Why is the Warframe Community not as Toxic as other FtP games like Fortnite?

[skyfiredraco]

if someone in a pvp game is better than you, you get demolished. This generally doesn't feel good, even if it motivates you.

If you are better than someone in a pvp game you get a vicious thrill of the kill. This makes you feel better but makes them feel worse. Get used to that dopamine hit and you only feel good when you get that aggressive high.

If someone in a pve game is better than you the run goes faster. You can look up their build or just enjoy the ride while you try to help.

If you are better than someone in a pve game the run still goes faster (even meat shields are useful :P) and instead of an aggressive rush you can get a high out of carrying a newbie (or less skilled player) and maybe, MAYBE helping them improve.

I'm not saying pvp games are bad, really, but they cater to a very different crowd and even the satisfaction "hit" you get from them sparks different parts of your brain.

Getting your first win in fortnite is a helluva rush... but you just made 99 other people's day every so slightly worse.

Clearing your first 1 hour survival mission (or killing your first eidolon, completing your first full prime warframe build, etc.) is also a rush... but everyone that was going along with you benefited as well.

Just my $0.02

[Firetempest]

We are very very toxic. In very very specific ways. Hateing specific frames, specific weapons, specific tactics, specific mechanics, specific posts. Usually people specialize in only a few of these. Then you have normal d-bags who try and purposely fail missions or lie about key/relic shares and trade scumming, and for the size of the game, it seems on par with the minority of other awful individuals in other games. Rare but memorable. But the vast majority of my runs are dead silent. Only time one speaks up if at all is *waypoint* "stalker on me".  

[(XBOX)The Dracoknight]

On 2018-04-28 at 5:42 PM, AXCrusnik said:

 

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\[T]/

Praise the void

[AcceI]

Its here.  Its just has no platform to manifest on as much as other familiar triple A titles out there.

Also mics/communication aren't mandatory in most WF sessions.

[DishSoap]

Because toxic is a buzzword for describing "things I personally don't like".

Edited August 10, 2018 by DishSoap

[Cuchullin]

I think a large part of the toxicity levels in warframe beyond the PvP and PvE arguments is largely due to the speed with which it's played. If you were to focus solely in on the public match ups then usually the missions can usually be measured in minutes. You may occasionally get a few people who complain about noobs or how some players suck because they trigger an alarm or a mission fails but generally win or lose it's over pretty quickly and you can move on to a new group fairly quickly and completely forget about them so there's no real need to hold a grudge cause the speed with which it can be done can make it redundant.

The only exceptions here (as far as I can see) are the endurance type players which generally people who know what they are doing so there's no issue and people who have an issue with other people hosting missions because of slow connections and lag because of it, which I've only experienced once recently in all my time playing warframe. 

That however is a side point, my main point is that the general speed at which people complete missions doesn't really allow for much in toxic attitudes and no-one is required to stick around to listen to someone complain because there's always someone else easier to work with to go on missions. Those are my thoughts on it anyway.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Cuchullin

[Antiversvm]

It's fine because there is no PvP which causes the most hate but on the other side you could just play Limbo and embrace toxic behaviour.

[Acersecomic]

It's not competitive.

[(PSN)RhinoCharging00]

Could it simply be that Fortnite, being bright, colourful, loud, and with large cartoon character avatars, appeals to younger children and early teens, who tend to be the ones screaming profanities and slurs at people over the mic, whilst the darker, more sombre, more complex world of Warframe, and the lack of a simplistic tutorial, attracts a more mature and intellectual type of player?

These are, of course, generalisations...to a degree.

After all, plenty of well adjusted, grown up people play Fortnite, (just as many teens don't act like vile trolls)...but then they aren't the ones being toxic.

They never are.

The problem comes from the type of game appealing to more of the toxic type of player.

This is why CoD can be more toxic than something like Battlefield. 

[(NSW)-Kenneth-]

Actually there are plenty of toxic players within Warframe. Even some of the more "famous" streamers are actually toxic themselves. If you've not come across them yet, you've been lucky. 

[(PSN)RhinoCharging00]

1 hour ago, --Kenneth-- said:

Actually there are plenty of toxic players within Warframe. Even some of the more "famous" streamers are actually toxic themselves. If you've not come across them yet, you've been lucky. 

Nobody says there are no toxic Warframe players.

They are human beings, so it is inevitable.

But broadly speaking, as a general rule, when viewed next to other games, it seems less toxic.

[vvhorus]

The secret is...

Spoiler

we're all just a bunch of magnificent bastards...

 

[JuanS]

Oh but we are, you have just been lucky 

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

Warframe is PvE, with a PvP mode that nobody really uses, So while some people are still mean and rude, it is about helping each other.

Fortnite is a PvP Game, that while requiring skill does also have a lot of Luck in it, and people in PvP settings are usually more competitive, and don't want to think they lost because they weren't good enough but that their team sucked or the enemy were cheating. 

[Legion-Shields]

I don't know but I really wish it were as toxic. 

[---Merchant---]

Double post bug

Edited August 11, 2018 by MidoriFuse
bdfbddf

[---Merchant---]

If someone does not think warframe is toxic,try to get max rank in conclave...I did and i never met more toxic community.

Outside pvp ofcourse,everything is nice and fancy 99% of time

[Marvelous_A]

Try conclave and the toxicity level will escalate quickly

Trade chat is fine if you know when to pull out, just like irl issues.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[BloodKitten]

maybe cause fortnite ditched the single player/co-op part and focus all its attention on the free to play battle royal and skins? despite the fact the single player/co-op section actually cost money?

[Lost_Cartographer]

Oh, we're toxic.  The toxicity in Warframe comes from elitism.  This is pretty much the case in any game though, which is why PvP games have it so much worse.  If someone can link your criticism to "failure/incompetence" and look at their own (if successful) experiences and go "I'm better," they'll defend to the death anything to say they're a skilled and superior player.  Like... someone criticized lockdowns and people defended their presence, telling him to "git gud" and "they're not a problem for me."  Like... who fails hacking regularly?  The question was what is the point to lockdowns?  No one would (or likely could) answer that question, they opted to instead provide "advice" and assert their superiority as players.

And this is why it can still be hard to have a good debate on these forums.  They inevitably break down to "I have no problem with this system" and "I'm better than you."  THAT is why people might see the community as toxic.  If we're not fawning over something silly or cool, we're more often than not at each other's throats over petty elitism and the rampant misconceptions spawned from that elitism.  It's stupid.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Littleman88

[Cuchullin]

While it is true there is some toxicity in warframe personally what little I have come across is manageable and and frankly hardly worth dwelling on. In PvP centric games games you are generally faced with the more confrontational and aggressive toxicity then is generally found elsewhere. As for elitism, I imagine that's a pretty common theme across the board for any game with players who suck however much time in their game of choice and if new or even experienced players are willing to wade through a little ego or bragging they could pick up something useful otherwise it can be ignored safely enough with little enough reprisals.

[Leyvonne]

Personally I think it is the combination of being focused on PvE and being solo friendly.

I play a lot of MMOs and usually most problems come from PvP, dungeons and raids aka things where your success and progress is often tied to what the rest of the group can do. People just can't tolerate "noobs" or less skilled players when they think their precious gametime is being wasted. Also games where the focus is on group content it is quite common that people start to think everyone outside their group / guild / whatever is somehow inferior and bad at the game. Or that players who don't do X or Y in the game aren't allowed to have opinions. WoW forums are a great example of this; if you post something about gameplay people will actually go check your character's raid progress and rip you to shreds if you don't have any.

Warframe does have some bad apples, but so far I haven't had to deal with them much. I think my favorite was when I was called "a slow witted person (I'm sure you all know the actual word that was used) who should just uninstal and go play Hello Kitty". This was when I had been playing for about a week and I was asked if I had potatoed my frame and I had no idea what that meant. If the guy had said Orokin Reactor I would have known what he was talking about 😄

[DarkwarriorJ]

The biggest factor in it, I feel, is that there's very little in warframe where people can actively negatively impact each other. Kill stealing doesn't matter, loot stealing doesn't exist, how other people do only fractionally matters in actually succeeding in a mission, etc. Basically, cooperation is not mandatory and griefing mechanics (mostly) don't exist (Limbo comes closest, and he's tame).

The second factor in it is that everyone is made to feel like winners, for the most part. PvP games are said to be toxic because not everyone's going to be a winner, and with particularly horrible examples like Overwatch and League, cooperation is also mandatory, and it's with total strangers to boot, for maximum toxicity. On the other hand, Warframe has everyone be a winner, cooperation not mandatory, and it's still with total strangers for the time being. 

[Cuchullin]

4 hours ago, DarkwarriorJ said:

and it's still with total strangers for the time being. 

Unless you start and largely continue with your mates but the nature of warframe generally draws you out into the wider community as a whole which isn't really a bad thing again only possibly spoiled by a few bad apples which can be easily ignored.

[Campaigner]

Probably a mix of Warframe being a cooperative squad game and the fact that it has more of an explore and immerse feel than a simple shoot heads and get led by the nose game. The simpler minds more easily go off the rails... and don't touch warframe because there's "too much."

Edited August 12, 2018 by Campaigner