Buff Exodia Contagion

[Buttaface]

On ‎05‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 11:34 PM, peterc3 said:

Exodia Contagion is end game?
One of two arcanes you can just buy, the only difficulty being the limited time within which to buy them, not even to build them?
Also sold during the event is the materials to build them.
There's not even any RNG to getting the rep to buy the mats, just running the mission repeatedly.

This is a tissue-thin, poorly thought out, and ill-reasoned springboard into a much larger conversation about Arcanes.

This. Don't lump the easy to get event arcanes with the other exodias. They are apples and oranges in terms of farming due to neurodes/plastids v the POE mats for the other exodia. Don't lump exodias with eidolon arcanes either as "end game," again apples and oranges.

That said, hunt, valor, brave, triumph, might, are all fine, extremely powerful for -melee- use, as opposed to turning a melee weapon into a gimpy ranged weapon or trying to create exploits from broken mechanics. Force is the runt of the lot, but it's basically free extra damage just for swinging the weapon, so that's understandable. Personally, have never found -any- meaningful use for epidemic or contagion other than very niche with contagion, and contagion is not supposed to allow one shot kills at range on high level armored mobs, more for clearing trash one doesn't want to close to melee range or shoot. There are lots of weak arcanes, no reason why some exodia shouldn't be weaker than others.

[Sloan441]

9 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

There is no endgame, and there most likely never will be. On the two occasions they could have added some endgame, they forsook it.

Think about this for a moment...

DE has implemented several systems that a few people clamored for, presumably for something to do once they "arrived". Once implemented they languished, since more than a few people didn't see any point in these systems or found them something less than fun to indulge in. 

Demographics paint a grim picture when it becomes apparent you have a time resource intensive system that few of the playerbase care about and fewer still indulge in. It should come as no surprise that it eventually gets the axe. 

Bottom line is the vast majority of the playerbase simply doesn't want an WoW-style raiding system or a LoL-style meta game. They don't want it and simply won't play it. DE has displayed tremendous flexibility and a great deal of imagination looking for things for veteran players to do. However, if the players don't play it, then what? You deep-six it and look for something else. 

Be advised in a game viewed as very casual, there might not be anything else. If it's too time intensive, a goodly bit of your playerbase won't do more than dabble. We saw this with Anarchy Online and City of Heroes, though for different reasons. 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On 2018-05-06 at 10:25 AM, --END--Rikutatis said:

I think Contagion before was pretty powerful and worth using (maybe borderline OP on a few frames/combos), but not OP enough as to be game breaking like some other stuff in the past (or back when it was interacting with Iron Vault). The problem is that after the nerf it became pretty much useless garbage like Exodia Force is as well. For a piece of gear that costs so many resources to make and comes from a time gated event, its current performance is pretty disappointing to put it mildly.

I have other stuff to use, so whatever, but I think DE has yet to strike the right balance when it comes to exodias. Epidemic and Hunt are pretty useful in niche situations, I wish all others had this kind of utility at least. 

Speaking of Exodia Force, can we please get a buff on that? Instead of perpetuating a misleading patchnote to the community when stated that the Exodia is affected by modded damage, but in its context only means that it is only affected by the modifications developed from the player’s combo multiplier?

[Azamagon]

So, there are three formulas I can see in play here:

1. (Damage + 100) * 4
2. Damage * (100 + 4)
3. Damage + (100 * 4)

If my understanding is correct, it used to be formula #2, which is an absurdly strong and reasonable-to-nerf/fix formula.

However, is it now using formula #1 (the reasonable / intended / more similar to non-Dagger Zaws formula) or formula #3 (the absolutely bonkers weak formula)?

EDIT: Now, if they could only remove that self-damage...

Edited May 7, 2018 by Azamagon

[Kimimoto]

8 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

DE has implemented several systems that a few people clamored for, presumably for something to do once they "arrived". Once implemented they languished, since more than a few people didn't see any point in these systems or found them something less than fun to indulge in. 

Yeah, because they're scared to actually give incentive for playing well. They languished, because there's no point to any of it. There's no rewards. There's no reason to go past C or stay in the mission when you can just reset. Past that there's no point to even playing the game and progressing, because nothing requires you to forma/riven/arcane/giveaS#&$.

If there's no tangible reward nobody's going to bother, it's not the actual game-mode that's the problem.

[DelBoyJamie]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

So, there are three formulas I can see in play here:

1. (Damage + 100) * 4
2. Damage * (100 + 4)
3. Damage + (100 * 4)

If my understanding is correct, it used to be formula #2, which is an absurdly strong and reasonable-to-nerf/fix formula.

However, is it now using formula #1 (the reasonable / intended / more similar to non-Dagger Zaws formula) or formula #3 (the absolutely bonkers weak formula)?

EDIT: Now, if they could only remove that self-damage...

Funny enough its almost impossible to down yourself now these are so weak, seriously. Before they where deadly and would down you if you were anywhere near the explosion range, now direct hits over and over on Khora cant even down her, took me 10 repeated attempts directly below me, and tbh with usual mods we use in like sentinels etc, it would recharge my shields or health before it would have chance to kill me. A obvious show these have been drastically changed with these...

[MidnightRedDeath]

On 2018-05-05 at 7:40 PM, taiiat said:

if Contagion is dealing poo Damage, that means your Melee Weapon would do even more poo Damage. since it uses your Mods and base Stats.
have you considered some different Mods? you can probably figure out what Mods affect it (most of them do) and make a Loadout that will make it deal a lot more Damage... you can probably figure that out.
unless - there's more Bugs you have to report, where you aren't loading up your Melee Weapon with Mods that the Arcane doesn't take, and end up with much lower Damage than should be expected.

this is obvious and that is not the problem. the problem is that the bug that they "fixed" was the only thing making the arcane viable. Why do you think the price completely dropped after the bug "fix", it went from 100P to 30P over night. If it was really just a load out problem then it wouldn't have effected the entire community. The arcane does no damage  because they nerfed it to the dirt, its practically useless now. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by MidnightRedDeath
misspelled a word

[BL4CKN0ISE]

I don't understand why it doesn't just do the same damage as your melee weapons + the 30 meter bonus damage. There's no way that would be OP. Contagion+CL wasn't even OP. Exodia Force needs to be buffed too. I just don't understand why DE is so scared to make Exodia Arcanes stronger. There are so many weapons and abilities in the game that are so much stronger and don't require anything close to the same investment. 

 

[taiiat]

47 minutes ago, MidnightRedDeath said:

this is obvious and that is not the problem. the problem is that the bug that they "fixed" was the only thing making the arcane viable. Why do you think the price completely dropped after the bug "fix", it went from 100P to 30P over night. If it was really just a load out problem then it wouldn't have effected the entire community. The arcane does no damage  because they nerfed it to the dirt, its practically useless now. 

no, things lose popularity once people hear something gets nerfed at all - regardless of the outcome. they may regain popularity if not much changes, but there's always a major dip.
for a short while after Peacemaker got adjusted for the first time, Mesa usage also dropped off the bottom of the chart. but it came back up since it deals more Damage now than previously(so was buffed rather than nerfed). >.>

the expected Damage per Grenade of Contagion is useful, but since it doesn't break anything it isn't hype popular - and only hype popular things are expensive.
but, others are suspicious of further Bugs, that cause the expected Damage to not happen most of the time.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

On 2018-05-02 at 3:09 PM, uxx0 said:

This is a fully ranked Exodia Contagion hitting the Heavy Gunners head. It would be nice if it dealt a little bit more damage. While you're at it buff the other Exodia Arcanes as well. They're really meh at the moment.

EDIT: Since some people probably don't bother reading patch notes or any other posts in this thread:

This is with armor stripped, as you can barely see.

I bought exodia contagion for 800 plat and it was a waste.Tried it a few times and never used it again. 800 plat wasted. Cant even resell the set for 500p.

[uxx0]

On 2018-05-07 at 4:16 AM, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

yes they are not the same, but do note that damage + 100 * 4 is actually less than (damage + 100) * 4

How is it less if the damage multiplier is 40000% instead of 400%?

[uxx0]

Forums let me double post, plz delete this.

Edited May 8, 2018 by uxx0

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, uxx0 said:

How is it less if the damage multiplier is 40000% instead of 400%?

You're reading math wrong

damage + 100 * 4  = Damage + 400

Which is significanly lower than (damage + 100) * 4, because in that formula it means that mean both the base damage AND the flat 100 damage are being multiplied by 4

If a weapon deals, say 50 base damage, first formula results in 450 damage
The second formula results in 600 damage.

Now, add in some elemental modding and what not, so weapon damage is now as much as 1000

First formula = 1000 + 400. 1400 only.
Second formula = (1000 + 100) * 4 = 1100 * 4 = 4400

Quite a massive difference.

What you're thinking of, is a third formula, namely: Damage * (100 + 4). Here the signs are switched around. And it's a very incorrect formula, no matter how you look at it. And it's exactly this incorrect formula which Exodia Contagion USED to have for CL-daggers.

 

[MidnightRedDeath]

23 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

I don't understand why it doesn't just do the same damage as your melee weapons + the 30 meter bonus damage. There's no way that would be OP. Contagion+CL wasn't even OP. Exodia Force needs to be buffed too. I just don't understand why DE is so scared to make Exodia Arcanes stronger. There are so many weapons and abilities in the game that are so much stronger and don't require anything close to the same investment. 

 

Agreed, the amount of time and resources to get a set of this is way more time consuming then getting any of the primed warframes / weapons. 

[genericsaucepan]

I am extremely peeved by the nerf of Exodia Contagion. Only because of the Wukong exploits.

Exodia Contagion is a nightmare to obtain and is only available for a limited time, that is unless you decide to give up as much as 900 plat to buy it...

I personally wasn't able to grind my own and was forced to purchase it or wait 6 months till the next event. I spent a total of 1000 plat getting the perfect dagger Zaw only for DE to nerf it to oblivion.

It can be OP in lower levels acting like a small tactical nuke, but did not scale well at all and therefore had balance as it was almost imposilbe to obtain a maxed one.

So, please fix this or compensate for my now wasted platinum.

#MAKEEXODIACONTAGIONGREATAGAIN

[Nez-Kal]

#Don'tUseHashTagsAssociatedWithHateAndElitismIfYouWantYourArgumentTakenSeriously

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

@genericsaucepan

are you talking about the interaction between covert lethality and exodia contagion?

Edited May 9, 2018 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel
had to add the @ now that the threads have been merged

[Airwolfen]

Not going to happen. End of story.

It had extremely broken interactions that needed to be dealt with in one strike.

Next to that, the use of platinum was your own choice and the zaws and exodias are perfectly fit for farming,

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

3 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

are you talking about the interaction between covert lethality and exodia contagion?

Yes before the 100 damage bonus mulitpled damage instead of just adding 100 damage like intended.

[genericsaucepan]

8 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

#Don'tUseHashTagsAssociatedWithHateAndElitismIfYouWantYourArgumentTakenSeriously

A bit hypocritical don't you think...

[genericsaucepan]

1 minute ago, Airwolfen said:

Not going to happen. End of story.

It had extremely broken interactions that needed to be dealt with in one strike.

Next to that, the use of platinum was your own choice and the zaws and exodias are perfectly fit for farming,

Why don'y we complain about the whole Riven situation then? Now that's broken.

 

[genericsaucepan]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Yes before the 100 damage bonus mulitpled damage instead of just adding 100 damage like intended.

It's a bit more than that. They have made Exodia Contagion completely useless. It cant even mage to scratch lvl 20s.

 

[Nez-Kal]

Just now, genericsaucepan said:

A bit hypocritical don't you think...

.............No, actually. X'D

I mean.....please make sense next time? Hypocritical how? Because of all my constant hashtags postings associated with hate and elitism? The ones that don't exist?

Please learn to use the phrase "Hypocrite" correctly next time, and save us all the embarrassment. =w="

[aligatorno]

Never invest in exploits, never. It's 100% your own fault and you shouldn't expect DE to pander to it. 

[Airwolfen]

9 minutes ago, genericsaucepan said:

Why don'y we complain about the whole Riven situation then? Now that's broken.

 

I dont see any riven adding such an amount of power that it alone can make something of low damage suddenly oneshot an Eidolon. (as just one of the broken interactions)

It was broken, It rightfully got removed. 

And it was to be expected.