due to its lack of crowd control/survivability.

Those early days when she was first being discussed, that's the clear image I had of her. Pet+Exalted Whip and the necessity to bounce between modes to fit the situation. It came with a god awful global IPS change proposal, but that didn't invalidate the cool concept behind the frame.

I was excited at the prospect of finally seeing more frames that dabbled in complexity. Octavia/Harrow/Gara showed signs they were starting to go down that path, but Octavia ended up being a cheese frame at min/max design and Gara I just lost interest when they backpedalled so they wouldn't shake up the precious meta.

Maybe Khora was just a lost cause to begin with, being a design that they tried to force a kit onto instead of the other way around and we'll see something interesting again, but yeah, this kit wasn't worth the wait.

I ended up rambling and going off topic there lol. That wasn't all a direct reply. Just the first two paragraphs were.

[kyori]

Ya hopefully it will ship with khora together with her polearm weapon.

[Arniox]

Nah. Just let DE release it. Let them go about their own ideas and release it next week. 

Common guys. NEXT WEEK. I'm hyped and I don't want it delayed more so just let it go. 

[Arniox]

1 hour ago, Music4Therapy said:

I just hope the AI of Khora's Kavat isn't dumb as a rock and that the utility (namely the Disarm and the Heal) are an aoe and not some single target ability the Kavat uses independently.

Aside from that, looks great. Always wanted a frame with hard CC, team support, a way to group up enemies, and a disarm. Only Loki and Nyx have disarm currently as frame abilities. Surprised they're making a frame with all these things and honestly I'm pretty stoked.

I'm glad someone here likes her in the new state. 

I personally feel like her cat changes are WAYYYY better. Before, the change mode changed between slash, impact and puncture and I feel as if no one ever would use the impact or puncture mode and just stick to slash.

Now that they've moved the mode changer to the cat, it's so much more interesting. It means we have more control over our cat and what she does. You can be a healer, or offensive or defensive. It's really cool. 

And her ult sounds interesting as a first globe kinda... I'd have liked the exaulted whip, but this ability also looks really useful.

[(PSN)Croewe]

4 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Actually, after rewatching the devstream, her 3's cat mode switch is now upper body (Reb was moving during Khora's shrugs) when it used to be full body, back when it was on 1. Would be nice if her 1 was too.

I didn't notice this. I'll have to go back and check it out!

[Arkanno]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Her original kit was based on IPS being changed. Since the community saw fit to scuttle that, it had to be totally changed. Why would you assume she would be better with a kit built on something that doesn't exist, than the current one which is going to be released? Did you play the original one?

Remeber the devstream when they showcased her 1 abilitty? with the concept of stacking procs for stronger effects?I'm refering to that and I think that her orinal kit could fit in this current system very well,damage should scale from melee mods and additional effects from stacking procs (with her abilities only) - the damage buffs exclusively for her.

[LupisV0lk]

Well once again community feedback and knee jerk reactions gimp another frame. Maybe instead of screeching like harpies we let the developers do their job, they know what they're doing.....we don't.

Edited April 14, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[Arkanno]

7 hours ago, Raspberry said:

I know the devs said that it wasn't working well in cramped spaces, but even when imagining how it works when it's functional, it seems so redundant when she already has her 2 doing basically the same thing. They're far more similar than Oberon's 1 vs. 4 abilities, so that is a problem. Also, she's a cat-and-whip frame, not a spider frame. Strangledome really does not look fitting for her kit: not visually, not functionally. I'm probably just another blip in a large crowd by this time, but I would like to see her exalted whip come back. Some are concerned about Maiming Strike, but I believe most acolyte mods don't work on exalted weapons to begin with, so I don't see an exalted whip as game-breaking.

I would like to see a Jorōgumo-esque spider frame, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorōgumo

What her 4th did? Disappointed us.

 

4 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

Whips are cancer in general, it’s not MS at fault

Not everyone does that,you know.

I'm always enjoying my melee runs using combos from stances,even with exalted weapons (not just mashing E on EB etc),and people should use more combos often and appreciate the work done by the animation team .